Triggered by being nice and helpful to her

[zaqsert]

My uBPDw woke up not feeling well and asked if I could take our D2 to preschool.  I did.  Fortunately, I really enjoy doing things with D2, even just a trip to school, but it also let my wife stay in bed.

Later in the day she told me about the anxiety she was feeling, probably caused by not feeling well.  I talked with her about it, and after about 5 to 10 minutes she said thanks, she was starting to feel better.

Then I offered to pick up D2 and bring her back home.  I was able to rearrange my workday to fit this in.  Although my wife was starting to feel better and could have done it, she thanked me for giving her a break.  After we got home, I gave D2 a bath.

Meanwhile, my wife spent the whole day watching TV (which is what she usually does on the days when D2 is in preschool) and, at one point, trying to take a nap.

So then it seems that what I got in return was a sudden mini-rage over dinner about something that I was supposed to do but have not done yet.  Ironically, it is something that she was going to do many, many months ago, and then she decided that she didn't want to deal with it and said she wanted me to do it.  Ever since then, she has brought it up on several occasions as an attack.  The cold shoulder lasted through the rest of the evening.

I know I should not be surprised.  Maybe she felt me getting too close for comfort again or felt like things were "too good" for the day, which caused her to trigger, attack, and push me away again.  But still, it put me on edge for part of the evening (argh!).  The next morning she acted as though nothing had happened the night before.

I just needed to vent here.  And it's a good reminder to myself to review the lessons and that I need to practice, practice, practice.  To help with working on myself, I found an audio course on mindfulness for beginners.  Looking forward to trying it.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[patientandclear]

You are cast in the role of someone who disappoints her. If you don't actually disappoint her, that can be weirdly frustrating, so she has to keep looking till she finds something you haven't done right. This is why it can feel like bad stuff, mistakes & imperfections are stockpiled but good things & ways you've come through in amazing fashion are forgotten. You are cast in a role and she needs you to conform to it for things to make sense. She feels bad & you must be the cause.

[Mono No Aware]

Gotta love the little traps they set for us... .   the "no-win" situations.

The watching-TV-all-day sounds quite familiar... .   hmmm... .   oh yeah my wife does that too.

[myself]

You are cast in the role of someone who disappoints her. If you don't actually disappoint her, that can be weirdly frustrating, so she has to keep looking till she finds something you haven't done right. This is why it can feel like bad stuff, mistakes & imperfections are stockpiled but good things & ways you've come through in amazing fashion are forgotten. You are cast in a role and she needs you to conform to it for things to make sense. She feels bad & you must be the cause.

^^^Really good way to put it.

We're also the ones who DO so much, which becomes expected and demanded of us. We're expending energy to keep the relationship going, while the other person works at tearing it down. We're not thanked for that because our efforts go against theirs.  

[zaqsert]

Thanks to all of you.

Recently our marital therapist commented on how when you believe and assume your partner has your best interests in mind then you work through misunderstandings.  But when you believe they don't, everything becomes evidence to further support the belief.

[VeryFree]

Thanks to all of you.

Recently our marital therapist commented on how when you believe and assume your partner has your best interests in mind then you work through misunderstandings.  But when you believe they don't, everything becomes evidence to further support the belief.

Your marital therapist knows about BPD?

[waverider]

It is possible she felt guilty about not doing whatever she normally would when she was feeling ill. pwBPD struggle to accept guilt and can then use projection to deal with it. That is blaming you, making you guilty of something instead. This can be worse if they suspect that you may believe they are at fault (that needs only be a perception).

I often only became aware of my partner feeling like a failure as a consequence of her attempting to pull someone else down. Her projections were often a barometer of her own inner thoughts.

[zaqsert]

Your marital therapist knows about BPD?

She does know about BPD.  Her training is as a phychoanalyst.  I only realized in the past few months that a number of the things she has been trying to teach me are things intended to stop making things worse.  Now I realize that while I thought I was learning some of these things, I inevitably would turn to JADEing at one point or other.  And now I see that JADEing is one of the things she has been trying to get me to stop doing.

What finally started to help me actually learn and adopt these lessons was learning about BPD and realizing that I can't apply logic or even "emotional logic" that would normally work with other nons.

Around the time when I started learning about BPD, I ended up having a session with our T on my own because my wife didn't make it.  I mentioned that my wife's behavior seems borderline, and our T agreed with me.  That was the only time I openly discussed BPD with our T.

It is possible she felt guilty about not doing whatever she normally would when she was feeling ill. pwBPD struggle to accept guilt and can then use projection to deal with it. That is blaming you, making you guilty of something instead. This can be worse if they suspect that you may believe they are at fault (that needs only be a perception).

I often only became aware of my partner feeling like a failure as a consequence of her attempting to pull someone else down. Her projections were often a barometer of her own inner thoughts.

Waverider, great point.  I had not thought of it this way.  I've started to notice this projection behavior in my wife too.  This is a good one to keep an eye out for and be aware of.  Thanks!

Just one night prior to the events I posted above, I had a lot of work to do and had to stay up late.  My wife asked if there was anything she could do to help (nice offer that I don't hear all that often).  I thanked her and said there was nothing that I could think of at the time.  I suppose this may have added to her possibly feeling guilty.

[zaqsert]

I often only became aware of my partner feeling like a failure as a consequence of her attempting to pull someone else down. Her projections were often a barometer of her own inner thoughts.

Waverider, is there anything in particular that you do in these situations that has worked for you?

Possibilities that come to mind include:

Validating:  I can validate something related to the feelings in the complaint that I hear.  But this may not get at the underlying guilt or other feeling that she may be experiencing.  Then again, if she's projecting the bad feelings on me, then she may not feel them, and may not need to have them validated.  (I'm only just starting to explore this logic... .   )

Boundaries:  Enforcing boundaries of not being talked to in a hostile tone, much less raged at.  Maybe boundaries of not being accused of having feelings or intentions that I do not have.  The accusations are usually of not caring about her and not following through on things I was supposed to do.  Of course the "not following through" almost always has some truth to it, but the context and intention behind it are often very distorted.

Ignore the accusation and/or walk away:  After briefly acknowledging what I heard her say, I went back to a an earlier topic that we have been chatting about with our D2.  I was thinking of another comment that our marital T had made recently, that I should respond to accusations with the level of intensity that I believe to be true rather than the level of intensity or injury that I hear conveyed by my wife.  Our T warned me that if I respond as if my actions had been terribly egregious then it could end up validating a totally distorted reality, rather than just validating some of the feelings.

[waverider]

I often only became aware of my partner feeling like a failure as a consequence of her attempting to pull someone else down. Her projections were often a barometer of her own inner thoughts.

Waverider, is there anything in particular that you do in these situations that has worked for you?

Possibilities that come to mind include:

Validating:  I can validate something related to the feelings in the complaint that I hear.  But this may not get at the underlying guilt or other feeling that she may be experiencing.  Then again, if she's projecting the bad feelings on me, then she may not feel them, and may not need to have them validated.  (I'm only just starting to explore this logic... .   )

Boundaries:  Enforcing boundaries of not being talked to in a hostile tone, much less raged at.  Maybe boundaries of not being accused of having feelings or intentions that I do not have.  The accusations are usually of not caring about her and not following through on things I was supposed to do.  Of course the "not following through" almost always has some truth to it, but the context and intention behind it are often very distorted.

Ignore the accusation and/or walk away:  After briefly acknowledging what I heard her say, I went back to a an earlier topic that we have been chatting about with our D2.  I was thinking of another comment that our marital T had made recently, that I should respond to accusations with the level of intensity that I believe to be true rather than the level of intensity or injury that I hear conveyed by my wife.  Our T warned me that if I respond as if my actions had been terribly egregious then it could end up validating a totally distorted reality, rather than just validating some of the feelings.

Depends how serious it is, we have little hostile conflict these days. But when we did then Boundaries and dysengagement were essential if it was heading rapidly into a bad place.

Most of the time though it is just little niggles and ripples. Generally I totally avoid being defensive, I listen and ask questions without pushing. I dont need answers or a resolution and most issues now just fade off, the niggle was scratched if you like. Almost like a bit of a vent (which we all do), just needing the space to let it out without having to justify it. Often I take note without comment as it is subconcious on their part. It may not be deliberate nor may they be aware of doing it. Picking up on something thay are unaware of can be disastrous.

Often the accusations have just enough element of truth (though twisted) to cause you to react. It is that reactionary behavior that then triggers the ensuing drama. In particular avoid mirroring their mood or tone , even though that can be difficult, as that is part of the projection, the hook if you like.

Keep in mind this is ultimately their issue not yours

[zaqsert]

Thanks!  That helps.

[briefcase]

People with BPD don't have stable moods.  One of the frustrating side effects for us is that this mood instability, together with black and white thinking, makes it hard to accumulate "brownie points" with a pwBPD.  So, you let your wife sleep in, take care of your daughter, and think - wow, I've gone out of my way today to do something nice.  And, in those moments, your wife probably agrees and thinks highly of you. 

But, by dinner time, her mind has moved on to the incomplete task (which she was supposed to do originally) and her mood sours.  At that moment, she's feeling badly and that's all that really matters.  Her feelings in the moment equal her "facts."  And at dinner she's feeling like you've let her down.  It's black and white, she feels like you always let her down (or whatever) and contrary facts from earlier in the day don't really get in the way of that thought process.

Our expectation is that there will be some residual gratitude for the good things you did that she appreciated earlier in the day.  But, it often doesn't work out that way.  The mood of the moment sort of sweeps away all the brownie points, leaving us feeling confused and frustrated.

I've seen relationship advice that compares a relationship to a bank account, with both people making deposits and withdrawals through their actions and words.  It makes a lot of sense to me.  But, when BPD is thrown in, there are a lot of "accounting errors" and our deposits get lost.  We know we've made the deposits and feel frustrated that the "bank" keeps bouncing our checks and treating us like deadbeats. 



   

[Mono No Aware]

People with BPD don't have stable moods.  One of the frustrating side effects for us is that this mood instability, together with black and white thinking, makes it hard to accumulate "brownie points" with a pwBPD.  So, you let your wife sleep in, take care of your daughter, and think - wow, I've gone out of my way today to do something nice.  And, in those moments, your wife probably agrees and thinks highly of you. 

But, by dinner time, her mind has moved on to the incomplete task (which she was supposed to do originally) and her mood sours.  At that moment, she's feeling badly and that's all that really matters.  Her feelings in the moment equal her "facts."  And at dinner she's feeling like you've let her down.  It's black and white, she feels like you always let her down (or whatever) and contrary facts from earlier in the day don't really get in the way of that thought process.

Our expectation is that there will be some residual gratitude for the good things you did that she appreciated earlier in the day.  But, it often doesn't work out that way.  The mood of the moment sort of sweeps away all the brownie points, leaving us feeling confused and frustrated.

I knew this about my wife for a decade before stumbling across BPD.

I called it "mood dependent reality" when I realized how deeply she believed that everything (and me) is awful while in a bad mood, and then the next day a better mood meant the entire world was better - and she had no knowledge of these transitions whatsoever.

I've seen relationship advice that compares a relationship to a bank account, with both people making deposits and withdrawals through their actions and words.  It makes a lot of sense to me.  But, when BPD is thrown in, there are a lot of "accounting errors" and our deposits get lost.  We know we've made the deposits and feel frustrated that the "bank" keeps bouncing our checks and treating us like deadbeats. 

The deposits are written in disappearing ink, while the failure-to-pay-with-infinite-compounded-interest marks are double-entried in both permanent ink and blood.

[waverider]

An inability to budget emotions, along with an inability to accept responsibility for any accrued debt, which must be of your doing as someone has to be blamed.

Rich on pay day, broke two days later, racking up CC for the rest of the week, but the interest on the CC was you fault,because you used it to buy the basics after the money had been frittered away.

It is often hard to follow the logic, as a lot of the time there is non, the drive is sometimes pure and simple blame shifting. You have to learn sometimes to just accept things as just is, and typical, without trying to justify it. Though reactions are not logical they do follow patterns and can become predictable. This becomes more noticeable once you pull your influence out of it and can observe it from outside.

[zaqsert]

Great explanations and analogies!  Thanks!

Though reactions are not logical they do follow patterns and can become predictable. This becomes more noticeable once you pull your influence out of it and can observe it from outside.

I think I'm finally starting to notice the patterns, which in turn makes it a bit easier to observe it from the outside.

(Ha!  Finally a virtuous circle!  )