Update and struggles

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I’d be skeptical that he had wine in that bottle. Beer and wine are easier to smell on the breath than clear spirits, such as vodka. Also for an adult male, particularly one who has a habit of abusing alcohol, it takes a fair amount of alcohol to become intoxicated. The handout that comes with the California DMV driver’s license renewal indicates that a typical male could consume two beers or the equivalent of wine, and still remain within legal limits for driving.

[Cat Familiar]

I’d be skeptical that he had wine in that bottle. Beer and wine are easier to smell on the breath than clear spirits, such as vodka. Also for an adult male, particularly one who has a habit of abusing alcohol, it takes a fair amount of alcohol to become intoxicated. The handout that comes with the California DMV driver’s license renewal indicates that a typical male could consume two beers or the equivalent of wine, and still remain within legal limits for driving.

[Ozzie101]

In the past, it’s always been wine. That’s his drink of choice. I don’t know if his tolerance is low, he’s drinking a lot, or if it just doesn’t take much to tip him over when he’s upset.

We didn’t have a terrible night, but it wasn’t a great one. He was definitely moody and negative, trying to pick a fight. He came home fine, but disappeared upstairs to wrap up work and was in a mood when he came back.

It’s all frustrating, not fully knowing what’s happening and not knowing day-to-day what the evening will be like.

[Ozzie101]

Another difficult evening. This morning, I had an appointment with one of my doctors. This particular doctor is in my home town and while it’s an hour drive each way, I’ve seen her for 20 years or more. I like her and trust her. H tends to make jokes about my needing to go down there, but it seems like, underneath, it really bothers him. My sisters all see the same doctor, so he has said before it’s more evidence of us being co-dependent. (My sisters and I aren’t the only ones who drive down to see this doctor, by the way. She’s really awesome.)

Anyway, she was helpful regarding my health situation. After that, we ran by my parents’ house to drop something off. My dad (a doctor) asked a few questions about what she said and next steps.
He then said: We’re concerned about it. But we know y’all are doing what you need to do, so we’re not butting in.

We got home, did our work. H was upstairs a long time and smelled like wine. He also acted oddly, giving our little dog a treat he normally would never give him (he’s on a diet).

On our walk, he asked how I felt about things. I said pretty good and we’ll have to see what my PCP says when I see him in a couple of weeks. He then brought up my dad saying they’re concerned.
“That’s making ne feel upset and worked up. Do they not think I care, too? Do they think I’m not pushing you to get to the bottom of it?”
“Well, I think they do know that. He said he knew we were doing what we need to do.”

That was correcting him and he didn’t take it well. Things never spun out of control, but he was very negative with me the rest of the night, upset that I didn’t agree that my parents think we’re not working on it. I tried to validate, saying if I hadn’t heard the second part of what my dad said (H said he didn’t hear it), I might have felt the same way. It didn’t do any good.

He kept insisting we need to figure out what set him off so he can tell his T, but I was honest in telling him I have no clue. I told him what I said right before. He was convinced I said something that set him off. All I said was I feel ok about things and will be curious what my PCP says.

I’m sure I didn’t validate enough. But validating without validating the invalid is still something I’m working on. I also felt like early in the disagreement he kept making it about him — about people not realizing he cares and is helping me. Honestly, having to deal with his flareups and negativity is not helping. At all.

[Cat Familiar]

I agree that he personalized your dad’s remark and made it about him.

So your health situation is what is “concerning.”
Your dad expresses his concern as well as his trust that you are handling it.
He takes that comment as an implication that he isn’t doing enough.
You reasserted that your dad thought you were on the right track.
Your husband gets upset that you don’t agree that your parents are judging both of you for not “working on it.”

So it’s your health issue and now he is neither sympathetic nor supportive of you, feeling like your dad is judging him for not doing enough about your health problem.

Can you see how self referential and narcissistic this response is?

I’d have difficulty finding something to validate other than he’s upset about your health.

[Ozzie101]

I absolutely can see it. When he’s in a more normal mood, he’s not like that. He’s thoughtful and helpful. But when he feels scared or insecure, it goes out the window.

My family has been an ongoing struggle. He feels out of place and insecure with them. Also, he automatically ascribes motives to them that are in line with his parents or his former in-laws. My parents are very different from them. It’s natural, in some ways, for people to have a knee-jerk reaction. I get it. But it’s frustrating.

It apparently doesn’t help that I get along very well with my MIL. She’s pretty open that she sees me as her daughter. H doesn’t have the same bond with my parents. But the situations are different — much larger family, H is closed off, etc. I wish things were easier, but I don’t have any sort of dream in my mind. I just want peace.

[livednlearned]

“That’s making ne feel upset and worked up. Do they not think I care, too? Do they think I’m not pushing you to get to the bottom of it?”

He's triangulating here too.

He's the victim. They're the perpetrators. You're the rescuer.

“Well, I think they do know that. He said he knew we were doing what we need to do.”

You didn't rescue H so you're not following the script.

That was correcting him and he didn’t take it well. Things never spun out of control, but he was very negative with me the rest of the night, upset that I didn’t agree that my parents think we’re not working on it. I tried to validate, saying if I hadn’t heard the second part of what my dad said (H said he didn’t hear it), I might have felt the same way. It didn’t do any good.

He doesn't know how to self-soothe so he uses wine and you.

He kept insisting we need to figure out what set him off so he can tell his T, but I was honest in telling him I have no clue. I told him what I said right before. He was convinced I said something that set him off. All I said was I feel ok about things and will be curious what my PCP says.

I would find it very tricky to hear this. Because on one hand he is trying to understand. If you are an optimistic person, this could hook you into hope for change. But if he doesn't understand that he is generating the dynamic himself then those must be very delicate sessions, maybe even becoming part of a drama triangle (you, the T, and him).

I’m sure I didn’t validate enough. But validating without validating the invalid is still something I’m working on. I also felt like early in the disagreement he kept making it about him — about people not realizing he cares and is helping me. Honestly, having to deal with his flareups and negativity is not helping. At all.

It sounds like you did a really good job ozzie. You were able to keep things in the orange zone.

Validating someone is more about creating a validating environment. Sometimes the conditions are such that things might go back to or stay in the yellow zone but for the most part it's about learning how to not be in the red zone all the time.

Part of being in these relationships is radical acceptance that you will toggle back and forth between being parent and partner. Validation may help you manage that dynamic with less conflict.

[Ozzie101]

Thank you both. It helps a lot to get some support and assurance.

Livednlearned, he is very fond of triangulation. Sometimes, he seems to be maneuvering me to victim and casting himself as rescuer. The fact that I don’t play along definitely frustrates him.

There has been progress. We veer into the red zone far less often. I just need to continue to work on my own boundaries, reactions and validation. It is exhausting, though, being vigilant.