It’s really bad at the kids’ mom’s house

[livednlearned]

I was thinking about the timing of all this. My son's psychiatrist used to say he was trained to believe that there are few coincidences.

Meaning, maybe SD18 needed to tell her safe parents what was happening with the not-safe parents so she could go on her trip and be a young adult.

SD16's behaviors suggest the sunlight on her situation was a net positive.

If stepdad and mom were unified, maybe they would double down on alienation behaviors but there is a point where it's hard to argue with a reality that the kids experience and affirm.

My step kids have a similar dynamic. Big alienation stuff they mostly shrug off at this point because they have enough sense of self to judge for themselves. It's the more subtle alienation that pains me. Their parents have been divorced long enough they can see who is safe, consistent, sanitary, thoughtful. But BPD mom sets up loyalty binds that have a hint of alienation without being full-blown. We planned a trip for all the kids and their partners to gather this summer and BPD mom planned an elective surgery the day before the trip. Coincidence or not, she makes sure the kids pay attention to her when they're with us.

Maybe a bit of that goes on with SD16. It seems like it would be easy for BPD mom to point out why it's better/easier/faster/smarter to stay at her house. She might not say outright that you and H are murderous unicorns because that card no longer plays, so she tries a different one that achieves a similar result.

[GaGrl]

And I 1000% agree that SD18 had her reasons so as to be "free" to leave. Bulls-eye.

[kells76]

Went to SD16's extracurricular on Saturday. I do recognize that I've been on high alert, scanning for any clue or sign that might give me a hint of what to expect.

H and I got there first, then Mom and Stepdad showed up, plus a guy with Mom I'd never seen before -- a huge burly guy. He didn't seem to say anything or interact with anyone that much. Stepdad jumped right into volunteering, making friends with the refs/coaches, laughing really loudly, asking if anyone needed anything, taking long videos of SD16, etc. It felt performative. Both Mom and Stepdad took time to play with/hang out with B11 in front of H and I. Later, Mom's "friend" (girlfriend? person who went with Mom to SD16's school play) showed up, and apparently did not know Burly Guy.

SD16 did great, so that was fun to watch. She's really good at what she does. Her coach said she might be good enough to take the team to nationals. Super proud of her 

SD16 didn't ignore us or pretend we weren't there. She said Hi during halftime to both groups (us and Mom), and was fine with coming back with us after the event (no protest behavior or "I'm just too tired, can I go back to Mom's). We even had to swing by Mom's place later to get some of SD16' stuff, and again, she didn't try any "well I'm here already, and I kind of decided I just want to stay here" moves.

Even though we missed a chunk of our weekend with her (4pm Fri to ~1pm Sat she was with Mom), maybe she is trying the best she can? And it does seem like when she misses time with us, it is for social/peer interaction, vs "I just want to be with Mom". We're supposed to be together this Friday but she wants to do an out of town thing, so we won't see her at all. But it's with a peer aged friend, not with Mom.

I have no idea who the burly guy is and it's bugging me, likely because there is a history of weird stuff happening out of nowhere and catching me off-guard. I want to know what the deal is so I'm not blindsided. H and I didn't ask SD16 who the guy was and she didn't offer the information (which is appropriate).

A little part of me is now wondering if he's a parenting supervisor? Like if Stepdad ended up agreeing to a safety plan with CPS involving supervision? I have no idea. He left the event with Mom, not Stepdad. It's all really weird.

I need to see if I'm up for calling the hotline and asking for an update on the report.

[Turkish]

Burly Guy... weird, unless mom's pulling a deal like her husband?

[kells76]

H saw more of the body language than I did, and he thinks the guy is Mom's new boyfriend. So now I'm more worried -- what if she brings him in the house? (A), he's a strange adult man, and (b), what if it riles up Stepdad even more?

I know there isn't anything I can do about it -- but I worry for the kids if there is a new adult male around.

[Notwendy]

H saw more of the body language than I did, and he thinks the guy is Mom's new boyfriend. So now I'm more worried -- what if she brings him in the house? (A), he's a strange adult man, and (b), what if it riles up Stepdad even more?

I know there isn't anything I can do about it -- but I worry for the kids if there is a new adult male around.

I do too. Not that I would accuse all men, but bringing a new male in the house with 2 teen girls -- I'd want to know more about that situation and who is going to be there with the girls.

[zachira]

You know that mom and stepdad have poor judgment as to what is appropriate to do around children/teenagers so of course is it concerning whom they choose to associate with.

[Pook075]

H saw more of the body language than I did, and he thinks the guy is Mom's new boyfriend. So now I'm more worried -- what if she brings him in the house? (A), he's a strange adult man, and (b), what if it riles up Stepdad even more?

I know there isn't anything I can do about it -- but I worry for the kids if there is a new adult male around.

But mom is still together with step-dad...at least for appearances?  That's bizarre, why would step-dad be there and act so dad-like if she was with another guy?

And if mom is doing that while going through the home inspections, the reported violence, the potential custody stuff...wow.  It can't be a boyfriend, can it?

[livednlearned]

I know there isn't anything I can do about it -- but I worry for the kids if there is a new adult male around.

Like you mentioned earlier, what about checking on the report status? Maybe there is a way to add new information. 

Do the kids describe mom and stepdad as polyamorous? I'm guessing they don't talk about much but I mean ... how confusing to not know who is together and how. 

SD16's behaviors towards you and H remind me of my stepkids at their events. They move between both sets of parents without fear of retribution from mom. But if and when mom reels them in it's a doozy and the kids will look traumatized.

Do you think it would fly to (casually) ask SD16 about burly guy?

I seem to inhabit the role of info seeking in our blended dynamic. Things H can't ask (to avoid putting the kids in the middle) don't seem to apply to me in the same way. Is it like that for you kells76?

I can ask the kids different things specific to our individual relationships and they consider those conversations safe and/or neutral. The vibe is more casual drive-by curiosity and the responses are what you would expect, not super deep. But sometimes H/my radars pick up a situation that we know could impact the kids and the extra info can go a long way.

[kells76]

And I 1000% agree that SD18 had her reasons so as to be "free" to leave. Bulls-eye.

I was thinking about the timing of all this. My son's psychiatrist used to say he was trained to believe that there are few coincidences.

Meaning, maybe SD18 needed to tell her safe parents what was happening with the not-safe parents so she could go on her trip and be a young adult.

SD16's behaviors suggest the sunlight on her situation was a net positive.

SD18 has had her phone off for most of the trip (she did call last week and sounded happy, which was good). I hope that at some level, that means she feels free not to manage things from afar.

If stepdad and mom were unified, maybe they would double down on alienation behaviors but there is a point where it's hard to argue with a reality that the kids experience and affirm.

H and I talked with our MC last night and he is concerned about Stepdad's behavior -- wondering if it is breaking with reality / on the border of psychosis (the rages in the car followed by tearful apologies).

I'm worried too that both Mom and Stepdad might be functioning so poorly. Yes, it means they aren't able to team up to overtly alienate, but I'm starting to get concerned that we're at the top of a downward slope and things are speeding up? I don't know that for sure though.

[kells76]

You know that mom and stepdad have poor judgment as to what is appropriate to do around children/teenagers so of course is it concerning whom they choose to associate with.

That's it in a nutshell. Why either of them would suddenly exercise good judgment in the middle of a high-stress situation... that's on me for thinking that.

Burly Guy... weird, unless mom's pulling a deal like her husband?

But mom is still together with step-dad...at least for appearances?  That's bizarre, why would step-dad be there and act so dad-like if she was with another guy?

And if mom is doing that while going through the home inspections, the reported violence, the potential custody stuff...wow.  It can't be a boyfriend, can it?

Not sure if I mentioned this earlier. The kids were pretty open (both to H and I, and on the CPS call) about the fact that things started getting bad when Stepdad started pursuing his girlfriend (apparently she was Mom's best friend at the time) and trying to convince Mom that the three of them could do a polyamory thing. All Stepdad had to do was to convince Mom that Mom should date her best friend, and voila, it would work. The kids said Mom maybe tried, but was not interested in dating Girlfriend. So Stepdad's image of himself as omnipotent leader ("I have what it takes to convince everyone around me to do XYZ, and if they agree to do XYZ, then I get to do what I want and also look like a great guy") was damaged.

I worry that both of them are so detached from reality and so wrapped up in desperately trying to meet emotional/image needs (Mom -- not to be abandoned, Stepdad -- to preserve his image of The Dad Who Doesn't Leave The Family, Unlike Others) that they are doing bizarre and unsafe (for the kids) things to meet those needs.

[kells76]

Like you mentioned earlier, what about checking on the report status? Maybe there is a way to add new information. 

I called and checked on the report. The main hotline just said what I already knew, which was that it got "assigned" to a local branch. They gave me the local branch number. I haven't called that one yet.

The main hotline did take my concerns about there being a new adult male around. They said that if it were a new report, it might not rise to the level of actionable, but because there is an existing report, it is good information to add. I was kind of freaked out that they would call up Mom and say "So by the way, do you have a boyfriend", so I tried to make it clear to them that if they contacted her with that kind of question, she might know that (because H and I only saw this guy for the first time at SD16's event) H and I were involved in additional reporting. They seemed to get it but we'll see how it shakes out. At least, I guess, now that the cat's out of the bag that I made the first report, I could plead total ignorance about anything else: "I have no idea what you mean, they're the ones investigating, maybe they decided to ask more questions".

I also tried to be super clear that we do not know if he lives in or goes to the home, that I did not see him do or say anything while interacting with the kids that was at all concerning (he really did not interact with the kids at all), and that it wasn't clear to me that he was a romantic interest (though my H thought he might be).

Do you think it would fly to (casually) ask SD16 about burly guy?

I seem to inhabit the role of info seeking in our blended dynamic. Things H can't ask (to avoid putting the kids in the middle) don't seem to apply to me in the same way. Is it like that for you kells76?

I can ask the kids different things specific to our individual relationships and they consider those conversations safe and/or neutral. The vibe is more casual drive-by curiosity and the responses are what you would expect, not super deep. But sometimes H/my radars pick up a situation that we know could impact the kids and the extra info can go a long way.

Maybe... I think it'd have to be a really light touch. She may be sensitive to info-seeking right now and/or may have a sense of "don't say anything else". We'll see. We're together tomorrow and then not for ~1.5 weeks. She has talked with me in the past about school friends and dynamics, but I don't think she's ever come out and said anything to me about Stepdad's girlfriend, and she knows I know about that. SD16 I think will also kind of breezily lie about intense stuff if she doesn't want to bring it up, so I don't want to push her into that corner.

[Notwendy]

But mom is still together with step-dad...at least for appearances?  That's bizarre, why would step-dad be there and act so dad-like if she was with another guy?

And if mom is doing that while going through the home inspections, the reported violence, the potential custody stuff...wow.  It can't be a boyfriend, can it?

I think they have an "open" relationship and SD has a girlfriend so, he'd have to act OK with the mother having a BF. Even if he's not OK with it, he'd have to appear OK with it since he has a GF apparently.

[livednlearned]

H and I talked with our MC last night and he is concerned about Stepdad's behavior -- wondering if it is breaking with reality / on the border of psychosis

That went through my mind too.

I didn't really understand psychosis until my therapist explained it, and the parenting coordinator assigned to our case brought it up too. They both saw signs of psychosis in n/BPDx. I didn't realize how much "hiding in plain sight" can go with psychosis. n/BPDx went to work, cooked, drove, showed up in a suit to court. But his words were bizarre, like he wasn't  fully clocking all the facts and had a poor grasp of the context and certainly no sense of consequences. It was terrifying because he's the father of my child but it was also extraordinarily vulnerable at the same time. I kind of think that vulnernability is in part what made him feel so dangerous. n/BPDx seemed to sense that people were responding in strange ways to him but he couldn't place why.

n/BPDx's worst psychotic episode happened the night that led to him losing custody of S22, who was 11 at the time.

It's concerning that stepdad, like n/BPDx, has a substance abuse problem.

SD26's psychotic episodes were not dangerous to herself or others. My T thought those episodes were actually important because they got her real help, putting her in the care of psychiatrists versus a therapist BPD mom picked who refused to talk to H.

[kells76]

It's concerning that stepdad, like n/BPDx, has a substance abuse problem.

Just to get on the same page, I'm not sure about that -- I haven't asked the kids. He certainly does have a problem with giving the kids alcohol. I don't know if he himself has an alcohol abuse issue or not. I know Mom has gotten drunk in front of the kids at home, and they also know she has smoked pot (legal in our state), but I haven't heard the kids volunteer anything like "Stepdad drank and then drove" or "I saw him drinking before he raged".

[DreamGirl]

Oof. I'm so sorry that you are going through this.

I've been in your shoes and it's so tough. I'm impressed that you recognize the Karpman Drama Triangle and it's possibilities. It's really hard to stay off it when there are drama-driven individuals involved.

What is the outcome here that you are hoping for from the call to CPS?

It's a loaded question, I know.

[kells76]

Hey... Good to hear from you again 

I think where I've landed is that the cleanliness stuff wasn't really the core issue for me -- it mattered, of course, because it mattered to the kids, and then that was the first thing my T said was reportable. The biggest issue for me was learning about Stepdad's behavior.

My ideal goal for the CPS call would be that Stepdad gets some kind of safety plan, so that all 3 kids are safe when he is around them. There's a sense in which I don't care if Moms house gets infested again as long as there are real checks on his behavior.

I can't remember if I mentioned here; I filled out a MOSAIC ASSESSMENT about the situation, and while the quality rating wasn't quite high enough, it did return a score of 6/10 with the suggestion that without intervention, situations similar to this typically escalate.

I guess in a way I did achieve a goal, of getting professional eyes on the situation, and someone who would approach Stepdad and dialogue with him about his behavior. I would be fine if they told me "hey, you overreacted, we have no concerns". But we had no way to get through to him -- he wouldn't listen to us, he and Mom are in conflict, nothing that SD18 said seemed to stop him, and there was nobody left in our small community who had his ear.

My goal for the outcome is that the kids are safe at both houses and that Stepdad does not escalate his violence.

If I had to do it over again, I might do some parts differently, but overall I think the call had to be made.

[kells76]

Oof. I'm so sorry that you are going through this.

I've been in your shoes and it's so tough. I'm impressed that you recognize the Karpman Drama Triangle and it's possibilities. It's really hard to stay off it when there are drama-driven individuals involved.

Forgot to ask -- did you ever have to make a CPS call about your stepkids' situation?