BEHAVIORS: Objectifying the romantic partner

[BPDFamily.com]

Instead of being gas-lighted, a light bulb has gone off. "as long as you are doing what i want, you are good. if you are not, then you are bad." totally hit home with me. that is exactly how i have been made to feel. one time i made the mistake of telling my husband that i felt like his slave, which i do. now that you've explained that i've been objectified, it makes sense why he behaves the way he does. Thank you, Oceanheart!

[crazymade]

Instead of being gas-lighted, a light bulb has gone off. "as long as you are doing what i want, you are good. if you are not, then you are bad." totally hit home with me. that is exactly how i have been made to feel. one time i made the mistake of telling my husband that i felt like his slave, which i do. now that you've explained that i've been objectified, it makes sense why he behaves the way he does. Thank you, Oceanheart!

[pari]

This is so true.

I feel like I am center of his world, center of affection when he is in good mood and doormat when he is angry. He would make me feel like a queen when in good mood, load me up with compliments which feels great because I have never been so appreciated all my life and I see honestly in his words and eyes. Often if he is mad at something else, it comes out on me. I have even pointed it out to him. May be because we spend so much time together, so he vents it all out on me. Sometimes I do feel like an object or toy in his life which he keeps to entertain himself.

We are going through a rough phase these days. Hence, everything I do/write/say is always wrong.

It helps to know that this is not unique to me.  :

[sm15000]

Maybe recovery is just finally growing up... .  

This triggered me today because I remember my ex saying "I know what you're thinking. . .why don't you just grow up"

As for 'objectifying' (before I considered a PD). . .well I certainly felt devalued but what was most obvious is he turned into another person in his attitude towards women.  He became very objectifying of women full stop. . .in a sexual way.

He slept with multiple women, I believe he was using porn extensively. . .and our sex life became more 'porn' like.  He made crass and vulgar comments towards women. . .and once he saw me out with a friend and when approaching us shouted out "hey ladies, get your tits out".  Something, over 13 years I had never seen before to that extent although I must admit I always wondered if there was a dark side towards women in him.

He once wrote. . ."I turned into the man you wouldn't want me to be, and the man I don't want to be" . . .extremely sad

[Surrender]

TMost of the people I know with BPD, from the BPD forum, have big hearts and care very deeply for others.

What I have learned through my UBPD boyfriend is that he feels perhaps too much for people and the general condition of suffering. I think this is partly where all of the dysregulation comes from. He is able to empathize deeply because of his own suffering that he carries daily inside himself in a world where he feels generally rejected and invisible. Yet, the root always seems to be that he feels love for everyone and everything but alienated by people's actions that say the opposite of their words of love.

Consequently it is very rare when he tells me he loves me because he feels that the entire planet is a hypocrite when it comes to love. He feels people just say the words and live in action the opposite to what love is. So I hear him say that very rarely to me... . but when he does say it I know he means it.

Then there are the rages without filter spewing the worst possible insults and accusations so as to make the non want to leave. He doesn't see this as verbal abuse, in fact after he calms down in his mind he views what just occurred as just being expressive and venting. It is as though he doesn't have true recollection of the gravity of his behavior and is inflicting upon me the very thing that causes himself agony over the hypocritical condition of people and how they treat one another. A sort of double standard where he is taking that all out on me for some feeling of being dejected that he uses as an excuse.

It is so complex that I can hardly wrap my brain around it.

[Jo-Marie]

I think that the situation below is a result of the idealisation that can be so strong in a BPD, often about love.   The person the BPD loves becomes a "love object", and because love and a loving relationship is idealised, the whole idealised construct is at risk when a behaviour by a partner is less than ideal - the BPD feels "let down" or even that "love has been betrayed".


"Consequently it is very rare when he tells me he loves me because he feels that the entire planet is a hypocrite when it comes to love. He feels people just say the words and live in action the opposite to what love is. So I hear him say that very rarely to me... .  but when he does say it I know he means it.

Then there are the rages without filter spewing the worst possible insults and accusations so as to make the non want to leave. He doesn't see this as verbal abuse, in fact after he calms down in his mind he views what just occurred as just being expressive and venting. It is as though he doesn't have true recollection of the gravity of his behavior and is inflicting upon me the very thing that causes himself agony over the hypocritical condition of people and how they treat one another. A sort of double standard where he is taking that all out on me for some feeling of being dejected that he uses as an excuse.

It is so complex that I can hardly wrap my brain around it."

[unicorn2014]

My BPDh is very childlike.

When he used to get really upset/disregulated he would say if he only could show me how bad I was I would suddenly see it his way and do good. Even though I hadn't done anything at all to him.

He would get triggered by a stranger and totally flip out and I would try to rein him in and then he would turn all the anger at me.

Now if this starts to happen instead of me becoming the enemy he sees me as on his side, the trust is built and secure now and nothing really escalates anymore.

The tools I learned here changed our relationship. I still see the BPD behaviors but now he seems to be in more control of them and is way more trusting of me and us than ever before. I will not be abused by anyone esp him.

He does seem to idolize me too much though. At night while sleeping he will wake me up to tell me all sorts of wonderful things which I LOVE but I wonder if that is part of the disorder too? He used to do this before we got better together but it was tainted by the constant insults and huge fights.

I can totally relate to this. It's like I don't care what he thinks of me after he's verbally abused me. It's almost as if I want him to stop talking. I wish he could see how little I care what he thinks of me after he's verbally abused me but if I would try to point this out to him, he wouldn't want to hear it.

[unicorn2014]

TMost of the people I know with BPD, from the BPD forum, have big hearts and care very deeply for others.

Oh I can totally relate and frankly I am sick and tired of it all. How are we and why are we supposed to care about these people?

What I have learned through my UBPD boyfriend is that he feels perhaps too much for people and the general condition of suffering. I think this is partly where all of the dysregulation comes from. He is able to empathize deeply because of his own suffering that he carries daily inside himself in a world where he feels generally rejected and invisible. Yet, the root always seems to be that he feels love for everyone and everything but alienated by people's actions that say the opposite of their words of love.

Consequently it is very rare when he tells me he loves me because he feels that the entire planet is a hypocrite when it comes to love. He feels people just say the words and live in action the opposite to what love is. So I hear him say that very rarely to me... .  but when he does say it I know he means it.

Then there are the rages without filter spewing the worst possible insults and accusations so as to make the non want to leave. He doesn't see this as verbal abuse, in fact after he calms down in his mind he views what just occurred as just being expressive and venting. It is as though he doesn't have true recollection of the gravity of his behavior and is inflicting upon me the very thing that causes himself agony over the hypocritical condition of people and how they treat one another. A sort of double standard where he is taking that all out on me for some feeling of being dejected that he uses as an excuse.

It is so complex that I can hardly wrap my brain around it.

I totally understand it and frankly it makes me want to stop caring. How and why are we supposed to care about people who are so abusive?

[KeepCalm]

So you are saying that we can be viewed more as objects who serve a need, than as people who should be cared for and respected? yeah, I can see that when my uBPbf is dysregulated and in total defense mode, but when he is calm then he is very considerate and kind - and it seems to be genuine.

I know that validation has made a huge difference in calming him down - I wonder how our beginning to take care of ourselves by taking time outs will impact their thinking. Will they learn to see us as deserving if we refuse to accept poor treatment?

Hi united for now

I totally agree with your question and would like to  know if there is any answer / solution / fix. I know that in order to take care of my uBPbf I first need  to take care of myself. So when we fought two days ago, I decided  to take some time-out and had  a spontaneous get-together with some close friends. When he found out, that triggered another episode. I can see that he views it as betrayal, and he said that I must be false as I couldn't possibly have been sad after the first fight if I was busy organizing a "party" as he called it. But how else am I supposed to have taken care of myself?  I don't know how to validate his feelings in this situation. Any advice would be welcome!

[unicorn2014]

So you are saying that we can be viewed more as objects who serve a need, than as people who should be cared for and respected? yeah, I can see that when my uBPbf is dysregulated and in total defense mode, but when he is calm then he is very considerate and kind - and it seems to be genuine.

I know that validation has made a huge difference in calming him down - I wonder how our beginning to take care of ourselves by taking time outs will impact their thinking. Will they learn to see us as deserving if we refuse to accept poor treatment?

Hi united for now

I totally agree with your question and would like to  know if there is any answer / solution / fix. I know that in order to take care of my uBPbf I first need  to take care of myself. So when we fought two days ago, I decided  to take some time-out and had  a spontaneous get-together with some close friends. When he found out, that triggered another episode. I can see that he views it as betrayal, and he said that I must be false as I couldn't possibly have been sad after the first fight if I was busy organizing a "party" as he called it. But how else am I supposed to have taken care of myself?  I don't know how to validate his feelings in this situation. Any advice would be welcome!

I've experienced that kind of thing too and I would say don't engage with his feelings, just go on about with your day. He's going to need to emotionally regulate himself. You could just tell him you understand he's upset you went out with your friends and you're sorry he's having a hard time. There's a great acronym in SWOE called JADE, don't justify, apologize, defend or explain. I try to live by that.

[eprogeny]

I just know how helpful it has been in my own growth to start valuing other people not for what I can get from them, but for who they are - flaws and all. It's been a joyful discovery and has enriched my life and that of the people I love. What better could I ask for?

Hi Ocean.  Thank you so much for your openness on these forums.  I have read many of your posts and feel like I am learning so much about my exBPDgf's perspective, and it is helping me to heal from our breakup. 

I have some question for you if you don't mind... .

When did you know you were using people in this way?  Were you always aware you did this or was this something you learned in your recovery process? 

When you have the stresses that lead to an episode of dysregulation and this behavior comes out in you, how long does it take for you to realize it - and what is the best way someone in your life to deal with it effectively when it happens?

Thank you, again, for all you post.

[obliv326]

Hi!

This has been very useful and helpful. I've had a relationship with a PwBPD for almost exactly a year, and I've had all manner of things that have confused the hell out of me. The idea of objectification seems to make some sense.

I'll put a few of these out there and see if you can make head or tails out of it.

One of the biggest issues I had was that she always kept me at a certain length from her. We met online, and she lived in another state, so physically we were apart anyway. She showed all the signs of interest... .We were flirty, she would be in contact everyday, shared stories about our lives, BUT... .

She didn't want to give me her phone number, or arrange to meet in person. We talked a lot about being intimate, but when I had a chance to visit, she simply avoided the question until I told her I had to make a decision, and then she made up a bunch of reasons why she wouldn't know if she'd be free and wouldn't want to commit. So I didn't go.

Since we met online, she had been using a different name. She told me her username was her real name, which I was pretty certain it wasn't... .And I was right. In December, after we'd been in a relationship for a couple months officially, she finally told me her first name when I was offering to help her because she needed money to get her car fixed. She didn't tell me her last name, although I leather it later when I got a receipt from PayPal. I didn't tell her I knew it. She also said outright that she was worried I was offering to send money so I could learn her name.

She came home for Christmas and we made plans to get together, but she had her best friend come along to a dinner. I was okay with it. I figured she had been that reticent already and if it would help earn her trust, then why not?

I finally got her phone number and address in March. I was going to send her some things I had gotten from a friend of mine that I thought she'd like. When I asked for her last name to put on the package, she lied and gave me a fake name.

Later that month, she came home for spring break. We had discussed getting together, but she never made any plans. We finally had a big blow up when I asked about meeting and she had plans for everyday. She had also not told me when she was coming or going, and I thought she had completely filled her schedule and was trying to avoid seeing me. I made an ultimatum. She didn't respond, and we were through. That was Tuesday

In Saturday she went to a sex club, met a guy, played with him, gave him her number, saw him the next day, called him regularly on the phone, talked all about the encounter on social media (there was no indication I was alive on social media). Obviously this made me feel terrible. My feeling was that she saw me as a creep or stalker or something.

Me managed to sort of reconnect afterward. I had been clued in by someone that she sounded like she might have BPD, so I started learning about it and trying to use the tools.

At one point, some friends of mine accosted her for her behavior, which had gotten reckless and reprehensible. She said that since they were my friends that somehow I was the reason. She acnowlwdged that I had done nothing wrong, and that it was unfair, but she decided she needed "space", which was just another word for punishing me with the silent treatment. She said she cared about me and it was going to be hard on her too, but she needed space and "silence".

After 6 months se reached out, told me I hadn't been forgotten, and that I was still on her kind. We've been in some contact ever since.

Last week, she was telling me that she was extremely stressed bc she was strapped and had to move in with her mother (the things my friends had said had apparently caused her to leave her job and move back here over the summer). Since her birthday is today, I told her that I would take her to dinner, give her a little money, maybe fill up her gas tank. She agreed. It would be the first time we had ever been together alone.

The day we were supposed to meet, she waited until an hour after we were supposed to be together to give me some excuse about a friend going through a breakup and asking if we could do it the next day. Since she had agreed to meet Thursday, I had made plans Friday, so that wouldn't work. I told her so, asked her to just meet when she could. She said that I was trying to "control how she spends her time", that she thought the meeting was "flexible", and that she "wasn't obligated. (She) hadn't signed anything"

So I guess I'm wondering if you can shed any light on why this might be happening? She actually talks to me now and will tell me about how stressed she is. I guess it's kind of good hat she trusts me with that, and with other personal information. But I have a really hard time not feeling deeply hurt about the fact that she will seemingly do anything to avoid me... .But a guy in a sex club? Oh, he's fine! Completely trustworthy. She doesn't seem to get how much that bothers me.

I don't mind being someone she talks to when she is stressed, but that's not the relationship I want with her. I know that, before I found out about BPD and how to use some of the tools, I pretty much did everything wrong. I was very invalidating, JADEd a lot, and I'm sure she feels stressed and judged talking to me... .But she keeps talking to me and bringing me back into her life.

I told her, after she flaked on dinner, that I was unwilling to be what I had been before. I would not accept a "text only" relationship with her. If she wants me in her life then we communicate like normal people. (I used DEARMAN, so it wasn't as harsh as what I just wrote). She wrote me back yesterday, kind of apologized and told me about something else that was stressing her out. We talked for a few minutes, and when I said something that mentioned that I had feelings for her, she had to go to bed. That was fine, as it was late. I felt pretty good about th exchange.

Only she didn't go to bed. She "dirty talked" with some guy for another two hours and bragged about it on social media. That didn't make me feel great, but at least by reaching out it seems like she knows that she was rude. And since my message was very clear, hopefully she understands that it has to progress because doing otherwise affects me.

Anyway, if you can shed some light on why she might be treating me this way, I would really appreciate it... .And if you know how to escape the"stress guy" ghetto so I get to be someone she wants around at other times too, that would help.

Thank you for your posts, though. They've been a real help opening my eyes... .Also, I've told much of this story on the relationship board. They suggested I might be able to find answers in other parts of the site, which is why I'm asking here.

But again... .Thanks for sharing your story and your POV! It has meant a lot to me in just the few hours since I found it!

[Imad]

Here is a list of examples of neediness of a BPD

1. Acting from a belief that you don't care about her that only emerges after she has secured a permanent relationship commitment.
2. Chronic criticism of your behavior or devaluation of you as a person.
3. Acting from a strong belief or sense that you are controlling her.
4. Unwillingness to take on shared chores or responsibilities in her relationship.
5. Chronic low-grade illness that gets in the way of normal relationship activities.
6. Expressions of entitlement or a sense that she deserves more than her share.
7. Expressions of feeling like a victim.
8. Behavior that looks like punishment or revenge towards you.
9. Expressions that you are not taking care of her emotions, don't care about her feelings or don't care about her as a person.
10. Excessive or chronic irritability.
11. Excessive jealousy or unwarranted accusations of infidelity.
12. Excessive demands for your attention that interfere with your professional or private life.
13. Expressions of fear or statements of inability to handle everyday situations.
14. Crying jags without a reason identified.
15. Expressions of a desire to be taken care of like a child.
16. Disparaging comments about your extended family and friends.
17. The desire for limitations on your private life outside of the relationship.
18. Controlling behavior, either manipulatively or through bullying or use of guilt.
19. Rage attacks.
20. Quick mood changes with an amnesia-like quality where she doesn't seem to remember why she felt the way she did moments, hours or days ago.
21. Chronic lying or distorting of the truth or shifting of blame from self to others to bolster her self-image.
22. Extreme dependence on you for her emotional well being.
23. A strong belief or sense that you are not acting appropriately or are not worthy of her.
24. Excessive threats to leave the relationship or declarations that the relationship is over followed by reconciliation or acting as though the threats had not been made.
 

[Cocoa86]

What a great discussion!

 In speaking with my H ( also recovered from BPD), he says what OH says... when he was "out there emotionally" he was in a base, primitive state of fear and emotional agony. He would see me as a person to be terrified of... what I would do to him... .yet would reach out and demand in his way, for me to "make it right" by screaming, yelling, thrashing, fetal position... .etc etc. He said it was impossible for him to see me, as a wife, friend, lover, support person... but yea, as an object, usually an evil one, or as someone who could take away the agony. When he was not dysregulated emotionally, he saw me as who I was in his life, as a person...

Interesting!

Steph

Reading this touch me.  It describes my  feelings so well.   Exactly
how I see people close to me.  It's a emotional rollercoaster.

[Cocoa86]

Here is a list of examples of neediness of a BPD

1. Acting from a belief that you don't care about her that only emerges after she has secured a permanent relationship commitment.
2. Chronic criticism of your behavior or devaluation of you as a person.
3. Acting from a strong belief or sense that you are controlling her.
4. Unwillingness to take on shared chores or responsibilities in her relationship.
5. Chronic low-grade illness that gets in the way of normal relationship activities.
6. Expressions of entitlement or a sense that she deserves more than her share.
7. Expressions of feeling like a victim.
8. Behavior that looks like punishment or revenge towards you.
9. Expressions that you are not taking care of her emotions, don't care about her feelings or don't care about her as a person.
10. Excessive or chronic irritability.
11. Excessive jealousy or unwarranted accusations of infidelity.
12. Excessive demands for your attention that interfere with your professional or private life.
13. Expressions of fear or statements of inability to handle everyday situations.
14. Crying jags without a reason identified.
15. Expressions of a desire to be taken care of like a child.
16. Disparaging comments about your extended family and friends.
17. The desire for limitations on your private life outside of the relationship.
18. Controlling behavior, either manipulatively or through bullying or use of guilt.
19. Rage attacks.
20. Quick mood changes with an amnesia-like quality where she doesn't seem to remember why she felt the way she did moments, hours or days ago.
21. Chronic lying or distorting of the truth or shifting of blame from self to others to bolster her self-image.
22. Extreme dependence on you for her emotional well being.
23. A strong belief or sense that you are not acting appropriately or are not worthy of her.
24. Excessive threats to leave the relationship or declarations that the relationship is over followed by reconciliation or acting as though the threats had not been made.
 

Describes me too well

[Adventurer006]

This is very interesting and I believe resonates to my current situation.  I am currently not in a good state in my relationship with my wife.  It could be related to neediness.  My wife has been seemingly starving for attention.  I didn’t seem to be able to give her enough and I wasn’t extremely engaged.  Things had then turned to rage, which she has been raging out on me for about 3 days now.  I’m wondering how I could have maybe satisfied this neediness better. I will have to admit my well has been running a bit dry with her lately as well.  The cycles can be exhausting.

[Couscous]

This is very interesting and I believe resonates to my current situation.  I am currently not in a good state in my relationship with my wife.  It could be related to neediness.  My wife has been seemingly starving for attention.  I didn’t seem to be able to give her enough and I wasn’t extremely engaged.  Things had then turned to rage, which she has been raging out on me for about 3 days now.  I’m wondering how I could have maybe satisfied this neediness better. I will have to admit my well has been running a bit dry with her lately as well.  The cycles can be exhausting.

No, you cannot satisfy her neediness because the “need” is insatiable. She is having what’s called a narcissistic rage because your “failure” to satisfy her insatiable need for attention has triggered a narcissistic injury. But this is her problem to deal with, not yours. Best of luck to you.