Trying something new but scared it will fail

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hello forum,

I recently had what might be considered a break through with my partner.  We had "broken up" like so many times before and she had started trying to get back together with me.  I said at the time that I would love to be I couldn't because of all the conflict we continued to experience as a couple.  During some conversations with her over text she mentioned that she has anxiety and depression.  I decided to just sort of blurt out "what if there's more than just anxiety and depression?"  She came over to my house and asked me to explain.  I told her about BPD and how I had been learning about it.  I also said that I thought maybe she was expressing traits of BPD.

This is counter to every recommendation I've ever heard on the forum.  I decided to tell her for a few reasons.  Probably the biggest reason was that I was trying to give her an opportunity to improve her relationship with her son by getting some therapy.  But also told her because I felt that either she might consider what I was saying or she'd just be so upset that I wouldn't hear from her again.

To my surprise she was actually interested in hearing about BPD.  I told her it was basically something that people with intense emotions can develop if they'd experienced trauma and grew up in an emotionally invalidating environment.  She admits that she has problems with abandonment fears and that she has extreme emotions.

Since telling her about my concerns she's talked with her professional counselor (to help deal with stresses of her work) about what I had said.  Her therapist replied that she didn't think that BPD actually existed and that it's more about a trauma response.  My partner also talked to a couple of friends who are therapists who likewise said that they didn't think it was a thing.  That made my heart sink.

We are planning on going to a couples therapist.  I'm working to find a few options at the moment.  Through all of this I'm wondering if I am just setting myself up again for a big fail.  I'm also wondering if I need to have some clear goals in mind for this work and maybe have a plan for breaking off the relationship if things go south again.  It seems like I might have to completely break contact with her for a long time if I decide that I can't do this.

[usagi]

Hello forum,

I recently had what might be considered a break through with my partner.  We had "broken up" like so many times before and she had started trying to get back together with me.  I said at the time that I would love to be I couldn't because of all the conflict we continued to experience as a couple.  During some conversations with her over text she mentioned that she has anxiety and depression.  I decided to just sort of blurt out "what if there's more than just anxiety and depression?"  She came over to my house and asked me to explain.  I told her about BPD and how I had been learning about it.  I also said that I thought maybe she was expressing traits of BPD.

This is counter to every recommendation I've ever heard on the forum.  I decided to tell her for a few reasons.  Probably the biggest reason was that I was trying to give her an opportunity to improve her relationship with her son by getting some therapy.  But also told her because I felt that either she might consider what I was saying or she'd just be so upset that I wouldn't hear from her again.

To my surprise she was actually interested in hearing about BPD.  I told her it was basically something that people with intense emotions can develop if they'd experienced trauma and grew up in an emotionally invalidating environment.  She admits that she has problems with abandonment fears and that she has extreme emotions.

Since telling her about my concerns she's talked with her professional counselor (to help deal with stresses of her work) about what I had said.  Her therapist replied that she didn't think that BPD actually existed and that it's more about a trauma response.  My partner also talked to a couple of friends who are therapists who likewise said that they didn't think it was a thing.  That made my heart sink.

We are planning on going to a couples therapist.  I'm working to find a few options at the moment.  Through all of this I'm wondering if I am just setting myself up again for a big fail.  I'm also wondering if I need to have some clear goals in mind for this work and maybe have a plan for breaking off the relationship if things go south again.  It seems like I might have to completely break contact with her for a long time if I decide that I can't do this.

[kells76]

Like the Bettering board says, not much is intuitive about BPD relationships (quite the understatement). While an approach can be generally recommended, each situation is unique, so doing something unintuitive is sometimes the best, or only, option in front of you.

We are planning on going to a couples therapist.  I'm working to find a few options at the moment.

Did the joint (I'm assuming both of you OK'ed it) decision to go to couples T happen during/after the "it might be BPD discussion?

During some conversations with her over text she mentioned that she has anxiety and depression.  I decided to just sort of blurt out "what if there's more than just anxiety and depression?"  She came over to my house and asked me to explain.  I told her about BPD and how I had been learning about it.  I also said that I thought maybe she was expressing traits of BPD.

This is counter to every recommendation I've ever heard on the forum.  I decided to tell her for a few reasons.  Probably the biggest reason was that I was trying to give her an opportunity to improve her relationship with her son by getting some therapy.  But also told her because I felt that either she might consider what I was saying or she'd just be so upset that I wouldn't hear from her again.

To my surprise she was actually interested in hearing about BPD.  I told her it was basically something that people with intense emotions can develop if they'd experienced trauma and grew up in an emotionally invalidating environment.  She admits that she has problems with abandonment fears and that she has extreme emotions.

Did she seem to agree that she experienced emotional invalidation in her FOO?

I wonder if she was more able to hear you because there is distance between you two right now.

Since telling her about my concerns she's talked with her professional counselor (to help deal with stresses of her work) about what I had said.  Her therapist replied that she didn't think that BPD actually existed and that it's more about a trauma response.  My partner also talked to a couple of friends who are therapists who likewise said that they didn't think it was a thing.  That made my heart sink.

Did her professional counselor or therapist friends tell you that directly? Or did she tell you that that's what they said?

Are you feeling worried that "you got it all wrong" because she said that those people said she didn't have BPD?

[ForeverDad]

Since telling her about my concerns she's talked with her professional counselor (to help deal with stresses of her work) about what I had said.  Her therapist replied that she didn't think that BPD actually existed and that it's more about a trauma response.  My partner also talked to a couple of friends who are therapists who likewise said that they didn't think it was a thing.  That made my heart sink.

Borderline Personality Disorder is part of the DSM V and has been there in prior periodic revisions.  There was talk that it might be renamed to something like Emotional Dysregulation PD but that didn't happen.  So it's possible they have different views.  Or... they really don't want to bluntly discuss it and apply a diagnostic name specifically to her.

I was married and my divorce court along with all the associated professionals studiously avoided any diagnostic terms.  They limited themselves to guiding the marriage to an end and structuring our parenting order.  She never did get a diagnosis so far as I know.  That's been the experience with many other members here too.

I wonder if she was more able to hear you because there is distance between you two right now.

BPD is most evident in close relationships, the closer it is, the more impactful it becomes.

Did her professional counselor or therapist friends tell you that directly? Or did she tell you that that's what they said?

I too was wondering whether she accurately described what the professionals told her.  They might have said something a little different, perhaps trying to avoid overreactions, but her perceptions recalled it differently?

It would be wise to proceed cautiously and not quickly jump back in.  You already know how the past roller coaster cycles turned out.

[chezpeppermint]

"Her therapist replied that she didn't think that BPD actually existed"

"My partner also talked to a couple of friends who are therapists who likewise said that they didn't think it was a thing"

These people, if indeed licensed therapists and not self-styled gurus / dangerous quacks, are being seriously detrimental to your girlfriend's progress and mental health by telling her these things. It's terribly concerning when a person who's trained in the field of mental health denies that a certain mental condition exists.

I think the couples therapy could be a positive step. My biggest takeaway from your post is that your girlfriend actually seems receptive to the idea/possibility of BPD. This is huge in my book. It shows she might have insight into her condition or at least be open to talking with someone who can show her how her unhelpful behaviors stem from core beliefs that are sabotaging her happiness and wellbeing. And how this set of beliefs and accompanying behaviors have a name, and that this can actually be overcome. She seems open to change, and despite these people in her life (who I think may have ulterior motives) trying to convince her otherwise, I think she can change. It will take a lot of hard work on her part, though, and a therapist who actually recognizes the existence of personality disorders and can definitively say that this is what could be going on here. I know once some people get a mental health "label" (for want of a better term), it can help them greatly, to demystify their thoughts and behaviors, and to make them less scary and mysterious to the person suffering - more able to be digested and worked through.

I'm no expert, just a layperson who's had experiences with pwBPD, but hope I helped.

[Tangled mangled]

From my experience… the pwbpd will undermine any attempt to get explanations/solutions/guidance/ anything positive.

From what you have described everyone else ‘disagrees ‘with your opinion that she may have bpd. Are you 100% certain that her friends/ therapists / whoever she’s consulted actually said what she’s shared with you?

What I’m ‘reading’ from your account of events seems like gaslighting- twisted reality/ second guessing your efforts.
I see couples counselling may likely fail- you’re not dealing with an individual who will take responsibility for their actions and poor behaviours.
My ex husband too reached a point where he owned up to his behaviour but his ‘ownership ‘of his poor behaviour was meant to achieve a goal- to prevent me from leaving.

Members here have shared how their pwbpd ‘change’ towards the end of the relationship.

[usagi]

Thank you kells as always,

Did the joint (I'm assuming both of you OK'ed it) decision to go to couples T happen during/after the "it might be BPD discussion?

It actually started before.  She'd mentioned that she would be willing to go to counseling just after we moved to our new location.  However that was followed by "only after you fix your problems."  After I brought up BPD that changed to let's do it now.

Did she seem to agree that she experienced emotional invalidation in her FOO?

Very much.  She agrees that she experiences fears of abandonment and strong emotions.  She also agrees that while growing up her mom was not able to validate her emotions.  From the sound of it the conversations weren't unlike mine with her.  Her and her mom would get into arguments about boys and staying out late but for my partner it was all about how she wasn't allowed to express her emotions.

Did her professional counselor or therapist friends tell you that directly? Or did she tell you that that's what they said?

I'm actually not sure what her professional therapist said.  All I have is what my partner said, which was that the therapist said that BPD doesn't really exist and it's only some sort of trauma response.  My partner has two friends who are therapists.  She's said that they both told her that she doesn't display traits of BPD.  It's frustrating to hear that because she thinks her friends know her better than I do but they haven't seen the behaviors I have.

Are you feeling worried that "you got it all wrong" because she said that those people said she didn't have BPD?

Not really.  Her behavior is so extreme at times.  Right now she's in a more regulated state but when things fall apart for her it's very evident that she's experiencing symptoms of BPD.

I feel that BPD is probably a spectrum like a lot of other things.  Her behavior is very extreme at times but she's never resorted to violence or suicide threats.  She doesn't use drugs and doesn't abuse alcohol.  She isn't promiscuous and is generally very high functioning.  That's what makes this much more difficult.  No one looking from the outside would say that she's got an issue because they don't see what I see.

[usagi]

Thanks ForeverDad,

I too was wondering whether she accurately described what the professionals told her.  They might have said something a little different, perhaps trying to avoid overreactions, but her perceptions recalled it differently?

I think it is possible that they tempered their responses.  I think what is more likely is that her description of what has been happening between the two of us isn't very accurate.

She actually read the first three chapters of "Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder" and said she doesn't relate to anything in there.  I'm not surprised but it is disappointing.

It would be wise to proceed cautiously and not quickly jump back in.  You already know how the past roller coaster cycles turned out.

I'm trying for sure.  I was initially cautiously optimistic but am a little less so now.  We've been having some conversations about what has happened in the past.  She asked me to describe some of my experiences that I identified as being like BPD.  I tried talking some about intense anger and splitting.  Regarding anger she said that she was actually just very frustrated with me.  She said she gets angry when people do things deliberately to harm her or her friends.  She completely denied that she splits.  What has given me some hope is that she's talked about how she has some intense fear of abandonment.  Seems she's more likely to talk about things from a trauma response perspective.

[usagi]

Thanks Tangles mangled,

From what you have described everyone else ‘disagrees ‘with your opinion that she may have bpd. Are you 100% certain that her friends/ therapists / whoever she’s consulted actually said what she’s shared with you?

I have no idea.  I suspect that she's not telling the whole story.  I have caught her in lies before and I wouldn't be surprised if either she's bending the truth or just making things up.

My ex husband too reached a point where he owned up to his behaviour but his ‘ownership ‘of his poor behaviour was meant to achieve a goal- to prevent me from leaving.

I suspect I might be in that mode.  She was splitting pretty hard until very recently when she came back and played pickleball with me.  It was clear that she didn't want me to leave her.

When she came back I said that I needed to be with someone who will also work on the relationship and not put everything on me.  I also said I can't be with someone who wants to break up every time things get difficult.  These are my boundaries and I did my best to communicate them clearly to her.  My job is to stick to what I decided.

I am very interested to see if she'll admit to a therapist she has struggled with abandonment.  I am hoping that when she recounts our experiences she will describe them as me "abandoning" her.  I think that would be a good place to start to unpack things and have a professional dig into her feelings a bit.

[usagi]

Does anyone have any recommendations for qualities a therapist should have to help a couple where one expresses BPD traits?  I've read about Gestalt and of course there the Gottman approach.  Has anyone had any particular success with any particular approach?

[kells76]

I don't have specific experience with this, but generally I would think that it needs to be someone who will trustbuild with your ex/partner over time and get her buy-in. This would not be a "four weeks and we're doing great now" thing; ideally it would be longer term, so, someone willing to spend a significant amount of time laying trust-based groundwork.

You might also reflect on personality types that your partner typically clashes with or meshes well with. I don't do well with people who talk a lot, talk a lot about themselves, or seem to talk over me. I did meet once with a T who talked about herself a lot, so I didn't go back. Some members here have had success meeting with Ph.D. level psychologists, just in terms of expertise, though I think that was for them vs for the partner with BPD.

How do you think it would go to ask her what kind/personality of T she thinks she would like?

[usagi]

Thanks kells,

I think that makes sense.  I know she's expressed that she wouldn't do well with a therapist that was interested in "moving your energy" or other sort of woo-woo approaches.  Someone with some practical experience and isn't interested in placing blame - even the appearance of that.

There are some good therapists who have lots of experience with BPD but they are a little far from where we're living.  I need to make this as convenient as possible.

I just wasn't sure if folks on the forum had better luck with some particular marriage counseling approach.  Most popular is Gottman.