How to say goodbye

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Since late January / early February of this year I have been communicating with a man I met online, whom I now suspect to have BPD or some other "Cluster B" attributes.

I'll try my best to summarize this. He became quite smitten with me very early on, sending long emails. It's been roughly 80 emails we've sent to one another back and forth since we first established contact on the dating site. He lives in Russia and with the current events going on, was afraid to disclose key details about himself to me such as his full name and employer, and did not want to give out his postal address due to "security reasons." I suppose the secrecy was warranted, but it made me a bit worried that he was a scammer and that this was part of his ruse.

The emails he's sent (Microsoft Word docs attached to the emails) have been long, anywhere from 4-8 pages, and his romantic overtures from the very beginning were grand, lofty, even a bit obsessive. He seemed a bit clingy from the start, but I thought it was maybe just his way of trying to establish serious interest (and serious it was). As communication continued, I started to trust him more and open up to him a bit. However, it was a turn-off that he couldn't come to visit me in the U.S. (citing his inability to get a tourist visa as there's no consular section right now for Russian citizens to get said visa) - rather, he kept insisting I come to him. He bristled when I told him that, if I were to come, I'd likely be bringing along a family member. He was also hesitant to meet in a third country due to safety concerns because Russian citizens are being targeted in other countries they can travel to, allegedly. When I would confide in him regarding frustrations and stressors in life, he'd play the role of advisor... there was a slight age difference as he's 44 and I'm 32, but I felt he was turning bossy and critical in his messages. Like he was trying to be the voice of experience and that I needed to listen to him and do what he said.

Last month, I was unfortunately sexually assaulted. Because it occurred at the hands of an individual I was on a date with, my "friend" got mad and claimed he was a victim and that I'd cheated. When I told him the details, he did express some sympathy and compassion towards me, but as it had occurred on a date with someone who wasn't him, he still framed it as me cheating. I brought up the fact that we had not discussed exclusivity, nor had we met in person yet to establish anything official, and he responded that it should have been implied by our regular communication that I was his girlfriend. In subsequent emails, he just couldn't help but allude to, or mention the assault, and it was clear that he was trying to guilt-trip me.

He sent me a few videos and pictures of him, including childhood photos, which verified to me that he probably wasn't a con artist or catfish, but the fact remained that this man 1) expected an exclusive relationship with a woman (me) he'd met only online, and 2) was demanding that I come to him (alone, if he had his way), basically do all the work to make this relationship a reality, while he 3) felt entitled to just sit back and dictate his opinions to me on how I should live / judge me (he was trying to get me on an all-fruit diet, urged me not to pursue therapy, told me specific exercises I should start doing and to lose weight, et cetera).

This man also had a relationship history where he'd had two long-term girlfriends who left because they suspected him of infidelity (he said this was untrue), and a few others, none leading to marriage and at his age - again, 44 - I found that interesting that he'd never been married, in a country that is known for being rather traditional and where most marriages, or at least first marriages, occur in one's 20s. He also has a job in IT where he isn't paid a whole lot and admitted his salary is not enough to support a family, though he claims to want to be married and have a family. But he thinks that in the U.S., things like money and well-paying jobs grow on trees, and that I should have my own place where he could visit me (actually, he thinks I should buy land) and seems to have this fantasy that we would split our time as a couple between Russia and the U.S. and live in this off-grid home with an orchard and grow our own food, live off the land, etc. But he doesn't quite seem to grasp that all of that takes money upfront. In short, he isn't very practical.

And with all the over-the-top declarations of romance punctuated by the criticisms and judgment, I just don't think I can do this anymore. As it is, after the incident last month I actually left the area for a number of days in shock and having debilitating panic attacks in the aftermath, then came back and promptly resigned from my job, moved back in with my parents, and started therapy (as you can imagine, from what the therapist does know about this guy from what I've told her, she feels he's manipulative). After his latest email, when I realized that things just aren't going to change, I realized I needed to make a decision, but I don't want to just ghost him.

How to say goodbye?

[chezpeppermint]

Since late January / early February of this year I have been communicating with a man I met online, whom I now suspect to have BPD or some other "Cluster B" attributes.

I'll try my best to summarize this. He became quite smitten with me very early on, sending long emails. It's been roughly 80 emails we've sent to one another back and forth since we first established contact on the dating site. He lives in Russia and with the current events going on, was afraid to disclose key details about himself to me such as his full name and employer, and did not want to give out his postal address due to "security reasons." I suppose the secrecy was warranted, but it made me a bit worried that he was a scammer and that this was part of his ruse.

The emails he's sent (Microsoft Word docs attached to the emails) have been long, anywhere from 4-8 pages, and his romantic overtures from the very beginning were grand, lofty, even a bit obsessive. He seemed a bit clingy from the start, but I thought it was maybe just his way of trying to establish serious interest (and serious it was). As communication continued, I started to trust him more and open up to him a bit. However, it was a turn-off that he couldn't come to visit me in the U.S. (citing his inability to get a tourist visa as there's no consular section right now for Russian citizens to get said visa) - rather, he kept insisting I come to him. He bristled when I told him that, if I were to come, I'd likely be bringing along a family member. He was also hesitant to meet in a third country due to safety concerns because Russian citizens are being targeted in other countries they can travel to, allegedly. When I would confide in him regarding frustrations and stressors in life, he'd play the role of advisor... there was a slight age difference as he's 44 and I'm 32, but I felt he was turning bossy and critical in his messages. Like he was trying to be the voice of experience and that I needed to listen to him and do what he said.

Last month, I was unfortunately sexually assaulted. Because it occurred at the hands of an individual I was on a date with, my "friend" got mad and claimed he was a victim and that I'd cheated. When I told him the details, he did express some sympathy and compassion towards me, but as it had occurred on a date with someone who wasn't him, he still framed it as me cheating. I brought up the fact that we had not discussed exclusivity, nor had we met in person yet to establish anything official, and he responded that it should have been implied by our regular communication that I was his girlfriend. In subsequent emails, he just couldn't help but allude to, or mention the assault, and it was clear that he was trying to guilt-trip me.

He sent me a few videos and pictures of him, including childhood photos, which verified to me that he probably wasn't a con artist or catfish, but the fact remained that this man 1) expected an exclusive relationship with a woman (me) he'd met only online, and 2) was demanding that I come to him (alone, if he had his way), basically do all the work to make this relationship a reality, while he 3) felt entitled to just sit back and dictate his opinions to me on how I should live / judge me (he was trying to get me on an all-fruit diet, urged me not to pursue therapy, told me specific exercises I should start doing and to lose weight, et cetera).

This man also had a relationship history where he'd had two long-term girlfriends who left because they suspected him of infidelity (he said this was untrue), and a few others, none leading to marriage and at his age - again, 44 - I found that interesting that he'd never been married, in a country that is known for being rather traditional and where most marriages, or at least first marriages, occur in one's 20s. He also has a job in IT where he isn't paid a whole lot and admitted his salary is not enough to support a family, though he claims to want to be married and have a family. But he thinks that in the U.S., things like money and well-paying jobs grow on trees, and that I should have my own place where he could visit me (actually, he thinks I should buy land) and seems to have this fantasy that we would split our time as a couple between Russia and the U.S. and live in this off-grid home with an orchard and grow our own food, live off the land, etc. But he doesn't quite seem to grasp that all of that takes money upfront. In short, he isn't very practical.

And with all the over-the-top declarations of romance punctuated by the criticisms and judgment, I just don't think I can do this anymore. As it is, after the incident last month I actually left the area for a number of days in shock and having debilitating panic attacks in the aftermath, then came back and promptly resigned from my job, moved back in with my parents, and started therapy (as you can imagine, from what the therapist does know about this guy from what I've told her, she feels he's manipulative). After his latest email, when I realized that things just aren't going to change, I realized I needed to make a decision, but I don't want to just ghost him.

How to say goodbye?

[EyesUp]

Hello and welcome.

First, the expectations and entitlements you describe are not healthy - they may or may not be attributed to BPD - but your reasons for discontinuing the situationship are valid.

That leaves two concerns: courtesy and safety.  How you respond at this point depends on how much the person in question knows about you.   You mentioned that he didn't share his address or employer.  Did you disclose similar details to him?

Emails with Word doc attachments caught my attention.  Were you concerned about this?  Do you use any security / filtering / virus protection software?   Even from within certain countries with privacy concerns, many people know how to access services that enable them to email "normally" with less personal risk.  I only raise this because if he is, in fact, a scammer - this could be a way to deliver a hack to your device.

Whether he's a scammer or not, we may not know - but here's what I'd suggest:

Create a new email address with a secure service like Proton Mail, change all passwords immediately and update accounts to the new email, and backup everything on the devices you've used to communicate to an external harddrive or to a secure cloud backup service.

The challenge here is that if he's installed a keystroke tracker, you'll need to do this from a device that he doesn't have access to...

If he knows your full identity (name, address, phone, work, etc.), consider sending a polite message along the lines of "I enjoyed getting to know you, I wish you the best in the future..." - this should address the courtesy aspect.

Then immediately do a full factory reset and then restore the devices that may be infected...

I'd also consider paying a 3rd party service to remove whatever personal information may be searchable online, e.g., deleteme.com.

Sorry if this seems a bit alarmist, but it sounds like you're not 100% sure who you're dealing with - BPD or not.  The individual in question certainly demonstrate a lot of controlling behaviors - which could align with BPD, or with someone who is deliberately trying to establish a scam via control...

There are, unfortunately, a lot of stories of scammers in online dating. Going forward, consider using a "burner" email for these services, as well as a Google Voice number - at least for initial contact until trust is well established.

Does this make sense?

Take care!

[ForeverDad]

Even if this man is, from a "least bad" standpoint, who he claims he is, it's clear your spidey sense has been alerted.  Something's not right.  Well, a lot of somethings. At the least his expectations that you do all the work (risky travel, living in your country in scenarios you can't afford, you haven't even met in person or by videos, etc) is extremely concerning.

EyesUp had some excellent technical guidelines, he's right, you have no idea whether your electronic items or accounts have been compromised, so best to be cautiously proactive.

One technical aspect I will add is that MS Word docs may have edit history attached.  I don't know how to "look under the hood" to see indications of nefarious activity.  For all you know he's stringing along many women trying to see which will take the bait.  The documents' edit history may reveal that?

Whether he is truly displaying acting-out ( = more harmful to others than to himself) behaviors or not, there are enough troubling signs.  At the least, the text/photo relationship is impractical.

Our typical suggestions when ending a relationship is to do so with as few words as possible, leaving it on a light but final tone.  You can't let back and forth protests start.  That meshes with how EyesUp advised... simple but polite "it's not working, have a nice life" and then cut all potential ties.

I know, that's not how we like to end things, we'd prefer long explanations and mutually agreeable closure but that's inadvisable.  Cut the cord, so to speak.  In summary, Gift yourself Closure, Let Go and Move On.

[chezpeppermint]

I appreciate the replies here regarding safety, but virus protection and detection nowadays is much more sophisticated. If he was sending me viruses, my computer would automatically alert me.

In our correspondence we would attach archived (accessible via a password we had) Word documents to our emails to one another.

I could look at the edit history to see if there's anything weird in the documents, but I'm pretty sure my devices would detect that.

I'm tech-savvy enough to know how to delete ransomware files (have done it before), and am careful when it comes to opening or downloading files from the internet. Again, in today's world, it's rare to get a virus. Most computers will automatically present a pop-up saying that a virus was detected and literally block the download. Also, he's never done anything like ask for money.

I'm dealing with a man who gets irritable when I don't contact him within 24 hours, says he loses energy when he doesn't hear from me right away and again, the emails are long and tailored to me and my life circumstances - I doubt he has the time and energy to do what he's doing with me, with other women online. Could be wrong, but it seems like it would be rather exhausting, especially since he mentions to me that he works full-time and has limited free time in his day (although I have to trust that this is in fact the case and that he's not some guy unemployed in his mother's basement trying to hustle women).

He demonstrates magical thinking and believes that I appeared as an answer to a wish he made at the beginning of the year and that we are destined to be together. It's really sad how obsessed he is.

TL;DR: I appreciate people's concerns that I might be subjected to a virus or have my devices hacked, but this is actually doubtful in this particular situation; my main concern is that he would be extremely devastated if I just ghosted him.

[Cat Familiar]

my main concern is that he would be extremely devastated if I just ghosted him.

*he doesn’t want to tell you his name or contact info
*you’ve noticed him being obsessive
*he wants you to travel to see him, but doesn’t want you to bring along a companion
*you felt he was bossy and critical
*he was jealous and felt you “cheated” when you were sexually assaulted
*he tries to make you feel guilty over the assault
*you haven’t met in person
*he claims you are his girlfriend
*he dictates how you should live
*previous girlfriends have suspected him of infidelity
*he doesn’t make enough money to support a family
*he’s not practical with regard to money
*he gets irritable when he doesn’t immediately hear from you
*you realize things are not going to change with this guy

Is there anything on this list that isn’t a  ?

Do you feel it’s your responsibility to manage his emotions?

[chezpeppermint]

Is there anything on this list that isn’t a  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post)?

Do you feel it’s your responsibility to manage his emotions?

It pains me that after more than five months, all I have to go on is his first name, a couple email addresses, and some photos of himself that he sent me along with a few videos, one of which he is heard talking. This is one of the things I kept bringing up to him (needing more info to verify his identity) but he fears that if he discloses too much to a U.S. citizen he could get in hot water with his company and the government as well.

There are so many red flags here and I guess my purpose in making this post and joining this forum is to gauge whether others here believe this is a person with BPD and what strategy is best in a situation like this one - completely ghosting (sounds unfair and immature)? A kindly-worded final letter?

I just don't want this guy to fall apart...

[Cat Familiar]

What’s stopping you from writing a kindly-worded final letter?

[ForeverDad]

I just don't want this guy to fall apart...

The reality is that he is an adult, just as you are an adult.  Relationships can end, especially problematic remote ones.  Life happens.

His life is not your responsibility.

One of my frequent themes here that I remind newer ones here is that our typically excellent qualities - that we care and we try to be fair - can actually sabotage us when dealing with these sort of acting-out dysfunctional relationships.

It's nice that you care.  But... the reality is you can't live his life for him.

[CravingPeace]

Sorry but a slightly colder stance. You havent met him or seen him, he sounds abusive. Who cares whethet he has BPD or not. Its the behaviur. Say goodbye you are sorry you dont feel right about it the end.

There are plenty of people on this forum dealing with big legal battles after domestic violence and suffering years of emotional, vwrbal, financial and physcial abuse, desperately fighting for the rights juat to see their children while not losing every dollar they have ever worked for.

This isnt to belittle what you are feeling. But to help you get context. You will be ok.

I wish to god my situation was so simple about someone i had never met or seen.

If you feel uncomfortable say goodbye and move on.

[chezpeppermint]

One of my frequent themes here that I remind newer ones here is that our typically excellent qualities - that we care and we try to be fair - can actually sabotage us when dealing with these sort of acting-out dysfunctional relationships.

It's nice that you care.  But... the reality is you can't live his life for him.

You're right, of course. It's just that having read up on BPD, I have empathy for these people and am trying to do the right thing here with minimal hurt. Perhaps I shouldn't have even joined this forum, but I just felt the need to gain further insight and hear from others what strategies worked for them.

Trust me, I'm only too relieved that I never wound up meeting him, married him or had kids with him. I feel like he's never going to have the life he wants because he's just too rigid for any woman to handle long-term, too controlling and has a constant need to sow seeds of discord and nag.

Knowing from the literature and all I've read and seen about how devastated BPD people can get when they sense abandonment, and how they have the capacity to self-injure or even become suicidal in response to abandonment, I was trying to be as compassionate and mature as possible in this situation, to let him down gently; hence why I tried to solicit opinions here.

But what I'm sensing from all the responses here is that he's ultimately going to do what he's going to do, and it isn't on me to necessarily mitigate this or lessen the blow. And maybe the only thing he's "owed" at this point, if anything, is one last letter from me, and he has to just recognize that he is responsible for his own emotions, and he must logically understand how his actions drove me away and take ownership, without trying to heap further blame on me or become attacking / defensive. Admittedly, that's my next big fear, besides the possibility of him threatening self-injury or suicide; that he's going to try to harass me and try different manipulative tactics to try to get me back. I guess I have to talk to my therapist about what to do if this happens.

And it does suck, because I was emotionally invested. It seemed like we were in alignment in many ways and moving in the same direction. It was only when it became apparent that he was just a delusional, over-emotional person and these selfish/controlling tendencies came to light that I had to grimly face the facts; up until then, it seemed like a blossoming relationship with a lot of potential. He broke my heart. But at the same time, it obviously could've been a lot worse. Breaking up is hard to do - doubly so if the other person could have BPD.

[Joyful Noise]

"Colder Yet"

Excuse me but what therapist worth their salt simply says "He sounds manipulative" when presented with how obsessively you have engaged with this stranger?   He is a piece of cake:  a scammer.  However, your obsession here with how to say goodbye points to a much more concerning part.. Who cares what his possible diagnoses is, where are you?  And are you with the right therapist?

[chezpeppermint]

Wow, I'm really regretting posting here now.

Everyone seems to be obsessed with the idea of this person being a scammer when that isn't the issue I wanted input on here. This guy showed pretty much zero indications of being a scammer and every indication that he had BPD.

I did not go into great detail with the therapist about every little behavior this man exhibited.

At any rate, I did send one final letter to him today. It's over.

[ForeverDad]

Apologies if some of our responses were offsetting.  That was never our intention!  Please, it's okay to set aside whatever you feel didn't apply and focus on the variety of thoughts you found helpful.

The last thing we want is for you to regret coming here.  We came here and found a safe and positive - and varied - group and that's what we hope you take away.

Keep in touch and let us know how it all turns out.

[livednlearned]

chezpeppermint, it says a lot about you that you want to break this off with as minimal hurt as possible to someone not treating you well. You've been through a horrific experience in your personal life and had to make major life changes and this is happening on top of everything -- it's a lot. Yet you take the time to think about how to leave without harming him unnecessarily. He was not empathetic to you at a really hard time and yet you have empathy for him. You have a big heart.

Something I noticed in my own experience is that my ex preferred negative engagement to no engagement. People who have BPD or BPD traits do not have a very differentiated sense of self. It's kind of like an abandonment of self. To not be engaged with someone can apparently feel like annihilation. If he cannot have a relationship with you, he may try to stay engaged simply because it's preferable to feeling nothing, or rejection (if he's narcissistic), or abandonment (if he has more borderline traits).

I sometimes think my ex preferred the fighting toward the end of relationship to the hope or promise or illusion of intimacy. It was safer emotionally to fight. Intimacy was much harder for him to fathom. I'm not actually sure he could even experience emotional intimacy.

I guess what I would watch for at this point is more how you feel and respond to him... you have good instincts and you're taking care of yourself and prioritizing your well-being a difficult time. That seems precious and important to embrace regardless of what he does.

[Joyful Noise]

No apologies for voicing concerns about personal safety in what sounds like an obsessive (and controlling, as stated) situation (regardless of whatever the diagnoses may be). 

Detaching, with grace (or not) can keep one safe.
Sometimes we need a view from another window to see things more fully which, is why you came here.

One of my favorite "prayers" is, "Let me see things clearly". 
This hard-won "skill' snaps me out of the fog every time.

I don't always like what I quickly come to understand but, it does help me make much better decisions.

~Detaching with Grace.