Spoke too soon - husband refusing to sign Temp Orders

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Oops, I misunderstood again. I was under the impression that these Temp Orders I signed were something my husband had already agreed to. Guess that was too good to be true. Turns out it was his lawyer and my lawyer that came up with it, and my lawyer just called me this afternoon to let me know he's refusing to sign it because he doesn't like me being designated as having primary custody.

I guess that's it for him being nice and reasonable. My L said when she was talking with his L, his L said that H had been getting "all weepy" claiming that he was always the primary parent, and his daughter is his world, and so on. I told my L that was absolutely not true that he was the primary parent before, and she said something like, "I didn't think so."

I can tell my L thinks I was foolish for removing the request for a psychological evaluation from the divorce petition. She told me she gets the impression that even his lawyer knows "he's going to be a handful." She told me I could always request it later, but it will cost me extra to request it separately instead of including it in the original petition.

She said we can take out the part in the temporary order where it says I have primary custody, but leave in the standard possession schedule and the request for child support. She said that will basically give me primary custody in all but name, since it's the term "primary custody" that my husband is focusing on.

She seems pretty confident that a judge would end up giving me primary custody eventually anyway, but told me that in the meantime I should gather evidence that I have been the primary parent.

So the battle begins.

[Gerda]

Oops, I misunderstood again. I was under the impression that these Temp Orders I signed were something my husband had already agreed to. Guess that was too good to be true. Turns out it was his lawyer and my lawyer that came up with it, and my lawyer just called me this afternoon to let me know he's refusing to sign it because he doesn't like me being designated as having primary custody.

I guess that's it for him being nice and reasonable. My L said when she was talking with his L, his L said that H had been getting "all weepy" claiming that he was always the primary parent, and his daughter is his world, and so on. I told my L that was absolutely not true that he was the primary parent before, and she said something like, "I didn't think so."

I can tell my L thinks I was foolish for removing the request for a psychological evaluation from the divorce petition. She told me she gets the impression that even his lawyer knows "he's going to be a handful." She told me I could always request it later, but it will cost me extra to request it separately instead of including it in the original petition.

She said we can take out the part in the temporary order where it says I have primary custody, but leave in the standard possession schedule and the request for child support. She said that will basically give me primary custody in all but name, since it's the term "primary custody" that my husband is focusing on.

She seems pretty confident that a judge would end up giving me primary custody eventually anyway, but told me that in the meantime I should gather evidence that I have been the primary parent.

So the battle begins.

[jaded7]

Oh shoot Gerda. I was cautiously very happy for you on your previous post, and somewhat surprised it was that easy. Well, it wasn't.

I don't have any specific advice re: lawyers and agreements since I've never had to tackle all that. I'm just sorry you got your hopes up.

[CravingPeace]

The state I live, one party makes a motion for temp orders. Then the other can, it's basically each parties wish list. Then the commissioner or judge holds a hearing to decide, and the attorneys argue for each case. Yes I guess as in all things both attorneys can settle on the agreement.

I'm sorry to say I wouldn't expect to achieve an agreement when one party is disordered. So you should expect a hearing with a commissioner or judge, unless my state is somehow different.

[Gerda]

I guess I thought he had already approved of it because of provisions in there that seemed like the kinds of things he'd specifically request, like the non-possessory parent getting nightly video calls at 7pm. Also, when my lawyer first called me about this, she said H's lawyer had reached out to her about writing up temporary orders, which made me think his side is the one that initiated the process right after he got served with the divorce papers this week. Turns out my lawyer and his lawyer have been working on it without us, and then they just sent it to each of us to sign. I signed it and he refused. I'm still figuring out how all this stuff works.

I guess one way to look at it is if he delays the process, that just leaves us in the position we're in now longer, which is with D4 under my possession with no formal custody agreement, so I've still got complete control over when he can see her or not. Unless he picks her up from preschool when I don't want him to, but I doubt he'd do that. He's under automatic Standing Orders now so he can't "secret the child away," and maybe more importantly his preschool teachers are aware of the situation, so him doing something like that would make him look bad to them.

I'm still letting him see her this weekend, though that's partly because it's the weekend before I start back to work for the fall semester, so it will actually help me out having someone else watch her so I can finish getting prepared. We agreed that he'll pick her up from school today (Friday) and then drop her off Monday morning. I think doing it that way will be easier for all three of us than me having to take her to the house and then drop her off and leave.

Last night during the video call, stbxH said excitedly, "You know what tomorrow is? Friday! And that means I'm going to pick you up from school and you get to be with Dada this weekend!" D4 then BURST INTO TEARS and said she doesn't want to go and wants to stay here with Mama forever.

So that was awkward. I'm sure H is furious now thinking that I've deliberately turned her against him. I just hope D4 will be OK this weekend and won't miss me TOO much. I'm sure stbxH is going to spoil her as much as he can to try to win back her love.

[kells76]

Last night during the video call, stbxH said excitedly, "You know what tomorrow is? Friday! And that means I'm going to pick you up from school and you get to be with Dada this weekend!" D4 then BURST INTO TEARS and said she doesn't want to go and wants to stay here with Mama forever.

So that was awkward. I'm sure H is furious now thinking that I've deliberately turned her against him. I just hope D4 will be OK this weekend and won't miss me TOO much. I'm sure stbxH is going to spoil her as much as he can to try to win back her love.

Finding a neutral/centered place to parent from can be challenging when BPD is involved. Everything in you, when your child is crying and wants to be with you -- not the disordered parent -- wants to protect her, take her with you, keep her from them, etc.

There aren't black-and-white answers in these situations. I think I've posted here before that the night I (we) called CPS, the kids' mom blew up when she found out, and was raging at/blaming SD18. I went to the kids' mom's house, parked around the corner, and SD18 walked out and I took her back to our place. I didn't take SD16 that time. I don't know of anyone who, outside that situation, would say "oh yeah, it sounds fine to leave one kid behind, good job". Before you're in it, you'd think: of course I'll get both of them out of there.

That wasn't workable and might have escalated things, and with the info I had, it did sound like SD18 was the target and SD16 would not be targeted, no matter who was in the house. I did the best I could with what I knew at the time, and as far as I've heard, SD16 did not experience rage, violence, or danger that night at Mom's house.

I think I'm sharing all that to say -- some voices might say "if the other parent has BPD, you always keep the child away", but we don't get to solve the problems we wish we had, we get to solve the problems we have. And typically the problems we have aren't so stark as: "he's beating her so I'm 110% not letting her go there alone", it's more like -- it's not a great situation, but I can step back and say it isn't violent or dangerous, so I don't love it, but here we are.

Going back to D4: when a parent is impaired by BPD but not targeting a child/not putting a child in danger, we need to walk that tightrope, find balance, and interact with what the kids tell us from a very centered, validating place.

It sounds like at this time, whatever else is going on, D4's dad is not likely to put her in danger or blame her. So it makes sense to stick to the plan that she will be with him this weekend.

It also makes sense that she may be having a lot of feelings about that change. She was just getting used to the new routine, and now there's something different.

That seems like a good, neutral validation target: "I noticed you had a lot of tears when you heard you would do something different this weekend; were you feeling __________ about change?"

Normalizing it may also help: "Lots of people also feel sad about changes. I do to, sometimes. It's pretty normal. When we feel _________ about a change, what can we do to feel better?"

It'll be important not to go down the road of normalizing not sticking to the schedule, or "if she feels bad enough, she stays here/stays there". What's critical is to create a validating environment where she can express a feeling and then learn skills to self-soothe, wherever she is. Otherwise, it sets the stage for her to be at Dad's house, having a great time watching a movie or something, and it's time to leave, but she tells you "I don't want to go with you! I want to stay with Dad!" and schedule change based on child feelings has been legitimized.

Not saying you're doing any of this!

More giving some thoughts and ideas for navigating those times that really tear at your heart. Empowering D4 to care about her own feelings and soothe herself, wherever she is at, is such a valuable life skill. It's one that her dad may struggle to model, so it'll be on you to show her, hey, we have resources inside ourselves, and when we miss someone/don't want a change, we can do XYZ in those times.

Hope that's helpful food for thought for navigating the weekend;

kells76

[Gerda]

D4 seemed more accepting of the idea of spending the weekend at her Dad's this morning while I was taking her to school. She was saying things like, "I do miss Dada, but I'm going to miss you too," which I thought was surprisingly mature for her age. I told her that Dada's going to pick her up today, but then the next time she goes to school, I will pick her up and take her back to my home.

I'm more worried about stbxH accusing me to turning her against him. I've actually been trying really hard to NOT do that. He's been doing that just fine on his own! I've read a lot about how to walk that tightrope of not actually trying to turn the kid against the other parent, while at the same time not invalidating the kid's feelings about the other parent.

From what I've read, most kids are smart enough to figure out on their own that something isn't right about the disordered parent, and I think she's already doing that even though she's only 4.

I had a therapy session this afternoon, and my therapist said it sounds to her like stbxH is going to be a "Disneyland Dad" and spoil her this weekend, but that's actually a good thing because that means D4 will have lots of fun and won't miss me as much. I'm already missing her badly though! This is the first night I've spent without her in her entire life!

A couple of my friends are coming over tomorrow to try to help cheer me up though, maybe go out to have some grown-up fun while I don't have D4.

[ForeverDad]

Be available for contact this weekend in case some sort of whatever boondoggle excuse occurs.  As I recall, he's not used to parenting involvement.  He could call and ask you to finish the weekend.  Just be prepared for the unexpected this weekend.

[GaGrl]

If he isn't used to parenting, you might need to block out time for an extra long bath,  hair wash, and toothbrush on D's return. Clothes may come home dirty (for you to wash) or clean because she wore the same clothes all weekend. Note any of this.

My son returned on Sunday late afternoons. Transitions were difficult the first year. My ex wasn't uBPD, but he did over stimulate our son before bringing him home, so Sunday evenings had to be spent quietening things down and getting ready for the next school week.

[Gerda]

I'm pretty sure he's too proud to turn to me for any parenting advice this weekend. He's trying to show off what a great Dad he is and that he really doesn't need me.

He'd been telling D4 on video phone that she's going to get to see Grandma this weekend, so I took that to mean he's going to enlist his mother to help him. The thing is, his mother is in her mid-80s and before the split used to give me parenting advice that was decades out of date. (For example, she lent me this parenting book that was written in the 1960's and in the introduction compares misbehaving children to the "Negroes" involved in the Civil Rights Movement.)

His sister might also help. She moved in with their mother to help care for her (the fact that his mother needs his sister to care for her now also makes me worried about Grandma caring for D4), but his sister has dogs instead of children, and dogs are little easier to take care of.

But maybe between the three of them they'll muddle through somehow.

[PeteWitsend]

How did it go?

Did he manage to loop in his mom and/or sister? 

Can you contact your ex-MIL and SIL directly?  might be worth reassuring them you're around if something happens and they can't take care of your D and your ex-H also bails

[Gerda]

I think I'm going to post a new thread when I have time, because I have a feeling this is going to get long. The short version is D4 got back to me mostly OK, but I can tell he's already trying to use some manipulative tactics with her, which has got me really angry. I've been having to do a bit of emotional damage control with her after I got her back.

His lawyer also just sent my lawyer a counter-proposal for the temp order that I hope others will agree is unreasonable to say the least. I have an appointment to talk with my lawyer about it next week.

If he still wants me to come back to him, he's doing a terrible job winning me over. Just reminding me of why I left him in the first place and making me think I've been way too nice to him so far.

[CravingPeace]

Gerda share when you can I can advise what I am seeing as I am right in it too. I just want to remind you of the positives. You are out. You never need to live with him again. You have majority control of your daughter. Try to focus on that and you.

As annoying and upsetting as uBPD are . We cant do alot about it. I am about to post a new thread too. I am going through something similar only I feel  it's actually worse as my uBPD forced me out of my house I had 10 minutes and I literally took some clothes. At first I only saw the kids for 2 nights in 14.... Defending what she did cost me over 6 k. I am telling you this becuase I want you to focus on the positives

[ForeverDad]

Another perspective is to step back... Imagine a year or two or five has passed.  Ponder each hurdle you encounter now from that perspective.  In five years will you look back and say to yourself, "This was ridiculous, in the long run this will be one of the least of my dilemmas."  Or perhaps instead, "This was a tricky moment, I almost gave/gifted away one of my most important decisions simply because I thought I have to be nice or fair or didn't have time to ponder the ramifications.  Good thing I listened to my lawyer, therapist and peer support."

Right now the separation is new.  The entire scenario is so new you may not even realize you have time to ponder your decisions or consult your team.  Already you're getting the sense that your ex is willing to manipulate or con or guilt you into giving up some of the advantages you have now.  No, you don't have to be fair, nice or whatever... court won't care about that.  All you have to do is ensure you aren't nasty - that's not in your nature anyway - but you can still be a "mama bear protecting her cub."