FYI: Son's physical ailment gone since ex left.

[Sunfl0wer]

Hey guys,

I just thought I'd share.  Today my S19 was telling me he hasn't felt chest pain for the first time in several days.  Then as the day progressed, he started to think about this more, explaining that he thinks it was an anxiety response and has been feeling more at ease.  Then he made the connection that it has been since exBF moved out this weekend.

Honestly, my uN/BPDexbf is not as bad as most, more a mild, well functioning type.  He is mostly PA, or gives silent treatment, not usually loud with his emotions.  I really would never have guessed that my son was feeling anxiety over his presence and certainly not such a strong ongoing physiological response for years.

My son is quite sensitive and explained it as a sixth sense of his, likened to the way a dog has regarding people.  He explained how he just feels people's emotions and feeling exBF's aura really kept him in a state of stress.  He didn't really realize how much, until exBF was gone.

I just wanted to share that because many of us have little ones that are not as expressive, or even older ones that we can easily think are handling things without much issue.  I think it is important to note that even when we think we are the only ones affected, even when we think we are strong enough, can manage the behaviors, there are often affects that do not come to our awareness sometimes ever.  The affects of this energy of negativity does impact in ways that we may never realize.

[AloneInChaos]

I think you're absolutely right. My partner has BPD and our 9-year-old daughter is having problems in every single subject at school. Her teacher says she seems to be in her own little world and doesn't really pay attention in class. About 3 yrs ago her father tried to slit his throat with a butter knife in front of her when we had a fight. I'm sure she's been traumatized ever since but I only recently woke up from my own trauma (he slit his wrist in front of my children when they were about our daughter's age--his tactic to manipulate people is to attempt suicide, although with all his attempts, if he really wanted to die, he would have killed himself a long time ago), I only recently started going to therapy myself, and my therapist told me it sounded like my daughter is depressed. So I am arranging therapy for her, but unfortunately, there is a waiting list (don't know how it is in the States; we are living in Germany and there are waiting lists for children's therapy).

She also often has stomach aches and headaches. I should probably write more or post a thread myself, but right now I am so confused and full of rage and hatred and am not able to think clearly. I'll have to stop now because I am crying. I cannot deal with this. I don't know how to help my children or myself, although my older children seem to have their lives in order. My son is studying and my daughter plans to study. But she moved out when she was 18 because of my partner and has been living with her boyfriend for 2 years now. My older kids were still able to perform at school. I don't know what kind of future my daughter has.

[rg1976]

This is absolutely one of the most heartbreaking things. The children and anyone else involved is affected. It isn't just the two people on an island.

After one incident, I decided that it wasn't okay to have my children around her. That has been 2 years ago, but I remained involved. The children are still affected because my interactions with her were making me miserable. The children and my friends could tell and told me I should stop seeing her.

I'm still working on it. I know it is an addictive relationship and I'm the addict. It all makes perfect sense, but I'm still trying to overcome the emotional pull, even though I know what I have to do.

Peace,

Rg

[LimboFL]

Sunflower, I am glad you raised this issue.

Although there might have 4 or 5 points where my ex scared my son, with her anger, the rest of the time she was very much like your ex, quiet, but kids (likely because they have less in their minds than we do) feel so much more. I had 50/50 custody of my son for most of the relationship and my son (13), over the course of 4 years not only had to deal with his Father living in a state of stress and so much more, but he also had to deal with an ex who, while acknowledging him, often times being quite stern, dry and cold. When he arrived, she would often just retreat into the bedroom and play with facebook or whatever.

The saddest part for me was that there were a few times where she would play with him. I would get home from work and they were just getting in from having played in the yard. Those times were few and far between. I needed her help on many occasions, she only agreed a couple of times. Otherwise, she would say that it was my responsibility or my son's. But she had plenty of advice, though. She had plenty of criticism for how poorly I was raising him.

She did one other kind thing and that was to buy him a nice bed and desk. I will not soil that kindness with conjecture as to the reasons why she did this. She did have moments of her being sweet and briefly attentive to him.

There was a night, which is an epiphany moment for me where she came to me outside while I was having a cig and a cocktail and she sat down and said 'I need to tell you something, right now something is happening with my brain, I can't control it and it's very wrong but I don't like your son (she used his name) very much at the moment. It's not what I want but I don't know how to change it". It was heartbreaking. She was aware but not able to do anything about it.

However, in the end, while I won't allow myself to feel the terrible pain, it is absolutely unconscionable that my depth into the FOG, put my son in that position. In the end after a final rage, where she pulled my son out of bed at 2am, after I had run out of the house after being chased with a bottle, and told him that he needed to go back to his Mom's. He was crying and told him "stop being such a baby". I called the cops. My wife had had enough and banned him from our apartment. She was quite drunk and I won't get into the lead up to that episode. The hardest part was that the next morning she was so sad about what she did, so apologetic, very sullen. She also explained that the reason why she pulled him out of bed was because she didn't want him to be part of the argument and that he was safer at his Mothers. The cops came and she put on quite a show. One minute being very prickly and slightly beligerent and the next somewhat compliant. The cops saw it and said that I need to get away from her, that one day it will end up worse. It was hard advice to swallow but I still didn't give up because of her reaction the following morning. I excused it because I knew that she had BPD. I excused so much.

I am angry at myself that I allowed this for so long. She always got on me about what a poor Father I was, that kids shouldn't be afforded to such poor parents. This coming from a woman who had none. She had all the advice in the world but helped very little. It was a constant stress, especially when he would arrive home from school, with her in the apt (she had a weird schedule so often had weekdays off). I didn't fear for his safety but rather that he would have to spend time in such tension. The hardest part was that, in theory, she was right. He should have gotten up every morning and cleaned his room, he should have preferred to read a book than play xbox, he should have immediately gotten up after dinner and did the dishes without being asked to, he should have... .he should have... .he did do many of those things after being asked but her expectations were so extreme and he never met them to her satisfaction. I reprimanded him plenty and had reasonable demands. Having once been a boy of his age, though.

Why did I allow it, why did I accept it? I gladly accepted my exw refusal that he be in our apt. It was almost a relief because when my son was around, the walking on eggshells became even more intense, because I was not able to control him.

I know that he loved her and she him, they both said it but I put my son in a position of considerable discomfort and stress. I can't believe I allowed it. Fortunately, he wasn't exposed enough to all of the craziness to be permanently effected. In fact he is doing better than ever and is now staying with me 3 nights a week. How did I choose her over my son? I guess she had me believing that I was a poor Father and that my son deserved the head master like treatment from her. Who knows but there is no stronger a reason as to why I am happy to be out of it, for his sake.   

[FracturedReality]

I think you're absolutely right. My partner has BPD and our 9-year-old daughter is having problems in every single subject at school. Her teacher says she seems to be in her own little world and doesn't really pay attention in class. About 3 yrs ago her father tried to slit his throat with a butter knife in front of her when we had a fight. I'm sure she's been traumatized ever since but I only recently woke up from my own trauma (he slit his wrist in front of my children when they were about our daughter's age--his tactic to manipulate people is to attempt suicide, although with all his attempts, if he really wanted to die, he would have killed himself a long time ago), I only recently started going to therapy myself, and my therapist told me it sounded like my daughter is depressed. So I am arranging therapy for her, but unfortunately, there is a waiting list (don't know how it is in the States; we are living in Germany and there are waiting lists for children's therapy).

She also often has stomach aches and headaches. I should probably write more or post a thread myself, but right now I am so confused and full of rage and hatred and am not able to think clearly. I'll have to stop now because I am crying. I cannot deal with this. I don't know how to help my children or myself, although my older children seem to have their lives in order. My son is studying and my daughter plans to study. But she moved out when she was 18 because of my partner and has been living with her boyfriend for 2 years now. My older kids were still able to perform at school. I don't know what kind of future my daughter has.

Please leave, for her sake.


She deserves a better childhood than to deal with that crap. She's half grown up, make the next half better.

[Pingo]

Sunflower, so glad to hear how your son is doing so much better! One thing I have learned through all this craziness is how much stress/anxiety affects our physical bodies.  You comment about your ex being more PA with the ST's and all that. This can be sometimes worse than the overt rages. Have you read "Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men" by Lundy Bancroft? I highly recommend it. It's not an easy book to read but you may find it validating in ways that you can't imagine. Sometimes we dismiss abuse or don't even recognise abuse because it is covert yet it can be equally as damaging, if not more because we don't get the support we need.

AloneInChaos, I hope you do get therapy for your daughter and so glad you are getting it for yourself.  That is a terrible situation that you and your children are living in. I wish you the strength you will need and welcome to the forum!

Limbo, wow, I can relate to so much of your story. My ex wasn't overtly abusive to my s10 (his stepson) but he was stern and intolerant, full of advise about how I was too lenient and that children should be seen and not heard.  There was a couple of scenarios where he stepped over the line, reprimanding him for showing anger, once slamming his fist on the table to scare him.  I also feel guilt for allowing so much tension to go on in our house. My son is absolutely suffering right along side me trying to recover from this r/s. My ex never made any effort with my son. He used many excuses, one being that he didn't want to step on the toes of his bio dad's. It was all nonsense, his way of keeping him at arm's length. I have my son in counselling now and it is helping. He's an extremely sensitive boy, feels everyone's feelings (just like his mom), takes on the weight of the world.

[Tibbles]

I never realised how badly it was affecting our kids. I moved out about 2 years ago - the kids came with me and have gone NC too. My D 20 said a few weeks ago she feels like her life only began about a year ago. AloneInChaos my daughter also has had terrible problems with her stomach and it was only after I left that we realised it is stress related. She is much better now but the issue still lingers on for her. My 21 S has moved to another city to go to Uni and one of the reason was so that there was no chance at all of his Dad suddenly turning up on his door step. He is in therapy for anxiety and panic attacks and is bi-polar. Much of which I believe was triggered by the terrible home atmosphere in which he lived.  Hindsight is a wonderful thing but I wish so much for their sake I had moved out a good 10 years ago. However I wasn't strong enough to and am just so thankful that I eventually found the strength to go. Now my focus is on providing a safe home and stability for them. I want to give them a home they can come to whenever they need to, somewhere they will be accepted for who they are and just loved for who they are.

Both kids have come so far since I left - they are in such a better place am I am so very thankful for that. They are turning into wonderful young adults and while they are both scared by what they have been through, they have also developed amazing strengths from it too.

[Sunfl0wer]

I think you're absolutely right. My partner has BPD and our 9-year-old daughter is having problems in every single subject at school. Her teacher says she seems to be in her own little world and doesn't really pay attention in class. About 3 yrs ago her father tried to slit his throat with a butter knife in front of her when we had a fight. I'm sure she's been traumatized ever since but I only recently woke up from my own trauma (he slit his wrist in front of my children when they were about our daughter's age--his tactic to manipulate people is to attempt suicide, although with all his attempts, if he really wanted to die, he would have killed himself a long time ago), I only recently started going to therapy myself, and my therapist told me it sounded like my daughter is depressed. So I am arranging therapy for her, but unfortunately, there is a waiting list (don't know how it is in the States; we are living in Germany and there are waiting lists for children's therapy).

She also often has stomach aches and headaches. I should probably write more or post a thread myself, but right now I am so confused and full of rage and hatred and am not able to think clearly. I'll have to stop now because I am crying. I cannot deal with this. I don't know how to help my children or myself, although my older children seem to have their lives in order. My son is studying and my daughter plans to study. But she moved out when she was 18 because of my partner and has been living with her boyfriend for 2 years now. My older kids were still able to perform at school. I don't know what kind of future my daughter has.

I am so sorry that you daughter and you have had these experiences!  How traumatic!

How are you guys doing right now?

I'm glad the older ones are removed from the situation.

Is "your partner" and "her father" the same person?  Do you live with this person?

Is it possible or helpful if your daughter can temporarily use your current therapist while waiting?  More of a family session or solo or whatever your T thinks?

Since she is having trouble in school, have you been able to discuss this with someone at her school?

I was having issues in school due to trauma at home, and while they did not resolve my home trauma, it was good to know that if I was struggling, I could pop in the counselors office just to chat, get work done, or hid from the stress for a time out.  Sometimes they can even be more helpful than that.

Please share more when you are able.

[Sunfl0wer]

Hey rg,

Yea, it is tempting, maybe addicting is more accurate.  I am ashamed to admit that I have thought about what it would be like to date him again. 

I then try to remind myself what it would do to my son to see me with someone.  Besides the chest pains returning, he wouldn't trust me, he wouldn't respect me, and I would have less respect for myself.  My words and actions would be confusing to him, would be confusing to me and also the ex.

Ideally, I wish I could decide on my own that he is no good for me, but heck, I guess I care more about making good decisions for son and it is easier to decide that way than to make good decisions solely for myself.  Definitely something I still need to work on.

[Sunfl0wer]

Hey Limbo,

I always relate to your story as it seems similar to mine in many ways. This time specifically, the distance & retreating from my son that ex generally did.  Always tho, the confusing way that I love my ex, he is not a bad person.  He is just wounded, as I am wounded, as many of us are.  However, the difference is that his attachment wounds + genetic make up, left him in a different world of emotional development than myself.

I'm sorry that your son had to go through the general difficulties and worse incidents. It sounds like you carry the weight of your decisions as we all do. This feeling is what moved me to post.

Why did I allow it, why did I accept it? I gladly accepted my exw refusal that he be in our apt. It was almost a relief because when my son was around, the walking on eggshells became even more intense, because I was not able to control him.

I know what you mean.  Having my son and ex around together made my ex tense and my son tense and I think they both felt that pass between them both.  At the time, I just knew that life is always less stress when kids are not around, so the relief of when either had time away, just made sense to me.  Life is simplier when there are less variables to manage.  Now, however, I see it was more than just the math of an additional person.

Who knows but there is no stronger a reason as to why I am happy to be out of it, for his sake.

^^^^^^^  Yes!

I am glad that your son is doing well!

[Sunfl0wer]

Hey Pingo,

I just looked up and read a bit about "Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men"

The following quote rings most true for me:

"YOUR ABUSIVE PARTNER DOESN’T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH HIS ANGER; HE HAS A PROBLEM WITH YOUR ANGER."

This is definitely true of my ex!  I appreciate this perspective I've never considered. Happiness was the only feeling truly allowed of me. Anything else caused his dysregulation.

I am finding myself a bit confused though. I certainly agree with you that often covert abuse can be more damaging than overt abuse.  The area I'm confused, I suppose, is when reading literature that includes so many things that he didn't do.  I only relate to about 5-10% of this book.  It is the same for most other literature regarding abuse.  Likely this is because it is easier to publish to include all the more extreme forms?  Also, they often show a list of 30 emotional abuse strategies.  He mainly stuck to a few.  I recognize that this could appear that I am minimizing my situation, however, I am not.  I am currently struggling with the following ideas of my situation: 1. His abuse was "mild" however, I still seek validation.  2. How do we classify "abuse" when the "abuser" is not conscious of his damaging actions and affects and is in fact just immaturely reacting to his situation due to his own projections and false believes that his behavior is in his mind, "self-defense."  (Just because I hit him once, doesn't make me abusive, it was self defense, however HE thinks he was abused by ME that moment.  So I guess, even if we say that it is abuse if one person gets hurt, that all depends on who's reality we are using to judge this.  And if someone's reality matters to define abuse, then equally should we use it to deny?  A 3 yr old acting out isn't emotional abuse, yet sometimes his emotional abuse is on that level.)

I do not believe that my ex wanted to isolate me from the world, have me all to himself, he was not jealous.  His abuse was not so "global."  It was just in the home environment.  He did however, want to control my relationships with the kids.  He wanted to distance me from my son and keep his daughter on a pedestal.

[LimboFL]

HI Sunflower, I have been off the board these last couple of days. Thank you about my son.

The truly saddest part about the dynamic between my son and my ex was that I know they both loved each other. She so wanted to actually be close but simply couldn't get past her expectations of a young boy. I have mentioned it before that, if you were to pick up an actual parenting book, you would find so much of what she wanted me to implement. Those books are often written by people who were born parents, completely and totally committed to the task. I am not, at least in that sense. I love my son and tell him so every time we part company (my Father never did and I promised that I wouldn't do that to my son).

I educate him in all of the areas that I am well versed in. I have a love of the English language so I am always teaching him very expensive words and he uses the, very quickly. I also am always an adviser. In short, I am always there for him and always attentive as a Father. I am just not a "let's go fishing". He doesn't want that anyway. He wants to be with his buddies. He is an active kid. He does well in school but he is not interested in spending a quiet Sunday afternoon reading Moby Dick. My exBPDgf, this is what she expected so she was always critical.

Again, though, when he was living 50% with us, he would be working on a subject with which she had greater familiarity and I would have loved a little break here and there. I never expected her to drop everything, but she would not engage with him and help him through homework on a subject she was intimately familiar with.

Ultimately, though, it was just the tension. My son would ask if he could have friends sleep over. I always said no, because I just didn't want to chance it.

What is bothering me now, though, is that despite knowing all of the things I know, I can't get her out of my head. I don't miss her or at least know what I would be facing if we were still together but dammit, I can't purge her. I am not lamenting or sad, it's just there, playing like a broken record. It is very likely, to reach back to another of your posts, the desire to have someone to talk to about your day, to hug and kiss when you get home. I forget who posted the response but I like that poster love being in a committed relationship. I am not a player. I will be fine on my on, but I think we both like that. In fact, probably most of us on here want that.

Sorry rambling, I had a rough day (not related to the ex).



Sunflower, you and I both got out, so we should be thankful, for so so many reasons but at the top of it all is for our kids.