Can’t deal with the lies

[Allie70]

Hi there,
I have just joined this site so just finding my way around. I think my 21 yr old D has developed BPD and the last 18 months have been terrible. We kicked her out of home due to very disrespectful behaviour which we now regret as she began using drugs, has lost the couple of friends she had, developed an eating disorder, started another destructive relationship, stole money from us , racked up $10,000 on a credit card with her boyfriend and can’t keep a job.
We managed to get her back home after 6 months and tried everything to assist her to get her life back on track until three months ago when she moved out again after we uncovered many lies. We found out last week that she has been living a completely fictitious life. She has lied about every facet of her life and has gone to such extremes to cover up how she is really living including moving interstate 2 months ago with her boyfriend who we can’t stand and going to the extreme of even flying down to have dinner with us to keep up the facade. 
It all ended a week ago with me telling her that I just can’t cope with the lies. I’m having a relationship with someone who doesn’t really exist. I told her I will always have the door open if she needs us but won’t contact her again. I just can’t believe the deterioration in 18 months and I can deal with anything but the lies. I think it has gotten to the state that she believes her lies to be the truth

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[GaGrl]

Welcome, Allie70...we are glad you found us, but sorry for the reason that sent you looking. There are a number of members, especially on this board, who have dealt with or are still dealing with the situations you describe. I'm so sorry -- it is very painful.

Had your daughter been in therapy at any time? Have you? Is there a diagnosis, or is this something you see in her behaviors?

What type of help and support do you need most right now?

We're here for you.

[MomSA]

Hi Allie

I am glad you found your way to these boards, you will find many people to help you with their wisdom.

I am sorry about your struggles with your daughter.

[PeaceMom]

Allie,
This is very interesting to me as I just researched BPD  and “lying” yesterday. It is not one of the Criteria in the DSM but it appears to be a common problem.

There are a couple of clinical theories as to why they lie so much. One being that the feel things do strongly that they make up a plausible story to justify the feeling.

This is super graphic but heck, I’ll share Anyway. My UBPD DD19 went to psych ward last summer after another breakup by yet another short term BF. She told me 2 mos ago that she went bc she was “gangraped by 12 guys”. None of this was reported by her at hospital. I told her a few days later that we needed to go make a police report. She said well it wasn’t really 12, more like 1 and it was consensual. Looking back I think she was trying to make her outburst of suicidal ideation fit the delusion she created.

The other theory about lying is that they live with shame and guilt so they will do anything to avoid more of it-like lying about their whereabouts.

Does any of this resonate with your situation?

[Allie70]

Thank you for your messages.

Ga girl  As far as I know she hasn’t been officially diagnosed with BPD by a psychiatrist. When she was living out of home her GP had made a referral for her but according to D she went once to see him but didn’t like him.
 We really encouraged her to start a DBT program at the start of this year but she only went for 6 weeks. She had been telling us that she was still seeing her therapist every week but that was one of the lies.
I did see a psychologist for about 8 months last year which was at times helpful and it was during this time when I started researching BPD and felt that D May have developed this and raised this with my psychologist but she didn’t seem to be really up to date with BPD . She seemed to have a view that I’ve read about that some psychologists think they are so much work with little chance of recovery.
I’m not sure how to find a psychologist who works with families and not the person with BPD
Peace mom
Yes your sharing does resonate with me and I guess I understand why she lies . I have spoken to her many times about the lying and she says she doesn’t want to disappoint us or she’s scared of our reaction but I feel it’s gotten so bad that I don’t know her anymore
She now makes up complete stories not when she is confronted about something but for example she told me a few months ago she had been in contact with a old friend from school and we were happy as she’d lost most of her friends. For two months she’d casually tell me about their conversations about pets, going places, general info about her family and that she says hi to me. She stayed at this girls house about once a week etc
Sorry this is a long story but we got a call from her work asking us if she was ok as she hadn’t turned up for two days which is how we found out about more lies. I rung her friend as I knew she’d been there two nights ago and her friend told me she hadn’t seen her for two years.
I was so shocked as the lying was so detailed and told as just part of her life, not under pressure to create a story on the spot.
I know now it was created so she could see her boyfriend that we had thought was finished months ago.
This is just one of hundreds of lies. I guess I’m just so shocked by the details and lengths she goes to and despite us repeatedly asking for the truth, telling her we can deal with anything but lies, she can’t seem to stop.
I’m not sure either if this is BPD or something else alongside BPD.

[Only Human]

Hi Allie70!

I join others in welcoming you to  bpdfamily. You've gotten some great feedback from PeaceMom, having dealt with similar behavior as you with your DD. That's one of the greatest things about  bpdfamily, that support we get from others, knowing we are not traveling alone. Together we are stronger.

As MomSA and Gagrl have already said, you'll find many other parents here who can relate to what you've written, and lots of wisdom from those who have been there, done that, are still doing that...thank you for sharing about your situation as I'm sure there is someone reading, nodding their head, grateful to feel less alone.   

A lot of progress has been made in the last several years when it comes to BPD. When my DD was diagnosed nearly nine years ago, everything I read was doom and gloom and, as you said, many T's were reluctant, or outright refused, to work with a pwBPD (person with BPD). Thank goodness the tides have turned! As for finding a T who works with family members of a pwBPD, I think you'll do just fine working with a T who works with pwBPD. They understand how difficult things can be and will share what they know about how to communicate and cope. They will also encourage you to take very good care of yourself, something we are all working on and having success with  

It's not easy, and change doesn't come overnight, but we are all learning together and we're glad you've joined us. I encourage you to read all you can about BPD and highly recommend the articles here above anything randomly chosen from the internet which is full of junk psychology and outdated material. A good place to start is the thread pinned to the top of this board, HOW TO GET THE MOST OUT OF THIS SITE. It's got many of our best articles with links to more. Have a look around and come back here with any questions, we want to help.

How did your DD respond when you told her you wouldn't be contacting her? Has she reached out?

I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this, it can be so painful. We get it better than anyone else could ever understand. You are safe here.

We look forward to getting to know you better and we hope you stick around - a strong support network is critical when dealing with these emotionally intense relationships.

~ OH

[MomSA]

The other theory about lying is that they live with shame and guilt so they will do anything to avoid more of it-like lying about their whereabouts.

This is why I think my DD lies all.the.time. as she just cannot handle the truth of her choices and admitting that she is crossing her own moral boundaries all the time. I often feel deeply sad for her, and in some ways would prefer the truth even when it's graphic...but her cycle is such that because I represent some form of moral line for her, she doesn't want to share the depths of her errors with me. I am just grateful that she is still with her therapist and he always try to bring her to effective choices.

[PeaceMom]

MomSA -interesting insight to think of yourself as the moral line in her mind. Integrity and Honesty are at the top of my value list. Much of that was instilled in me as s child -stay on the “right side of the morality highway”. So, it is nearly impossible for me to accept DD’s behavior where those 2 values are near the  bottom of her list.
I was a kid that avoided trouble and negative attention at all costs so her 24/7 quest to be desireable to men, have a best friend of the day and be the savior/rescuer/problem solver to anyone and everyone she meets regardless of her own safety is mind boggling.
I believe her mind is continually telling her: avoid  guilt/shame (mostly from me and DH) at any and all costs and always be wanted, accepted and loved by a guy. These are like air and water to her.

[StressedOutDaily]

her 24/7 quest to be desireable to men, have a best friend of the day and be the savior/rescuer/problem solver to anyone and everyone she meets regardless of her own safety is mind boggling.
I believe her mind is continually telling her: avoid  guilt/shame (mostly from me and DH) at any and all costs and always be wanted, accepted and loved by a guy. These are like air and water to her.

PeaceMom - this describes my DD16 to a tee - which scares me to death.
 
Allie70 . Our DD16 is quite the inaccurate reporter...almost everything she says is inaccurate...so it is very difficult for DH and I to decipher what is real, what is fiction...difficult to say the least.     

[PeaceMom]

For years I thought it was my duty to catch her in a lie and “prove it”. No matter how much proof I had-pictures, texts, recorded phone calls, she very rarely admitted she was lying when confronted.

I thought I was exposing her to truth so she would question herself and her contrived lies. I’ve found out that doesn’t work. DD will protect and justify her huge response to emotional dysregulation by creating an equally big lie to justify it.

Sometimes when she feels peaceful sitting with me, the truth will pour out about a random past lie. I’ve told her honesty is a big deal for me and the life I live so I will never be involved in anyway in supporting her in her lies. So I try to get out of her way and let the natural consequences be the lesson. It is so difficult when they live with us. I have to watch myself so I don’t become envious when others share that their kid w/BPD lives  elsewhere. For me, out of sight is out of mind. I’m happy when she’s gone! But I’m playing the long game here and maybe that will happen in the next few years, if I can make it that long...

[MomSA]

I believe her mind is continually telling her: avoid  guilt/shame (mostly from me and DH) at any and all costs and always be wanted, accepted and loved by a guy. These are like air and water to her.

Sounds so similar to my 20dd.

Please tell me if you ever speak to her directly about the guy thing? Does it even help? My daughter shuts down the moment I try.

I have put her on birth control and try to just "let it go"but I just loathe that these men are using her and she is just wanting love and acceptance.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[MomSA]

For years I thought it was my duty to catch her in a lie and “prove it”. No matter how much proof I had-pictures, texts, recorded phone calls, she very rarely admitted she was lying when confronted.

I thought I was exposing her to truth so she would question herself and her contrived lies. I’ve found out that doesn’t work. DD will protect and justify her huge response to emotional dysregulation by creating an equally big lie to justify it.

So do you not try and expose her to the lies anymore?

[PeaceMom]

There is a great exchange in the blog about 4 years ago entitled
“Projection, Lies, invalidation and Slander”. I wish I knew how to attach it here so ya’ll could read it. It is directly on point with this topic and written by very wise members. Any  idea how I do that?
And, the guy thing is maddening and terrifying and makes me feel ashamed for my DD. I force her to do the3 mos. BC shot as she is in no way ready for motherhood. I really wish I could convince her to do the 3 year implant. You will feel like you should win an Academy Award as you try s.e.t. method with promiscuity. “I know you are feeling lonely and physical comfort can make us feel calmer and better about ourselves, however sex can be extremely dangerous if you aren’t in a committed relationship with someone you really know. I feel concerned for your health and safety” blah blah blah... what I really want to say is: you could be assaulted or killed by these men and you could get a disease that might kill you, and/or have a baby that you have zero ability to raise. In my dreams, I can communicate with her exactly how I feel and give her these maternal warning in a real and honest way. When they were toddlers we could say Stop don’t touch that fire, back away now...

[PeaceMom]

“Projection, Invalidating, Lies and Slander” was the title

[PeaceMom]

And I buy her big boxes of condoms! I am extremely resentful of the fact that I feel compelled to go against my own values when I do this but, what appears to happen is that these girls very often do get pregnant without being married, they have the baby and then can’t care for baby so CPS or grandparents take over. Reading thru this blog all the way back to 2013, there are many many examples of this. It honestly terrifies me.
It’s always the elephant in the room for us-a possible pregnancy...