How to fix things with my uBPD mother?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Tough I (41) am not certain, I suspect my mother (71) has BPD after doing extensive research on her behavioral traits and finally landing here... now to the event that brought me here

My girlfriend (31) is 9 months pregnant with our first child and my mother came to stay with us 3 weeks ago. Things were going fine until she came back home one afternoon and asked me were my girlfriend was. I told her she was out to meet up with a (male) friend. She immediately told me "Well then you should also go out and meet with a (female) friend". I asked her why she would say that, that her out of the blue distrust in my gf, was completely out of line (I was actually invited to go out with them but I declined because he is an old school friend and I wanted them to be able to talk about things without having to consider me being there, but I didnt mention this to my mother). To which she told me that my gf probably just made an excuse to go out to avoid her. I told her that that didn't make any sense, to which she replied it was because my gf had been completely heart less and disrespectfull with her the day before. I was there, the disrespectful event, was my gf kindly asking my mom to please avoid scratching our pan with a fork. So in disbelief I told her my gf had actually asked her very nicely and respectfully to respect our things, but with that she just blew a fuse, she told me my gf didnt love me, didnt respect her, and only was with me for my money. To which I responded with asking her to please leave our house immediately.

She left the next morning leaving an 'apology' letter which basically said "Sorry for being annoying, wish you the best for your upcoming childbirth". I wrote her a message telling her that I couldn't accept her apology, that I didn't ask her to leave because she had been 'annoying', but because she had insulted my gf for no real reason and hurt me by doing so. But that I hoped we could talk about what happened so she could meet her grandson, but that I need her to respect and apologize with his mother to be able to allow that'.

She answered she was also very hurt by the things I said, but that she would try to consider what happened. Three weeks have passed since then, every day she asks how the baby is doing (who should be born any minute now) and tells me about her day and send me pictures of the places she is as if nothing happened. I have only responded distantly telling her the baby is fine, itching to demand a real apology every time but refraining to do so.

Am I delusional to think we can work this out? I do think she has BPD but I also see she has made huge amounts of progress in the last 20 years (Stopped drinking 20 years ago, actually has had a stable partner for the last 25 years) which makes me think she might be capable to talk about this like adults. But I really don't want this to be a conversation were she is the victim and we have to apologize. From what I've read, demanding an apology wont work if she has BPD. What can I do to encourage a real conversation (hopefully including an apology to my gf)?

On a side note, I've read a lot about splitting and in my mothers case it takes on a very particular form. I can't do anything wrong, am the perfect son (To the point it becomes frustrating and simply not true, we all have our issues). Never have I experienced the devaluation part of the splitting to be directed at me, only the idealization part. The devaluation part is only directed at people close to me and for the most insane reasons (My business partner is not to trust and a bad person because he once ate a chocolate bar in front of her and didn't ask her if she wanted some, is my prime example for this. Every single one of my romantic relationships have unfortunatelly felt this to). I have not yet read of someone else experiencing this form of splitting, so if anyone can confirm this has happened to them I would be grateful.

Thank you, feel much better just by writting this, it has been eating me up and I really hope my son can meet his grandmother soon.

[joeydoe]

Tough I (41) am not certain, I suspect my mother (71) has BPD after doing extensive research on her behavioral traits and finally landing here... now to the event that brought me here

My girlfriend (31) is 9 months pregnant with our first child and my mother came to stay with us 3 weeks ago. Things were going fine until she came back home one afternoon and asked me were my girlfriend was. I told her she was out to meet up with a (male) friend. She immediately told me "Well then you should also go out and meet with a (female) friend". I asked her why she would say that, that her out of the blue distrust in my gf, was completely out of line (I was actually invited to go out with them but I declined because he is an old school friend and I wanted them to be able to talk about things without having to consider me being there, but I didnt mention this to my mother). To which she told me that my gf probably just made an excuse to go out to avoid her. I told her that that didn't make any sense, to which she replied it was because my gf had been completely heart less and disrespectfull with her the day before. I was there, the disrespectful event, was my gf kindly asking my mom to please avoid scratching our pan with a fork. So in disbelief I told her my gf had actually asked her very nicely and respectfully to respect our things, but with that she just blew a fuse, she told me my gf didnt love me, didnt respect her, and only was with me for my money. To which I responded with asking her to please leave our house immediately.

She left the next morning leaving an 'apology' letter which basically said "Sorry for being annoying, wish you the best for your upcoming childbirth". I wrote her a message telling her that I couldn't accept her apology, that I didn't ask her to leave because she had been 'annoying', but because she had insulted my gf for no real reason and hurt me by doing so. But that I hoped we could talk about what happened so she could meet her grandson, but that I need her to respect and apologize with his mother to be able to allow that'.

She answered she was also very hurt by the things I said, but that she would try to consider what happened. Three weeks have passed since then, every day she asks how the baby is doing (who should be born any minute now) and tells me about her day and send me pictures of the places she is as if nothing happened. I have only responded distantly telling her the baby is fine, itching to demand a real apology every time but refraining to do so.

Am I delusional to think we can work this out? I do think she has BPD but I also see she has made huge amounts of progress in the last 20 years (Stopped drinking 20 years ago, actually has had a stable partner for the last 25 years) which makes me think she might be capable to talk about this like adults. But I really don't want this to be a conversation were she is the victim and we have to apologize. From what I've read, demanding an apology wont work if she has BPD. What can I do to encourage a real conversation (hopefully including an apology to my gf)?

On a side note, I've read a lot about splitting and in my mothers case it takes on a very particular form. I can't do anything wrong, am the perfect son (To the point it becomes frustrating and simply not true, we all have our issues). Never have I experienced the devaluation part of the splitting to be directed at me, only the idealization part. The devaluation part is only directed at people close to me and for the most insane reasons (My business partner is not to trust and a bad person because he once ate a chocolate bar in front of her and didn't ask her if she wanted some, is my prime example for this. Every single one of my romantic relationships have unfortunatelly felt this to). I have not yet read of someone else experiencing this form of splitting, so if anyone can confirm this has happened to them I would be grateful.

Thank you, feel much better just by writting this, it has been eating me up and I really hope my son can meet his grandmother soon.

[zachira]

You are doing a great job of setting boundaries with your mother that will help to  protect you, your girlfriend, and your child from your mother's disordered behaviors. Boundaries are for your chosen family's well being and safety. Your boundaries will not likely change the behaviors of a disordered person who constantly pushes back on boundaries and who will not apologize for violating boundaries, instead will act like they never did anything wrong no matter how much you insist on a sincere apology and changes in behaviors to repair the relationship.

My mother with BPD who is deceased never gave up on destroying my two brothers' relationships with their girlfriends. Neither one married or had any children. My mother had terrible things to say about any woman my brothers dated. My mother would often go into a rage saying terrible things about one of my brother's former girlfriends until the day my mother passed away even though my brother and former girlfriend had both been deceased for many years.

There are many members on PSI who have similar experiences to yours. We are here to listen, support you, and learn from your experiences.

[Notwendy]

She left the next morning leaving an 'apology' letter which basically said "Sorry for being annoying, wish you the best for your upcoming childbirth". I wrote her a message telling her that I couldn't accept her apology, that I didn't ask her to leave because she had been 'annoying', but because she had insulted my gf for no real reason and hurt me by doing so. But that I hoped we could talk about what happened so she could meet her grandson, but that I need her to respect and apologize with his mother to be able to allow that'.

She answered she was also very hurt by the things I said, but that she would try to consider what happened. Three weeks have passed since then, every day she asks how the baby is doing (who should be born any minute now) and tells me about her day and send me pictures of the places she is as if nothing happened. I have only responded distantly telling her the baby is fine, itching to demand a real apology every time but refraining to do so.

That is the apology. It's not a satisfactory apology but the "acting as if nothing happened" - I call it the "dry erase board apology"- is the kind of behavior my BPD mother does too. A true apology would require being accountable for her behavior which isn't something my mother tends to do.

What happened with your mother and GF was more about your mother than your GF- it was triangulation. Your mother is sensing a change- your devotion to the GF and the new baby- is a normal developmental step for you, to shift your affections towards a partner and family. It's a wonderful thing but also possibly to someone with BPD a sign that there's less attention to them. My BPD mother seems to be more critical of the females in my father's family. I know that doesn't make logical sense as we can both love parents and a spouse but it seems to be a common situation.

The bottom line though is that your mother was out of line. You are a grown man, about to be a father, and this is your home.  However, your mother also may have a disorder and is not likely to change. You and your GF are going to have to decide how to navigate a relatioship with her. Your GF also has a say in this- this is her home and her child too. I think it would help her if she learned about BPD- not because it's her responsibility but to help her understand that if BPD mother says something offensive- it's more likely disordered thinking on the part of your mother. Your GF doesn't have to tolerate it- but it may help her to not take your mother's comments personally.

You and your GF will need to come up with some boundaries about your relationship with your mother. I'd base it on her behavior- not if she comes up with a satisfactory apology. The boundary could be "I don't wish to talk about my GF behind her back" and so you don't engage if she tries that.

[joeydoe]

I thank you both so much for the replies. It has helped us immensly. I just discovered my mom is more than likely to be afflicted by BPD as it is the first time in 30 years I have managed to react like an adult. Every other time since I have been 10 or so I would react as childishly as she was and would end up blaming my self. This is the first time I could rationally not understand anything which made me research, which ended opening up the flood gates. We have also started reading "Stop Walking on Eggshells" and were amazed that even behaviors that she displays that I would not have thought of being related to BPD, actually are central to it (Being super controlling or being super charming to outsiders for instance). Its a lot to take in in such a short amount of time, suddenly making sense of so many things that have happened during my whole life and also finally understanding some of her behaviour. It is going to be a long journey from here.

Despite being healthy at 71, I do worry, that if we don't improve the relationship as fast as possible, it might end up being to late. But we are slowly understanding, that we cannot rush this and most importantly, that we can't let ourselves feel guilty over it. It is definitelly sad, but its easier to cope now.

All our love to the bpdfamily community

[Notwendy]

I think the idea of "fixing things" is complicated. I think we are wired to want to please our mothers and have a warm and caring relationship. We can do our best but - it's complicated. For me, it's not possible to meet my mother's expectations but the closest thing to doing so is to comply with her wishes- which may also compromise my own boundaries, or my children's. So it becomes a dilemmma- please my mother or allow her to be verbally and emotionally abusive to me.

My BPD mother does not like boundaries and is unhappy with them. She sees boundaries as being something done to hurt her, not because of her own behavior. She needs to be in control. A relationship with her means she gets her way.

So how do I resolve this? By my own ethics and values. I don't intentionally wish to be hurftul to her in any way but I also don't wish to allow her to be hurtful to me. I can't control her feelings. If I need to have a boundary and she believes it's hurtful to her even if I have no intent of being hurtful- I didn't cause that.

BPD affects all relationships and this includes her relationship with me.

If "fixing things" means fixing her feelings and her accepting my boundaries, that my not be feasable.

If "fixing things" means that making my best effort is enough for me, even if she doesn't feel it is, that is within my possibility.

[zachira]

So nice to hear that you and your girlfriend are working together to figure out how to interact with your mother. It is a long road to figuring out what boundaries to have with a mother with BPD. It can really make things a lot easier when a couple is mostly on the same page with how they plan to interact or limit interactions with a disordered family member, especially when the family member is the grandmother of your child. Many members on PSI have a boundary with the grandmother of their children that the children's well being comes first and that they will not leave their children alone with the grandmother with BPD.

[Pook075]

Despite being healthy at 71, I do worry, that if we don't improve the relationship as fast as possible, it might end up being to late. But we are slowly understanding, that we cannot rush this and most importantly, that we can't let ourselves feel guilty over it. It is definitelly sad, but its easier to cope now.

Hey Joey, welcome to the family!

The one mistake I see here is your desire to "fix your mom" since she can't be fixed.  If this is BPD or another mental illness, moving past it rests on her and her alone.  There's nothing you can do to encourage her to consider therapy or other treatments, so the "fix" you're looking for comes through compassion and validation.

What's that look like?

Your wife and your mom had an altercation.  That's life, it happens every day.  No big deal.  But your mom made it a big deal because she was hurt far more than you can understand.  She wants what's best for you and she saw a controlling, unfaithful wife that betrayed you.  Notice she didn't lash out about the pan at first; she stayed quiet.  But when it was you that was being victimized, she couldn't bite her tongue any longer and pled her case.

I know that everything about that description is not reality...but it's what she felt and what she believed in the moment. Setting a boundary saying she's not going to talk/act like that is a very good thing.  Demanding an apology sort of escalated things though, because your mom believes wholeheartedly that she's correct and she's trying to protect you. 

The goal here is to smooth things out with your wife and mom, so understanding your mom's viewpoint is important.  Her actions (contacting you daily and acting like nothing happened) is also important because that's her way of moving past this with the least amount of fallout.  She won't apologize though because to her, she did nothing wrong...she was defending her son.  The fix here is to do nothing...to just let it go.

What does that look like moving forward?  It means that your wife understands that you're the center of the universe for your mom and she'll look for reasons the marriage was a bad idea.  That's fine- let her do that.  You change that narrative by letting her see the two of you doing great together and loving a newborn once the day arrives.  Change her mind through actions alone and by occasionally forgiving her for being too overbearing.  That's really the only task at hand today.

[Notwendy]

I can understand the wanting to fix things with a parent. I think this wish- to have a good relationship with our parents- is something we've been trying for since childhood- as if somehow "getting it right" is in our ability.

So here you are, doing something most parents would be ecstatic about- welcoming a grandchild- and your mother comes up with that idea? I can understand what a "let down" that must feel like. My BPD mother comes up with some untrue interpretations too. One example is that I spent a week running errands for her when we moved her to assisted living, picked up some flowers for her and in the moment grabbed another bouquet for another resident who had been friendly and helpful to her. I gave the flowers to the friend and forgot to mention them to my mother. The friend mentioned this to my mother. Then, I got an angry phone call from her about how I embarrased her by not telling her about the flowers. it was such a "let down" as my intention was to do something nice- and my mother comes up with this??

Yes, family members can have altercations but they are in context of the whole relationship. If we assume they have good intentions, then the occasional altercation is forgettable. It helped me to read about the Karpman triangle (info on this site and on internet) and understand that my mother's perception is in victim mode- and so she interprets people's actions and words as somehow being "done to her".

We aren't perfect people and we sometimes mess up, or inadvertently hurt someone's feelings. I think one aspect of the difficulty is when someone can not perceive our good intentions and instead interprets some kind of bad intention to what we do. I think what we wish for is for our parents to truly "see us" as who we are and we keep trying to show them who we are.

I think for me "fixing things" takes some acceptance on my part that due to my mother's thinking, she may not be able to perceive good intentions in people. However, I know what my own intentions are and so I need to hold on to that reality. I also think we have to accept that we aren't perfect and if we make a mistake, it's a mistake. It's not the whole of who we are. As much as I wish for affirmation and validation from my parent, if they don't have a solid sense of self- they can't provide that for someone else.

You and your GF are soon to experience something absolutely amazing and wonderful.