Navigating the daily

[AlwaysAnxious]

I can't help but say thank you every time I start a post. This group has been a beacon of hope for me.

I'd love to hear how you all navigate the daily stuff - like the attitude? The "me first" aggressions?  My daughter seems so angry and sad all the time and anything I say I need to do gets a snarky response like "oh, so I'm being bumped again?" (even if it hasn't happened). The under the surface bubbling of emotions that you now are coming to a head?

I'd also be grateful to know how you enforce decisions. I have been waiting for a critical decision from my daughter now for over a month and each day she says she can't focus enough on it.  It's down to a crunch time....

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Sancho]

Hi AlwaysAnxious
I am wondering if you could clarify the weekly/daily routine for both you and DD.
In an earlier post you said:
 
She needs me several times a day to go for a drive with her to "talk".  If I don't do the talking or prompting, then she gets very upset.  We both work for the same company and I put in the extra hours after or before just to keep up.

Do you both work part time or different days? I am not sure how it happens that you leave work to be with DD, driving around but then you have to make up the time? Does DD have to make up the time too?

I am just thinking that perhaps before homing in on interactions, whether trying to create a different structure would be helpful? You seem to have multiple times during each day when you are called upon to be with DD – am I correct in thinking this?

If so, I think I would start by trying to separate work and supporting DD. Is this possible do you think?

I have not been working this year and find I am at DD’s beck and call – to the point where I am thinking of finding work of some sort next year. As it stands now there is no part of your life that DD can’t access – which also means she doesn’t have the opportunity to sit with her emotions until you were available.

I know this isn’t really responding to your post, but it is something that I can’t quite see clearly in my own mind.

[Sancho]

Hi AlwaysAnxious
I am wondering if you could clarify the weekly/daily routine for both you and DD.
In an earlier post you said:
 
She needs me several times a day to go for a drive with her to "talk".  If I don't do the talking or prompting, then she gets very upset.  We both work for the same company and I put in the extra hours after or before just to keep up.

Do you both work part time or different days? I am not sure how it happens that you leave work to be with DD, driving around but then you have to make up the time? Does DD have to make up the time too?

I am just thinking that perhaps before homing in on interactions, whether trying to create a different structure would be helpful? You seem to have multiple times during each day when you are called upon to be with DD – am I correct in thinking this?

If so, I think I would start by trying to separate work and supporting DD. Is this possible do you think?

I have not been working this year and find I am at DD’s beck and call – to the point where I am thinking of finding work of some sort next year. As it stands now there is no part of your life that DD can’t access – which also means she doesn’t have the opportunity to sit with her emotions until you were available.

I know this isn’t really responding to your post, but it is something that I can’t quite see clearly in my own mind.

[CC43]

Hi Anxious,

I'm glad you find some hope in this forum.  And it's impressive that you're so attuned to your daughter, while at the same time being open to trying new things.  From what you tell us, clearly your daughter isn't in a very good place right now.

I'm with Sancho and wonder if you could try to carve out more time and space away from your daughter, in essence weaning her off your constant attention, so that she can eventually learn to self-soothe and be more independent, while at the same time enable you to reclaim a more balanced life.  It sounds like you are not only sleep deprived, but very stressed out when running behind at work and fretting over your daughter non-stop.  That's why I mentioned on earlier posts that you might establish some boundaries to preserve YOUR health and wellness.  You can't control your daughter, but you can control your own schedule.  And when you are better rested and have time to attend to your own needs, you're better able to handle your daughter.  So I'd reiterate, maybe you start with a strict bedtime and phones off regime.  I'd also recommend the practice of not attending to personal calls or texts at work unless you are on break.  Those two things could help you reclaim some control over your life, in my opinion.

Another "trick" which helped me in dealing with my diagnosed stepdaughter was to think in terms of "adult tantrums" and "adult time-outs."  So when she dysregulated (had an adult tantrum), typically the best response was to give her time and space to calm down (an adult time-out).  The timeline was up to her, but her "time-outs" would typically last days or weeks.  During this time, communications would typically stop.  The key was not to reach out and "beg" her to let us know she's OK.  After a few days, sending a neutral text would be fine (e.g. I'm making pasta for dinner tonight, and you're welcome to join us if you like), but don't expect an answer or for her to show up.  And if she texts something mean, don't respond, because a mean text does not deserve a response; and if she's being mean, she's not in the right mood to listen to a reply anyway.  Only if she threatens suicide do you consider calling cops to check on her.

As for your daughter's mood, I think you probably have a good read on her.  You stated something like, my daughter is sad and angry all the time, and any little thing will set her off.  My stepdaughter was just like that when she was in her miserable funk stage. I'm guessing that passing through a room where I was standing could trigger in her feelings of inferiority, shame or harsh judgment.  Since my husband and I took care of all her needs--except personal hygiene, which she neglected--she did NOTHING productive.  That made things worse in my opinion.

My theory is, if you do nothing, you feel like you're nothing.  My other theories are if you eat crap, you feel like crap.  A body at rest tends to stay at rest.  And if all you think about is how horrible your life is, your life will be horrible.  But there's a flip side:  if you are friendly, you will have friends.  If you work hard, things will work for you.  And if you have a positive attitude, positive things will happen.  If you move, you'll get some momentum going.  If you study, you will learn.  And if you practice, you'll improve.  Every day is a NEW day full of opportunities.  It is never too late to try to change for the better.  Especially if you're only in your 20s!

I will post in a separate section something I found on the Internet describing the "Petulant BPD" subtype.  It describes behaviors and attitudes associated with this variant of BPD, which I think describes my stepdaughter perfectly.  You can take a look and see if it applies to your daughter.  Anyway, it describes some "triggers" that I wasn't aware of until I read the description.

In the meantime, I hope things start to turn around for the two of you.  Please don't lose hope.  I almost did, but things did turn around for my stepdaughter, who once seemed less functional than your daughter is now.

[CC43]

I'm following up with a description of the petulant BPD subtype I found on the Internet.

What Are Examples of Petulant Behavior?
Petulant when used to describe this subtype of BPD, can include the following examples of petulant behavior:

Lashing out at others and being aggressive with no seeming precipitating cause
Over-responses to stimuli that include crying, yelling, or other socially inappropriate behaviors
Going to extremes to avoid situations, persons, peoples that they feel rejected by. This can appear as manipulation
Difficulty with authority; having “authority problems” and issues with compliance to higher management
Erratic behavior such as oversharing information with others
Other classic petulant BPD symptoms include:

Restlessness and impatience: Individuals with BPD, including the petulant subtype, often have an intense fear of abandonment. They may be hypersensitive to real or perceived threats of rejection or abandonment. This fear can lead to restlessness and impatience as they constantly seek reassurance and validation from others. They may become anxious and agitated when they feel uncertain about the stability of their relationships.
Emotional dysregulation: BPD is marked by emotional instability. People with the petulant subtype may struggle to manage their emotions effectively, leading to intense and quickly shifting feelings of anger, frustration, and resentment. They may feel slighted by others’ actions or words, even if the perceived offense is minor, and these emotions can build up over time.
Negative self-image: Individuals with BPD often struggle with a poor self-image and feelings of worthlessness. In the petulant subtype, this negative self-perception can contribute to a general sense of pessimism. They may believe that they are inherently flawed or that others will inevitably disappoint them, leading to a cynical outlook on life and relationships.
Emotional hypersensitivity: Petulant individuals with BPD may be highly emotionally sensitive and react strongly to perceived slights or disappointments. Their expectations of others may be unrealistic, and they may quickly become disillusioned when these expectations are not met. This can lead to a pattern of feeling easily slighted or let down in relationships.
Impulsive reactions: People with petulant BPD may react impulsively and dramatically to perceived slights or disappointments. They might engage in impulsive behaviors like self-harm or substance abuse as a way to cope with their intense emotions, leading to further problems in their relationships and reinforcing their sense of disillusionment.
Given that there are over 250 ways to meet criteria for BPD, no two cases look exactly the same. Precision in diagnosis and the application of tailored treatments emerge as indispensable compass points, guiding individuals grappling with petulant BPD toward an enriched sense of well-being and an elevated quality of life.

10 Signs of Petulant BPD
Petulant BPD is marked by a pessimistic attitude, unstable relationships, and fluctuations between anger and depression.3 People with petulant BPD tend to have an unstable sense of self and chaotic relationships. Their inability to manage their anger and instead express it passive-aggressively (or outright aggressively) pushes others away.

Here are ten signs of petulant BPD that you may observe in yourself or others:

1. Emotional Outbursts
Those with petulant BPD are prone to emotional outbursts directed toward others. They are impatient and can become explosive when their needs are not met. For some, not having their needs met can trigger early childhood memories where their primary caregivers failed to support them. As a result, they expect perfection and struggle to manage their disappointment when these standards are unmet.

2. Passive Aggressive Behavior
Petulant borderlines may vacillate between emotional outbursts and passive-aggressive behavior and language when they are angry. Passive-aggressiveness involves expressing anger indirectly, such as taking a hostile attitude, rather than expressing it directly to a person. This is one of many ways that the petulant borderline can drive a wedge between themselves and others.

3. Pessimistic Attitude
People with petulant BPD present with an overall pessimistic attitude toward themselves, others, and the world. Their primary emotions are negative, including feeling irritable, annoyed, slighted, stubborn, and cynical. Internally, they may experience worthlessness, guilt, and shame. This overall attitude can be off-putting for others who may feel unable to help their loved ones change or see things in more positive terms.

4. A “Push & Pull” Pattern In Relationships
People with petulant BPD tend to engage in a “push/pull” pattern in relationships. They want to be close to others but act in ways that drive them away with their explosive anger and borderline rage or overall negative attitude. This “pushing” can be the result of loved ones failing to live up to expectations or to prevent future disappointment. This dynamic makes it difficult for people to maintain borderline personality disorder and relationships.

5. Easily Insulted
Individuals with petulant BPD may be described as overly sensitive. Because of their overall pessimistic demeanor, they can easily feel slighted and may express this aggressively or hold it in and build resentment. Those with this type of BPD tend to view people in “black and white” terms (known as BPD splitting), so they are likely to hold onto a grudge after feeling insulted.

6. Resentment Toward Others
Just as those with petulant BPD tend to be easily annoyed and insulted by others, they often hold onto resentments and are reluctant to let them go. This can be a way of driving others away from them since too much closeness can be unbearable.

7. Demanding of Others
Those with petulant BPD tend to hold high expectations for others and can become angry when these expectations are not met. Loved ones may feel like they can “never do anything right.”

8. Jealousy
Petulant borderlines tend to feel jealous of others’ happiness and success. This fits with their overall negative outlook on life. Their jealousy may be mixed with self-criticism or a sense that life is unfair, that they have been cheated, or that others are cheating.

9. Paranoia
People with petulant BPD are prone to feeling suspicious and paranoid about others’ intentions. They often assume that others are out to get them or are only interested in meeting their own needs. Even when people in their life prove themselves to be trustworthy, the petulant borderline may act in ways that alienate the relationship.

10. Guilt & Worthlessness
Though petulant borderlines are likely to be reactive toward others, they may turn their anger inward and experience feelings of depression, guilt, worthlessness, and self-criticism. This is common following emotional outbursts as they attempt to make up for their behavior.

How Do You Deal with Petulant BPD?
One of the best ways to deal with borderline personality disorder is to seek professional counseling and supportive services. Dialectical behavior therapy is a very helpful tool that allows people to reduce petulant BPD behaviors by allowing them to gain insight into their behaviors and to take personal accountability for their actions.

One of the best ways that DBT is able to help those with petulant BPD is to allow them to build their resiliency and distress tolerance levels so that they remain in control when experiencing unwanted stimuli.

Ultimately, it’s through understanding and compassion that we can offer support to those navigating the labyrinth of petulant BPD. To those facing this challenge, please know that there is hope and help available.

Seek the guidance of compassionate therapists and psychiatric professionals if you’re struggling to manage petulant BPD symptoms. With the right treatment and support, the path ahead can become a road to resilience

[AlwaysAnxious]

Hi Sancho and CC43

Wanting to answer some of the questions.

My daughter is 26 and undiagnosed. I wish I knew how to make her see she needs help but she truly believes that she is the recipient of betrayal and abandonment and that she is not the one with the problem.

Our daily routine is that she lives in her own condo which she owns.
We both work in the same company - she works in a different department than I do. My role is higher management and hers is an independent contributor. 

She is high functioning - everyone believes we have the best mother/daughter relationship and, we do except in the last couple of years when all this started.

We both currently work from home and so, I get up to start my day earlier than her.  She books time in my calendar for about 1 hour, twice a day.  I extend my day and work on the weekends to make sure everything gets done.  She, like many BPD as I understand it, doesn't sleep much so she will often work through the night.

In addition, she texts me throughout the day, usually telling me she isn't doing well or telling me she doesn't feel good about this guy she is obsessing over (whole other story there).  The obsession with this guy takes all of her time, energy and focus. 

In between work and the evening drive, I make dinner, get things done that need to be done (ie, mother in law visits, my other child sometimes requires some guidance, housework, or sometimes, a book or something).  It's usually only an hour or two so not a lot of time.

In the evening, I go with her again usually at the end of the night.  Around 9 pm.  She generally wants to drive around but I have started parking closer to her house as she tends to get angry and start walking. She will make this carry on for hours some night and this is also where the weird emotionless talking and mumbling comes in and the suicide threats.  This happens every couple of weeks but the night time visits happen every night.

I have begun shutting my phone off at night but usually, before I do, she will be sure to text me things to make me reconsider. Last night was that her mind and body were just done.  She has nothing left to give.  I usually remind her that she has fun upcoming plans which she then says she doesn't want to do because either this guy won't be there or because she has no reason to want to live.  When I called the police, they didn't really help.  They chalked her up to a spoiled brat and said they couldn't do anything and that I should go as it will end better.

I am due to go travelling for 2 weeks with the rest of the family - a trip she has yet to say if she's coming on or not despite my having a plane ticket for her (she originally said yes) and we leave in a week.  When I return, I leave again  a day later for another 2 week work trip. Both trips are in opposite time zones and I'm not really sure how she will self soothe or react when there is no one there to help her.  It terrifies me to think no one will be here to help her but I also hope it gives her opportunity to find her way to self help.

I have also tried to get her to see a different counsellor or start medicine or DBT - but because there's nothing wrong with her (according to her) she just sees her own therapist (social worker) who helps her navigate this guy situation.

I do see a therapist to help navigate but truly, I don't know how I'm not going to hit rock bottom here soon. It's affecting all my relationships and hers and she doesn't even seem to like spending time with me any more but insists we do.

I wish I knew somewhere that could give me literal one on one coaching. 

Also, CC43, that description fits her to a T.

[Sancho]

Thanks for the details AlwaysAnxious. It makes a huge difference to the way I can understand how things are.

I can see why the separation of work/family is so difficult when you both work at home. Can I ask - sorry more questions - is your timetable able to be accessed by anyone in the company, and that is how DD is able to take 2 hours of time during the working day?

That is a huge amount of time to catch up each day. It makes your working day so long, not to mention stressful. Wonder if there is any way of changing this?

But back to your original query - and I have another question! When DD is talking about problems etc do you find yourself offering solutions?

There is lots of stuff happening around a BPD person unloading on their 'target of blame'. One thing is that they seem to put the TOB into a corner all the time. They will reject suggestions out of hand, not give a definite answer to something that needs to be answered etc etc.

It is an unhealthy relationship because of these reasons - and more!

I think you have started to take back some control and I hope you can continue in this way. Parking close to DD's home is a really good idea.

Sorry for so many questions, but it does make a big difference knowing some details. We can have such different circumstances while still dealing with similar problems. Your DD seems to me to show some classic BPD signs and sometimes being diagnosed doesn't really make much difference unless the person commits to solutions. Given your DD doesn't have insight into herself, she probably wouldn't access that help at this point in time.

One other thing I thought of is wondering if you have discussed DD accessing anything to help her sleep - because these nights would not be helping her, but I can understand things going round and round at night would keep her awake. There is an over the counter antihistamine my DD uses ( originally recommended by GP) called Sleep Aid.

Would your DD be open to just trying something like that?

Sorry for all the questions!

[CC43]

Hi Anxious,

Thanks for the additional details.  My read is that your daughter is very high functioning, as she's able to hold down a job, and she's held a romantic relationship for some time.  True, BPD could be impairing her emotional resiliency, and the romantic relationship might feel like it's "too much" for her right now.  But apparently she hasn't blown up the relationship with her boyfriend yet, or else her guy would be out of the picture (probably).

I'm not aware that pwBPD necessarily have sleep disorders.  What it sounds like to me is that both of you might have poor sleep hygiene.  Chief culprits are irregular hours (meaning lacking a consistent sleep/waking routine) and screens before bedtime and/or in bed.  If sleep and wake times are inconsistent, she could be giving herself "jetlag" and feel lousy.  And if she's using screens a lot, the screen brightness can throw off her circadian rhythm, tricking her brain and body into thinking it's daytime instead of nighttime.  Turning off screens at 10 PM and committing to a regular bedtime at 11 PM (or whatever time works best for you and her) would result in more, and more restful, sleep.  I'd try that before resorting to any medications.  I find that going to bed consistently within a one-hour window (sometime between 10 and 11 PM), and waking consistently within a one-hour window (sometime between 5:30 and 6:30 AM) is what worked best for me while employed.  And I respected those windows on weekends, too.  I was actually too tired to deviate too much from that schedule.

Another way to get better sleep is exercise.  I know that my body NEEDS exercise to get decent sleep; if not, I probably get only four or five hours of shut-eye, which is "enough" for my body but not "enough" for my brain, in my opinion.  So maybe what you could both do is commit to an after-dinner stroll, instead of an after-dinner drive, and maybe make it a 30-minute loop.  It might really help, especially if you are both working from home all day, and it's a nice break to get out of the house to stretch your legs and breathe some fresh air!  I look forward to walks on a daily basis.  And in my opinion, taking walks counts as exercise.  It's what our bodies are built for.  If your daughter won't go with you, maybe what you could do is go on your stroll and simultaneously talk to her on the phone, but say you're hanging up when you get home because you're busy and on a tight schedule.

Regarding the question about "enforcing decisions," my opinion is that your daughter needs to face the consequences of her decisions, not you.  The choice is entirely up to her.  If you invite her on vacation and make reservations or buy plane tickets, it's her choice whether or not she goes.  If she doesn't go, she doesn't go.  Don't beg her, and I wouldn't even remind her (just send her the reservation details by email or text, and leave it at that).  And I think that you should certainly go on your vacation.  If you stay behind, worrying that she'll self-destruct, you might inadvertently be sending her the message that she's hopelessly sick, and that she has control over you, and that you don't deserve to live your life.  If she really is that sick, she can call a hotline or check herself into a hospital.  (My stepdaughter did this, and in a way it was a relief, because she knew these options existed, and she finally decided to take control of her mental health.)  Or if your daughter threatens suicide while you're away, then you'll have to dial 911, or convince a neighbor or police to do a wellness check.  I know this sounds scary.  But you'd be taking more control over your life in the process.  And you deserve to go on vacation.

By the way, I missed a total of three vacations to "babysit" my stepdaughter in her early 20s.  I wouldn't do that again.  I would have skipped only the first one, when she was in the hospital and was going to be discharged during my vacation, and she didn't have anywhere to go but move into my home.  The other times, it almost felt like she manufactured a crisis to try to disrupt the vacation.  And I think it sent her the wrong messages, as well as deprive me of much-needed vacation time.

My general approach with my stepdaughter now is to invite her to everything I can, while maintaining zero expectations, meaning I don't expect her to reply at all (even if that's rude), and I don't expect her to show up, even if she said she would (even if that's rude as well).  She can't blame me for "abandoning" her, because she's the one who didn't show up.

I hope this helps give you some ideas.  I wish you some rest and peace.

[Sancho]

I really like CC43's idea of exercise. Perhaps you already have this in your routine, though you seem to be stretched to the limit and probably don't see how you could manage anything extra.

It is a huge benefit for anxiety. I have a young friend who is highly anxious and she runs - it produced a chemical in the brain that is wonderful for her relaxing. So if you don't have an exercise plan atm . . . would it be possible to meet up with DD at 'lunch time' and go for a walk and quick cuppa (instead of the morning/afternoon hour? Meet after work at a gym for an hour? (You wouldn't have to work extra hours to catch up lost during the day)

Do a 20 min walk yourself at home? Follow a YouTube exercise routine?

My DD has a medical appointment this Tuesday and then a procedure booked for the following Tues. I don't know if she will turn up to either. I am so anxious atm because it need to happen.

But I have to keep telling myself I have no control over her decisions. re the holiday - perhaps just say 'Could you let me know by xxxxx' and then leave it at that. I suppose it means you lose the money you have put down for it.

I think I will need to up my 20 minute daily walk to get through these next couple of weeks!

[AlwaysAnxious]

My pwBPD actually exercises excessively and so going for a walk with me isn't really what she wants however, if I can carve out time, then I could definitely - and should definitely get this into my routine. I used to go every day but with all this, I haven't made the time.

The other thing is that during the times we meet, I am helping her with somethings she doesn't really need my help with and so it generally means we need to be able to be in a position of concentration and where she can type.