Am I too jealous/insecure?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Things I recall triggering my jealousy button in the failed relationship.

About 4 or 5 days into us seeing each other (sexually yes), she tells me a guy had bought something expensive from her at work and gave her his number and invited her to a party.  She called to tell me she was going and wouldn't be able to see me.  I asked her if she liked me and we were kind of seeing each other because it sounded like this guy was asking for a date in the form of a group gathering.  She finally said she wouldn't go.

A few days later she (19) introduced me to her guy friend (19) at his workplace.  He was all happy to see her but I sensed (maybe it was a false feeling) that he was irritated by my presence.  The two of them interacted with each other a lot.  I felt like a third wheel.  After I got that feeling, I tested it, by not following them around.  It seemed like they were glued to each others' attention.  He played guitar and she sat down in front of him like a kid watching a clown show.  I play guitar as well, which was the "hook" that she gave that encouraged the meeting ("meet my musician friend", but I was never offered to play.  They then played with each others hair and giggled and did inside jokes and whatnot.  I felt excluded the whole time.  Maybe I was too passive but I felt like a guest since they knew each other better than I did.  I do remember him saying "I know you want to get into my pants" and her just kind of giggling saying "shut up" and rolling her eyes.  I also found out this was her first exbf. When we got back to my place, I told her I didn't like the interaction at all.  She got upset and said if I didn't want her to see him, she wouldn't.

A few days later, I am picking her up at work and she and her boss (50ish) are out front.  He is carrying something -- a chair or whatever -- and she is breaking off pieces of a candy bar and putting them in his mouth while he just stands there amused by it.  I got really upset about this one, angry/silent for the the drive, took her to a room like a child, and chastised her for it (finger waving in the face and all that).  She was kind of whimpering that she didn't think it was wrong and that it was her boss and that it didn't mean anything.  I said it was a very sexual-oriented thing for an adult to be doing to another adult.

That is week one.

These are things I have never experienced with a woman before, so maybe I handled them wrong, or maybe I shouldn't have even been phased by them were I healthy, confident and so on.

I can write out what happened as the relationship progressed as did my jealousy if it provides more insight.

Please note we did move very quickly.  I was a much a part of this as her, maybe I even pushed for it more.  And also she is quite younger than me and a childhood abuse survivor.

But I guess I'm asking about me.  I felt like these things crossed my boundaries.  Are my boundaries ridiculous?

[struggli]

Things I recall triggering my jealousy button in the failed relationship.

About 4 or 5 days into us seeing each other (sexually yes), she tells me a guy had bought something expensive from her at work and gave her his number and invited her to a party.  She called to tell me she was going and wouldn't be able to see me.  I asked her if she liked me and we were kind of seeing each other because it sounded like this guy was asking for a date in the form of a group gathering.  She finally said she wouldn't go.

A few days later she (19) introduced me to her guy friend (19) at his workplace.  He was all happy to see her but I sensed (maybe it was a false feeling) that he was irritated by my presence.  The two of them interacted with each other a lot.  I felt like a third wheel.  After I got that feeling, I tested it, by not following them around.  It seemed like they were glued to each others' attention.  He played guitar and she sat down in front of him like a kid watching a clown show.  I play guitar as well, which was the "hook" that she gave that encouraged the meeting ("meet my musician friend", but I was never offered to play.  They then played with each others hair and giggled and did inside jokes and whatnot.  I felt excluded the whole time.  Maybe I was too passive but I felt like a guest since they knew each other better than I did.  I do remember him saying "I know you want to get into my pants" and her just kind of giggling saying "shut up" and rolling her eyes.  I also found out this was her first exbf. When we got back to my place, I told her I didn't like the interaction at all.  She got upset and said if I didn't want her to see him, she wouldn't.

A few days later, I am picking her up at work and she and her boss (50ish) are out front.  He is carrying something -- a chair or whatever -- and she is breaking off pieces of a candy bar and putting them in his mouth while he just stands there amused by it.  I got really upset about this one, angry/silent for the the drive, took her to a room like a child, and chastised her for it (finger waving in the face and all that).  She was kind of whimpering that she didn't think it was wrong and that it was her boss and that it didn't mean anything.  I said it was a very sexual-oriented thing for an adult to be doing to another adult.

That is week one.

These are things I have never experienced with a woman before, so maybe I handled them wrong, or maybe I shouldn't have even been phased by them were I healthy, confident and so on.

I can write out what happened as the relationship progressed as did my jealousy if it provides more insight.

Please note we did move very quickly.  I was a much a part of this as her, maybe I even pushed for it more.  And also she is quite younger than me and a childhood abuse survivor.

But I guess I'm asking about me.  I felt like these things crossed my boundaries.  Are my boundaries ridiculous?

[MaybeSo]

It's not that your boundaries or values are ridiculous. It's that trying to change or control someone else INSTEAD of yourself doesnt ever work.

I have story after story of incidents with my ex similar to yours that made me feel uncomfortable, and as time went on, ... more and more things built up... .  so a vague uneasiness (that I dismissed because I've felt a twinge of insecurity in past relationships that were new, too, but noticed that if I just self soothed and didn't react... .  over time my past partners never escalated anything to the point where I felt the need to take action, I always felt trusting as time went on) So I started out being quiet, patient, just observing,  and just telling myself it's no big deal if his ex called or if his interactions with women seemed a bit flirty. But... .  instead of growing more secure over time, like I had in other relationships,  his behavior kept escalating. It didn't feel less alarming with time... .  it felt progressively more alarming and provocative.

I eventually did what I thought was the adult thing to do. I started to be clear that I felt we had

a problem, a values difference regarding behavior that was signaling to me that we might not be

well suited for eachother in the long run. I had no interest in struggling over this kind of stuff, there was no finger waving, no trying to control him,  or change him, no fighting over it... .  or

getting into a position that he's wrong and I'm right. We were both in our mid 40s... .  I just

wanted us both to be real about our needs and values,

even if it meant losing him, sad as that might be.

He came around to say he agreed with me; he felt he was too provocative and attention seeking

of other women, understood my concerns etc. Wanted to make a change in this area of his life

for his own reasons AND because he didn't want it to ruin us.

I was delighted and relieved and more impressed than ever, and I grew more bonded to this

person who was so willing to look at himself and do some difficult self reflection.

But, the problem is, later on... .  he'd have a complete change of heart and feel totally different.

He'd start acting provocative or getting emotionally involved with another woman... .  

And now I'd be dealing with two  responses:

1) I'm back to square one regarding our difference in values,

and

2) Totally confused and starting to feel ripped off for buying into the whole self introspection

thing... .  

At this point, I started to loose myself. My original instincts about being willing to walk if our

values/life style choices were so at odds, got lost. I stopped taking care of myself and got

heavily invested in the mystery of my ex. (ala the lonely child).

Over and over I felt we reached MUTUALLY agreed upon goals, only to later watch him dismantle

the very agreements he begged for and co-authored. I grew increasingly confused and

mistrusting; I caught him trying to engage in an emotional affair with an ex ... .  i had written

proof... .  and I would just lose it with him. I started to look like a crazy, jealous wreck... .  I was

desperately trying to figure out why this guy would work so hard to keep me then just throw it

all away by triangulating with ex's. It was such a weird phenomena... .  I kept thinking, if he wants

a more relaxed or open relationship, then go find a nice woman that wants the same thing! As

time went on, he blamed a lot of his push-pull behavior on MY reactions... .  having seen me over

time get more and more upset, confused and angry with his provocative behavior AND his

drastic changes is attitude... .  he started to feel I was being jealous and controlling. And I was! I was trying to control something impossible to control.  Over time, he could talk about my

reactions and my hypersensitivity... .  and he felt MY behavior kept him from feeling at ease about

committing to me... .  so ya, he was basically keeping his options open while leading me on... .  but he blamed my jealousy for his committment fears. Of course I was furious because I started out

from a very grounded place, and I had allowed myself to get hooked into all this drama.

If I had stuck to my original boundary, that our values just weren't matching up, and then act on my own boundaries based on what I saw, actions, not words... .  So much of my own suffering

and craziness could have been avoided.

We have no control over anyone else but ourselves.

My ex often begged me to stay and teach him a better way of living...  He basically would beg

me to take control of his life for him.

Even when invited, we have NO business trying to take control of or manage a partner. I would

have done him and myself a huge favor if I'd politely said NO... .  he has to take control of his

own life his own way. And I have to do the same.

So yes. I became controlling and hypersensitive and hypervigilent and untrusting when I turned

my focus away from my own self care. I have never acted this out before with another person,

and my ex truly was a conundrum mixed in a riddle. But I lost myself for a while.

I don't think my values are unreasonable.  Trying to control the uncontrollable IS unreasonable.

[Grey Kitty]

There were two times where I recall being jealous of another man that spent time with my wife.

I am NOT one of those people who is run by the green-eyed monster of jealousy. It didn't happen often. This is true even though my wife found and really started to enjoy her playful flirtatious side, which generally didn't give me twinges.

Well after these incidents, my wife did some soul-searching and thinking... .  and realized that she was having something like an emotional affair with the first one. (The second one was worse... .  and a lot more complicated... .  )

My lesson was that If I'm feeling twinges of jealousy, that is my intuition telling me that something is going on, and I need to pay attention. That doesn't mean that what my feeling is correct--there might not be anything going on. Or whatever is going on might not be a problem. That feeling also doesn't tell me what to do about the situation.

But I do hope if I ever feel it again, I'll spend some time examining the feeling closely, seeing where it is coming from, and then decide what to do about it.

[MaybeSo]

I did some research on the emotion of jealousy while with my ex. It's thought to be a very unpleasant warning sign that a relationship of great value is at risk. It's a normal emotion, intended to provide information. Like any emotion, it's ours to own... .  what to do about it? Figuring out what we want to do about it can take time.  When we get into repeated big battles... .  it's a sign we aren't owning our or taking responsibility for our own feelings and life choices, rather, we are trying to make someone change so we don't have to make hard decisions and tend to our own emotions. I felt progessively jealous over time because I was (choosing to be) with a person who kept exhibiting provacative behaviors and sending very mixed messages. I should have kept my focus on me, not on solving the riddle of his behavior. Its a free world, flirting and emotional affairs and courting behaviors are not agsinst the law; I personally find those behaviors in large supply to be incongruent with maintaining a committed relationship. That is my value system, it's legitimate, and others will feel differently and their differing values are legitimate, too .  Either accept a person as they repeatedly

present themselves and stay... .  or leave. It's the drama in between that gets ugly, and that takes

two... .  and signals that neither person is taking responsibility for themselves.

[turtle]

Struggli --

I don't think your boundaries are ridiculous.  Their yours.  You have them for a reason.

What is not so great in this scenario is a) that you were already this entrenched after one week, and b) that when you saw her behavior (which IMO, was flagrant,) you didn't walk away from her.  Instead, you dug your heels in and tried to change her.  These incidents were huge red flags!  Yet, you (like all of us,) forged ahead!

Once you confronted her and she told you that she saw nothing wrong with it, that should have been your cue to exit because YOU see something wrong with it.  It doesn't fit in YOUR value system.

Don't worry, Struggli --- You're not alone.  We've all done it - compromised our values and boundaries for another.  We all learned the hard way that this never works.

turtle

[waitaminute]

Struggli

If my experience is relevant, all this playing around with and attention to another guy is something that you - as a friend - were supposed to be ok with. Otherwise, she saw it as jealousy. Even if she understood the concept of faithfulness, "the moment" was more important.

In other words... .  Take a number. When she's ready to play with another one of her male harem... .  Maybe it will be you.

[almost789]

When people lie cheat and sneak around it tends to trigger a natural jealousy streak in me too and it is not pretty. I also, didn't know I was a jealous person until I met my exBPD. Like you, it had not triggered so severely with others. I found that almost all of my anger out rages were from the lying (about other women) which triggered the jealousy.

[waitaminute]

Maybeso ,

You are right.