Hard Day Cont'd 8...

[MaroonLiquid]

What more can I do to make this r/s better that I haven't already done?  I feel I am showing what is healthy in this relationship and just when I think there is momentum, it's derailed by her.  I know that is part of her BPD traits, and I know I can only control myself which is what I am trying to do.  I feel I'm doing very well staying "steady in the boat" with her and have for 5 months.  I am also looking at behaviors from her to help with the "tools" and not invalidate.  Maybe I did the other morning when I asked her about two issues that I thought may be bothering her.  I thought (because of what she said to me at dinner that she was trying to let more things go and "let me in", she would open up to me and instead, went completely silent.  I did very well validating her last week which she told me she saw I was different, and now this.  I try and text her this morning to have a good day and that I love her because it is true.  Honestly, for 5 months I have consistently put myself out there and yet I feel more and more taken advantage of.  Now it's time to come to getting the "car situation" taken care of and she drops off the map.  Convenient and typical of her behavior these last five months.

GK, yes, that is what I'm saying.  It seems more diabolical, heinous and more abusive now.  :)oes that make sense?  Is it a "good thing" that she's trying to change her tactic?  It almost feels like she is trying to find my "button" and realizing there isn't one anymore.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[MaroonLiquid]

I'm sitting here in all my emotion balling my eyes out.  I'm so tired of getting my hopes up when my wife and I start talking again believing that it is getting better and then get smacked in the face again.  They are better in a way.  At first I tried to look at it as she didn't dysregulate in the normal outward rage and now I feel like this hurts worse.  Or maybe I'm not stuffing my emotion.  I don't know.  I know I'm doing the right things by the way I've changed.  I'm proud of myself for that.  What I don't like is I'm starting to feel anger and bitterness towards her and I hate that. 

[MaroonLiquid]

After crying for a little bit, I feel better.  I also feel I can't take much more emotionally from her and her pulling away.  It hurts.  It's abuse.  I don't know how to stop it... .I've done everything I can to change myself and the situation.  It is now up to her to change herself and her part of the r/s.  Not sure how much longer I can hold on in her current game playing/selfishness/unhealthiness... .

[rockgirl]

After crying for a little bit, I feel better.  I also feel I can't take much more emotionally from her and her pulling away.  It hurts.  It's abuse.  I don't know how to stop it... .I've done everything I can to change myself and the situation.  It is now up to her to change herself and her part of the r/s.  Not sure how much longer I can hold on in her current game playing/selfishness/unhealthiness... .

Sorry you're going through that. That devaluation part is awful. The extreme roller coaster ride takes its toll and leaves us devastated. We long for the days when they love us, and left in total devastation feeling like a fool, again. Where do we draw the line? When does the pain stop? I semester to have more questions than answers. Ultimately we have to decide where the line is, how much more are we willing to take? How much more of our lives will we spend this way?

Personal therapy for ourselves is necessary, we have to keep ourselves sane and healthy.

[Grey Kitty]

GK, yes, that is what I'm saying.  It seems more diabolical, heinous and more abusive now.  :)oes that make sense?  Is it a "good thing" that she's trying to change her tactic?  It almost feels like she is trying to find my "button" and realizing there isn't one anymore.

I don't believe that she's spending time thinking about how she can do that.

However, I do believe that her actions are following a script that is EXACTLY like that. It isn't self-aware or premeditated. Her actions are RIGHT ON TARGET too much for it to be a coincidence.

So yes, the only way to stop her from pushing your buttons is to change yourself so you don't have buttons anymore. Hard work.

What more can you do?

To save your marriage--not much more. You seem to be using the tools here and working on the lessons well. Have you read the workshop on the silent treatment?

BPD BEHAVIORS: Silent treatment - verbal abuse.

I remember crying when I first read it and realized how much I was trying to pretend that it didn't hurt.

 The only thing you can do more of is take good care of yourself and your children. And it is so hard to let yourself / make yourself do it. I know that one too well myself.

I also feel I can't take much more emotionally from her and her pulling away.  It hurts.  It's abuse.  I don't know how to stop it... .I've done everything I can to change myself and the situation.  It is now up to her to change herself and her part of the r/s.  Not sure how much longer I can hold on in her current game playing/selfishness/unhealthiness... .

That's a really hard place to be in. I understand. I was right up to my limit and ready to end my marriage over cheating a couple weeks ago. My wife blinked and backed down. We're still not out of the the woods. I was honestly ready to tell her that I was moving on, and just work on separating all our assets. Lots of tears in that. 

[Grey Kitty]

What I don't like is I'm starting to feel anger and bitterness towards her and I hate that. 

It is small comfort, but this is good too. It will help you to feel this, instead of stuffing it. It sure isn't pleasant.

The challenge is to allow yourself to feel it, and not allow yourself to lash out at her blindly in reaction to it. Well, at least try to stop it from getting completely out of control. There is some real POWER in expressing your anger, and there is a time and place to do it. There are things accomplished by doing exactly this. It is very powerful and stuff will get broken. Sometimes things need to be broken though.

(That last paragraph was way too vague. Clarity would be good, but I don't have more of it in me. If it happens, you will understand it in hindsight.)

[MaroonLiquid]

What I don't like is I'm starting to feel anger and bitterness towards her and I hate that.  

It is small comfort, but this is good too. It will help you to feel this, instead of stuffing it. It sure isn't pleasant.

The challenge is to allow yourself to feel it, and not allow yourself to lash out at her blindly in reaction to it. Well, at least try to stop it from getting completely out of control. There is some real POWER in expressing your anger, and there is a time and place to do it. There are things accomplished by doing exactly this. It is very powerful and stuff will get broken. Sometimes things need to be broken though.

(That last paragraph was way too vague. Clarity would be good, but I don't have more of it in me. If it happens, you will understand it in hindsight.)

I feel a lot "lighter", exhausted and yet have a little more clarity this evening.  Still dealing with "stuff".  Yes I've read the silent treatment thing a bunch.  I know I just need to lovingly pull back, detach and let her be.  Every time I've done that, it's almost like she can feel me "detaching" and can't stand it.  My sister even said that.  But then she pulls this.  It's almost like she plans it like a puppet master.  I know that is part of the "order to the disorder".  She has choice whether to do this or not.  She chooses to push/pull.  She chooses to get angry at me about something that she makes up in her mind that I'm guilty of.  These last five months, it's been all about her and her selfishness.  BPD traits or not, she MAKES that choice.  I'm tired of that and tired of putting all the blame on the "disorder".  One simple phrase, "Get some help!".  These are her issues, not mine.  

[123Phoebe]

 I'm tired of that and tired of putting all the blame on the "disorder".  One simple phrase, "Get some help!".  These are her issues, not mine.  

Then you don't make them your issues. 

Hold both of those personas (that you've mentioned) of your wife in your mind.  The one who will let you in and the one who will shut you out... .  They're both who she is and she might not ever get help.  Then respond according to your values, to what you hold near and dear to your heart... .  not hers... .yours.

The challenge is to allow yourself to feel it, and not allow yourself to lash out at her blindly in reaction to it. Well, at least try to stop it from getting completely out of control. There is some real POWER in expressing your anger, and there is a time and place to do it. There are things accomplished by doing exactly this. It is very powerful and stuff will get broken. Sometimes things need to be broken though.

(That last paragraph was way too vague. Clarity would be good, but I don't have more of it in me. If it happens, you will understand it in hindsight.)

I get it, Grey Kitty!   I know exactly what you're describing and it's the ONLY way through.

[MaroonLiquid]

I'm tired of that and tired of putting all the blame on the "disorder".  One simple phrase, "Get some help!".  These are her issues, not mine.  

Then you don't make them your issues.  

Hold both of those personas (that you've mentioned) of your wife in your mind.  The one who will let you in and the one who will shut you out... . They're both who she is and she might not ever get help.  Then respond according to your values, to what you hold near and dear to your heart... . not hers... .yours.

The challenge is to allow yourself to feel it, and not allow yourself to lash out at her blindly in reaction to it. Well, at least try to stop it from getting completely out of control. There is some real POWER in expressing your anger, and there is a time and place to do it. There are things accomplished by doing exactly this. It is very powerful and stuff will get broken. Sometimes things need to be broken though.

(That last paragraph was way too vague. Clarity would be good, but I don't have more of it in me. If it happens, you will understand it in hindsight.)

I get it, Grey Kitty!   I know exactly what you're describing and it's the ONLY way through.

Thanks Phoebe.  I was mostly venting and needed to get it out, but I hear you loud and clear.  I'm MUCH better this evening and honestly, I feel ok again.   I went to a team party for the softball team I coach and had a blast!  I needed that!  I remembered a conversation that my wife and I had last week that brought a little clarity earlier.  She told me that she would hear her mom (been here since mid October and staying through the new year at least) talk on the phone and tell people "things that weren't true or made up".  I validated how frustrating and embarrassing that could be at the time, but tonight, something hit me.  She told me that she tried to get her sister (lives four hours away) to convince her mom to stay with her until Christmas because my wife "needed a break".  According to my wife, her mom flat out told her no and that she was going back home with her.  She also accused her mom of parenting over the top of her and stuff to me.  I realize now that what is happening is what I believed would happen when I found out her mom was staying with her for a while.  I felt that she would actually start to see the truth about my wife and her struggling and has possibly started to confront her with it.  Why else would she want to let her stay at her sisters?  I spent time with my wife and her mother for 2 evenings last week and both times was extremely pleasant and we got along very well.  My wife never dysregulated, which was a step forward, but just went silent after she dropped me off and we kissed and said goodnight.  

[MaroonLiquid]

Last night at the end of season team softball party, I had a blast.  It was so much fun and it was extra special for me when one of my players (they are 11-12 YO) presented me with my gift for head coaching.  Sometimes the people you least expect to "buy in" to what you are "selling" as a coach and make an impact with end up surprising you.  I'm realizing that about life too.  Anyway, one of my players was picked to present me with my gift and she said some of the coolest things.  She said how she had taken some time off of softball for over a year because she had terrible experiences with coaches and it made her jaded towards the game.  She said that I helped bring the love for the game back in to her life and my competitive nature pushed her to be a better player/hitter and that she has improved because of what I have done for not only her but for the team.  She said, along with the team that they appreciated me as a person and as a coach.  She then presented my gift and gave me a big hug.  I was floored and honored at the same time.  Sometimes we get validated in the most odd of places.  In the spring and summer, I was really focused and almost felt guilty this season as I didn't feel I had put as much into it as I did before.  I thought that I didn't make much of an impact at all this season because of what has gone on with my wife and I, but I guess i was wrong.  I really needed that last night.  One thing about coaching and playing sports that I have always loved, is for that short period of time, I can solely focus on that and "forget" everything else.  I thank God for that. 

[sweetheart]

  MaroonLiquid,

My h is not someone who validates me in anyway, he's so absorbed in his own issues that there is very little left for anyone else. For me it took me a while to stop expecting reciprocal validation from my h, and now I no longer expect it, but there are other areas and people in my life that validate me. Being a parent validates me, I validate me , l like me and am able to find aspects of my life that bring me contentment,satisfaction and fulfilment.

I am really happy that you were validated by others, because so often for those of us that choose to stay with a pwBPD there is very often a lack of emotional balance that is weighted against those without the disorder.

You have been working so hard these many months to change your interactions with your wife, but as you have found it is exhausting and frustrating and infuriating so much of the time.

Finding validation, positivity and fulfilment outside my marriage as well as learning to live within a different kind of relationship has been crucial in helping me stay with my h. My expectations have become more realistic about just what my h is actually capable of emotionally.

I hope you find many other ways to experience lots more positivity and validation like you found last night MaroonLiquid, whatever way this journey plays out for you with your wife.

[rockgirl]

Last night at the end of season team softball party, I had a blast.  It was so much fun and it was extra special for me when one of my players (they are 11-12 YO) presented me with my gift for head coaching.  Sometimes the people you least expect to "buy in" to what you are "selling" as a coach and make an impact with end up surprising you.  I'm realizing that about life too.  Anyway, one of my players was picked to present me with my gift and she said some of the coolest things.  She said how she had taken some time off of softball for over a year because she had terrible experiences with coaches and it made her jaded towards the game.  She said that I helped bring the love for the game back in to her life and my competitive nature pushed her to be a better player/hitter and that she has improved because of what I have done for not only her but for the team.  She said, along with the team that they appreciated me as a person and as a coach.  She then presented my gift and gave me a big hug.  I was floored and honored at the same time.  Sometimes we get validated in the most odd of places.  In the spring and summer, I was really focused and almost felt guilty this season as I didn't feel I had put as much into it as I did before.  I thought that I didn't make much of an impact at all this season because of what has gone on with my wife and I, but I guess i was wrong.  I really needed that last night.  One thing about coaching and playing sports that I have always loved, is for that short period of time, I can solely focus on that and "forget" everything else.  I thank God for that. 

It feels great when the hard work and efforts are worthwhile, which is opposite of our r/s with bpss. All we can do is our best! Awesome work being a coach, it takes a lot of hard work. I know the feeling as I'm a teacher and my students haven't gotten the my best because I'm a mess inside due to the complexities of my marriage to a BPD as well as my 16 yo son with issues. I work at a therapeutic school for troubled teens, so I feel like my entire life revolves around helping damaged people. It's stressful but also gives me hope because I do see growth... .and I do get appreciated at work. I'm every one's rock, but falling apart inside! Really  need someone who is there for me once in awhile.

[MaroonLiquid]

My wife lost a stillborn baby years ago right at Christmas.  Every Christmas season she struggles bad with this.  I was reminded of it and it is one of her things she struggles with.  I know she is giving me the silent treatment, but do you think it's wise to try and let her know that I'm thinking of her during this time?

[Grey Kitty]

My wife lost a stillborn baby years ago right at Christmas.  Every Christmas season she struggles bad with this.  I was reminded of it and it is one of her things she struggles with.  I know she is giving me the silent treatment, but do you think it's wise to try and let her know that I'm thinking of her during this time?

You know her a heck of a lot better than we do. Follow your heart.

Can you reach out with something letting her know that you remember and care about her loss... .in a way that doesn't call for her to acknowledge it or respond to it?

[MaroonLiquid]

My wife lost a stillborn baby years ago right at Christmas.  Every Christmas season she struggles bad with this.  I was reminded of it and it is one of her things she struggles with.  I know she is giving me the silent treatment, but do you think it's wise to try and let her know that I'm thinking of her during this time?

You know her a heck of a lot better than we do. Follow your heart.

Can you reach out with something letting her know that you remember and care about her loss... .in a way that doesn't call for her to acknowledge it or respond to it?

I just found out the whole story last year as she would never open up to me about it until last Thanksgiving and would just say, it was very difficult.  After she told me, I bought her a Christmas gift called Angel's Embrace that was an angel holding a newborn baby.  Her mom and her cried hard when she opened it.  The story is heartbreaking.  She told me that when the baby was born, they asked if she wanted to hold him and she said, "No."  She said to this day, she doesn't understand why she didn't and the guilt eats at her all the time.  I couldn't imagine having to face that.  There was only three people who knew that other than me when she told me.  Her ex husband, her and her mother.  I asked her why she didn't tell me and she said she didn't think I would understand or something.  I just held her and we cried together.  When she told me, I realize now how fragile and scary that must have been for her to trust me with that.  I cried earlier thinking about it.

[Grey Kitty]

After she told me, I bought her a Christmas gift called Angel's Embrace that was an angel holding a newborn baby.  Her mom and her cried hard when she opened it.  The story is heartbreaking.  She told me that when the baby was born, they asked if she wanted to hold him and she said, "No."  She said to this day, she doesn't understand why she didn't and the guilt eats at her all the time. 

 I told you that you knew what to do. You can't repeat that one exactly, but you can do something similar. You might find just the right card. Go looking for something appropriate and you will find it.

Just do it.

[MaroonLiquid]

After she told me, I bought her a Christmas gift called Angel's Embrace that was an angel holding a newborn baby.  Her mom and her cried hard when she opened it.  The story is heartbreaking.  She told me that when the baby was born, they asked if she wanted to hold him and she said, "No."  She said to this day, she doesn't understand why she didn't and the guilt eats at her all the time.

 I told you that you knew what to do. You can't repeat that one exactly, but you can do something similar. You might find just the right card. Go looking for something appropriate and you will find it.

Just do it.

Last night, I went Christmas shopping and saw some friends of ours (hers before we were married) that have known her for like 20 years.  They were caught off guard when they saw me and I could tell they didn't quite know what to say.  They weren't rude at all (actually like them as they are very good people), but I could see the wheels turning of what my wife probably told them.  Oh well.  I can't change that, but did feel like I was pariah at first and when I left, shook it off and just told myself, they only know one side.  I kept it light as I didn't want them to feel weird (even though I could tell they did) and they said I've lost a ton of weight and looked good.  I thanked them and asked about their kids as one of them is about to leave for college.  We talked for a few and wished each other a Merry Christmas.  I was waiting for them to bring up the separation, but the subject was never broached.  They were her friends before we were married.  They were the first friends of hers that I've seen and it made some more of the reality of what she has done real.  :)oes that make sense?  It started to hurt a little that I have probably been slandered and painted black to so many of her peers and I just had to stuff those for now.  I'm honestly not ready to deal with that yet.  I'm beginning to see why she can't be around me for long.  She begins to see that what she has said about me is not true.  I don't know how that gets fixed later.  Once they get help and work on the marriage, do they tell them the truth or do they usually cut ties with those people to not have to deal with it?  Or is it a mixture of the two?  Just curious.

[MaroonLiquid]

After she told me, I bought her a Christmas gift called Angel's Embrace that was an angel holding a newborn baby.  Her mom and her cried hard when she opened it.  The story is heartbreaking.  She told me that when the baby was born, they asked if she wanted to hold him and she said, "No."  She said to this day, she doesn't understand why she didn't and the guilt eats at her all the time.

 I told you that you knew what to do. You can't repeat that one exactly, but you can do something similar. You might find just the right card. Go looking for something appropriate and you will find it.

Just do it.

Last night, I went Christmas shopping and saw some friends of ours (hers before we were married) that have known her for like 20 years.  They were caught off guard when they saw me and I could tell they didn't quite know what to say.  They weren't rude at all (actually like them as they are very good people), but I could see the wheels turning of what my wife probably told them.  Oh well.  I can't change that, but did feel like I was pariah at first and when I left, shook it off and just told myself, they only know one side.  I kept it light as I didn't want them to feel weird (even though I could tell they did) and they said I've lost a ton of weight and looked good.  I thanked them and asked about their kids as one of them is about to leave for college.  We talked for a few and wished each other a Merry Christmas.  I was waiting for them to bring up the separation, but the subject was never broached.  They were her friends before we were married.  They were the first friends of hers that I've seen and it made some more of the reality of what she has done real.  :)oes that make sense?  It started to hurt a little that I have probably been slandered and painted black to so many of her peers and I just had to stuff those for now.  I'm honestly not ready to deal with that yet.  I'm beginning to see why she can't be around me for long.  She begins to see that what she has said about me is not true.  I don't know how that gets fixed later.  Once they get help and work on the marriage, do they tell them the truth or do they usually cut ties with those people to not have to deal with it?  Or is it a mixture of the two?  Just curious.

One more thing, is there a good way to set a boundary regarding the silent treatment during the silent treatment or do you do that after communication opens up again?

[Grey Kitty]

Last night, I went Christmas shopping and saw some friends of ours (hers before we were married) that have known her for like 20 years.  They were caught off guard when they saw me and I could tell they didn't quite know what to say.  

Remember all this:

 Your wife likely said HORRIBLE things to these people about you.

 They have know your wife for a long time. They've known you for a long time too.

This may not be the first thing they have heard from your wife that didn't end up matching their reality.

Allow them space to think about it, and draw their own conclusions.

In the end, if this happened a bunch of places... .which is likely... .you will probably be pleasantly surprised by some of the people who end up supporting you and believing you. Some may even still like your wife even if they don't believe her in some ways.

I'm beginning to see why she can't be around me for long.  She begins to see that what she has said about me is not true.  I don't know how that gets fixed later.  Once they get help and work on the marriage, do they tell them the truth or do they usually cut ties with those people to not have to deal with it?  Or is it a mixture of the two?  Just curious.

Can't answer that. It is your wife's choice. She will do what she will!

I would note that the 'usual' BPD pattern is to decide to paint somebody white, and pretend that they were never painted black in the first place. 'Easier' than telling the truth 

One more thing, is there a good way to set a boundary regarding the silent treatment during the silent treatment or do you do that after communication opens up again?

Sorry... .the only boundary enforcement I know of for the silent treatment is to end the relationship to protect yourself from it. I know that isn't the solution you are looking for. 'Tho if you hit this point, it won't matter whether communications have opened up again or not.

 Hang in there!

[MaroonLiquid]

So I just found out my nephew was diagnosed with Autism on his second birthday today.  I texted my wife to let her know and she didn't effing respond to my text.  Not one damm thing, and not even an FU!  Are you effing kidding me?  Silent treatment or not, that is almost unforgivable.  That is her SIL and her 2 year old nephew and she can't even respond to me?  WOW!  That is so beyond hurtful.  That is so beyond abuse and can't even fathom being that cruel.  As if it isn't enough to be hurting for my sister and my nephew, she has to stick the knife in deeper.  If she doesn't respond to me or text my sister today, that's it for me.  I'm not kidding.

[Grey Kitty]

  It is messed up.

And it has nothing to do with you.

Your wife has pretty close to zero emotional capacity for challenging situations, and has plenty of more urgent ones to deal with than this right now.

More important is my final word on this: Your feelings real, and are justified. Never doubt it.

If you can, spend a little more time with the feelings. (Not the actions you are ready to take with your wife)

[MaroonLiquid]

 It is messed up.

And it has nothing to do with you.

Your wife has pretty close to zero emotional capacity for challenging situations, and has plenty of more urgent ones to deal with than this right now.

More important is my final word on this: Your feelings real, and are justified. Never doubt it.

If you can, spend a little more time with the feelings. (Not the actions you are ready to take with your wife)

I'm calm now.  I came back down from that emotional ledge.  I'll be honest GK, I was angry as hell.  I know it's not about me, but that is horrible.  I couldn't imagine what she would do if the situation were reversed.  It wouldn't happen because I'm not that devoid of caring/feeling.  I'm hurt that this is the same woman who spent hours starting/maintaining a Facebook page for a friend of hers that was diagnosed with breast cancer last year, set up a meal schedule to be delivered to her home when she was going through several bouts of chemo and even put together a fundraiser for her. What is more urgent than to respond when your spouse texts you and says to please pray for their nephew who was just diagnosed with something like that?  Even to just say, I will pray.  I can't fathom not at least answering.

[MaroonLiquid]

Im thinking she may have me blocked on texts.  Maybe I'm giving her too much credit.

[MaroonLiquid]

So, while sitting here with my anger/resentment/hurt today, I realized several things.  

    First, the feeling of being used came up.  :)uring this separation she has "taken" pretty much everything she can and yet makes "promises" that she never keeps.  She sat at the table last week and we agreed that we wanted to do the right thing and get things situated so neither of us feel used and then once these things are out of the way, work on "us".  So far, she hasn't kept her word regarding anything these last five months and I have done everything to be loving and care for her.  

    Second, I'm having a hard time believing that she would ignore my text regarding my nephew's diagnosis.  I can't fully go there.  Maybe I'm lying to myself, but I have to think that she has blocked me from text, because I can't believe someone could be that heartless as to not respond, no matter how mad you are.  I know she is not well right now, but no matter how sick someone is, there has to be something inside of you that says, "Not texting is not the right thing to do."  Again, GK, you made the statement that she has more important matters she needs to focus on.  Can you explain that?  :)idn't quite understand that.  

     BTW, I'm much better tonight and am not near as angry.  More hurt than anything.  I will get over it, but a lot of resentment and bitterness is starting to set in.  I have given till I'm about used up.  She has all the benefits of a marriage without any of the responsibility.  I feel like I'm just continuing to be run over.

[Mutt]

I'm sorry she's invalidating without giving a response MaroonLiquid. I'm also sorry to hear about your nephew. It's hard.

I'd like to offer my point of view. Your a sympathetic and logical man and coming from a place of reason and logic.

Your W has a mental illness.

Facts then feelings? What are the facts? Nephew with a diagnosis. Your not hearing from your ex. What are the feelings?  Confusion, rejection, hurt. What else do you feel?

To your wife feelings = facts. What is she feeling?

[Grey Kitty]

Your not hearing from your ex. What are the feelings?  Confusion, rejection, hurt. What else do you feel?

Maroon, I'm asking you to sit with these feelings, experience them, and notice which other ones are in there too.

So, while sitting here with my anger/resentment/hurt today, I realized several things.

... .and yet makes "promises" that she never keeps.  She sat at the table last week and we agreed that we wanted to do the right thing and get things situated so neither of us feel used and then once these things are out of the way, work on "us".  So far, she hasn't kept her word regarding anything these last five months

This is a good example of what you can find when you do sit with your feelings.

What do you do with this now that you've found it? I get two conclusions from this:

1. Your wife promises to do good things. She does have good intentions toward you and your marriage.

2. Your wife isn't capable of living up to these promises.

Next time she makes one, try to listen to it differently. Hear that she WANTS to do the right thing. Believe that she will try. Don't expect her to succeed, especially if she's made a similar promise before and failed many times.

That doesn't mean to say something invalidating about how you don't believe her or she always fails.

It means accept that she is this way, and does this.

It means think long and hard... .about how you can 'change the game' so that your marriage with her can improve... .in a way that doesn't require her to do something she isn't capable of doing, and doesn't have the self-knowledge to avoid promising to do the impossible.

[MaroonLiquid]

I'm sorry she's invalidating without giving a response MaroonLiquid. I'm also sorry to hear about your nephew. It's hard.

I'd like to offer my point of view. Your a sympathetic and logical man and coming from a place of reason and logic.

Your W has a mental illness.

Facts then feelings? What are the facts? Nephew with a diagnosis. Your not hearing from your ex. What are the feelings?  Confusion, rejection, hurt. What else do you feel?

To your wife feelings = facts. What is she feeling?

My wife is going through several things.  She has a surgery next week.  She is feeling scared, nervous and alone probably.  It's the holidays.  My wife usually feels overwhelmed, the emotion of the child she lost is there, doesn't like what's going on between us (told me this), hates herself, doesn't know how to handle any of this.  That's just a start.

Your not hearing from your ex. What are the feelings?  Confusion, rejection, hurt. What else do you feel?

Maroon, I'm asking you to sit with these feelings, experience them, and notice which other ones are in there too.

So, while sitting here with my anger/resentment/hurt today, I realized several things.

... .and yet makes "promises" that she never keeps.  She sat at the table last week and we agreed that we wanted to do the right thing and get things situated so neither of us feel used and then once these things are out of the way, work on "us".  So far, she hasn't kept her word regarding anything these last five months

This is a good example of what you can find when you do sit with your feelings.

What do you do with this now that you've found it? I get two conclusions from this:

1. Your wife promises to do good things. She does have good intentions toward you and your marriage.

2. Your wife isn't capable of living up to these promises.

Next time she makes one, try to listen to it differently. Hear that she WANTS to do the right thing. Believe that she will try. Don't expect her to succeed, especially if she's made a similar promise before and failed many times.

That doesn't mean to say something invalidating about how you don't believe her or she always fails.

It means accept that she is this way, and does this.

It means think long and hard... .about how you can 'change the game' so that your marriage with her can improve... .in a way that doesn't require her to do something she isn't capable of doing, and doesn't have the self-knowledge to avoid promising to do the impossible.

Which other feelings are in there.  I'll be honest, I'm scared she is too far gone to come back.  I'm scared for the kids.  I'm fearful of never having a normal relationship with my wife ever again (don't want it the way it was before, but a healthy one).  I'm fearful that she doesn't care about me or my kids.  

You ask me to look at her actions and here's what I see:

1. She takes things from me that are important to me or keeps from making good decisions that will help moving forward with life, and doesn't mean without her (i.e. laptop which caused me to drop this semester, car which gave me no transportation until she "offered the van when I got her family involved).

    A.  This tells me that she can't handle the thought of me moving on without her and that is the only way to keep me from doing the inevitable (in her mind I'm going to abandon her because that is what men in her life have always done).  This is her way of controlling things but yet is completely not reasonable and out of control which could cause abandonment in the end, which is that whole self-fulfilling prophecy thing coming into play.

         1.  I would say that maybe she doesn't want me to have anything and that is why she has taken those things, but that would go against everything she did throughout our marriage as she was very giving.

         2.  I could say that this is her way of getting me to file for divorce, but again, that doesn't necessarily fit either because she had no problem following through with divorcing her ex-husband.

         3.  I could also say that she feels she can do whatever she wants to me and knows I will always be there.  That would make me a chump, and honestly, this has more of a chance of being true than 1 and 2.  Maybe it's A and 3 combined... .

2.  She made the statement right before she took my car that her issues run deeper than she ever thought.

    A.  What that tells me is dealing with her issues scares her to death... .

GIve me some time to see what else I can come up with.

       

[Grey Kitty]

I want to point out the silver lining you mentioned in that very very very dark cloud of her actions and words.

Yes, she is treating you badly. Yes, she is doing things to try to control you. Yes, her actions are confused and scattered. and crazy-making. That is the cloud and it is real.

THIS is the silver lining.

... .getting me to file for divorce, but again, that doesn't necessarily fit either because she had no problem following through with divorcing her ex-husband.

She is capable of turning away from you and never looking back. She hasn't.

I wouldn't call it a loud and clear heart-felt profession of love... . 

Today it may be as close as she gets.

I remember a day you described her being open, warm, and loving to you, in the last week or so. There will be more. You know she's all over the place emotionally.

[MaroonLiquid]

I want to point out the silver lining you mentioned in that very very very dark cloud of her actions and words.

Yes, she is treating you badly. Yes, she is doing things to try to control you. Yes, her actions are confused and scattered. and crazy-making. That is the cloud and it is real.

THIS is the silver lining.

... .getting me to file for divorce, but again, that doesn't necessarily fit either because she had no problem following through with divorcing her ex-husband.

She is capable of turning away from you and never looking back. She hasn't.

I wouldn't call it a loud and clear heart-felt profession of love... . 

Today it may be as close as she gets.

I remember a day you described her being open, warm, and loving to you, in the last week or so. There will be more. You know she's all over the place emotionally.

You're right and that is definitely a silver lining.  She is definitely all over the place emotionally, and do feel bad for her in the respect of her not being well.  It must be a living hell to shut out the man that has shown you over and over again that he loves you and is here for you.  I went and found her sentimental gift today and hope she likes it.  I texted the kids to see what they wanted for Christmas with no response, which doesn't surprise me as they usually don't.  She may have me blocked on their phone or it just may be too awkward for them.  I don't know.

[formflier]

 

Maroon,

I haven't posted in your thread in a while... .just read a lot of them... .this is a gut reaction. 

I think Mutt is on to something... .

You are a logical guy... .you are trying to figure out the logic... .and there is some... there is an order to the disorder... .

But... here is the thing... .you have figured it out.  You understand it... .any further time "figuring"... is most likely wasted and that energy is better spent somewhere else.

I also am getting the vibe or idea that you need to spend more time with your emotions... .let them flow.  Deal with them... .feel them... don't blame others... .don't blame yourself... .feel what you are feeling.

Maybe another angle... .or quicker thought... .I think you are spending too much time "logicing" (brand new word!) and not enough time feeling.

Thoughts?