FAQ: Is BPD a spectrum disorder? Can there be "BPD lites"?

[BPDFamily.com]

I think if you were to ask any psychologist/psychiatrist that for any condition bad enough to be called a personality disorder that there is nothing "Lite" about it.  I think it is possible for people to have BP traits though without having a PD or for some people with BPD to be less afflicted than others with BPD.  I think the term "BPD lite" is an oxymoron like "jumbo shrimp".   Sorry if this post is a little persnickety but I agree that there is a spectrum to people afflicted with BP behaviors or just about any other mental health issue.

[Up Out of It]

I think if you were to ask any psychologist/psychiatrist that for any condition bad enough to be called a personality disorder that there is nothing "Lite" about it.  I think it is possible for people to have BP traits though without having a PD or for some people with BPD to be less afflicted than others with BPD.  I think the term "BPD lite" is an oxymoron like "jumbo shrimp".   Sorry if this post is a little persnickety but I agree that there is a spectrum to people afflicted with BP behaviors or just about any other mental health issue.

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT This board is intended for general questions about BPD and other personality disorders, trait definitions, and related therapies and diagnostics. Topics should be formatted as a question. Please do not host topics related to the specific pwBPD in your life - those discussions should be hosted on an appropraite [L1] - [L4] board. You will find indepth information provided by our senior members in our workshop board discussions (click here).

[united for now]

Interesting question - Are they "lite" because the non is doing a great job of eggshell walking, or because the BPD only occassionaly loses it?

The very nature of the question is about responsibility, and who has it.

It implies that non's of low functioning BPD's aren't doing a good enough job of handling their BPD.

And, that non's of high functioning BPS's are more enablers and more emeshed than others.

It also removes the responsibility of the BP to handle themselves and places blame onto the non.

I do think that there is an element of control built into the dynamics though. When the BP feels in control and validated by the non, then they are less likely to act out.  Anything that makes the BP feel a loss of control or feeling "less than" will lead to them acting out. But, since they have twisted cognitive beliefs, then the reasons they blow it are impossible for the non to understand and correct. The non is left guessing and struggling to adjust and correct an area that they don't comprehend. A receipe for disaster.

My belief? There can be "BPD lites".

Some BP's are better able to hold things together and have fewer triggers than others. Better coping mechanisms and strategies.

Some non's are really good at not triggering the BP, so they have fewer blow ups to deal with, creating less of a combative environment.

Sometimes it is a combination of both working together.

In the end, if our goal is less conflict and more happiness, then working on ourselves to stop making things worse, can only create more positives than negatives.

Fair? no. Doable? the possibility exists.

[peacebaby]

Though I don't think either "lite" or "high functioning" really describes anything, there are all kinds of different ways of acting and feeling when you have BPD. There are 9 criteria: some have all, some have 5, and there are a million ways each of these criteria can manifest itself. So it's pretty clear that this disease can create very different kinds of people, plus their own personality and experiences, where they are in recovery, and how their relationships are with the people they are close to. How they respond to their out of control feelings can make them monsters or scared children or a million other things.

For instance, "Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment." Just think of all the ways a mentally ill person could act if they were under the spell of this huge fear. Paranoid behavior, panic attacks, physical or verbal abuse, suicide attempts, cutting, manipulation, begging, controlling.   

So you look at how each person is symptomatic and some of them are "easier to deal with" than others, or "nicer" or "crazier" or "more confused" or "better at dealing with life" or "constantly abusive." Some of them can handle every day life while having BPD and some can't. Some are lucid much of the time, some are lucid infrequently.

And when a person with BPD is in active recovery, one assumes their BPD gets "liter" as time goes by.

Peacebaby

[K. Salters-Pedneault, Ph.D.]

Hi all,

I'm reading this thread with great interest and wanted to contribute a bit about what the research says on this topic. There is a type of analysis, called a taxonometric analysis, that is designed to answer exactly this question (i.e., does BPD exist on a continuum or is it a distinct "got it" or "don't got it" category). There have been a number of taxonometric studies of BPD; all (including a particularly rigorous one, cited below) have concluded that BPD is not a distinct category; it seems to be exist on a continuum from "BPD lite" to severe BPD. These analyses have been used to argue that our current way of diagnosing BPD is wrong and needs serious revision.

Interestingly, other personality disorders have been found to represent distinct categories (e.g., schizotypal PD).

Best,

Kristalyn

K. Salters-Pedneault, Ph.D.

About.com's Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder

www.BPD.about.com

1. Rothschild L, Cleland C, Haslam N, Zimmerman M. A Taxometric Study of Borderline Personality Disorder. Journal of Abnormal Psychology. 2003 Nov ;112(4):657-666.

[another_guyD]

Hi all,

I'm reading this thread with great interest and wanted to contribute a bit about what the research says on this topic. There is a type of analysis, called a taxonometric analysis, that is designed to answer exactly this question (i.e., does BPD exist on a continuum or is it a distinct "got it" or "don't got it" category). There have been a number of taxonometric studies of BPD; all (including a particularly rigorous one, cited below) have concluded that BPD is not a distinct category; it seems to be exist on a continuum from "BPD lite" to severe BPD. These analyses have been used to argue that our current way of diagnosing BPD is wrong and needs serious revision.

Interestingly, other personality disorders have been found to represent distinct categories (e.g., schizotypal PD).

Does this mean that BPD is categorically different then the other Axis II disorders?

Or is it a result of the rather all-encompassing nature of the diagnosis?

I am very curious... .

~AgD

[Unreal]

Does this mean that BPD is categorically different then the other Axis II disorders?

Or is it a result of the rather all-encompassing nature of the diagnosis?

I am very curious... .

~AgD

Actually, an argument can be made that this is applied to all of Axis II.  I know the poster mentioned Schizotypal as a categorical condition, but one could potentially throw that into Axis I.  Some/many have argued for a dimensional diagnostic system for personality. 


for example. . .

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18312125?ordinalpos=6&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

[Ellamama]

I have a brother with mental illness, and if you know people who develop severe mental illnesses as young adults, you start out worrying about a diagnosis.  Somehow, it is a comfort to have a name for this thing that is destroying your brother.  One day, though, you realize that your brother doesn't need a diagnosis, he needs someone to treat his symptoms!  Sure enough, while his diagnosis has changed a bit over the years, he has found treatments that work and is doing much, much better.

It dawned on me after thinking about this thread that if I have a neighbor who gets falling-down drunk every night, I probably don't need a doctor to tell me that the person is an alcholic.  It's the same with Momster.  I know the symptoms, I know I can't tolerate her behavior anymore, and that's pretty much where I get off the bus and go NC!  I went through a phase where I really investigated BP a lot, but now, the actual name matters less than knowing I cannot be her whipping girl anymore, and that she has no intention of changing.  It's sad, but it's reality.

-Ellamama

[uberman]

Labels are good for insurance companies and breakfast cereals.  My uBPDw is a full time social worker at a local hospital.  She regularly exhibits exhibits traits 5 of 9 traits, and episodically the other 4.  She is great at work. We've been married 22 years, and most of the pain is directed at me and in the last sev years our 5 teenage children.  the 17 -19 year olds (3 of teenagers) are upfront with her that she is hurting them.

People live in a spectrum, no pure black, no pure white. just a zillion shades of gray.

She is able to work well in a professional environment and keep her self in balance by attacking me occaisionally.

no cookie cutters in here

[LifeLover]

 High and low functioning is an interesting topic. My ex actually had traits of hpd and NPD with a bit of GAD thrown in too, although I thought for years that  she had BPD. This has been diagnosed by a psychologist during a child custody evaluation. I found this forum in 04 when I left the relationship.

I thought a lot about whom I fell for when I discovered PD’s and I was very critical of myself and maybe my own personality flaws in picking a partner with some serious issues. Certainly I would describe her as a high functioning Pd individual. runs her own company and makes lots of cash, no addiction problems, no convictions, very good education and psychology degree! Very attractive in every respect so yes, high functioning.

I think you have to look at all the criteria for BPD or whatever Pd there is and look at this criteria in a balanced perspective. Look at the extremes, take a black and white view of each criteria and see what can be in-between. Also look at your own faults, co-dependency, loneliness etc and see why you accepted certain behaviours. Don’t blame the Pd individual for their faults. Look at yourself and why you didn’t see them or why you accepted them for so long.

The Pd’s may have been more obvious when lower functioning but you didn’t or couldn’t see them, why was that? I have been too hard on myself in recent years and still am. I am trying not to see faults in every girl I am involved with and it is clear that the hurt that you can receive from these relationships hit to the core of you.

The attachment angle is also important and I felt that looking at how and why I attach in the way that I do, what I get out of the relationship was very important. But looking at high and low functioning I felt was an excuse not to look at me.

[oceanheart]

My reply isn't going to be so much about low vs. high functioning. I've seen it used in different context, with low sometimes meaning not being able to work, being frequently hospitalized, self-injury; and high sometimes meaning able to hide the bad behaviors around non-intimates, among other definitions. So perhaps the meaning of the terms isn't that descriptive if there's no across-board agreement.

I went back & forth between the two over the course of my disorder, so it was complex... .

One of the self-help books I used in my recovery is Angry Heart: Overcoming Borderline and Addictive Disorders. They have a 3 recovery milestone stages:

Early stage recovery

Able to write about your emotional pain

Able to cut temper outbursts short

Able to reduce addictive activities (drugs, sex, self-injury etc)

Able to slow down stress accelerated mental activity

Able to accept your deficits without anger or resentment

Middle stage recovery

Able to tolerate direct feedback without anger or acting out

Able to show others appreciation for help given to you

Willing to follow advice of a mentor (therapist, trusted friend)

The defensive "wall"is down more than it is up

Able to work effectively with a therapist

Latter stage recovery

Able to hold onto close relationships

Able to hold steady employment

Able to tolerate stress without going to addictive activities

Comfortable with being affectionate toward a loved one.

If anyone's interested I could take a look back through my process of recovery and see what I could determine in re: Walrus' criteria question. I haven't thought of it much, tho once and again something will occur to me that reminds me of how much progress I've made: like being able to shrug off someone cutting me off in traffic. This from the woman who nearly caused accidents with my previous road-rage behavior  

[Skip]

This is an interesting question.  

My understanding is that there is no such clinical condition known as "high functioning borderline".  Rather, high functioning is a generalized term to describe an individuals ability to function in society - a key measurement of remission. It includes the ability to support themselves, care for themselves, not represent a physical risk to themselves or others, etc...  I've seen the term used with a broad range of disorders from autism to depression.  I believe that evolving from a low functioning to a high function state is measure of progress.

The confusion comes, I believe, because support groups and authors have adopted this term as label a subset of the BPD population that has the core traits of BPD, but not at an outwardly expressive level.   For example, in the list below, the impulsivity would be hidden from plain site (i.e., fellow employees, casual friends).

• frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.

• a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.

• identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.

• impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.

• recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior

• affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).

• chronic feelings of emptiness

• inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)

• transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms

To sidestep this confusion (it gets confusing when you speak to a cinical person) we used the more discrete term "hidden borderline" in our video.

Skippy

[TCarlisle]

I think a topic related to this is how the condition changes as time goes by. I think I have read many comments on these boards that as the BPD ages, the condition seems to worsen rather than improve. I think this makes sense. Someone with BPD basically lives their life convincing themself that nothing is their fault. And when they get in a relationship, they then start convincing themself that everything is the fault of their SO.

I would be pretty pee'd off if I really felt all my problems in life was because of every one around me (or one person). And the longer I lived thinking that way, the more pee'd off I would become.

It is sort of a vicious cycle where I think the BPD condition can actually feed itself and grow. Let's consider a "high" functioning BPD that is 25. This person is just barely old enough to be out in the "real world" and their condition of BPD has just started creating problems in their life. Maybe a DUI because of the drinking problem. Maybe job performance issues starting to appear. The BPD takes the attitude of "I wasn't too drunk, it was a setup by the cops" and "I am a perfect worker, my boss is just an a-hole". This starts the pattern of denial/blame.

A few years go by and the same person has lost 5 jobs. And their attitude is that every boss is just another A-hole. Now when they go to work at each new job, they don't see a chance to succeed because of a belief that their new boss is just the same a-hole with a new name and face. The same attitude about relationships. Every new boyfriend/girlfriend is just another a-hole that ruins the relationship and hurts them.

[Breakable]

I think a topic related to this is how the condition changes as time goes by. I think I have read many comments on these boards that as the BPD ages, the condition seems to worsen rather than improve. I think this makes sense. Someone with BPD basically lives their life convincing themself that nothing is their fault. And when they get in a relationship, they then start convincing themself that everything is the fault of their SO.

I would be pretty pee'd off if I really felt all my problems in life was because of every one around me (or one person). And the longer I lived thinking that way, the more pee'd off I would become.

It is sort of a vicious cycle where I think the BPD condition can actually feed itself and grow. Let's consider a "high" functioning BPD that is 25. This person is just barely old enough to be out in the "real world" and their condition of BPD has just started creating problems in their life. Maybe a DUI because of the drinking problem. Maybe job performance issues starting to appear. The BPD takes the attitude of "I wasn't too drunk, it was a setup by the cops" and "I am a perfect worker, my boss is just an a-hole". This starts the pattern of denial/blame.

A few years go by and the same person has lost 5 jobs. And their attitude is that every boss is just another A-hole. Now when they go to work at each new job, they don't see a chance to succeed because of a belief that their new boss is just the same a-hole with a new name and face. The same attitude about relationships. Every new boyfriend/girlfriend is just another a-hole that ruins the relationship and hurts them.

I think this is a good point. My next question would be: is it therefore better for a BPD to get help sooner rather than later? the general advice tends to be that BPDs have to help themselves and will react in a hostile way to suggestions they have a problem/should get therapy. but in my view, if the longer it goes on the worse they get, it might be a good idea to encourage them to get help before it's too late, while they are still vaguely considering the possibility that they need help and might just maybe be doing one or two little things wrong.

[TCarlisle]

I think this is a good point. My next question would be: is it therefore better for a BPD to get help sooner rather than later? the general advice tends to be that BPDs have to help themselves and will react in a hostile way to suggestions they have a problem/should get therapy. but in my view, if the longer it goes on the worse they get, it might be a good idea to encourage them to get help before it's too late, while they are still vaguely considering the possibility that they need help and might just maybe be doing one or two little things wrong.

I think as a general rule people are less open to change as they age. I think that BPD's are even more set in their personality style because of their lack of self awareness.

[Just Back for a Short Visit]

I agree with the general rule that people are less open to change as they age, but there are a lot of indications that those afflicted with BPD see their symptoms to some degree over time.  I see two possible reasons for this:  (1) the BPD individual learns to avoid certain situations that trigger outbursts or (2) the BPD individual learns to modify their thinking in some way to reduce the intensity of the outburst or eliminate it altogether in certain situations.  IMHO, it's probably a bit of both as a general trend. 

It depends upon the severity and yes, I'd guess there is a relative spectrum of BPD characteristics.  If you put three BPDs in an identical situation with the same opportunity to perceive a slight all three could react entirely differently.  One might threaten his/her perceived insultor with physical violence or self-injure.  One might throw an embarrassing tantrum or go into a bit of a rage.  The third might not even care, because that specific scenario isn't a trigger for that person.  The frequency or range of everyday events that would lead to an episode might be more severe for some than others as well. 

Those with the most severe cases tend to do a better job of rationalizing the situation than others.  At its worst, there is complete projection and blame on others.  It doesn't matter if the same relationship or job failure happens 1000 times, those at the severe end will never admit to anyone the problem lies with them, although I'd imagine that somewhere they know it does.  At the other end, there are those that know they have BPD, they accept that they act inappropriately, and they are seeking ways to change their thinking.  It doesn't mean that in an episode they won't fall back into unhealthy patterns and project, but they tend to accept what they've done to a large extent after the fact. 

My experience with an ex was somewhere in the middle.  She blamed her issues on other people.  She didn't know she had it, but she dropped hints that she knew at least some of the issues fell at her feet.  She alluded to the fact that she could be immature and "difficult at times".  She told me stories of how exes didn't trust her and thought she was overly flirty.  I suspect a lot of others in relationships got some derivation of this line:  "I'm so sorry.  I'm not normally like this in a relationship.  I just love you/connect with you so well, that I'm getting too emotional/a bit out of sorts... ."  The BPD is trying to blame the intensity or connection on the relationship, but both of you can see right through it.  They're really saying:  "I am like this in a relationship.  I don't want to be like this, and I was hoping this time would be different.  I hope you believe me when I tell you I'm not normally like this, because I'm afraid of losing you." 

As for confronting someone to get treatment to curtail the problem before it worsens... .

This is tricky.  I tend to think of BPD as an addiction to bad/illogical thinking patterns from a relatively early age that lead to problems with inappropriate behavior in adult life.  Loosely, it's not that different from other forms of addiction.  Some are more receptive to discussion than others, some need to hit bottom, and some simply never recover.  Here is the big difference:  with an alcoholic, you might be able to have some sort of intervention when they're sober.  It might work, and it might not.  You'd never have an intervention when they're drunk, because they wouldn't be receptive.  There is no clarity, so they could get angry, could turn into a weepy mess who then tries to drink a bottle of drano, etc.  With BPD, the person is only one moment away from losing clarity.  Even if you knew the person and their triggers ridiculously well, they are most likely "predictably unpredictable" because it comes with the territory.  How do you do this?  In my experience as a non, the only time I could even be cautiously optimistic that there would be clarity for the next hour or so was when she was coming off an outburst and was getting upset/apologetic in some indirect way for her behavior.  Even then, I couldn't be 100% sure that she was recognizing her behavior for what it was or that she was simply afraid of losing me and telling me things I wanted to hear.  If it was the latter, then she could have easily flown into another rage.  If it was the former, she might have been receptive at that moment.  She was relatively high functioning.  With someone who never apologizes or accepts some responsibility for their behavior, I don't know if there is ever a moment to bring this up. 

[Scott3764]

I thought my gf was more in the lite category, but after reading TaDay's post, I may have not experienced the full wrath because I never moved in with her. The guy she married left her after 1 year, but I think it had gotten pretty ugly after 6 months.

However, mine was not violent, but the few rage events I witnessed were really bad to be on the receiving end of.

So, can one assume, that the more intimate, and physically close to them you are on a daily basis cause a stronger reaction from them as opposed to keeping them at arm's length? I say this because I am the only guy who did not cohabitate with her and had the longest relationshipwith her by a noticable margin.

[JoannaK]

So, can one assume, that the more intimate, and physically close to them you are on a daily basis cause a stronger reaction from them as opposed to keeping them at arm's length? I say this because I am the only guy who did not cohabitate with her and had the longest relationshipwith her by a noticable margin.

I don't think that extreme physically violent behavior is a function of longevity of the relationship...   I think that some simply have more control or express the inner rage differently.  I was with my exh for 18 years, and we never had any physical altercations; never really any screaming and yelling fights... He was much more subtle.  That's why I think he was a "lite". 

[foiles]

 M. Scott Peck says in The Road Less Traveled "Few of us can escape being neurotic [take too much responsibility] or character disordered [take too little] to at least some degree (which is why essentially everyone can benefit from psychotherapy if he or she is seriously willing to participate in the process). The reason for this is that the problem of distinguishing what we are and what we are not responsible for in this life is one of the greatest problems of human existence.  It is never completely solved; for the entirety of our lives we must continually assess and reassess where our responsibilities lie in the ever-changing course of events... .  It is only a vast amount of experience and a lengthy and successful maturation that we gain the capacity to see the world and our place in it realistically, and thus are enabled to realistically assess our responsibility for ourselves and the world."

It almost seems as if it is our ability to face and see truth and reality and accept the pain of that that determines how disordered we are.  He also writes (and he may be quoting someone else) that all mental illness has it's roots in avoiding problems and legitimate suffering.  And in the end, that is what causes the most problems and suffering.  So none of us are perfect and all have defects of one sort or another. How to measure what constitutes 'lite' or diagnosable character disorders?   I'm sure the mental health experts grapple with this on a regular basis and criteria will change as time goes on. 

[msok]

I sat next to a psychiatrist yesterday at a dinner. Started discussing BPD. One interesting thing he mentioned... .as a female BPD ages they become less able to use their best asset... .their sexuality. And then they "hit bottom", like an addict. And realize how screwed up they are. Interesting... .

[peter chu]

Hi Peacebaby,

You are correct there are many forms of behavior depending on which schema a BPD is experiencing at a time.

If one has BPD meeting 5 of 9 DSM criteria, mathmatically, 5 of 9 combinations can be many.

3 of 9 can be a problem also if one has severe emptiness, fear of abandonment, mistrust as an examples, though not classfied as a BPD. 

You seem to know a lot about BPD.

I would like to ask you how can a BPD recover or become liter if there is no treatment, as over 95% of high functioning BPD will not seek treatment?   

Peter

[JoannaK]

And realize how screwed up they are. Interesting... .

   The first part of your statement is certainly true, msok, but many of them don't realize how screwed up they are.  People on this board talk abut difficult behaviors even when the BPD mom or dad is well into their 70's or 80's.

I would like to ask you how can a BPD recover or become liter if there is no treatment, as over 95% of high functioning BPD will not seek treatment?   

Peter, it is difficult for a BPD to recover if they don't see themselves as having any problems.  I would think that most of that population continues to engage in difficult behaviors, but they may be more subtle... .less acting out, more veiled threats and put downs.

[GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT]

GENERAL ANNOUNCEMENT This board is intended for general questions about BPD and other personality disorders, trait definitions, and related therapies and diagnostics. Topics should be formatted as a question. Please do not host topics related to the specific pwBPD in your life - those discussions should be hosted on an appropraite [L1] - [L4] board. You will find indepth information provided by our senior members in our workshop board discussions (click here).

[Randi Kreger]

The new DSM-5 now has a range or scale for each of the traits of BPD. The clinician can rate how much each trait applies to each person instead of just saying yes or no. Google DSM-5 and you'll see.Randi KregerRandi @Author, "The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder: New Tools and Techniques to Stop Walking on Eggshells"Available at www.

[Skip]

The new DSM-5 now has a range or scale for each of the traits of BPD. The clinician can rate how much each trait applies to each person instead of just saying yes or no.

Thanks for highlighting this important point.   

We have a discussion and links on the DSM 5 located here:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=114843.0

[agast84]

I am wondering if it is possible for someone to have many of the signs of BPD without the really scary stuff; violence toward self and others, promiscuous sex, and other things?

My W seems thsi way.

[FoolishOne]

I've read that there are 257 derivations of BPD... .that's quite a range!

[ilovelife]

I'm on this website because of my BPD ex partner, but once, not to long ago I would have considered myself BPD also. I feel like I fit all the main traits; deep fear of abandonment and also of getting close - the classic push pull, inability to regulate emotions, addictions, self-harming behaviors, looking for someone to save me, idolizing them, taking and taking and taking, and then throwing them away when they couldn't save me, black and white thinking, eating disorder. I didn't have the rage part of it... .or a lot of the other behaviors I see on here like cheating, drinking, destroying things... .but it was the best fit I could find for myself. I was hospitalized for suicidal behavior a few times, but never any diagnosis other then major depression. 

Although I know I have some lingering traits, like irrational fear of abandoment... .I feel like I have had a miracle of healing - meaning I don't feel that intense emptyness inside anymore, where all those behaviors come from. My life is amazingly different, I feel like and get feedback that I am a different person.  So, that made me think that maybe my stuff was more PTSD, and just looking similiar. When I got involved with my ex BPD, I felt like we understood eachother, because we understood that intense BPD feeling... .But, living with her showed me that if I am \ was BPD I am very mild comparitively.  And, I think she is mild on the whole spectrum too - definately high functioning and insightful.

I think the difference is that somehow I was able to really look at myself and look at my abuse, and deal with all the scary hard stuff that was underneath the BPD behaviors. But, most BPD's can't or aren't willing to do that.

[Randi Kreger]

I am wondering if it is possible for someone to have many of the signs of BPD without the really scary stuff; violence toward self and others, promiscuous sex, and other things?My W seems thsi way.

Yes, it is very possible. I have friends who have BPD who have never ever raged at me and have only been supportive.

[Blossom]

I am wondering if it is possible for someone to have many of the signs of BPD without the really scary stuff; violence toward self and others, promiscuous sex, and other things?

My W seems thsi way.

A diagnosis of BPD needn't require violence or aggression but for some, it may be a part of the Borderline behaviour. The person doesn't have to meet all the criteria to be diagnosed; neither does 'full blown' BPD necessitate the pwBPD being violent towards others.

[El Greco]

Yes, my ex is what they call a high functioning BPD, no selfharm or the other stuff what so  ever, but a bumpy ride nonetheless.

I asked the same question here the first time.

It might even be a Narcissistic personality disorder or a combination, it's really hard to define it.

[agast84]

I igured as much, but I jast wanted to see if anyone else understood what I have observed in life. Good to know I am not being silly.