Would you have quit?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello All,

I have a very unfair question - just so you know.

I'm in a relationship with my GF (BPD) for a bit more than 1 year now. We both are in our mid-forties. We do not share a house (yet), we have no kids together, we have no real mutual friends. We are both financial independent of each other. We life an hour away from each other. So if I would say it is over, it really can be over without any nasty consequences. It will be difficult emotionally because I do love a part of her very much. But it is a part that most of the time is hidden. And I do not say it lithely, that I do love her.

So my question, if you, and by 'you' I mean people that are in a long relationship with somebody with BPD, would have known what you know now, would you have quit?

Don't worry, I will not use your thoughts or advise in any way to base my decisions on. My decisions are my own.

[T0M]

Hello All,

I have a very unfair question - just so you know.

I'm in a relationship with my GF (BPD) for a bit more than 1 year now. We both are in our mid-forties. We do not share a house (yet), we have no kids together, we have no real mutual friends. We are both financial independent of each other. We life an hour away from each other. So if I would say it is over, it really can be over without any nasty consequences. It will be difficult emotionally because I do love a part of her very much. But it is a part that most of the time is hidden. And I do not say it lithely, that I do love her.

So my question, if you, and by 'you' I mean people that are in a long relationship with somebody with BPD, would have known what you know now, would you have quit?

Don't worry, I will not use your thoughts or advise in any way to base my decisions on. My decisions are my own.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Cat Familiar]

Definitely if I’d known, I’d never have gotten involved with my ex-husband. With my current husband, even if I’d known beforehand, I might still have moved forward with the relationship.

[thankful person]

Tom, I have been with my wife for seven years. We are a lesbian couple and have two babies who are biologically hers but legally mine too. I knew my wife had a bpd diagnosis before we met. I had always been drawn to mental illness and people who had any kind of issues. My wife was in a very dark place when we met. I’d always felt I needed someone to really need me to make my own existence worthwhile. And then I found her. I left a “happy” “stable” 14 year relationship with a man I loved, gave up my cat, my home, my work, my friends, my new country, and moved half way across the world, (back home) for her. I hated myself for breaking his heart. She still tells me I’m not romantic enough.
A few months ago, when I first joined here, I do believe that I’ve said I may have found the strength to leave, had I found this forum, before marriage, before kids… Our children make me so happy (children was something my ex denied me). I was terrified for their future mental health with my wife’s controlling and jealous behaviour.
But I have had so much support and advice on here. Our relationship has turned a corner. I am so much happier. My wife is so much calmer. My children have been experiencing a pretty normal childhood. There is occasional screeching but nothing near what it was. I am so hopeful for our future as a family at the moment. So I wouldn’t change a thing.
The main things I have changed are not arguing with my wife, validating her feelings, and doing more self care and things for myself which she had previously said she didn’t want me doing.
I highly recommend the book, “stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist”. It has been life-changing for me. I was able to let go of the guilt I felt for leaving my ex, upon realising that I was also a caretaker for him (hence why I still felt guilty seven years later).
I feel like, with my positivity, people wouldn’t quite believe the darkness that I’ve just come out of. You can look back on my story if you’re interested. I never thought I would be this happy.
And these people on here are the most amazing group of people I have ever come across. All the best.

[T0M]

Definitely if I’d known, I’d never have gotten involved with my ex-husband. With my current husband, even if I’d known beforehand, I might still have moved forward with the relationship.

Thanks for sharing.
If I understand correctly, both your ex and current husbands have BPD?
Can you share why you say that you would definitely not re-marry your ex but have doubts with your current husband?

[T0M]

Tom, I have been with my wife for seven years. We are a lesbian couple and have two babies who are biologically hers but legally mine too. I knew my wife had a bpd diagnosis before we met. I had always been drawn to mental illness and people who had any kind of issues. My wife was in a very dark place when we met. I’d always felt I needed someone to really need me to make my own existence worthwhile. And then I found her. I left a “happy” “stable” 14 year relationship with a man I loved, gave up my cat, my home, my work, my friends, my new country, and moved half way across the world, (back home) for her. I hated myself for breaking his heart. She still tells me I’m not romantic enough.
A few months ago, when I first joined here, I do believe that I’ve said I may have found the strength to leave, had I found this forum, before marriage, before kids… Our children make me so happy (children was something my ex denied me). I was terrified for their future mental health with my wife’s controlling and jealous behaviour.
But I have had so much support and advice on here. Our relationship has turned a corner. I am so much happier. My wife is so much calmer. My children have been experiencing a pretty normal childhood. There is occasional screeching but nothing near what it was. I am so hopeful for our future as a family at the moment. So I wouldn’t change a thing.
The main things I have changed are not arguing with my wife, validating her feelings, and doing more self care and things for myself which she had previously said she didn’t want me doing.
I highly recommend the book, “stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist”. It has been life-changing for me. I was able to let go of the guilt I felt for leaving my ex, upon realising that I was also a caretaker for him (hence why I still felt guilty seven years later).
I feel like, with my positivity, people wouldn’t quite believe the darkness that I’ve just come out of. You can look back on my story if you’re interested. I never thought I would be this happy.
And these people on here are the most amazing group of people I have ever come across. All the best.

That certainly brings a message of hope.
But I also read that you, being a caretaker, are somewhat ok with giving loads of validation, and you probably get some energy out of the fact that you are 'helping' someone.

What I'm trying to say that staying in a relationship probably also depends on the non-BPD partners character? I'm very independent. I don't like people who feel like things are 'done' to them rather than things just happen. People who can not rationalize that we ( first world country) are living in the best place and best time in the history of mankind. That sounds very pompous and I have my bad days also, but these thoughts help me to overcome most if not all bad days.

Can you imagine me explaining this to my GF with BPD  It was before I knew she was BPD. 

[Cat Familiar]

Thanks for sharing.
If I understand correctly, both your ex and current husbands have BPD?
Can you share why you say that you would definitely not re-marry your ex but have doubts with your current husband?

In addition to the BPD, my first husband was likely a narcissistic sociopath: constant infidelity, physical violence, substance abuse, financial irresponsibility, criminal behavior.

The second is genuinely a nice guy. It’s just that the BPD issues can be ever present and there is no way to have a truly normal and reciprocal relationship. It’s close to that, but I have to be ever mindful not to say anything that he could take as a criticism. Also he is alarmed if he senses that I’m upset with him but am not talking about it—a very Catch-22 situation.

[T0M]

In addition to the BPD, my first husband was likely a narcissistic sociopath: constant infidelity, physical violence, substance abuse, financial irresponsibility, criminal behavior.

The second is genuinely a nice guy. It’s just that the BPD issues can be ever present and there is no way to have a truly normal and reciprocal relationship. It’s close to that, but I have to be ever mindful not to say anything that he could take as a criticism. Also he is alarmed if he senses that I’m upset with him but am not talking about it—a very Catch-22 situation.

Clear! Thanks for the clarification.
I understand why there is a big difference between the two situations.

[mitten]

I'm simply going to say, you have to decide if you can live with them acting like this the rest of your life, knowing they most likely will NOT change.  This is a lifelong problem.  Once you get married, buy a house, have kids this decision gets much harder to make.  It's also likely that your BPD GF is going to need things to make her feel secure in your commitment to her, so she'll start asking soon for engagement, buying a house together, etc.  I'd figure out what you want for your life before this starts happening so you can make a clear headed decision for yorself! 

[Good Intentions]

I'm simply going to say, you have to decide if you can live with them acting like this the rest of your life, knowing they most likely will NOT change.  This is a lifelong problem.  Once you get married, buy a house, have kids this decision gets much harder to make.  It's also likely that your BPD GF is going to need things to make her feel secure in your commitment to her, so she'll start asking soon for engagement, buying a house together, etc.  I'd figure out what you want for your life before this starts happening so you can make a clear headed decision for yorself! 

Your words are spot on, and are eerily similar to insight that I received from my therapist just this week...

My 27 y/o GF with diagnosed BPD has repeatedly expressed interest in making some level of commitment to personal growth & tackling (or at least better managing) her BPD. But the new neural pathways that need to form in order for her to be a healthy partner to me - skills like empathy, forgiveness, calmness & respect even when you've been triggered - take a pretty tremendous amount of time, focus/attention, effort, and dedication to establish.

Keep in mind - pwBPD are faced with the challenge of trying to override a mental state that was engrained in their most formative years and has likely existed for decades...to me, that implies that it will take not months but years
 to start perceiving emotional experiences in a different way. And as you point out @mitten - BPD is a lifelong illness even if the symptoms are being managed effectively.

My GF & I have been together for almost 4 years, and there have been various moments in our relationship where I've felt her needing the sense of security that comes from my commitment to her (in the form of engagement or buying a house). But at the same time, the strength of my commitment to her can also be something that causes her to push me away as she starts to feel engulfed by the "need" to be an unselfish, unconditionally loving, empathetic partner to me as her potential husband.

She knows that she can't fulfill that need of mine which in the last two weeks led to her breaking up with me. I believe it's her own fear of abandonment driving her decision making - to avoid what she most fears (me abandoning her) she literally does it to me first so she can "paint me black" and thereby justify the illogical action of breaking up with me in the first place.

I love this woman to death and I fully accept her BPD. I want to work with her, encourage her, hold her accountable, and ultimately raise a family with her. I've done my absolute best to present what I've experienced in our relationship in as kind & soft & loving of a tone as I can muster, and if I'm not the best person to help her understand how her BPD manifests in relationships, I don't know who is.

But one thing I've learned most in this journey is that my effort alone is not enough. Me having the motivation to change and grow and evolve is not enough. It truly is all about the pwBPD's commitment to radical acceptance. And it's a really heartbreaking, helpless feeling when you realize that someone you intensely love may not even understand the problem they're faced with.

[mitten]

She knows that she can't fulfill that need of mine which in the last two weeks led to her breaking up with me. I believe it's her own fear of abandonment driving her decision making - to avoid what she most fears (me abandoning her) she literally does it to me first so she can "paint me black" and thereby justify the illogical action of breaking up with me in the first place.

Sorry to hear you're having to go through the pain of this break up.  4 years is a long time!  I know I was married and had a house with my uBPDw at 4 years, but didn't connect the dots to BPD until YEAR 7!  Simply having the understanding of BPD helps so much in making informed decisions.  I often wonder how life would be different if I knew it sooner, while we were dating. 

Also, I think you're onto something about your GF breaking up with you and painting you black, as maybe she was nervous that you would leave her.  My wife broke up with a long time boyfriend after 9 years or so for no apparent reason, her family adored him, etc.  I kind of suspect this fear of abandonment was the reason, however.

[Good Intentions]

@mitten

I really appreciate your support. And you're absolutely right that knowledge & understanding of BPD is so critical to achieving any sort of peace of mind...after all, it's a very complex mental disorder.

When you say that you often wonder how life would have been different if you discovered the "answer" (BPD) sooner, do you mean that you may not have decided to buy the house or get married? Or just that you wish you would've have the BPD resources at your disposal sooner?

Because I'm with you on the latter - I often wonder "what if I would've cracked this code in year 2? or even year 3! Would she still be breaking up with me or would we be in a much better place?" But it's a moot point, and I don't spend too much time thinking about it.

[mitten]

When you say that you often wonder how life would have been different if you discovered the "answer" (BPD) sooner, do you mean that you may not have decided to buy the house or get married? Or just that you wish you would've have the BPD resources at your disposal sooner?

Because I'm with you on the latter - I often wonder "what if I would've cracked this code in year 2? or even year 3! Would she still be breaking up with me or would we be in a much better place?" But it's a moot point, and I don't spend too much time thinking about it.

I mean I saw red flags when we were dating (before I knew what BPD was) but I chalked it up to my lack of experience dating and my anxiety.  I figured there wasn't a  "bad enough" reason to think they weren't "the one".  People would have thought I was insane to break it off- she's beautiful, attractive, intelligent, outgoing, successful.  And there was always hope that once I fully committed in marriage that she would finally know how much I loved her and all the other problems would go away...  well it doesn't really work like that with BPD.  I still love her and I'm happy in life but it's not easy. 

So now that your GF said she is done with you.  What do you want?  If your relationship is "constantly on life support" as your profile says, what do you think it would be like if we got back together and got married? 

[thankful person]

That certainly brings a message of hope.
But I also read that you, being a caretaker, are somewhat ok with giving loads of validation, and you probably get some energy out of the fact that you are 'helping' someone.

Tom, I have indeed always loved caring for children through my work and now parenting my own. Adults, not so much. I always desperately wanted to help someone, a friend, for someone to need me, before I met my wife. And then I met her and she gave me an overdose of need. Long story short, I gave up all other friends. And I don’t really regret it because I realise how little I’ve ever got back from friends. So I tried to help my wife in the early days, with her eating disorder and self harm. She managed to “get better” but I somehow doubt that I really helped.. but I stuck around. I don’t think she sees me as much help now. So I don’t get much back. I’m here for the kids, but also challenging myself to make things better, without her input. I think after seven years, I was ready to accept that the responsibility to improve things was mine. People talk about bpd commitment, etc. My wife went through dbt therapy. It helped with the self harm. But the rest.. she doesn’t see that there is a problem with her, only everyone else. Coming on here and learning all this, it’s helped me to let go of the hope that she can and might decide to change. She has changed but that is because of me. So I guess it’s up to you whether you want to risk the likely possibility that your partner may never see that she needs to work on herself in order to improve your relationship. Hold on to your sanity. I know it sounds obvious… but to use your example of your basket ball nights that she wants you to give up. It is a slippery slope when you start thinking to yourself, “I’m going to give up this thing I love… because it’s an easier option than dealing with my partner getting angry and upset all the time…” You feel like you’re in control when you tell yourself such things. But I’m sure you know that. End of the day, I think for each bpd there is a level of caretaking they require… and if you don’t serve that role then the relationship will fail. And that’s why they have so many failed relationships.

[T0M]

I'm simply going to say, you have to decide if you can live with them acting like this the rest of your life, knowing they most likely will NOT change.  This is a lifelong problem.  Once you get married, buy a house, have kids this decision gets much harder to make.  It's also likely that your BPD GF is going to need things to make her feel secure in your commitment to her, so she'll start asking soon for engagement, buying a house together, etc.  I'd figure out what you want for your life before this starts happening so you can make a clear headed decision for yorself! 

Thanks Mitten. Indeed. In the end it all boils down to what you are saying. I'm going to be the only one that can decide if this is something I want. Coming out of a marriage that lasted 24 years ( and I know my ex for almost 30 years), I was ready to start the 'second' half of my life with a new partner.
I was, and still am, very dedicated to make this work. To not ruin my second chance in life. Because that is how it feels for me.
I think the only thing that would keep me in this relationship is if she is wiling to work on herself. She does go to counsel, but she is only talking about things of her past and stating she has unresolved issues. It is very strange by the way, that she is a relationship therapist herself and has a master in educational science, and she has never made the connection to BPD. Or maybe she has, but she did not told me.

[T0M]

Hold on to your sanity. I know it sounds obvious… but to use your example of your basket ball nights that she wants you to give up. It is a slippery slope when you start thinking to yourself, “I’m going to give up this thing I love… because it’s an easier option than dealing with my partner getting angry and upset all the time…” You feel like you’re in control when you tell yourself such things. But I’m sure you know that. End of the day, I think for each bpd there is a level of caretaking they require… and if you don’t serve that role then the relationship will fail. And that’s why they have so many failed relationships.

Thanks Broken Person,
If I consciously reflect on what I have given up, or the times I said 'yes' but really wanted to say 'no', there were many.

And I can put myself over these things. If I say yes to something I don't want to do, I can change my mindset and make the best out of it.

The topic of my standing my ground on the basketball, is something she brings up every week at least two times, and I can see that it weighs heavily on her.

But the really crazy part of the story is that she is not coming over anymore on Friday evenings (we do  not live together) because on Saturday mornings she has yoga. And she wants to leave to yoga from her own house. I completely understand that. And I encourage her to not give up yoga because physical exercises are good for us. Can you even begin to understand what followed? She now blames me that I don't want her to come over on Friday evenings, because she 'senses' that I'm glad when she is going to yoga because I don't want to be around her. She than said, that I want Fridays for myself to make plans with other people.
Sorry, but I just started laughing than. Sometimes I willingly ignore that she has BPD.

[mitten]

Coming out of a marriage that lasted 24 years ( and I know my ex for almost 30 years), I was ready to start the 'second' half of my life with a new partner.
I was, and still am, very dedicated to make this work. To not ruin my second chance in life.
I think the only thing that would keep me in this relationship is if she is wiling to work on herself.

It's probably easy to think that "they are the ONE".  But you mentioned you were married before, and at that time I bet they felt like "the ONE".  You've already found "the ONE" at least TWICE.  So if you decide to end this relationship why would you think "the ONE" is not still out there for you?  My point in saying that is that I'm not sure it's actually ruining your second chance in life... although it feels like it in the moment. 

Also, of course your person with BPD will agree to work on themselves in order to convince you stay.  How long that will last?  Who knows. 

[T0M]

It's probably easy to think that "they are the ONE".  But you mentioned you were married before, and at that time I bet they felt like "the ONE".  You've already found "the ONE" at least TWICE.  So if you decide to end this relationship why would you think "the ONE" is not still out there for you?  My point in saying that is that I'm not sure it's actually ruining your second chance in life... although it feels like it in the moment. 

Also, of course your person with BPD will agree to work on themselves in order to convince you stay.  How long that will last?  Who knows. 

So true! Reading your post made me realize the absurdity of my reasoning. Made me smile.

Let's state it like this: If she is willing to work on this, I can stay in this relationship, knowing I'm not the only one who is 'responsible' for her well-being.

[Good Intentions]

I mean I saw red flags when we were dating (before I knew what BPD was) but I chalked it up to my lack of experience dating and my anxiety.  I figured there wasn't a  "bad enough" reason to think they weren't "the one".  People would have thought I was insane to break it off- she's beautiful, attractive, intelligent, outgoing, successful.  And there was always hope that once I fully committed in marriage that she would finally know how much I loved her and all the other problems would go away...  well it doesn't really work like that with BPD.  I still love her and I'm happy in life but it's not easy. 

So now that your GF said she is done with you.  What do you want?  If your relationship is "constantly on life support" as your profile says, what do you think it would be like if we got back together and got married? 

thanks for the reply @mitten - the above was so relatable.

my GF is ambitious in her career, easy going with pretty much anyone, very pretty, and the type of young woman that, from the exterior, everyone would say I'd be crazy to consider parting from. and I think just like you, I have played the unwinnable game of trying to "prove my love" in one form or another to a pwBPD who doesn't really even understand what healthy love looks like.

regarding what I want - my optimistic (hopefully not unrealistic) view is that her reactively breaking up with me was a BPD response, and that maybe just maybe she can see that for what it is. I don't need her behavior to change overnight - that would be completely unrealistic - but I do need us to be on the same page with respect to what's going on, how her BPD is manifesting in our relationship, and the boundaries we both are going to commit to living by so that we can work towards being together.

and yeah - if she doesn't want that, that's fine. I've been through enough, and I'm not going to beg her or anyone else to simply want to try to work with me. I'm not looking to her for closure - I already have given that gift to myself in the form of understanding our relationship dynamic more fully than at any point over the last 4 years. And that gives me the little bit of peace that I have.

[Good Intentions]

But the really crazy part of the story is that she is not coming over anymore on Friday evenings (we do  not live together) because on Saturday mornings she has yoga. And she wants to leave to yoga from her own house. I completely understand that. And I encourage her to not give up yoga because physical exercises are good for us. Can you even begin to understand what followed? She now blames me that I don't want her to come over on Friday evenings, because she 'senses' that I'm glad when she is going to yoga because I don't want to be around her. She than said, that I want Fridays for myself to make plans with other people.
Sorry, but I just started laughing than. Sometimes I willingly ignore that she has BPD.

This is all too real for me as well @T0M

Like you've already identified, you committing to playing basketball - something that is for your physical health, and therefore your mental health, and therefore ultimately something that serves the relationship because it makes you a happier & healthier person overall - and regardless of if she rationally understands/agrees with that, it struck her "fear of abandonment" bone & made her feel like you don't want to spend time with her, which means she can then feed herself the narrative of "this person doesn't even love me".

So what is her response? "Fine, I'll do it back to him". So all of a sudden, her Saturday morning yoga routine is of greater importance. Which you then respond to in the most normal way possible - to say "go for it, yoga is a super great exercise tool and again, great for your physical & mental health" - which was you being positive & encouraging.

But her distorted perception of your verbal support of her prioritization of her health? To blame you for the way that her choice (to commit to doing yoga which I'm assuming means y'all don't spend the night together on Friday) makes her irrationally feel unloved.

Self-sabotage is another very real concept in relationships with pwBPD...this seems like a somewhat silly but also mildly infuriating example.

[mitten]

People with BPD don't "hear" what you're actually saying or meaning to say.  So when you say, yes, you should do yoga it's so good for you. She hears "you want me to go do yoga so I'm not bothering you and you get a break from me".

Basketball isn't the problem, it's that it separates you from her and that's really an uncomfortable feeling for her.  But there is no way that she could process that feeling so she rationalizes  that basketball is taking away from quality time you owe her.  Even though you only do it once a week and it's totally normal to have hobbies and activities you do separately. In fact, I bet she doesn't complain to others about you only playing basketball once a week.   

[Good Intentions]

People with BPD don't "hear" what you're actually saying or meaning to say.  So when you say, yes, you should do yoga it's so good for you. She hears "you want me to go do yoga so I'm not bothering you and you get a break from me".

Basketball isn't the problem, it's that it separates you from her and that's really an uncomfortable feeling for her.  But there is no way that she could process that feeling so she rationalizes  that basketball is taking away from quality time you owe her.  Even though you only do it once a week and it's totally normal to have hobbies and activities you do separately. In fact, I bet she doesn't complain to others about you only playing basketball once a week.   

Completely agree with everything you said. So what are we to do? This is another one of those "big picture" questions for those of us in a relationship with someone with BPD...I think your assessment is dead on, but if she's not even able to process those uncomfortable feelings (let alone recognize that it's not about basketball, it's about her irrational feelings of jealousy & neglect & whatever else), what is our role in communicating our understanding of any given situation to our partner?

If they aren't going to be able to understand it, what's the point? Aren't we describing something that would fall into the category of "JADE" (justify/argue/defend/explain) which we all know results in zero progress w/ a pwBPD?

I think this is one of my biggest pain points in the relationship. More than enduring verbal abuse or manipulation or gaslighting, it's the struggle of knowing & seeing pretty dang clearly what's happening, but it's almost like there's nothing I can do with that knowledge. Because if my partner's perspective is so wildly different, we're never going to be able to reconcile.

[mitten]

If they aren't going to be able to understand it, what's the point? Aren't we describing something that would fall into the category of "JADE" (justify/argue/defend/explain) which we all know results in zero progress w/ a pwBPD?

All you can do here is validate her feelings with a script like this.  "I know you don't like me to go to basketball and that you'd like to spend this time together, but it's my one day a week to get exercise, I enjoy it and I'm going to go.  I'll be back at blank time.  Maybe we can watch a move then if you're interested. "

By saying this you're acknowledging that it's hard for her to have you away.  And that you're still going to go but that you'll be back.  Then you throw in a little something to look forward to like a movie.  Kind of like throwing a dog a bone... haha. 

[T0M]

This is all too real for me as well @T0M

Like you've already identified, you committing to playing basketball - something that is for your physical health, and therefore your mental health, and therefore ultimately something that serves the relationship because it makes you a happier & healthier person overall - and regardless of if she rationally understands/agrees with that, it struck her "fear of abandonment" bone & made her feel like you don't want to spend time with her, which means she can then feed herself the narrative of "this person doesn't even love me".

So what is her response? "Fine, I'll do it back to him". So all of a sudden, her Saturday morning yoga routine is of greater importance. Which you then respond to in the most normal way possible - to say "go for it, yoga is a super great exercise tool and again, great for your physical & mental health" - which was you being positive & encouraging.

But her distorted perception of your verbal support of her prioritization of her health? To blame you for the way that her choice (to commit to doing yoga which I'm assuming means y'all don't spend the night together on Friday) makes her irrationally feel unloved.

Self-sabotage is another very real concept in relationships with pwBPD...this seems like a somewhat silly but also mildly infuriating example.

You summarized it well. :-)

[T0M]

Then you throw in a little something to look forward to like a movie.  Kind of like throwing a dog a bone... haha. 

... And if you are nice, you get a cookie. :-)

[T0M]

I think this is one of my biggest pain points in the relationship. More than enduring verbal abuse or manipulation or gaslighting, it's the struggle of knowing & seeing pretty dang clearly what's happening, but it's almost like there's nothing I can do with that knowledge. Because if my partner's perspective is so wildly different, we're never going to be able to reconcile.

The everyday struggle. Knowing that every 'normal ' moment is just another transition point to the next episode. The seemingly endless cycle of falling in and out of love with your partner. Everyday is a day that you get heartbroken. 

[Cat Familiar]

The everyday struggle. Knowing that every 'normal ' moment is just another transition point to the next episode. The seemingly endless cycle of falling in and out of love with your partner. Everyday is a day that you get heartbroken. 

There’s something to be said about lowering one’s expectations, AKA Radical Acceptance. However it’s far too addicting to live for the times when our partners put us up on the pedestal and shower us with love.

When we can see through that illusion, we can gain a stability where we’re not swayed either by the fantasy of illusory romance, nor by the harshness of angry verbal attacks.

The middle path. Sounds boring if you like the highs and tolerate the lows, however it’s much easier on the nervous system.

[stolencrumbs]

She now blames me that I don't want her to come over on Friday evenings, because she 'senses' that I'm glad when she is going to yoga because I don't want to be around her.

I'd be curious if there is some sense in which she is right about this? I ask because, for me, it was definitely the case. If I got a chance to have some time to myself with it being her idea and without me having to fight for it, I was happy about that. I would never have said that to her, but it was still true. And I also would've gone along with being with her if that's what she wanted. But the reality was that I was glad to not spend time with her. And this is part of what I realized long after the fact--I denied my own wants and needs for a very long time, and in a lot of ways, I was dishonest about what those wants and needs were (to the extent I even realized at the time what they were.) Add to that that pwBPD are very good at perceiving and picking up on even subtle clues about what we're feeling, and I wonder if she is picking up on something that is there, and maybe it's not quite as illogical as it seems on the face of it.

And to be clear, I don't think there's anything at all wrong with feeling a little happy to spend time alone. So this isn't a criticism at all. But I think it's important to take stock of where we are, what kind of vibes she might be picking up on, and then how to deal with that. And also, this might not be true at all of you, and so might not be relevant. The part of above just struck me as something it would've been helpful for me to explore a long time ago.

[Good Intentions]

But the reality was that I was glad to not spend time with her. And this is part of what I realized long after the fact--I denied my own wants and needs for a very long time, and in a lot of ways, I was dishonest about what those wants and needs were (to the extent I even realized at the time what they were.) Add to that that pwBPD are very good at perceiving and picking up on even subtle clues about what we're feeling, and I wonder if she is picking up on something that is there, and maybe it's not quite as illogical as it seems on the face of it.

I really appreciated your comment, and have definitely been guilty of, in this example, trying to convince her that she's incorrect to think I don't want to spend time with her on Friday night, but in reality I was being dishonest with myself in trying to convince her of that because if I stopped to think about it, my brutally honest answer was probably "yeah, I really don't want you to take this personally, but the daily stress/struggle/challenge of our relationship has really fatigued me this week and I could use the night to recharge."

I think as people in relationships with pwBPD, we've become conditioned to avoid those types of statements because we know the potentially disastrous downside if that comment is interpreted in the way that there's a 90+% chance it will be - a statement of perceived rejection & apathy that pokes at the pwBPD's fear of abandonment and their difficulty in feeling / accepting / believing in the love we have for them as partners.