how do you cut your child out in a kind way

[whiletheseasonspass]

I can't do this anymore.  I can't do it.  How do you explain to a BPD who thinks it is all ME that I need to cut her out?  I don't want to cut her out but I can't do it anymore. 

Meanwhile- I don't know how I could live with myself if something happened to her after I cut her out-

I want her to get help.  But she never will. Because it is not her that needs fixing- it is ME. 

How do you tell someone that they do this and that- when they think the problem is all you.  How do you tell someone that they need help when they think it is YOU that needs the help? 

How do I extract myself from this?  I can't do it anymore. It is hard enough to know that my only child has this terrible disease... .I know that there is something wrong with her brain chemistry.  There has to be for the way she distorts the world and words and the love I continually show her.

My heart is so broken and I know I am in grief as I realize what this is all about. 

I can't believe this has happened.  That this is happening.  I know people who are lousy human beings yet  the kids are IN their lives and go shopping with their mothers and show up for holidays and do not treat their mothers the way mine has treated me.  These kids do not hold grudges against the world and let me tell you- I know of  kids who grew up in lousy circumstances who still came out okay.  I know one in particular-and that would be me.  I had a horrible upbringing. 

Yes.  I made some mistakes with my D but I was 10,000 times a better parent to my D than what I had. 

Anyway- this kind of thing-this way a child treats a parent - is something a mother never gets over - and it is innate to want to "save" our children- help them leave the nest.  But now I feel that I need to save me and that feels right but it also feels wrong. 

And I am scared to do this.

But I can't do this anymore.  I can't deal with the crazy making.  Mostly I can't deal with the way my D hates me so much and lets me know it in her gas-lighting ways.  I can't deal with her blame. I can't deal with the way she revises stories.  I can't deal with the way she tries to bait me- engage me into arguments so she can pick out what she needs to prove herself right about me.   I can't deal with the way she needs to break my spirit. 

I have to fight hard to not believe the things she says about me.  I can't do the tug of war any more inside myself.


I feel like it is her or me.  And what right do I have to pick me?  Do I have that right? 

I guess  ? I will never have HER blessing to pick me... .quite the opposite.  She will character assassinate me big time but she has been doing this for years.  Or trying to. 

I will never have her blessing however to BE me if I keep her in my life.  I will never have her love no matter how much I have shown her love even when she has beaten me up verbally.  Always hoping for her to GET IT... .that I love her.

Anyway... .I don't know how to do this.  I don't want to hurt her.  She already ( according to what I have learned about BPD_ hurts inside so much.  But I can't do this anymore.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lbjnltx]

dear whiletheseasonspass,

remind me again how old your d is.  my BPD is only 12 but i totally relate to everything you posted.  on thursday i went to t and left d at home because i was so upset.  i have become resentful because i continually do all kinds of things to try to show her i love her but she still treats me like hammered crap.  so i told her i'm not doing it anymore.   no more favors, no more doing your chores and giving you all the allowance $, no more buying all your special snacks for you that you love.  from now on you will have to fulfill responsibilities to earn any privilege and any allowance.

d went straight to her room and started piling mp3 players, cell phone, portable dvd player, dishnet card, on and on, even pillows and blankets (she says "being warm is a privilege".  whether she fulfills her responsibilities or not is up to her and i will feel better about it either way.

best wishes

x

lbjnltx

[olive]

 dear whiletheseasonspass,

I'm so sorry for what you're dealing with and the agony you're going through.  My heart goes out to you.  I haven't posted in awhile and reading your post really hit home with me. When we hold our babies for the first time, we never dreamed we'd be experiencing the things we do.   Sometimes it feels like you're darned if you do or darned if you don't. 

Although, my daughter is getting DPT treatment, she still has a long road ahead of her.  My daughter doesn't live with me, but whenever I see her number come up on my phone, I brace myself for what she has to say.  No telling what could be coming out of her mouth.  I'm usually her main target of attack or the person she calls when her world is falling apart.  It's so difficult dealing with her that I always feel like it's a balancing act and I'm constantly on pins and needles.  I get so frustrated with her and myself because I just don't know the best way to deal with her many mood swings.  No matter what I do or don't do, it either seems like it's not enough or not the right thing with her.  When I distance myself from her, I start feeling guilty that I'm letting her down and that I should be there for her because I do feel responsible for her problems because she is my daughter.  I constantly replay in my head what I could have done differently when she was younger to prevent her from having these problems, but she was always a bit off even as a baby, but of course she blames me because I was a single parent who had to work many hours.  She puts the blame on me and really doesn't take any responibilty for her actions.

Well, hang in there and keep posting and know that there are many here who understand and can relate to what you're going through.

Hugs,

Olive

[bjewels11]

I understand it is so hard.    I am lost myself and main just turned 18 and left out of girl School.  My sister took her in and less than took weeks is sending her off to my aunt and uncle.  She was suppose to take her and help her (she is a psycologist) and is sending her off.    Dont' worry she says they have raised 4 kids.  Does she not understand the hell I have been thru.   I do not wish that on anyone.    I love her but can not take her back yes I feel guilty about not taking her yes I fell guilty about not telling others the whole story.  Yes aunt and uncle have heard bits and pieces but I do not think they realize she is BPD, or have heard of it.   Heck two different therapist said she was just probable oppsitional defient.    Have my husband saying do not worry they have raised 4 kids and they will due fine.  He is also saying that she was locked up for 15 months and has grown up but I am still scared of her and the stuff she has put me thru.   One parts wants to take her in and the other part just says no for your own safety.  Then I feel guilty for pushing her off on others and not taking her in.   She is enought to drive me crazy and will do the opposite of what I say or due.   She also is knows how to push my buttons and does her best to do it.    The guilt is killing me.   I can not take extra time off work right know,  We have a planned vacation next week and I will come back early to run her errands and help her a job.   I am so stress out right know that I am about ready to lose it.                                                                           

[lbjnltx]

dear bjewels,

sorry to hear that you are so highly stressed right now. sounds like the perfect time to take a vacation, hay ! didn't you say that was coming next week.  great timing!

last thursday i was so stressed out that i had to make some decisions about how i was going to treat my d in the future.  i told her no more doing for you what you can do for yourself, no more buying you special treats, no more giving you $ you don't earn... until you can be responsible and stop treating me like hammered crap. no more.  suprisingly she didn't get at all upset. no response from her at all.  go figure... .

my d is hi functioning and has also been dx with odd.  some days i just want to disappear into the clouds... .

have a great time on your vacation don't worry about what will happen when you get back.  it will all still be there waiting for you (unfortunately).

x

lbjnltx

[Sunshinesmom]

Sorry you're having such a tough time.  It's just part of the rollercoaster ride that BPD takes us on.  Maybe, rather than cutting your d off completely, you could just take a temporary mental and/or physical break from her.  Then, you won't have to feel so guilty.  You still love your d.  You just need a break to gather up strength to persevere.  I know things seem awful right now and your d seems like a monster.  I understand.  However, I'm sure that she has some good qualities way down in there somewhere like a sense of humor or something.  Try to focus on what you love about your d for a bit.  That may help defuse the difficult stuff.  Take care.

S.

[renewed]

  Hi Whiletheseasonspass, It was about a year ago I was going thru hell. Same as you. It took a horrible incident to finally have me cut the strings. It was soo hard and I have been recovering for a year now. It was as if my D had died and I grieved that way. Now I am on the other side... .I cannot imagine the drama I have missed... .The verbal and physical abuse I no longer have in my life. I have a mothers broken heart but my soul is much happier. I feel for me it was a matter of survival. I had no choice but to seperate myself from her.I had done as much as I could and It was getting worse. I feel your pain and give you my support... .  Dianne

[everydaydeco]

Oh God, whiletheseasonspass,  your despair and pain really come through in your post.

I guess the only thing I know to do so far is reach out for support... .but not from the BPD... .I have therapist appointments now... .I think of it as rent-a-friend.  I have been so isololated with all this for so many years that I don't have any close friends.  Anyway, there's also Al anon... .Just google it to find meetings near you.  Even if your d doesn't have alcohol problems, al anon is kind of relevant  In fact, it's exactly on the mark... .it's about taking care of yourself in the face of something over which you have no control.  Do you know about it?

Then there is always just plain getting out: classes, whatever.  You can go undercover NC.  Like just start focussing on yourself, without announcing to d.

I know how insane I have become trying to follow my d(42 years)  down the rabbit hole.  And yes, same thing, don't want to lose contact.  Once lost any contact at all for a year.  And in the end, she didn't call me.  I called her.  I tried several places and kept trying until I found her.

But just in everyday life , it's very hard to take all that verbal abuse, and not start believing it, don't you find?  But being with other people, even for a short period makes me better right away.  Like putting a wilted daisy in water and refrigerating for a little while.

I think that's what this board tries to do... .with some success, of course, but the best is getting face to face contact.

[lbjnltx]

everdaydeco,

there will always be someone here for you, anytime, anyday, no matter what.


x

lbjnltx

[Sunshinesmom]

I have found that, in the past, I tended to be over emotional about and over involved in my 27 year old d's life.  I needed to learn to let go and let God.  One of the things that I've found very helpful is an audiobook by Byron Katie.  It's called "The Truth Behind Addiction."  There are three separate clips where Ms. Katie helps clients consider a new perspective in how they relate to others by having them do "The Work." 

My daughter has a drug problem, which is why I listened to the audiobook in the first place.  However, I found it tremendously useful in helping me to give my daughter ownership of her life and problems while continuing to feel love and compassion for her.  Even if your BPD doesn't have a drug problem, I highly recommend a listen if you're open to a new way of looking at your situation with your BPD.  In particular, I recommend the third clip in which Ms Katie helps a father and daughter do "The Work."  However, the other clips were helpful as well.  The audiobook is 2.4 hours in length.  I was feeling particularly vulnerable this weekend and experienced tremendous relief after listening to the audiobook again. 

S.

[lostinspace2]

But I can't do this anymore.  I can't deal with the crazy making.  Mostly I can't deal with the way my D hates me so much and lets me know it in her gas-lighting ways.  I can't deal with her blame. I can't deal with the way she revises stories.  I can't deal with the way she tries to bait me- engage me into arguments so she can pick out what she needs to prove herself right about me. I can't deal with the way she needs to break my spirit.

 


whiletheseasonspass, I so understand every word of the above I could have written it myself. My family have just come through the most dreadful smear campaign with no way of defending ourselves. She has never done anything so bad before, (to the best of my knowledge) we are all still reeling from the shock. She had already cut us off before we became aware of the slander. That way she doesn't have to account for any of it, face to face. I have always brought my 3 children up to tell the truth and be accountable when they were dishonest. When the lies started at school (15) I would talk to her to try and get her to understand the damage she was causing among her classmates. Even when she was left friendless it was always someone else's fault, she was being bullied, no one liked her etc.

My daughter has cut herself out of our lives after being so dependent for 26 years and I must say it is a great relief. It has given me the breathing space I needed to question all the crazymaking and find this site. I can't believe I have been so naive always hoping that with maturity she would change. To be honest knowing what I know now and my, over 40 years plus, experience with my uBPD sister I really don't want her back in my life in a hurry. I will always love her as my daughter but I could never trust her again.

My approach to my daughter will be exactly the same as the one I have had to adopt with my sister... .zero tolerance. I know from bitter past experience that this disorder gets worse with age, they do change, less drama but they become more vicious and self-absorbed. My mother went to an early grave because of the stress she had endured with my father NPD but more so in later years from my sister. I couldn't begin to tell you the terrible way she treated her own mother. Mum accepted it all with gentleness and good patience but all the time it was eating her up inside and led to her premature death at 63. I will not let my daughter do this to me and she knows it. Everyone must do what they think is best for them but my D will never live under my roof again. If the relationship breaks up she will be back and I will help her find accomodation but things will never be the same between us again. I have come out of denial and the reality is horrid but I am learning to 'let go and let God'.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[nothingupmysleeve]

I worry about this too, when my SD reaches adulthood (she's only 14 right now.) Sometimes it's been so bad my H and I have discussed him moving into an apartment with her M-F close to where he works, to reduce my stress as I have been the target of her rages the past two years. He told her this a month or so ago, and then she reconciled with me, and turned her rages onto him (he's a rock though and says he can take it, but it's been just as bad because he gets so angry and is easily baited into arguing with her- and she looks for any and every thing she can to piss him off.)

Anyway... .

Her UBPD mom has nearly totally disengaged since we got custody of my SD a few years ago. They cannot spend more than 8 hours together a week right now, and BM cancels often last minute leaving us (me) to deal with her. This contributes to my SD's symptoms of course, but that doesn't make it any easier being the person who has been a mom to her these past 5 years. I have been her "hero" for a few of those, the first few before she flipped on me and went from idolization to totally despising me and blaming me for all that is wrong with the world as she perceives it.

I can tell you that this site as well as many hours spent posting on another for stepmoms, has helped me tremendously in letting go (and letting God someone said above- I LIKE that one!) We cannot give them happiness or take it from them. That responsibility does rest with them. I keep reminding myself of my BPD/BP friend who comes and goes from my life. I let her come and welcome her, then let her go when she takes off from me, without attachment. Much harder with a child I have raised as my own, but I hope to one day get there.

My nephew is likely BP and self medicates. My sister has had such a tough road with him (he's in his late 20's now) because he tries so hard to convince everyone he is ok, but all the while complaining about how hard his life is and why he can't get a break. She also attends AL-anon meetings and keeps telling me I should because we were raised by a child of an alcoholic, my father, who didn't drink much, but still had many issues and was full of anger and the need to control. We have both taken on some of that, as well as my mom's co-dependent personality. That last component has made it highly difficult for me to let go with my SD, and is a lot of what Al-anon helps with.

Goodluck. And remember, you know if you are a good person, good mother, worthy of being treated better. Hold onto that. And do not let her warped perception define you for yourself. (Words I am trying hard to live by myself.)

[Fartnsniff]

If you don’t take care of yourself, you can’t take care of anyone else.  My daughter had both my wife and I believing that we were paranoid and delusional for many years.  I actually had undisputable proof of her sick behavior and when I presented it to her; she informed me that I was the one with the problem.  The scary part is that most of my mind wanted to believe her and a small part actually did.

The bottom-line for me is that I have to trust my own instincts.  If I suspect something, it is true until proven otherwise.  Don’t ask me for trust or second chances, they are all used up. 

My daughter is 15, and my house is set up like a play pen for a very large 2 year old, since that is what she is.  She is in treatment; she goes to a special school; we have in home support, but I have little to no hope that she will ever get any better.  I am simply putting out fires for another 3 years and attempting to limit the damage she does to the rest of the family.  There is no doubt in my mind that as soon as she is legally permitted to leave, she will.

[renewed]

After 38 years of caring for my daughter I am her worst enemy. No regrets on her part cause she is not the one who is wrong it is me... .and her whole family. No thoughts of all the sacrifices I made ... .Money... .time... .doing without so she could have what she wanted. Loss of relationships ... .jobs... .etc. Bailing her out at every turn. Now she says I only harmed her... .I am the worst mother in the world. My child did not come with an instruction book, I did the very best I could. I always put her first till I was squeezed dry. She doesn't care... .she hates me. Now I am putting myself first for the first time in my life. I am worth it. If she ever sees her life in a responsible way I will be greatly relived but I don't see that happening. Over the years she just got more self absorbed and cruel and I became her whipping post. She would manipulate her T's to see things her way. Honestly all the things she says about me   are made up in her mind ... .half truths are twisted and spewed out as my faults. She wants to destroy me and I will not have it. I am going forward to whatever life has to offer me and I cannot look back with regret, I have done my best and It did not work for her. I will always love her with all my heart but I am done with the abuse. If this seems harsh I'm sorry but belive me it is nothing compared to what she put me and my family through. I just pray for her and myself to find happiness in our own ways.

[nkisseloff]

I can understand how you feel.  We recently made our son leave our home.  He used our credit card without our permission and charged over 300.  It wouldn't have mattered if it was 5 dollars because stealing is stealing.   I packed his bags and brought them to the townhouse that we have.  We hadn't been able to sell it because of the economy.  We let him use a car.  He works at the grocery store.  We take money for water, electric, car insurance and cell phone.  So far each week he has run the account down to zero.  I know he has applied for a credit card.  Everything we agree on he doesn't do.  He always justifies it surrounding his needs.  I am in agony a lot of the time but I am trying to only talk about what I want to talk about.  My husband wants to be tougher, like kick him out of there because he is not keeping it clean like he promised.  He wants to take all his money every week and control everything.  That would be okay with me if my son wanted that too, but he doesn't understand he even has a problem with his spending.  He's tried to close our joint account and has already opened another one.

He's always talking about going from point A to point Z without taking the steps in between.  I am trying to keep myself healthy.  He tried college last semester but flunked half the classes and had to come home.  We live in Fl and he was in NY.  It's just been one thing after another.

I can't take it when he lives here.  He is dirty and sloppy and eats all our food and doesn't leave any for anyone else.  Then he'll cook something for all of us and think that makes up for everything.  Although it breaks my heart that I can't have him live here it is much more peaceful without him.  I'm trying all the tips I've read about in Stop Walking on Eggshells.  We've been dealing with him as a person with bipolar disorder since he was 11 but I think the symptoms of BPD are much more what he does and how he thinks.  He is on medication for mood stabilization and OCD so I don't know what life would be like without meds.

Anyway, it's been a while since I've been in a group and I'm sorry for the pain, but totally understand.

elosie

[whiletheseasonspass]

Thank you all so much for your heartfelt responses to my post.  I have been reading and re-reading what you all wrote.  I'm  sorry that I have not responded yet until now.  Yet I am so appreciative of all of your replies. 

BECAUSE you understand so much as some of your own posts have been describing your own pain my     goes out to you. 

It is so strange to be sharing such pain- and reaching out for help and feeling validated and helped by what you all wrote and saying that by being a member of this forum with such people as you all that  I do not feel so alone in this yet it sounds so much like misery likes company but it is not that at all.  Thank goodness for forums like this - well run and with such wonderful people writing in who deserve a lot better. 

We come here for solace and help to move on (trickiest of all when you know that there is no bright light on the horizon) or to learn HOW to live with our pain and more.  It sure would be a lot nicer to be part of a forum for people who are there for fun things - like photography buffs or people who love to share recipes or hobbiests- etc. 

For now- thank you.  I have much more to say as some of the posts I want to address particularly.


whiletheseasonspass

[whiletheseasonspass]

He always justifies it surrounding his needs. 

elosie

My D is only about her own needs.  Period.  And like your son she justifies everything surrounding her own needs as you put it. That is such a huge part of this whole thing.

After 38 years of caring for my daughter I am her worst enemy. No regrets on her part cause she is not the one who is wrong it is me... .No thoughts of all the sacrifices I made ... .Money... .time... .doing without so she could have what she wanted. Loss of relationships ... .jobs... .etc. Bailing her out at every turn. ... .She doesn't care... .she hates me. Over the years she just got more self absorbed and cruel and I became her whipping post. She would manipulate her T's to see things her way. Honestly all the things she says about me are made up in her mind ... .half truths are twisted and spewed out as my faults. I have done my best and It did not work for her.

Every single thing you wrote in this quote fits my D exactly.  EVERYTHING.  The part where your D told you that all that you did - harmed her - is so twisted-.  But that is certainly the illness- i.e. taking the goodness to use against us.  I guess they feel like they are not worth it deep down and have to twist goodness directed at them- to keep that notion going.   All that I did for my D- my D sees me as a weak person - not as a mother on her side- she takes everything I did as worthless- that is how she can justify hating ME for allowing her to abuse me while I kept being there for her.  No gratefulness.  I don't think it is harsh at all for you to move on.  You have evolved to that point- and yes you are worth it.  And you do deserve a life.  I know I am worth it but something is holding me back. But I do see that - finding my own self again- ahead in the road. Just very tired right now to grab for that brass ring- -I have been on HER Merry-Go-Round too long -and lost sight of the brass ring . So now I am trying to get off the Merry Go Round and get on my own ride- get back in the drivers seat of my own life

If you don’t take care of yourself, you can’t take care of anyone else. 

. 

This is so true and hugs  xto you and your wife for all that you have been through.  I am working so hard now on trying to switch gears and take care of me.  I thank you for the nudge. 

Do not let her warped perception define you for yourself. (Words I am trying hard to live by myself.)

  Thank you for these words in particular.  That is what my T is trying to get me to do.  To NOT to believe what she says about me.   Thank you and    so that you can live by your own words too-

lostinspace2: You said:  "My daughter has cut herself out of our lives after being so dependent for 26 years and I must say it is a great relief. It has given me the breathing space I needed to question all the crazymaking and find this site. I can't believe I have been so naive always hoping that with maturity she would change. To be honest knowing what I know now and my, over 40 years plus, experience with my uBPD sister I really don't want her back in my life in a hurry. I will always love her as my daughter but I could never trust her again.

I think that you deserve the breathing space and I hope that somehow you will  be able to find peace as well. 

One of the things that I've found very helpful is an audiobook by Byron Katie.  It's called "The Truth Behind Addiction."  There are three separate clips where Ms. Katie helps clients consider a new perspective in how they relate to others by having them do "The Work." 

Thank you for the name of this audiobook.  My D does not have a drug addiction but I am going to try and  get that book as I find that even if I can come away with ANYTHING that is helpful about my D's abnormal situation it helps me move forward. Thank you.

Oh God, whiletheseasonspass,  your despair and pain really come through in your post.

Anyway, there's also Al anon... .Just google it to find meetings near you.  Even if your d doesn't have alcohol problems, al anon is kind of relevant  In fact, it's exactly on the mark... .it's about taking care of yourself in the face of something over which you have no control.  Do you know about it?

Coincidentally I called there al-anon a couple of weeks ago and got the answering machine but will call back during the correct hours.  I will try anything- and I do know another woman who goes to the meetings and she says it has helped her tremendously.  Meanwhile - what you have written about- like the rabbit hole- I always envisioned my D down a well and her trying to get me to live down there instead of allowing me to pull her up out of the 200 foot hole.  I hope that you are able to find your own peace through some of the things you suggested to me  x

I'm sure thats she has some good qualities way down in there somewhere like a sense of humor or something.

My D has good qualities but she has buried them more and more- as her illness has gotten worse.  She won't let me see them anymore lately- it is very sad.

Heck two different therapist said she was just probable oppsitional defient.    One parts wants to take her in and the other part just says no for your own safety.  Then I feel guilty for pushing her off on others and not taking her in.   She is enought to drive me crazy and will do the opposite of what I say or due.   She also is knows how to push my buttons and does her best to do it.    The guilt is killing me.   her errands and help her a job.   I am so stress out right know that I am about ready to lose it.

x  I understand so much of what you are saying.  My D had ODD too and I did not know what that was - that it even existed- and so as she pushed for her way and I did not know what to do and the dance became a power struggle and now as an adult she is still needing to be right and have her way like a 4 year old and she still is defiant in her head- even against things I do for her that are good.  She will not let the good in.  MY D knows how to push my buttons but now I am understanding this and will not react or let her know that she has pushed my buttons.  This took a lot of realizations and practice.  I mean - inside it eats me up when she does what she does but I will not let on.  I understand your guilt too- and I guess it takes a while until we have had enough and begin to realize that we must be about us. And that is where I am at the beginning of. And that is a hard step to be about me.  I do understand exactly how you feel.  Hang in there sweetie.

dear whiletheseasonspass,

Sometimes it feels like you're darned if you do or darned if you don't. No matter what I do or don't do, it either seems like it's not enough or not the right thing with her.  When I distance myself from her, I start feeling guilty that I'm letting her down and that I should be there for her because I do feel responsible for her problems because she is my daughter.  I constantly replay in my head what I could have done differently when she was younger to prevent her from having these problems, but she was always a bit off even as a baby, but of course she blames me because I was a single parent who had to work many hours.  She puts the blame on me and really doesn't take any responibilty for her actions.

Hugs,

Olive

Olive,

I too have gone back and thought what could i have done differently.  My T told me that one reason I do this is because I feel guilty because I believe the awful things my D says to me.  I felt when he said this- there might be some truth to this.  That is helping me to stay in the present which is no picnic either.  As far as you working as a single parent- many children are raised in this way and don't turn out the way our D's have.  That is something your D keeps feeding you though- that it is all of your fault.  But that is not true.  Thank you for coming back and replying.  You were the first one to reply to me when I first joined!   x

dear whiletheseasonspass,

remind me again how old your d is.

 

She is 25.  I also want to say that I am following your posts and that I think you are a wonderful mother and as I have said to you already - I do have hope for your D.  Keep on keeping on.

[etc]

l really feel for you and can identify with your situation. I have a S who has put me and my family through years of abuse and grief. In the end there was nothing l could do but protect myself and my family from his violent behaviour... .l sent him to live with his father.He left after 2 weeks and went from one friend's house to another's till finally my parents felt sorry for him and took him in... .and lived to regret it. Being estranged from your own child is heart wrenching. Putting up with abuse is soul destroying. Having a break from my S enabled me to re-energise and gain my strength.My S and l lived apart for 3 years. He still blames me for everything that has gone wrong in his life till this day, but in the time l was away from him, l discovered and read the book "Stop Walking on Eggshells.?" It gave me so much insight into the world of BPD ... .and strategies that l have used when communicating with my S. Three years later, my S has come to live with me again... .it's not perfect, but it's alot better than it was. Perhaps he's matured somewhat emotionally in this time?... .or perhaps with the help of this book l have learned how to communicate more effectively with him, how to avoid explosive situations and how to identify some of his triggers? I know you are going through a very difficult time with your D... .my thoughts and prayers are with you... .you are not alone. If you haven't read Stop walking on eggshells... .l highly recommend it. Having a break from your D might do both of you some good in the long run too. Good luck. 

[justme_t]

Wow!  This is my first time on this site, I just registered today.  When I read your post it was like someone writing down my every thought, my every feeling,  I am so very sorry for your pain, as I know it too well.  It brings tears to my eyes reading all this stuff for two reasons.  The obvious pain and confusion we all go through dealing with BPD's  and the overwhelming sense of understanding I have longed for, for almost 20 years.  My daughter is afflicted with this illness and the hurt and isolation has left deep scars.  I have come to this sight in the hopes of finding peace, understanding and release from years of guilt.  I have learned that strict boundaries must be put in place and dealing with the termendous guilt is a must.  I know it is hard, but you must take care of yourself and not feel bad about "cutting her out"  How much help can we really be when we are so overwhelmed by pain and guilt?  It is also NOT your fault she has this illness, nor how she cannot seem to bless and accept you. That is part of her illness. My daughter is now 20, I wish I had of seeked out support for me years ago.  I suppose I have learned to accept the fact, that is she is not willing to help herself, she is going to continue to be manipulative, harrassing, and vandictive.  Pull youself back from it, try not to take it too personally.  Why these kids choose to target us moms I will never know!  I will be thinking of you!

[lbjnltx]

justme_t,

they target us as mom's because we are the closest to them.  at the root of this illness is the fear of abandonment (real or imagined). who are we the most fearfull of being abandoned by? our mom's.

please visit the workshop board and recommended reading lists to get valuable information and tips in communication and understanding BPD.

welcome to our world, you will find alot of comfort and help here.

x

lbjnltx

[whiletheseasonspass]

Etc. Thank you for your kind and empathetic words.    It sounds as if your son has a very good chance of making it- that he wants to- even though you say it is not perfect.  And whether it was that he matured or the Eggshell book helping you or BOTH- it certainly sounds as if you have way less "pain" from his behavior.  I hope he continues to mature and that what you have learned to do will continue to pay off.  I read that Eggshell book back about 10 years ago and could not believe my eyes.  Unfortunately - no mater what I tried- it did not pan out too well in our situation.  However I can see how it benefits those who say so on this board- to have a break from their BP child- my soul needs a rest!  So thank you for adding that to what you said. Mothers can't hear that enough in situations like this! 

Meanwhile- Keep on letting us know how things are going in your world!  It is always nice to read about hopeful situations.

justme_t

Hugs to you for the pain you have suffered    and are still suffering  x  .   It sounds as if you found the perfect place to be- this board in incredible and there is so much compassion here and understanding. 

Everything you say is exactly right on regarding how we need to put ourselves first.  That is where inner my tug of war creates such stress and why I started this post and your comment and so many other replies on this thread have been so very helpful so I am glad I spilled my guts and wrote as I did.  And because of joining this board- I have gotten more insight and validation- that I am not awful- which I "knew" but that guilt or shame- MAN- that really works against you as you said.  Plus the BP - they really know how to zero in on that - hone in like they have radar and - they LOVE IT- as it works for THEM while it destroys US in more ways than one. 

It is so interesting what a difference it can make when you can FIND a board such as this and when you join such a board as this - I mean as for me-  I have struggled for years and I have been here now for maybe two months or three? and just in the past couple of weeks- I find that I am leaning toward the notion that it is actually not only OKAY  - but a necessity to indeed take care of ME as my brain wraps itself around this BPD which has taken me forever. 

Meanwhile-  justme_t- I hope so much that as time goes on- you too will be able to find some peace yourself and find what you need for YOU while writing and reading on this board.

And that question you ask- why the mothers?  I almost started a thread about that... .why the mothers?  Maybe because we are the nurturers and protectors and the BP feel like our motherly love and instincts to save them from themselves- comes across to them as if we are caging them up?

But I think it is a good question- why the mothers?

whiletheseasonspass

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[nothingupmysleeve]

But I think it is a good question- why the mothers?

whiletheseasonspass

justme_t,

they target us as mom's because we are the closest to them.  at the root of this illness is the fear of abandonment (real or imagined). who are we the most fearfull of being abandoned by? our mom's.

please visit the workshop board and recommended reading lists to get valuable information and tips in communication and understanding BPD.

welcome to our world, you will find alot of comfort and help here.

x

lbjnltx

Just popped back on here today, and have to say that I think my issues with my SD are because I am stepping up as mom and BM is totally disengaged other than acting like a buddy or aunt to SD 3 or 4 nights a month. Imagine how it must feel to know in your heart your mother doesn't love you the way you need and deserve her to. Thanks Lbjnltx and whiletheseasonspass!

[timeforboundaries]

WTSP:

I could have written your post at two separate times in my life... .

The first was during her teen years.  After an extremely bad few days, to include suicide watch all night long, I took her to her therapists office in the morning an announced to both of them (therapist and daughter) that I was DONE.  I didn't care what he did with her but she was not coming home with me that day. She was only 15.  He recognized how severe her decline was and thankfully convinced her to check herself into an adolescent psychiatric hospital.  She was there for a week, diagnosed by cyclothymia and sent home with no instructions for follow-up care except to get a psychiatrist who follow up with her prescription.  No tools for the family.  The good news was that the episode scared her very bad and when she came home, she was toddler like.  She wouldn't go anywhere outside of a three foot radius of me.  When she went to the bathroom, I had to stand outside the door and talk to her so she knew I was there.  I was so proud of how she rebuilt her life and really concentrated on making good choices about what influences she would allow to be in her life.  However, I have been dealing with the guilt of that day in her therapist's office for the last 15 years.

Things went fairly smoothly for quite a few years.  She and I were able to discuss her teen years without blame or remorse.  It just was.   We talked about 3 times a day (she was the only one of my daughters that had any children at the time and grandkids are great topics of conversation.  She never lost all of her "issues" but the family tried to accommodate the ones that we could and overlook the ones that weren't important. 

Then recently, uBPDd had begun a slow decline and was exhibiting some of her more difficult behaviors due to certain events in her family -- her unemployment, husband's shift work, children's difficulty in school (identified with some special needs), and trouble with her in-laws.  This caused her to become very negative, nit-picking, etc.  eventually her comments became hurtful, rude, and belittling

At the same time, another close family member hit puberty and began having problems that reminded me of uBPDd's teen years.  I needed to be involved as second defense for this family member, often mediating between child and the grandmother who is raising her.  Emotionally, this took me back 15 years to my daughter's problems.  So my defenses were down and I was completely lacking in coping skills.  I was also dealing with some major health problems.  I was in a place of need and wasn't able to give to my daughter what she wanted me to give during her time of need and things blew up bad.  I was ready to cut all ties again, but she beat me to it and cut off all family members.  We have all been NC with her since early December.

There is so much guilt about cutting ties with her because I keeping thinking about unconditional love and how that makes sense in times like this.  I DO love her, I just can't spend time in her presence right now.

[sweety]

This tug of war could last forever has anyone received a diagnosis of BPD in this situation?  I believed I was wrong all my life and because my mother believed my life belonged to her I gave it to her.  No on in my FOO would support me because they knew Mom needed me.  It was so hrrible I went through testing and therapy.  My sister attempted suicide, my brothers became drug abusers and many other things... .The only one that went though therapy was me and I was not BPD. I have found if one does not ineract well with another they should not fuel the situation. Why creats trouble by providing all the ingredients?

[whiletheseasonspass]

timeforboundaries,

Thank you for explaining.   You wrote:  "There is so much guilt about cutting ties with her because I keeping thinking about unconditional love and how that makes sense in times like this.  I DO love her, I just can't spend time in her presence right now". 

I can relate to your feelings so much - because my D really needs me so much and I yes I HAVE been there for her too for many years since she went from very sweet to the way she became and in spite of the fact that she consistently pushes me back with hurtful comments and that she can take a sentence from me- like I love you D and care for you and I am here for you- and twist it into something like I am accusing her of something or something completely different from the meaning of what I am saying.   

I know we all on this board as mothers/ parents want to be kind and loving to our child because it natural to be kind and loving as parents and it is innate to want to save your child.  But having said that- if you do not have a child who is flexible at all or never displays windows of some signs of health and if you have a child who is on the far side - the worst end of the spectrum of this disease- and you feel that you just can't do it anymore- either way - if you say in or leave- either way- there would be pain and either way it is very draining. 






   

[timeforboundaries]

WTSP:  Well said... .Damned if you do, Damned if you don't.

[FMJ]

This is so hard... I see my situation in so many of the posts.  If I say something it is wrong... .if I don't say anything... that is wrong.  One minute she needs us desparately... .next minute she is supposedly "taking charge" of her life... .this is the most gut wrenching thing I have ever been through.  The clincher in our situation is two precious grandchildren... .I cannot cut them out.   I am going to see a counselor next week for myself (my daughter told me today I needed help... .I was happy to be able to tell her I was getting help).

[lbjnltx]

hi fmj,

glad that you are here, sorry that you need to be.  how old is your child? have they been dx with BPD?

look forward to sharing with you and hope that we all can be a source of comfort, support and resources for information to you.

wishing you well

lbjnltx

[whiletheseasonspass]

FMJ,

Yes it is gut-wrenching.  I don't have grandchildren but to feel like you are "obligated"  to your BPD D to  keep your grandchildren in your life- well that must be so very beyond - difficult  x

I mean- it is hard enough just having the pain of having your D be a BPD and the treatment that comes from it. 

My D is the same way as you describe yours.  She can be very contrary even in the most simple conversations.  Sometimes I feel that she would rather kill herself (or ME) rather than be agreeable.  I don't know if I have ever had a normal conversation with her- as it is not normal to always be on eggshells and go along with whatever she is saying.

I remember one time when she was complaining after an outing- that I disagreed with practically everything she said.  As I was saying I am always on eggshells with her and go out of my way to always agree with her to avoid drama but in this specific situation- I remember specifically being very aware of the abnormality of having to to agree and agree etc. but I was definitely doing it. 

Yet she saw me as disagreeing and said it was throughout practically the whole outing and she made a huge deal about it.  I could not believe my ears. Maybe she just wanted to fight and let off some of her steam and picked something that would really push my buttons to engage me.

If I do dare to disagree with her - I know what behavior drama she will display - THAT IS FOR SURE.  So that is why I never do anything but agree.  It is too much.  And when she is verbally abusive to me I don't take the bait-  and that is not normal to allow someone to abuse you... .and they have the freedom to say whatever hurtful comment they want.

This is why I started this thread... .but I have still not yet cut her out.  But I am feeling worse and worse- can't eat or sleep.  Something has got to give. 

The tug of war inside for me is she is mentally ill and needs help but I can't get through to her and she is irrational and thinks it is me who is the one who needs help I WANT TO RUN AND RUN AND RUN  ? from her yet I am her mother!

So I guess what I am saying is that I so understand your word gut-wrenching.  It is a very appropriate word!

Anyway please keep on posting - the progress you make might be slow but speaking for myself- I have come - in baby steps albeit- from feeling entirely boggled  like I was her "prey" wrapped like a mummy in spider silk  on her web- to slowly getting an understanding of BPD.  Well... .here you don't feel alone and there is such great compassion that helps you eventually get some clarity. 

Good luck with your therapist. 

   

whiletheseasonspass

[FMJ]

My daughter is 32.  This past week she has had an ice cold tone with all of us... her father, myself and her sister.  She is dating a 23 year old who basically has no job.  I am paying for her a place to live... my mother died about 14 months ago... around the same time my daughter left her husband.  So she is living there... free.  Never have I brought that up.  I am glad to be able to do it.  She says I am not the same person since my mother died... .again my fault, I guess.  BUT... .I have also told her the boyfriend is not something I want to deal with right now... thus... the ice treatment.  She has missed work, her daughter was sick last week... daycare could not get in touch with her, nor could we.  Same thing this past Sat. night... the children were with their father... daughter sick again, wanted her mother... couldn't locate her.  I could just throw up.  She did not have the "rage" yesterday, but was cold, cold... .matter of fact.  Says I can't stand it because she no longer depends on me?  Excuse me... .daycare called me... her ex-husband called me... .so... .  The electric company called my house last week because of overdue bill... .  A week ago my phones... .home and cell... rang at 10:00 p.m. with hang-ups... her cell phone number and home number on caller ID.  I called back no answer.  Seems the boyfriend was checking who she had been calling.  I brought that up yesterday... she said she will not discuss that... it is in the past and means nothing.  So I guess I do need counseling! Can't wait to get it... .