Terrible disaster

[Gerda]

Well I've just had what was probably the worst two weeks in my life. And it's not going to get any easier in the next couple of weeks.

I messed things up bigtime. My husband had decided he wanted us to go on this family vacation 6/30-7/3. As you know from my previous posts, I was secretly working on divorcing him and was planning to move out with D4 into an apartment on 7/25 and then immediately serve him with papers.

Well, the Thursday before we were supposed to leave, after I had made hotel reservations and everything, he called me on his lunch break and ranted for over an hour and a half about how if I want this relationship to work, I need to fake it 'til I make it, and just act more affectionate towards him until I really feel affectionate. And I need to put the past behind me and forget about all the fights we'd had before and just move on and be happy from now on. You know, the usual "relationship advice" he gives me. He eventually got himself so worked up that he said that's it, he's had enough of me and this relationship is over, and then hung up on me.

Something like five minutes later my attorney called to talk about our plan for serving him with papers. She had been working on the divorce petition and posting various version of it to the client portal for us to review. But I was all shaken up and admitted to her that I just had a big fight with H. She asked me to review what she had on the client portal so she could go ahead and file it, and seemed to be in a bit of a rush. This was the first time I had talked to the actual lawyer herself. When I did the consultation it was some kind of assistant type person.

She asked me to review the petition and make sure everything "looked correct" so she could "go ahead and file it." So I did and everything looked (factually) correct, and I told her we were about to go on vacation the next week, so I wouldn't be able to talk to her until we got back, so "go ahead and file it."

I didn't know what "filing it" meant. I thought she was going to file it away until I got back from vacation so we could work on it some more. I thought I had told her I didn't want her to file it until after I moved out on 7/25.

That Saturday, the night before we were supposed to leave for our trip, right after dinner, I was giving D4 a bath. The door rang and H answered. He came into the bathroom. "What is this?" Showed it to me. He had just been served with the divorce papers!

I immediately panicked. "She wasn't supposed to do that yet!"

"What do you mean yet?"

What followed was probably the most terrifying night of my life. My first reaction was that's it. I've been caught, the jig is up. I admitted that I had decided to divorce him and rattled off some the many reasons why. I admitted to him that I wasn't planning to actually do it until I moved into an apartment at the end of the month. I sent off a quick text to my best friend letting her know what had happened, and then dropped my phone somewhere and lost it in the panic. D4 must have been in the bath for two hours while my husband freaked out, saying this totally blindsided him, he couldn't believe I had done this to him, he thought our relationship was going so much better, did our wedding vows mean nothing, etc.

I finally managed to get D4 to bed. As she slipped off to sleep, she said, "I can't wait until tomorrow!" I almost cried.

My husband kept me up the whole rest of the night shifting from raging about how I could do such a horrible thing to him, getting insulted about what was in the actual divorce petition (my attorney included a temporary restraining order, a request for a psych eval, and so on, and he was demanding to know what horrible lies I had tell her to make her think that was necessary), and then finally begging me not to divorce him after all, to give him another chance, saying that divorcing him will ruin his life and the life of our daughter.

I finally started to give in and say OK, yes, I won't divorce him after all, I will give him another chance. I realized that was about the only way I could get him to calm down. Also, all this time I couldn't find my phone. I kept asking him to call my phone so it would ring and I could find it, and he refused. He knows that I'm pretty much helpless without my phone and decided to use this as a power play to keep me talking to him.

Then at 11 pm, the doorbell rang. I answered, and a police officer was there asking if I was OK. Turns out my friend who I texted right before I lost my phone got scared when I quit answering her texts, so she called a welfare check on me. I told the officer I was OK, so he left. Unfortunately, that got my husband into a rage again just as I was finally getting him to calm down. He demanded to know who called the cops on him and what horrible lies did I tell them to make them think that was necessary.

Finally at about 5 am I had managed to convince him that I would undo the whole divorce and we'd make up. He had Googled about how there's some form you can fill out to undo a divorce petition, and said I must have done this impulsively because I was mad at him, so as soon as possible I was to contact my attorney, explain that we are going to reconcile, and get her to fill out this form to undo everything. Then we had "make up sex," and I finally got to get about an hour or two of sleep before D4 woke up excited and ready to go on our trip to the beach.

And we went on the trip to the beach. I hope D4 had fun.

H kept bugging me the whole time to send messages to my lawyer through the client portal to ask her to undo the divorce. I send messages to her explaining what had happened, and that I didn't mean for her to serve him with papers now, because I wasn't ready. At first she said that I just need to say whatever to him keep the peace until I can move out, but H kept insisting that he wanted her to undo the divorce, and do it right away. My lawyer said she can do something called a "nonsuit without prejudice" and then I can just re-file again later, so I told her to do that.

So for the whole rest of the trip and after we got back, H asked me multiple times per day, and sometimes even waking me up in the middle of the night, whether my lawyer had sent in the nonsuit, whether the judged had signed it yet, what's taking so long, etc. And he keeps asking me multiple times per day if I really want to reconcile, and I'm really on board with undoing the divorce, and I'm not going to destroy our family, etc.

The lawyer sent the nonsuit to the judge, and send me a pdf copy of it. I sent the pdf to H, but that wasn't good enough for him. He wants to see a signed copy from the judge. My lawyer just said the judge will sign it when he signs it. In the divorce petition it says H has 20 days after the filing to make a response, or else the divorce will go through without him, so every day that went by he gets more and more anxious that the judge will not sign the nonsuit in time.

So finally H went to another lawyer this past week, and they said it could take the judge 10-12 WEEKS to sign the nonsuit! We were under the impression that it would only take a few days. Now, my lawyer says the judge has no reason to not sign the nonsuit, but if H files a counter-petition, then he won't sign it. And I'm confused because my lawyer, and my husband, and my husband's lawyer are all telling me different things now. My husband thinks that this restraining order means I can kick him out of the house right now if I wanted to, for example. My lawyer says that's not true, but my husband says my lawyer is lying to me. Also, my lawyer didn't tell me that the nonsuit would take weeks to sign. I was under the impression it would take a few days to sign, then I could move out to my apartment in three weeks, and then we could re-file.

So this coming week, maybe on Monday, my husband says he's going to go to his lawyer and file a counter-petition, because he "just can't let this stand" and he's going to "fight this thing" because he thinks this restraining order kicks him out of the house (among other horrible things that I can't tell are real or his paranoia). I think I want to find a new lawyer because this whole traumatic thing has caused me to lose trust in my lawyer. I mean, I feel stupid now for not knowing what she meant by "go ahead and file it," but she also should have sat me down and explained everything to me in great detail because I'm a biologist not a lawyer! I've never even talked to this woman in person yet or know what she looks like.

So I've got an appointment with another lawyer tomorrow at 11 am. I hope I can get to it without H finding out. I need to find out what kind of legal limbo I'm in right now with this nonsuit sitting in some judge's office somewhere and what's the procedure for going ahead and divorcing him would be now. And I need to find out how to change lawyers to someone who doesn't just go and do things without make sure I'm absolutely sure that I want her to do what she's about to do.

And H has been bothering me multiple times per day about "reconciling" and not divorcing me after all and really laying on the guilt and tugging at my heartstrings (when he's not angry and ranting again about how horrible I am for doing this to him), and making me promise that I cancelled my apartment lease and I won't divorce him after all.

I haven't actually cancelled my apartment lease. Nor have I cancelled the moving crew I had scheduled for a couple of days after my lease starts. But now I'm under much more scrutiny from H. He calls me or texts me multiple times from work and freaks out if I don't answer immediately. The other day he called me on his lunch break and ranted for over 2 hours and 40 minutes. We've been having sex about every other night now because he wants reassurance that I still love him.

Since he found out when my lease had started (because I accidentally blurted it out in a panic on that awful night), he scheduled a marriage counseling session for us that day. I asked the apartment manager if I can have a friend pick up my key for me.

This is exactly why I wanted to move out in secret, and then serve him with papers AFTER that. And now I've having to spend weeks lying to him about wanting to reconcile and I'm definitely not divorcing him. So that means he'll be EVEN MADDER when I do move out.

I just hope I can move out with all this extra surveillance I'm under now. I'm not sure how convincing I'm being reassuring him that I'm not divorcing him. Despite how much my husband accuses me of being a liar, I'm actually very bad at lying. I always tell him the truth first, but if it's something he doesn't like, he steamrolls and harasses and coerces me until I tell him what he wants to hear.

I thought for a moment that the only way this could have gone worse is if he had actually gotten violent the night he got served with papers, like I had feared he would (to his "credit", he didn't), but sometimes I think this is actually worse. If he had hit me, I could have called the police right then, and D and I would be out of here already. Instead here I am having to endure weeks of psychological torment.

[jaded7]

Well I've just had what was probably the worst two weeks in my life. And it's not going to get any easier in the next couple of weeks.

I messed things up bigtime. My husband had decided he wanted us to go on this family vacation 6/30-7/3. As you know from my previous posts, I was secretly working on divorcing him and was planning to move out with D4 into an apartment on 7/25 and then immediately serve him with papers.

Well, the Thursday before we were supposed to leave, after I had made hotel reservations and everything, he called me on his lunch break and ranted for over an hour and a half about how if I want this relationship to work, I need to fake it 'til I make it, and just act more affectionate towards him until I really feel affectionate. And I need to put the past behind me and forget about all the fights we'd had before and just move on and be happy from now on. You know, the usual "relationship advice" he gives me. He eventually got himself so worked up that he said that's it, he's had enough of me and this relationship is over, and then hung up on me.

Something like five minutes later my attorney called to talk about our plan for serving him with papers. She had been working on the divorce petition and posting various version of it to the client portal for us to review. But I was all shaken up and admitted to her that I just had a big fight with H. She asked me to review what she had on the client portal so she could go ahead and file it, and seemed to be in a bit of a rush. This was the first time I had talked to the actual lawyer herself. When I did the consultation it was some kind of assistant type person.

She asked me to review the petition and make sure everything "looked correct" so she could "go ahead and file it." So I did and everything looked (factually) correct, and I told her we were about to go on vacation the next week, so I wouldn't be able to talk to her until we got back, so "go ahead and file it."

I didn't know what "filing it" meant. I thought she was going to file it away until I got back from vacation so we could work on it some more. I thought I had told her I didn't want her to file it until after I moved out on 7/25.

That Saturday, the night before we were supposed to leave for our trip, right after dinner, I was giving D4 a bath. The door rang and H answered. He came into the bathroom. "What is this?" Showed it to me. He had just been served with the divorce papers!

I immediately panicked. "She wasn't supposed to do that yet!"

"What do you mean yet?"

What followed was probably the most terrifying night of my life. My first reaction was that's it. I've been caught, the jig is up. I admitted that I had decided to divorce him and rattled off some the many reasons why. I admitted to him that I wasn't planning to actually do it until I moved into an apartment at the end of the month. I sent off a quick text to my best friend letting her know what had happened, and then dropped my phone somewhere and lost it in the panic. D4 must have been in the bath for two hours while my husband freaked out, saying this totally blindsided him, he couldn't believe I had done this to him, he thought our relationship was going so much better, did our wedding vows mean nothing, etc.

I finally managed to get D4 to bed. As she slipped off to sleep, she said, "I can't wait until tomorrow!" I almost cried.

My husband kept me up the whole rest of the night shifting from raging about how I could do such a horrible thing to him, getting insulted about what was in the actual divorce petition (my attorney included a temporary restraining order, a request for a psych eval, and so on, and he was demanding to know what horrible lies I had tell her to make her think that was necessary), and then finally begging me not to divorce him after all, to give him another chance, saying that divorcing him will ruin his life and the life of our daughter.

I finally started to give in and say OK, yes, I won't divorce him after all, I will give him another chance. I realized that was about the only way I could get him to calm down. Also, all this time I couldn't find my phone. I kept asking him to call my phone so it would ring and I could find it, and he refused. He knows that I'm pretty much helpless without my phone and decided to use this as a power play to keep me talking to him.

Then at 11 pm, the doorbell rang. I answered, and a police officer was there asking if I was OK. Turns out my friend who I texted right before I lost my phone got scared when I quit answering her texts, so she called a welfare check on me. I told the officer I was OK, so he left. Unfortunately, that got my husband into a rage again just as I was finally getting him to calm down. He demanded to know who called the cops on him and what horrible lies did I tell them to make them think that was necessary.

Finally at about 5 am I had managed to convince him that I would undo the whole divorce and we'd make up. He had Googled about how there's some form you can fill out to undo a divorce petition, and said I must have done this impulsively because I was mad at him, so as soon as possible I was to contact my attorney, explain that we are going to reconcile, and get her to fill out this form to undo everything. Then we had "make up sex," and I finally got to get about an hour or two of sleep before D4 woke up excited and ready to go on our trip to the beach.

And we went on the trip to the beach. I hope D4 had fun.

H kept bugging me the whole time to send messages to my lawyer through the client portal to ask her to undo the divorce. I send messages to her explaining what had happened, and that I didn't mean for her to serve him with papers now, because I wasn't ready. At first she said that I just need to say whatever to him keep the peace until I can move out, but H kept insisting that he wanted her to undo the divorce, and do it right away. My lawyer said she can do something called a "nonsuit without prejudice" and then I can just re-file again later, so I told her to do that.

So for the whole rest of the trip and after we got back, H asked me multiple times per day, and sometimes even waking me up in the middle of the night, whether my lawyer had sent in the nonsuit, whether the judged had signed it yet, what's taking so long, etc. And he keeps asking me multiple times per day if I really want to reconcile, and I'm really on board with undoing the divorce, and I'm not going to destroy our family, etc.

The lawyer sent the nonsuit to the judge, and send me a pdf copy of it. I sent the pdf to H, but that wasn't good enough for him. He wants to see a signed copy from the judge. My lawyer just said the judge will sign it when he signs it. In the divorce petition it says H has 20 days after the filing to make a response, or else the divorce will go through without him, so every day that went by he gets more and more anxious that the judge will not sign the nonsuit in time.

So finally H went to another lawyer this past week, and they said it could take the judge 10-12 WEEKS to sign the nonsuit! We were under the impression that it would only take a few days. Now, my lawyer says the judge has no reason to not sign the nonsuit, but if H files a counter-petition, then he won't sign it. And I'm confused because my lawyer, and my husband, and my husband's lawyer are all telling me different things now. My husband thinks that this restraining order means I can kick him out of the house right now if I wanted to, for example. My lawyer says that's not true, but my husband says my lawyer is lying to me. Also, my lawyer didn't tell me that the nonsuit would take weeks to sign. I was under the impression it would take a few days to sign, then I could move out to my apartment in three weeks, and then we could re-file.

So this coming week, maybe on Monday, my husband says he's going to go to his lawyer and file a counter-petition, because he "just can't let this stand" and he's going to "fight this thing" because he thinks this restraining order kicks him out of the house (among other horrible things that I can't tell are real or his paranoia). I think I want to find a new lawyer because this whole traumatic thing has caused me to lose trust in my lawyer. I mean, I feel stupid now for not knowing what she meant by "go ahead and file it," but she also should have sat me down and explained everything to me in great detail because I'm a biologist not a lawyer! I've never even talked to this woman in person yet or know what she looks like.

So I've got an appointment with another lawyer tomorrow at 11 am. I hope I can get to it without H finding out. I need to find out what kind of legal limbo I'm in right now with this nonsuit sitting in some judge's office somewhere and what's the procedure for going ahead and divorcing him would be now. And I need to find out how to change lawyers to someone who doesn't just go and do things without make sure I'm absolutely sure that I want her to do what she's about to do.

And H has been bothering me multiple times per day about "reconciling" and not divorcing me after all and really laying on the guilt and tugging at my heartstrings (when he's not angry and ranting again about how horrible I am for doing this to him), and making me promise that I cancelled my apartment lease and I won't divorce him after all.

I haven't actually cancelled my apartment lease. Nor have I cancelled the moving crew I had scheduled for a couple of days after my lease starts. But now I'm under much more scrutiny from H. He calls me or texts me multiple times from work and freaks out if I don't answer immediately. The other day he called me on his lunch break and ranted for over 2 hours and 40 minutes. We've been having sex about every other night now because he wants reassurance that I still love him.

Since he found out when my lease had started (because I accidentally blurted it out in a panic on that awful night), he scheduled a marriage counseling session for us that day. I asked the apartment manager if I can have a friend pick up my key for me.

This is exactly why I wanted to move out in secret, and then serve him with papers AFTER that. And now I've having to spend weeks lying to him about wanting to reconcile and I'm definitely not divorcing him. So that means he'll be EVEN MADDER when I do move out.

I just hope I can move out with all this extra surveillance I'm under now. I'm not sure how convincing I'm being reassuring him that I'm not divorcing him. Despite how much my husband accuses me of being a liar, I'm actually very bad at lying. I always tell him the truth first, but if it's something he doesn't like, he steamrolls and harasses and coerces me until I tell him what he wants to hear.

I thought for a moment that the only way this could have gone worse is if he had actually gotten violent the night he got served with papers, like I had feared he would (to his "credit", he didn't), but sometimes I think this is actually worse. If he had hit me, I could have called the police right then, and D and I would be out of here already. Instead here I am having to endure weeks of psychological torment.

Oh Gerda, I'm glad you posted and got this off your chest. You didn't screw up, you were just confused. And it sounds like the lawyer wasn't super clear on what would happen. How could you know? This is all confusing for even the most knowledgeable person. I know someone who's gone through divorce with a BPD person two different times, and he gets really confused all the time with what was/is happening.

He's obviously sending massively mixed messages, as it seems he has always done. "We're over!!!" and then "We need to go back to how we were" and then "How could you do this to me".  It's all so disordered. You are not crazy.

I'm impressed you kept your lease and the movers scheduled. That means you are keeping your eyes on the goal here, in spite of the chaos and mixed messages. Now he's desperate and acting out. He's nearly torturing you, Gerda...keeping you up at night, keeping your phone away from you.

I know nothing about the details of doing a divorce, maybe others will know. But I see a strong person keeping the goal in mind.

[ForeverDad]

Take a few breaths. Just breathe.  As bad as you feel it is - and I don't doubt your world is in a dizzying whirl - in time you will look back on this as a test of your mettle, your strength and determination to take control back of your life.

It has become clear he is a controller.  He cannot demand love nor succeed to build love and trust by making such demands.  Yet he does not see that.  Have you read Dr Joseph M. Carver's pamphlet on "Personality Disorders: The Controllers, Abusers, Manipulators and Users in Relationships"?  Here is the link, along with other articles:

https://drjoecarver.com/miscellaneous2

You have our support.  Many of us here had setbacks in our efforts to recover our lives.  But once we got through the hard times, it really did get better.

Perhaps you and your lawyer miscommunicated.  Those frantic calls were certainly filled with havoc.  Your lawyer may have assumed your case was not as fraught with fear as you truly felt.  I suspect she now realizes this will not be a simple case.  Whether you do need to change lawyers, we can't say.  In my own divorce, I told him I wanted to query another lawyer.  He recommended a couple names.  I did one interview but decided to stick with him and eventually it worked out.

I wonder... is there a reason you can't move earlier?  The longer you're under ex's pressuring, the harder it will be as that scheduled move day gets closer and his pressure increases?

[Tangled mangled]

I’ve followed your story for a while.
I’m just here to say I m concerned for your safety.

He will get worse in the next couple of days because he knows you are not being truthful. It’s like a prey escaping from a predator, the situation in your household could erupt anytime. He will become more aggressive in his demands and you will have a 4 year old witnessing this.

Is there any chance you can reschedule your move out date to be sooner or atleast move your things into a storage?

It will cost more to do the move in two steps ie to a storage then your apartment but atleast you and your d4 will be safe and you can stay at a hotel.
Are you receiving support from a DV organisation? They would be able to advise . It’s good that your friend contacted the police. But you need to get out of there ASAP

[ForeverDad]

Also, it is OKAY for the police to be called once again and come to your aid again.  Even if he had not been physically abusive to the extent you thought he would be liable for police aid, you could and should have asked for them to intervene.  Even if you weren't sure whether they could cart away the aggressive person, they certainly could have provided temporary protection for you and aided you to safely exit with your defenseless D4.

The police would much rather to separate you from the aggressive person or aid you to exit before your situation further deteriorates than after.  Once you are apart then you can withdraw your request to cancel the divorce that was made under duress.

Is there any benefit to remain in your distressing environment?

[Tangled mangled]

In Europe an adult acting aggressively/ disturbing a household can be taken away by the police for the night because they will rather separate the parties that attend to call needing an arrest. I made a call to the police when I was trying to leave and they heard my ex shouting in the background at 10pm. That was all they needed, he slept at the station and was released in the morning. It was like a sleepover that’s what you husband could have had on that night.

You could still do thesame, once he starts getting loud even though he’s begging to cancel the divorce make the call to the police.

[kells76]

Hi Gerda, I know what you mean about "disaster". Those are the most difficult nights; I'm sorry you went through that.

Lots of moving parts going on for you. It's good advice to call the DV hotline in your situation. The reason for that is that the safest possible option can look really different based on the total situation or where you're at in the timeline of the situation.

For example, before your H knew about your plans, staying until that date was likely the safest possible option. Now some variables have changed; it happens. It may be that the safest possible option is exiting with D4 before that date... or that might not be the safest option. Talking to a neutral professional can help you get some grounded feedback on options when everyone's emotions are running high.

The DV hotline worker will be able to understand where you're coming from, what your plan had been, what changed, and what you're doing now (the verbal promises to stay/work on the relationship), and will be able to talk through how to navigate this new path forward.

Leaving quickly after the blowup isn't necessarily the best option... but it might be. Staying and placating also isn't necessarily the best option... but it might be.

It's so hard when you do the best you can and things spiral anyway. We're put in positions we didn't see coming and we do the best we can to keep the kids safe. The safest possible option can look "bad" to others but be the "least bad" option that you have available (we don't always have the options we wish we had, we have the options we actually had). After the kids' mom found out that CPS was called, apparently she and Stepdad got intensely angry at SD18, who called me for help. I hate that the best option on the table was me picking up SD18 but leaving SD16 (and their 11 year old brother) at Mom's but that was the least escalating option, and the anger/blame was directed at SD18 (my guess is that the other kids weren't seen as targets/complicit). On paper nobody would say "take one of the kids and leave the others" but there was no way to get the other two out and they weren't in physical danger. These situations suck and getting third party professional advice on them is critical, especially when our own emotions are at an 11/10 

Let us know what the hotline says. They're often local (vs a national 1-800 number) and so can have a better read on how local laws/practices/approaches might play into things.

[Gerda]

Just wanted to add and clarify a few things.

I forgot to say what happened to my phone. By the next morning while we were "making up," I finally talked him into calling my phone. Turned out it was in the trash can! I must have set it on the counter, and then accidentally knocked it in. I'm really glad that it didn't end up getting taken out with the trash!

It's hard to describe what my husband has been like since he got the papers. People have used the term "aggressive." He's not gotten into a screaming-at-the-top-of-his-lungs rage. He's only done that when I've tried to argue back at him before and started to lose my temper too. I learned a while ago not to do that with him. But he will rant on and on and on for hours when he's angry. I do my best to "gray rock," when that happens, just staying quiet and nodding, but sometimes I finally start getting worn down, especially when he starts rambling on and on into more paranoid and delusional stuff.

My point is, I'm not sure if droning on for four hours straight about how I'm trying to make him lose his house and all his possessions and make it so he never sees his daughter again is something I'd be justified in getting the police involved about.

Also, the night he got served, he would actually rant at me for a while, then read the divorce petition and/or stuff he was looking up on the internet for a while, get all angry again, and rant again. But I was so freaked out I couldn't get any sleep anyway. My lawyer thinks he's reading a lot of horrible stuff into this petition and TRO that's not really there, but when I tell H that, he thinks either I'm lying to him or my lawyer is lying to me.

Calling the DV hotline is probably a good idea, if I can ever get some privacy to do that now. Today he called in sick to work, planning to see his own lawyer, but ended up spending almost all day ranting at me again. He's in the shower right now. I hope he'll go ahead and go to work tomorrow. But while he's at work he calls me and/or texts me multiple times per day and panics if I don't answer right away.

And he thinks he's totally justified in acting this way, because I was the one sneaking around and doing this behind his back. He's compared it to cheating on him.

As for my moving out plan, I was supposed to pick up the keys on Monday, July 22, but I didn't book the movers until Thursday, July 25. He doesn't know about that second date. Now I'm going to have a friend pick up the keys for me, and am hoping that he won't call in sick or something on Thursday and I'll still be able to move out then.

The problem is, besides not knowing the exact date, he's totally figured out my plan and keeps wanting me to promise I am definitely not going to suddenly move out while he's at work and take D4 with me. So once I break that promise and he finds out I've been lying to him this whole time, I'm afraid things are going to get REALLY ugly.

[ForeverDad]

My point is, I'm not sure if droning on for four hours straight about how I'm trying to make him lose his house and all his possessions and make it so he never sees his daughter again is something I'd be justified in getting the police involved about.

Here's my motto: "Ask not, receive not; ask and pray receive."
(Read that in a thee/thou tone of voice )

I learned that when my niece didn't ask me for help years ago.  When I found out later, I asked her why she didn't ask me for help.  Silly girl, she said I might have said No.  My reply, I possibly would have said Yes.

And he thinks he's totally justified in acting this way, because I was the one sneaking around and doing this behind his back. He's compared it to cheating on him.

In today's world either spouse can divorce the other, with neither party blamed for the end of the marriage.  Family or domestic court will not force a couple to remain married.  Instead, the rules set the court, police, and other professionals - in general terms - as referees placed there to ensure the divorce does happen, of course according to the existing laws, policies and procedures.

For him to imagine otherwise is entitlement or worse.  Reality trumps entitled perceptions.

As for my moving out plan... Now I'm going to have a friend pick up the keys for me, and am hoping that he won't call in sick or something on Thursday and I'll still be able to move out then.

The problem is, besides not knowing the exact date, he's totally figured out my plan and keeps wanting me to promise I am definitely not going to suddenly move out while he's at work and take D4 with me.

Simple... (Okay not so simple, but...)  But the police are on call - let them know in advance of your plans if you can - should you need them to ensure you have a peaceful exit.  That is their job, to defuse potential incidents.  For all you know they may ask him to leave until you're finished moving.

Remember that in these situations when there may be no court orders in place, both parents technically have have "equal but undefined rights" as parents.  How to handle that?  Police do not decide.  Police will not force you to hand over your daughter to him just because he demands it.  They will defer any custody and parenting schedules to the court if there is no court order yet in place.  Their task is to address the immediate incident.  So you will need to keep physical possession of your D4 then and until the court sets an interim temp order, often weeks later.  Do not be intimidated or coerced to hand your daughter over to him.  You don't want to experience being the parent not in physical possession.

What has your lawyer advised how you allow contact during this Wild West time until you temp order is decided by the court?  Some states allow a person to file for temp custody and possession during the waiting period.  Was that included in your divorce filing?

[Tangled mangled]

Your original post described a scenario where your 4 year old was left in the bath for 2 hours because your husband’s reactions- whether it’s a rant or ‘being’ aggressive.

You seem to have found ways to minimise the impact of his behaviour on yourself and your daughter. Going from his behaviour affecting your sleep to it wasn’t that bad.

The things you were sharing about your husband to your friend caused a lot of concern when you lost your phone.
Btw your husband could have intentionally knocked your phone off into the bin - hence refusing to help you find it. He knows his behaviour is criminal/ abusive, the last thing he needs is for the police to get involved. Mine seized my phone when he attacked.

You seem to be going along with the unreasonable demands of his behaviour. Your 4yr old should be your priority.

I work in healthcare and have seen these situations take a devastating turn. Women and children have been seriously hurt and even lost their lives trying to leave.

FD and Kells76 have really great advice there

[ForeverDad]

Do not ignore the help local DV resources can provide.  They may even be able to provide a safe and secure place for you to live until your apartment is available.

In my area the unlisted DV safe place was named "House of Peace".  No, I couldn't use it since it was only for women and their children.   My ex lived there for several weeks or months.  Why?  I had recorded her threats to kill me and so she was later arrested and charged with Threat of DV.  Nothing came of it, after a few months her case was dismissed because, according to our region's prior case law, a threat was limited to having a weapon in hand.  However, her aggressive voiced threats were sufficient for me to file a police report and immediately get a temporary protection order (TPO) that included me having temp possession of my own home.  I was the one who truly had a House of Peace at last.

Repeat, you do not have to remain in your residence under duress, pressuring against your will.  There likely are other options than remaining in a battle field.  Don't be timid about reaching out for help.

One last thought for this post...
Do not tell your ex the new apartment's location.  He has no right to demand it.  Sure, it won't stay secret for long but at least you'll feel less unsafe during the early days of separation.  And if/when he surprises you at the door, don't open it, not even for him to beg anything, hug the preschooler, bring food or gifts, nothing.  If you open the door he could barge in and claim you invited him in.  Call the police if he doesn't depart the area.

[Tangled mangled]

Here’s an article from psychology today, a US site:



Coercive control embedded in an intimate partner’s behavior is critical to recognize. Unlike physical abuse that leaves a bruise, coercive control depletes one’s sense of self – many report a loss of personal identity. Knowing the behaviors and the felt impact helps to recognize coercive control.

For example, the following three tactics and their hidden injuries are among those listed on Biderman’s Chart of Coercion:

Isolation deprives the targeted partner of social support such as family and friends; in time, increasing dependency on the controller and eventually weakens the ability of the partner to resist what the controller wants. Being isolated can subject a person to harassment, humiliation, criticism, and punishments for maintaining connections with others. Additionally, the family and friends are made to feel uncomfortable when they are around. They come less or not at all. Activities outside the home can be undermined to make the partner feel. For example, they can’t trust their partner with the kids, so they stay home.

Monopolization of perception (also known as gaslighting) is when the controller defines reality that’s often distorted and self-serving for their partner, relationship, and family. Gaslighting becomes all about what the controller believes and wants. Any thoughts and feelings by the other partner that are not in compliance invite being criticized, blamed, humiliated, etc. The recipient of this behavior, in time, develops confusion, self-doubt, and a loss of trust in their perception.
Degradation is to humiliate and demean the partner to feel that their resistance is more damaging to their self-esteem than compliance. The humiliating attacks in this realm can be criticism of one’s character, body, behavior, parenting, etc. Also, degradation can be attacked in the realm of the partner’s strengths to undermine the targeted person since the controller experiences their strengths as threats to their control. Once self-esteem is lowered, the partner is more vulnerable to internalizing false accusations into self-blame.
Experiencing ongoing intimidation, humiliation or subordination is as harmful as physical abuse, with many victims reporting that the trauma from psychological abuse has a much more significant impact than physical abuse (Sheley, 2021).

Legal Protection for the Coercively Controlled

Coercive control is now being taken seriously because it can predict physical violence. It’s recognized that men who have killed their female partners often have dominated them first – sometimes without any physical violence. In fact, with 28 to 33 percent of victims, the homicide or attempted homicide has been the first episode of physical violence in the relationship. (Fontes, 2021)



With reliable research regarding coercive control in intimate relationships showing that it causes devastating harm and may predict future physical violence, domestic abuse advocates have called upon U.S. jurisdictions to address it. Other countries such as the United Kingdom, Wales, Ireland, France, Scotland, and Canada (Ontario) provide coercive control protection.

At this time, a few U.S. states have such laws:

Connecticut (June 2021) signed into law what is recognized as the most comprehensive law of protection.
California (September 2020) has a statute that allows evidence of coercive control as evidence of domestic violence in family court.
Hawaii (September 2020) prosecutes a coercive control offense.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mind-games/202112/coercive-control-becoming-criminalized?amp

[PeteWitsend]

you didn't screw up, Gerda, your attorney did.

I think you should insist on a meeting with the attorney - NOT a paralegal or assistant, and explain what happened, and that it's their fault for not explaining when your husband would be served, given your thorough plans for your exit.

I would also look into getting a new attorney, pronto.  It sounds like this one runs an assembly line, not a law office.

[Gerda]

you didn't screw up, Gerda, your attorney did.

I think you should insist on a meeting with the attorney - NOT a paralegal or assistant, and explain what happened, and that it's their fault for not explaining when your husband would be served, given your thorough plans for your exit.

I would also look into getting a new attorney, pronto.  It sounds like this one runs an assembly line, not a law office.

I'm definitely looking into getting a new attorney. No matter who's fault it is (mostly her, mostly me, or bit of both), this has made what was already going to be a horrible experience so much worse that I just don't think I could trust her anymore after this. I think I want to get a new one before this thing goes any further.

She's also one of the more expensive attorneys in town, ugh. This has already cost me thousands of dollars for something that now I'm having to undo.

At this point she actually seems to be getting annoyed with me. Her last message included something like, "I don't know how else I can explain this to you," when I asked why signing the nonsuit takes so long.

I got back in contact with my second choice of the attorneys I interviewed. I didn't end up picking her because I thought she seemed "too nice." Maybe that was a mistake. She did actually email with me and talk with me in person herself, and I felt comfortable talking with her, personality-wise. Maybe that's more important and that way I can have her talk with me and explain things to me better.

I did set up an appointment with her on Monday (yesterday), but had to cancel when my husband decided to call in sick to work (and ended up spending most of the day venting his anger at me). She rescheduled me for Friday at 10 am, but I'm getting anxious because I had moving out planned for next week, and I really want to have a good thorough talk with a lawyer before then. I'm running out of time.

I think right now I need to focus on getting moved out. I just want to make sure I don't do anything illegal or anything that will hurt my chances of getting primary custody. H has already said that if we were to get divorced, he wants it to "be fair," and that means a 50/50 custody schedule, "You get her one week, I get her the next week." But as I've explained before, it's not like we already "split" our daughter 50/50 now. I do all the real parenting *work*. I get her up in the morning, get her dressed, feed her, brush her teeth, brush her hair, take her to school, pick her up from school, make her dinner, give her a bath, put on her pajamas, and put her to bed. I keep track of all her doctor's appointments, dentist appointments, therapy appointments, dance classes, friend's birthday parties, parent-teacher conferences (he doesn't even go to those!) and so on, you get the idea. He keeps saying "she's 50% mine!" but he sure doesn't act like it. It reminds me of something in When Dad Hurts Mom by Lundy Bancroft. "You get all the responsibility, he gets all the authority."

It's definitely "in the best interests of the child" for me to have primary custody, and for him to be the every-other-weekend parent. That way I can keep doing all the important parenting work of making sure she gets to school on time/eats vegetables/gets bathed, and he gets to play with her every other weekend. (Also, I'm pretty sure even if he did get a 50/50 thing, it wouldn't be every other week. I think especially with little kids they have transitions more often than that. I think that just shows that he has no idea how this works.)

Some of you dads worry about the courts being biased towards mothers. I hate to say it, but I hope y'all are right about that, at least for my own sake. I worry that might not be true. I don't think it's fair that my H can spend years going on about how it's the mother's job to take care of the kids, angry at me for not being a SAHM, and then suddenly decides he wants 50/50 custody of D.

And the funny thing is, it's not like since this has happened he's stepped up to be a more involved dad. It's not like he's offered to give her a bath sometimes or get her to school sometimes now. In fact, he hasn't changed much at all since this happened, besides being mad at me. Right at the beginning he said something like, "I'm going to work hard to get you to fall in love with me again!" but so far all he's done on that front is buy me some roses and guilt trip me about keeping the family together. Mostly he's just been reminding me more about why I decided to divorce him in the first place.

He definitely sees all this as I am the bad guy, he's done nothing wrong, and I just don't appreciate how wonderful he is.

Sorry to rant, but this is all so stressful. I hate having to lie to him this whole time about how I'm definitely not divorcing him while the whole time in my head I'm screaming "I want out of here!"

[ForeverDad]

Yes, if it were equal time it would most likely be a 2-2-3 (2-2-5) schedule, appropriate for children under 10 years of age.  But with little parenting involvement and especially his poor behavior overall, even alternate weekends is probably much too generous and not advisable.

The biggest issue is how how much time he can handle doing parenting on his own.  Best to seek for him to have very limited parenting and 'prove himself' as a parent.  His lack of emotional control is especially concerning.  If he is not limited to supervised visitation (with professional monitoring) then you could ask that he start with weekend day visits, no overnights.  If that goes well, then maybe stick toes in the water with an overnight or two and see how it goes.

Odds are, his interest is mostly about you, D4 is incidental.  He wants you to cook, clean, be his bed partner, and foremost be his whipping boy.

Can you look up the history of Whipping Boy?  One source: "A whipping boy was a boy educated alongside a prince in early modern Europe, who supposedly received corporal punishment for the prince's transgressions in his presence."  Can you see that you're suffering undeserved punishment based on his whims and perceptions?  He misbehaves and you get punishment?

[PeteWitsend]

...

She's also one of the more expensive attorneys in town, ugh. This has already cost me thousands of dollars for something that now I'm having to undo.

At this point she actually seems to be getting annoyed with me. Her last message included something like, "I don't know how else I can explain this to you," when I asked why signing the nonsuit takes so long.

I got back in contact with my second choice of the attorneys I interviewed. I didn't end up picking her because I thought she seemed "too nice." Maybe that was a mistake. She did actually email with me and talk with me in person herself, and I felt comfortable talking with her, personality-wise. Maybe that's more important and that way I can have her talk with me and explain things to me better.

I did set up an appointment with her on Monday (yesterday), but had to cancel when my husband decided to call in sick to work (and ended up spending most of the day venting his anger at me). She rescheduled me for Friday at 10 am, but I'm getting anxious because I had moving out planned for next week, and I really want to have a good thorough talk with a lawyer before then. I'm running out of time.

...

 I think a rule of thumb for attorneys is that the amount they charge is unrelated to their competence.  I've worked with many attorneys, both in personal matters and at work, and the quality of advice and results one gets seems to me to be random, in that there's no rule I can point at and say "Okay, if he or she does this/has this/says this they'll be a good attorney."  At best I can say that if they come off as completely incompetent from the beginning, they probably are, or if they're within a couple years right out of law school, they're inexperienced.  But no other rule, e.g. their hourly rate, the amount of the retainer they charge, the size of their firm, the length of time they've been practicing, etc. is consistent with the results they provide.

I guess what I'm saying is, when you choose an attorney, ignore everything you've been told, and go with someone you trust, who is available, and who explains things thoroughly to you.  Don't let them bully you, insult you, dismiss you, or ignore you.  Don't go with ones that can't provide objective legal guidance either... people joke  about "lawyerly answers" that aren't helpful and just basically describe the situation.  Get them to tell you "Do X," or "Don't do X."

When I filed for divorce, we planned out when we'd file, and when BPDxw would be served precisely, and sent those instructions to the process server.  This should be Filing For Divorce 101, and your attorney did a poor job by explaining this to you.  I'm guessing he/she never looked at your file even, so if you had explained everything about your plan and timing to their assistant, that information didn't get passed on.  This is just sloppy, and typical of high volume/low effort legal work that a lot of "successful" family law practices do. 

[PeteWitsend]

Also, nit pick the hell out of whatever bill he or she sends; I guarantee they're inflating their effort by like a factor of 10.  If they get nasty, look up the state bar ethics complaints address and get some information about that, and possibly threaten to file one.  No attorney wants to deal with an ethics complaint, even if they don't think it will go anywhere, and that will likely give you more leverage to avoid having to pay for this debacle.

A lot of lousy attorneys basically just get the retainer, run it down to $0 immediately with inflated busy work, and then do very little on the case. 

[PeteWitsend]

Not that you needed another thing to do right now... but file that advice away for later if/when you have to deal with a bill from them, or feel they didn't earn their retainer. 

[Gerda]

Yes, if it were equal time it would most likely be a 2-2-3 (2-2-5) schedule, appropriate for children under 10 years of age.  But with little parenting involvement and especially his poor behavior overall, even alternate weekends is probably much too generous and not advisable.

The way I understand how it works for my state (and by the way, this was explained to me by that first lawyer that I talked to that I didn't end up hiring but probably should have) is there's a Standard Visitation Schedule that's sort of a default, where the non-custodial parent gets the kid the 1st, 3rd, and 5th weekend of the month (so in months with a 5th weekend, he'd get her two weekends in a row), every Thursday night (so on weeks where he gets her on the weekend, he'll get her four days in a row), a whole month in the summer, and alternating holidays.

That already seems very generous to me, but that lawyer said that would be the most reasonable thing for me to ask for, since he's not abusive towards D4. And I think I read somewhere that the standard schedule still works out to be something like a 60/40 or even a 55/45 split between the parents. So slightly skewed towards one parent, but not that much.

And I worry that he'll try to show that he's Mr. Super Dad at first to make sure he gets more time with D4 and then slack off later. I think others have posted here about that happening with their pwBPD. And then it's hard to go back later and change the custody schedule.

As far as I know, what I would have to do is somehow prove that I've already been the primary caretaker of D before the divorce in order to be made into the custodial parent. I'm wary of accusing him of bad behavior to try to argue for being the custodial parent. It seems like there's a pretty high bar for losing parenting time. Just being a lousy parent and not giving the kid a bath and letting her eat junk food all weekend is probably not bad enough.

My anxiety is just so high right now. Friends are assuring me that of course they'll make me into the custodial parent and there's nothing for me to worry about, but I worry anyway.

[ForeverDad]

A lot comes down to getting a workable Temp order.  Usually that's several week after a divorce is filed, though some states seem to allow the filer to get some sort of a requested temp order from the get go such as possession of the home, a temp protection order, etc.

During that wait for a temp order, or a review of whatever was initially in place, your stbEx (soon-to-be ex) has NO authority to demand his way if you don't agree.  If you limit contact to emails or texts then (1) you won't have to listen to his irate tirades and (2) you will have documentation of what he writes in case needed later in evidence.

While the temp order hearing is usually very brief - mine was scheduled for a half hour - have a list of the most important issues to have addressed for inclusion in the initial order.  Don't get bogged down in minutia or more important things will be left undone.

I can just imagine him claiming to be super involved and demanding 50/50... Who is the child's pediatrician?  dentist?  Do you do regular drop-offs and pick-ups for daycare or school?  How many?  Can you name some of the teachers/workers there?

It's up to you to be focused and do your best to get the "least bad" temp order possible despite the small amount of time allocated for the temp order hearing.