Contact from her today. I am trembling.

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

It's a weird reaction to someone you have love for, isn't it?

When I see a car like hers, I feel sick.

Today, she texted me, with no acknowledgement of anything I have sent to her.  I started shaking when I saw text from "blocked number" notification on my phone.  With apprehension I opened it.  I wanted to ignore it, but couldn't.

The content is the same type of content she used to start initiating contact the last time we got back together.

It has nothing to do with the relationship whatsoever.  It is about some social issue, or health news or something like that.  Something that we share an interest in.

I have not responded and will not.  But, maybe this means she is trying to work her way back.

I just can't be with her without continuity, stability, respect for my feeling and needs and boundaries.

She will make promises and not uphold them.  I want to believe.  I want it to be true.

I know I'm jumping to conclusions.  I may never get another text from her, but this is the pattern I've come to understand.

A week ago she told me she felt "in danger" by communicating with me when I asked her to repay some of my loan to her.

Trying to resume normal breathing... .

[struggli]

It's a weird reaction to someone you have love for, isn't it?

When I see a car like hers, I feel sick.

Today, she texted me, with no acknowledgement of anything I have sent to her.  I started shaking when I saw text from "blocked number" notification on my phone.  With apprehension I opened it.  I wanted to ignore it, but couldn't.

The content is the same type of content she used to start initiating contact the last time we got back together.

It has nothing to do with the relationship whatsoever.  It is about some social issue, or health news or something like that.  Something that we share an interest in.

I have not responded and will not.  But, maybe this means she is trying to work her way back.

I just can't be with her without continuity, stability, respect for my feeling and needs and boundaries.

She will make promises and not uphold them.  I want to believe.  I want it to be true.

I know I'm jumping to conclusions.  I may never get another text from her, but this is the pattern I've come to understand.

A week ago she told me she felt "in danger" by communicating with me when I asked her to repay some of my loan to her.

Trying to resume normal breathing... .

[Kelsie]

I can relate to that feeling of apprehension/anxiety today for sure.  It isn't a good feeling and it comes from the experiences you've had with that person.  Your mind and body have developed a response to the stimuli (sights, sounds, etc) that you associate with her and (should've given myself this advice a long time ago) that should tell you a lot.

I think pretty much all people have patterns of behavior and you know that she has exhibited this pattern before, so it's a good sign to be wary and cautious.

[GreenMango]

The contact didn't have anything to do with the loan repayment?

[struggli]

I can relate to that feeling of apprehension/anxiety today for sure.  It isn't a good feeling and it comes from the experiences you've had with that person.  Your mind and body have developed a response to the stimuli (sights, sounds, etc) that you associate with her and (should've given myself this advice a long time ago) that should tell you a lot.

I think pretty much all people have patterns of behavior and you know that she has exhibited this pattern before, so it's a good sign to be wary and cautious.

It's such a mixed message physiologically, because another part of me is excited to get what it wants.

[struggli]

The contact didn't have anything to do with the loan repayment?

No.  It ignored everything I have contacted her about.  It is a mention of something "I thought you might be interested in."

[GreenMango]

That doesn't bode well.  You can respond if you'd like.  Controlled contact is an option. 

Or wait it out and work on healing.  It's tough I know.

[struggli]

That doesn't bode well.  You can respond if you'd like.  Controlled contact is an option. 

Or wait it out and work on healing.  It's tough I know.

Last time she did this, we got back together.

Back in January, it started with "What is your opinion on _____? I have been watching many documentaries on the topic and would like to know what you think."

I gave very delayed, unmoving responses.  Eventually, it turned it "I miss you.  You know me so well that it scares me." And similar talk, eventually meeting up.

Then she agreed to go to therapy, work on things, etc.

But her commitments don't last long in the realm of intimacy.  She can keep a job, for example, but can't keep up the seemingly minimal requirements I have for a relationship with her.

Has she changed anything in the last month?  What is she willing to wholeheartedly do?  As someone else said, to paraphrase, she just can't really form a deep connection in any way.

I guess I'm just trying to prepare if contact "escalates."

Even consistent presence would blow me away.  If she could achieve that, I'd have hope.

That's probably not natural for someone who has been forced to live out of a suitcase most of her childhood.

What would be the intent/way to handle controlled contact?

[BroiledBunny]

I know the feeling. I suffer almost constant anxiety though it's been a year. Just a thought of her can send my heart rate up, and give me that hard to breathe feeling.

Hang in there. Keep NC. From the little you've said, it sounds so familiar and it's what you don't say. Yeah, ha, saw a car like hers last night in my parking lot, and yeah my heart went bonkers.

Mine was soo jealous, possessive and a stalker, no respect for boundaries, it took so much so get away from her, ie the cops.

AND YET after everything, I think I still love her, and all that would have to happen is to run into her, have the right words come out of her mouth, like how sorry she is, and how she understands that she treated me badly... .and can't we try again?  

Luckily I hate her more than I love her, but it's an emotional mess inside me. I don't trust myself, so NC it is!

[Free One]

What would be the intent/way to handle controlled contact?

Don't respond to anything you don't HAVE to. Ignore messages that are just her trying to solicit contact.

Respond or contact her on those things that are necessary - such as settling the loan.

[rdtx]

Whoa - I have been lucky - Day 33 of NC

I don't know how I would react if the stbxw tried to fire up the recycler - everyone keeps telling me it will happen. They seem to be dead certain that it will - I am not so sure.

She painted me so black and acted so 'afraid' of me - not that I would ever be violent or anything of that nature - but I will admit to World Championship Caliber Voice Raising and Point Making - but never ever name calling - plenty of F Bombs for emphasis once the Crazy Train was at full steam though.

I used to think I was the one losing their mind... .things like 'you don't act tender/loving enough - you feel far away' coming out of left field - that sht got to where it just made me Mr. Furious.

Sort of a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy after a few years of hearing it ad nauseum... .

So I am betting against any kind of contact and if I got some random shte like 'who do you think will win the Election?' - that would only cement the insanity - which actually might make NC even easier.

[struggli]

Thanks for the responses everyone.

I do still love her, but it's sort of waned.  Constant disappointment eventually leads to a numbness.  That's how I feel in this moment.

I responded to her hours later with a 'sounds interesting' and nothing more.  She had nothing more to say, apparently.

It does show how unstable she is.  A week or so ago, she was telling me she felt endangered by communicating with me.

Maybe it's The child in her, tiptoeing back to see if I'll lash out or if I'm safe enough for her to get closer.  So far, it looks like her recycle strategy that I've started to recognize.

If it does go that way, I don't know what I'll do.

She's great at promising things that I believe to be true, even when my gut says no.  I think this time I've finally pulled the blinders off.  I just still have hope for her.

As greenmango told me, it's not about twisting her arm to make her behave the way I think she ought to. 

This is all just an educated guess from past experience.  In the meantime, I continue working on myself and moving forward.

The contact didn't set me back as far as I can tell.

[BroiledBunny]

+1

[BroiledBunny]

... .things like 'you don't act tender/loving enough -   that sht got to where it just made me Mr. Furious.

Sort of a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy after a few years of hearing it ad nauseum... .

I used to set my alarm 1 hour early every day for 1/2 hour of cuddling, and then 1/2 hour of having coffee... .and then of course she'd be in the driveway as I was leaving for work, and then later AT my work sitting in the parking lot... .and then follow me home. And I'd hold her till fell asleep at night too.

Sorry going OT but glad to see I'm not the only one.

She always said I wasn't affectionate enough, and didn't cuddle enough. Wanted to be held ALL night, and she snored like a chainsaw.  

How many guys would set their alarm early EVERY day to try to make their woman happy? Of course sometimes we uh... .in the morning, but I'd rather be awake for that.

And of course she wasn't any happier. Just complained MORE.

But then 14 months later, no one has been willing to take her on for more than a month.

The love I thought I felt... .well, it was addictive. Everything you ever want to hear till the raging starts. I'm a hopeless romantic.

[struggli]

I wanted affection, mine didn't.  Well, not always.

She'd say she needed space, so she'd go in the other room.  Then she'd call me in and ask me to hold her or massage her.  After I rubbed her naked body for about 15 minutes, I'd want to have sex, but she'd just say "Thanks" and start reading her book or whatever. 

There were times she couldn't stand to be without me.  Even in the grocery store, I'd say I'd go grab a few things from another section and she'd say ":)on't leave me."  And I'd think ":)on't leave me?  The same girl who needs space all the time?  The one who has left me twice?" 

[FindingMe2011]

struggli,

I see that you have moved from the staying, to the leaving board, read alot of your posts, and will make statements, coming from the "achieving detachment" point of view. It seems you really need to understand/process/accept the illness, (or at the very least, very strong BPD tendencies). Go to the members section and look up "2010". Here you can see alot of your own,and BPD behaviors explained very well. A diagnosis isnt so important. The behavior is what matters.  See the lesson links to the right, go to "tools" and read up on the 10 beliefs that will get you stuck, and when you get a chance, the other lessons also have alot of valuable info.   Have you entertained the idea of therapy ?.  Hopefully, sooner than later, you will start to ask yourself the hard questions, and have enough insight to see things for what they are, not what they once were, or what you think they can be. Its going to bring a little more pain, but it will eventually ( everybodys different in recovery ) bring positive changes in your life, that you would come to be, greatful for. It appears your still in the FOG, and taking the victim role.  When the microscope points at ourselves, the answers to our lifelong issues, stick out like a sore thumb.  Emotional growth is hard, but realise this is what needs to be done, for YOU.  No matter the circumstances, everybody has the right to live thier lives as they wish. Its selfish to think other wise. Its also a choice you make, to endure a toxic r/s. Try understanding why you feel you dont deserve better, or, why you have not put, your well being first. This can be an educational journey about you, or it could be a continious toxic situation, that you will most likely, continue to do, only the players will change, and wonder how you keep ending up in this position.  You cant continue to do the same things, and expect a different result.    


It's a weird reaction to someone you have love for, isn't it?

When its actually a portion of a severence, of a "trauma bond", that exposed your PTSD, from an earlier point in your life, not a mature love r/s reaction. This reaction is very understandable, and I have also experienced this. Understand this is what you are experiencing, and probably a whole lot more.  


What would be the intent/way to handle controlled contact?


JMHO, but I cant see the benefit in this.  I think its time for you to work on you, make an honest detachment, and reevaluate your position, at that time. This would be the kind thing to do for both of you, at this time. She also needs to do this for herself, without your help of any kind. It seems you have tried to push her towards therapy, and its only made her aware, the rules to the dance have changed. You just tell her what she needs to hear, so that she can parrot it right back to you. She survived (not a great way to live, but her choice) before you, and she will continue after you.  As I get to a healthier place in my life, the more I realise, I dont WANT a r/s with this person for now, her actions, and words (now that I know BPD morse code) shows me this. It was my discovery, that sick people dont like those around them to become healthier. When I asked for space (she cant help, but to put out feelers), established clear boundaries for myself and others, and made sure, i was no longer an enabler, she was quick to see me as her demon. Just as the illness dictates, I was rewarded/loved for doing, not being.  I wish you well.  PEACE

[struggli]

I have read the 10 beliefs that get you stuck, but when you can't be sure a person has BPD, how can you accept the beliefs as certainty?

I have been going to therapy for almost a year, started going before last 2 breakups, with the intention of going as a couple.  Ex went with me for a few sessions (maybe 6 or 7) before leaving me, coming back, and then refusing to go when we got back together the last time saying the T would think she is crazy.  I couldn't convince her to go again.

I have been asking myself hard questions.  Sometimes I can't bear the thought of ME. 

I have been relating things in the present to my past.  Such as when someone says certain phrases to me, they may not mean them in a hurtful way, but they were used hurtfully when I was a child.

I am trying to tell myself that I can do better than this relationship, but the fixer in me also still wants everything to be OK with ex.  The pattern is repeating, which bothers me in a way. 

Today, I was thinking about how absurd it all is and how like "Forrest Gump" this relationship was.  I keep loving her, she comes and goes in and out of my life.

I feel sad for her plight, but I'm angry with her for not sticking it out with me. I'm upset that it didn't turn out how I wanted.

But I understand asking myself, "if I wasn't getting what I needed, why did I continue?"

----

Just to keep with the updates, she texted 2 pictures pertaining to our "shared interest".  If we were together still, it'd be moving.  But, it's nothing.  Just a breadcrumb.  Less than a breadcrumb.  Could've been spam from an unknown number.

I asked myself, "Is this what you want?  Someone who can't tell you they are thinking about you directly?  Someone who can't sustain consistency?  Someone who will leave you every few months and does who-knows-what in the meantime?  Ten years down the road, will she still be breaking up with me when the wind changes direction? Will I still be giving her a back rub that won't be reciprocated?  Will I be taking care of her like she's my troubled child?"

[FindingMe2011]

I have read the 10 beliefs that get you stuck, but when you can't be sure a person has BPD, how can you accept the beliefs as certainty?

These beliefs have nothing to do with whether or not someone has BPD. They are just statements of common thoughts, that fall in line with faulty thinking, within a r/s. It seems you are trying to justify something to yourself. Why is it you can not accept these?

I have been going to therapy for almost a year, started going before last 2 breakups, with the intention of going as a couple.  Ex went with me for a few sessions (maybe 6 or 7) before leaving me, coming back, and then refusing to go when we got back together the last time saying the T would think she is crazy.  I couldn't convince her to go again.

Is therapy time spent on you, exclusively, since it really is, the only thing you can control? I also went to couples therapy.  2 immature, and wounded people, thrown into the arena, the chances are slim.  Her not going to T should show you something. her behaviour will continue, just as it always has. Why should she change? It works for her and she has the right, to live her life as she chooses? Just as yourself. A little selfish if you feel otherwise.

I have been asking myself hard questions.  Sometimes I can't bear the thought of ME.  

The questions that pertain to you, are the ones you should be asking in T. When you reach a place, when you welcome the thoughts of YOU, life will become more peaceful.

I have been relating things in the present to my past.  Such as when someone says certain phrases to me, they may not mean them in a hurtful way, but they were used hurtfully when I was a child.

Understanding that others are not attacking you, is very good insight, and will help emensely with recovery. Noticing triggers, putting a name of an emotion to it, then trying to find its origin, and feeling whatever feeling it is, through, is hard. The more you do this, the easier it gets. It seems time for the adult you, to forgive this child, for unrightfully carrying the shame and guilt. You deserve this, and if you dont do it, who will?

I am trying to tell myself that I can do better than this relationship, but the fixer in me also still wants everything to be OK with ex.  The pattern is repeating, which bothers me in a way.  

This statement would have alot more truth in it, if the word "fixer", was replaced with "fears".  Telling yourself," I can be better", would be a better start. Your not r/s material as of now.  Well, I guess you are toxic r/s material, which is most likely, where you would end up.  What is it that would make it "OK" with the ex?.  The steps to the dance will change, but the song remains the same. A pattern that emerges, should show you something.  When somebody shows you whom they are, believe them.

I keep loving her, she comes and goes in and out of my life.

I feel sad for her plight,

This says more about you, than it does her.

but I'm angry with her for not sticking it out with me. I'm upset that it didn't turn out how I wanted.

These are also feeling you need to work through. This r/s just exposed these feelings, it didnt create them. In the end you will see the selfishness on your part. Is it not her right, to live her life as she chooses?.  Is she wrong for not seeing things as you do?.  In the end, this is what we need to accept. We dont have to agree with it, but the negative feelings must be dealt with, and taken to a place of indifference.

But I understand asking myself, "if I wasn't getting what I needed, why did I continue?"

Any answers. Maybe this should be talked about in T

I asked myself, "Is this what you want?  Someone who can't tell you they are thinking about you directly?  Someone who can't sustain consistency?  Someone who will leave you every few months and does who-knows-what in the meantime?  Ten years down the road, will she still be breaking up with me when the wind changes direction? Will I still be giving her a back rub that won't be reciprocated?

The easiest way to predict future behaviour, is past behaviour. So if this is what has been shown to you, what is it exactly that you are looking to achieve. Is it even realistic?


Will I be taking care of her like she's my troubled child?"

Just as the illness dictates. I was, unbeknown to me, thrusted into her toxic mother/child r/s, just as she remembered it. Nothing I did or said, was going to change this. The continous loop of emotions, with or without me. Its an equal opportunity destroyer, especially for all of those who get close.  I wish you well.  PEACE  

[struggli]

FindingMe,

Thanks for the feedback.

I have a couple questions though.

When people say things like this to me, I sometimes don't get the implied meaning.  What do you specifically mean when you say:

This says more about you, than it does her.

And also, when you ask this:

Is it even realistic?

Do you mean my expectations from a lover in general are unrealistic, or do you mean for me to expect my ex specifically to provide the things I want/need may be unrealistic?

The latter, I hope.

[struggli]

I couldn't help myself.  I felt like I was denying something in me that I kept pushing down.  So I contacted her.

I hadn't heard from her for quite a while and then she sent me some generic texts (I think I mentioned in above posts).  She had done this before the last time we got back together, so with my conditioning, I figured she was coming back again.

Anyway, learn from it, comment on it, whatever.  Maybe it will help someone, maybe it will help me.

Here it is:

Me:  What was your intention sending me those things?

Her:  I sent them to a bunch of people but I thought you might enjoy it.

Me:  Are you happy with our relationship being over?

Her:  Struggli... .

Me:  I am asking for an honest answer.  It may hurt but I need to know.

(a few minutes go by)

Me:  Yes or no?

Me: Never mind

Her: Pardon the delay. I was driving.

Her:  I'm not happy about how it ended but I'm doing better overall.

Me:  I'm not happy how it ended either.  I would've like to have talked about it in person.  I felt ditched over and over.  I couldn't take it anymore.

Her:  I know.  Now we need to move on.

Me:  Yeah, I guess so.  I speculated that you already were before we broke up and that's why you stopped talking to me.

Me:  I don't understand why.  I suppose I will have to find my own meaning for it all.

Her: No, I wasn't with anyone else at the time.  And I think you know why.  We were beyond mad at each other most of the time and you were getting violent.  Sometimes things just don't work out.

Me:  I made mistakes, but did you?  You know you flipped out and threw things and hit me and I was willing to forgive.  I'm not perfect, but I certainly had the willingness try to sort things out.

I don't like the give up approach.  I still think we had a foundation for something quite special.

I feel a great sense of loss I've been trying to convince myself it's right this way, but I still don't believe it.

Her:  I got violent too.  And we did have something but it's too late, Struggli.  I want you to find someone good.  Ok?

Me:  Too late?  You are someone good, aren't you?

Her:  Break ups are hard.  Especially intense ones like ours.  But you'll be ok.  And yes, I am someone good.  But we aren't good together.

Me:  I'm not out to change your mind but haven't you said those same things before and then realized you love me?  It seems like a back and forth of huge distancing and closeness.

Her:  It's not going to happen again. :/

Me: It just seems like fear has won.

Me: Yeah, well take care.




I'm a little stirred, but doing OK.  Maybe I'm still processing it... .

[Yolo]

Oh wow, Struggli, I'm so sorry... .this brings me to tears.  And the thing is, whenever 'whatever' she has going on has fallen apart she will forget she said these things to you.

Please, I hope you don't forget it if she tries to draw you back in at some point in the future.

In fact, I hope this is the closure you need.  So at her request... .move on.  And make the most of your life and be happy... .at her request.  I'm pretty sure she will not be pleased that her #1 punching bag is no longer at her disposal, but she has done you a service.  She may have had a moment of lucidity, Struggli, where she realized, and couldn't really live with hurting you.

I don't know how a BPD thinks, but they aren't Narcissists-they have traits but there is a reason they are different on the DSM, ok, they have moments of extreme shame and can be empathetic, and you may have caught her in a lucid moment where she was telling you to 'Run!', "We aren't healthy together and I want what is best for you because I do love you... but I will destroy you".

Or something like that and maybe I'm reading into it... .but I think she is acknowledging now, while she is 'level' that she cares for you but that you two are not good for each other.  I also feel like as soon as her personal life takes a turn to the crapper she will forget all of this, so please take her lucidity seriously. I know its gut wretching. ugh... .:'(

[MaybeSo]

I empathize with the pain of breaking up, it hurts terribly.

However, i have to say that she conducted herself in a mature manner throughout this conversation. She admitted fault, she did not push you or scapegoat you. She appears to have maintained calm and spoke without vitriol. She maintained her position that it's best the relationship end due to the volatility/violence escalating between both of you (this is actually very wise). She wishes you well.  Considering the age difference I'm amazed how well this conversation was handled. Honestly, this was very grown up on her part.

[struggli]

Oh wow, Struggli, I'm so sorry... .this brings me to tears.  And the thing is, whenever 'whatever' she has going on has fallen apart she will forget she said these things to you.

Please, I hope you don't forget it if she tries to draw you back in at some point in the future.

In fact, I hope this is the closure you need.  So at her request... .move on.  And make the most of your life and be happy... .at her request.  I'm pretty sure she will not be pleased that her #1 punching bag is no longer at her disposal, but she has done you a service.  She may have had a moment of lucidity, Struggli, where she realized, and couldn't really live with hurting you.

I don't know how a BPD thinks, but they aren't Narcissists-they have traits but there is a reason they are different on the DSM, ok, they have moments of extreme shame and can be empathetic, and you may have caught her in a lucid moment where she was telling you to 'Run!', "We aren't healthy together and I want what is best for you because I do love you... but I will destroy you".

Or something like that and maybe I'm reading into it... .but I think she is acknowledging now, while she is 'level' that she cares for you but that you two are not good for each other.  I also feel like as soon as her personal life takes a turn to the crapper she will forget all of this, so please take her lucidity seriously. I know its gut wretching. ugh... .:'(

Yes, I think that's probably a pretty fair assessment.  It's a shame though. 

[struggli]

I empathize with the pain of breaking up, it hurts terribly.

However, i have to say that she conducted herself in a mature manner throughout this conversation. She admitted fault, she did not push you or scapegoat you. She appears to have maintained calm and spoke without vitriol. She maintained her position that it's best the relationship end due to the volatility/violence escalating between both of you (this is actually very wise). She wishes you well.  Considering the age difference I'm amazed how well this conversation was handled. Honestly, this was very grown up on her part.

Yes, it was handled very adult-like.  She is fairly good at being adult when we aren't together.  I must be her trigger.  She was very mature at the beginning of the relationship, too, then as her trauma/FOO issues started coming out, things started getting unstable/regressing.  Quite a bummer, but I am trying to see it all as who she is.

[Phoenix.Rising]

I'm sorry, man, and it's no fun.  I had a brief conversation via text with ex yesterday... first communication in six weeks, and the tone was similar.  She told me she had moved on, although I already knew that.  I wasn't looking for a reconnect with her.  I wanted to make amends for my wrongdoing.  The previous contact we had, I made some hurtful remarks and then blocked her number. 

I do care about her, but I hope I finally realize that she is not capable of sustaining consistent intimacy with me.  And you are probably correct, you are a trigger for her.  I seemed to be triggering my ex more and more as the relationship went on.  Towards the end, the break-ups would happen after a couple of weeks. 

I hope this gives you some closure.  I feel more closure today than I have throughout this entire process.  I desire a partner that can be consistently intimate with me.  My ex does not want any help.  She thinks her life is fine.  From what I've observed and experienced, she is disordered and in need of help.  It's time for me to take some time for myself. 

[struggli]

I'm sorry, man, and it's no fun.  I had a brief conversation via text with ex yesterday... first communication in six weeks, and the tone was similar.  She told me she had moved on, although I already knew that.  I wasn't looking for a reconnect with her.  I wanted to make amends for my wrongdoing.  The previous contact we had, I made some hurtful remarks and then blocked her number.  

I do care about her, but I hope I finally realize that she is not capable of sustaining consistent intimacy with me.  And you are probably correct, you are a trigger for her.  I seemed to be triggering my ex more and more as the relationship went on.  Towards the end, the break-ups would happen after a couple of weeks.  

I hope this gives you some closure.  I feel more closure today than I have throughout this entire process.  I desire a partner that can be consistently intimate with me.  My ex does not want any help.  She thinks her life is fine.  From what I've observed and experienced, she is disordered and in need of help.  It's time for me to take some time for myself.  

The third (?) time we got together earlier this year, she was very distant.  I think we had about three weeks of intimacy and closeness.  Then she told me she didn't feel comfortable telling anyone we were back together.  I was a dirty secret.  I was excluded from certain facets of her life of which I was previously a part.  I tried to be cool and patient about it, but it was a dull pain.  

It never really went back to feeling close again.  And she started needing space a lot.

The part of me that feels disordered is the part of me that thought she was starting all these emotional (possibly physically) affairs with old school friends.  I started to get upset every time her phone went off, every time she took her phone with her to the bathroom, and so on.  I suppose it was a legitimate fear.  On the flip side, she'd miss my calls and it'd take her hours to get my texts.  

I'd not hear from her for days and she'd come back so excited to see me and tell me she realized she loved me and jump in my arms.  I'd say "Uhhh... .you had to go meditate and ignore me?  I thought you already knew you loved me?"  Toward the end, it's like every week she'd have to sink into some deep introspection about whether or not she loved me.  And then when she was sure she did, she'd show up and be sweet.  Then gone again.  Finally, the "needing space" and "confusion" got to be too much for me.

Throwing all that on top of a dissolving trust and sexual issues, I guess there wasn't much left.  

I think a lot of this is difficult for me because I've never broken up (initiated) with anyone before.  But I suppose it is also the strength that balances out the pain.

One thing I realize is that everything was great until the first time I 'abandoned' her.  She asked me not to leave her and that she couldn't be alone.  I invited her to come along on my four day trip and she couldn't make it.  This abandonment sent it all downhill.  But, at some point, even if we were together every day for years, there would be a time when we'd have to separate.  Or something else would be a problem.

Maybe it was all a time bomb from the start.  She seemed like my perfect match.  

I don't know if my interaction gave me closure.  I think I'm still sort of in the same place, partly because every time we've broken up, she has been composed and emotionally disconnected.  She's said "This is it for good.  We are terrible together" every time.

But, I don't want to live like this.  I too believe (as you and other posters have suggested) that she sees no problem with the way she lives.  Those who "hurt" her are the bad people.  She doesn't need help because what she's doing works for her.

I don't know the whole story of her ex because I only know of him through her, but I suspect he went through all the same things.  In the end, I imagine he wasn't such a bad guy.

For instance, she said he was disgusting because he would masturbate in bed next to her.  But, now I understand why.  They probably had great sex and then she withdrew almost completely.

She asked him if they'd be together forever and he told her to f--- off.  Now I know why.  She left him all the time too.  She said they broke up multiple times.

But, yes, our breakups got more frequent too.  The lines became blurred between her needing space and breaking up.  We've had 3 recycles this year, vs 1 in the first 1.5 years.

We broke up about 8 weeks ago (first time ever initiated by me) and mostly had NC.

It saddens me to see her go on living like this, for her and for those she affects.  But what can I do?

I seek consistency and intimacy too.  It's hard to believe that such a thing exists after all this.

I'll keep working on myself.  Right now that means a lot of time alone.  I do need to learn to love me and look for a partner that doesn't need repair.  I don't believe it just yet, but I'll keep saying "You deserve better."

[struggli]

Maybe this breakup's an example of splitting in action.  I get it now.

[Phoenix.Rising]

I read something this morning about giving myself the love that I gave to my uexBPDgf.  I hope I can do that.

I think our exs do need the constant attention from guys unless they get some help.  It's that lack of a stable identity.  Couple that with the abandonment/enmeshment fears and it makes for a very rocky road.  It is still all hard for me to process and accept.  I suppose it will be for a while. 

I am a pretty picky guy when it comes to women, and on so many levels she felt like "the one".  Was it really due to the mirroring and idealization?  I believe that probably had a lot to do with it, but there were other things at play, too.  I wonder if I'll ever find a woman that will have the impact on me that she did, but those thoughts are torturous.  There was a definite negative impact, too, along with the positive. 

I'm trying to focus on the several occasions when she broke up with me showing zero feeling or remorse.  This was very hard to understand, and it triggered my own abandonment fears, to the core.  I feel my self-esteem has been damaged.  Her words could be so gentle and kind, but they could also be the kiss of death!  I was letting her slowly tear me down, bit by bit.  I was losing myself in the process.  I would never be good enough... never.  That taps into deep fears of mine as well.

I'm seeing a narcissistic side of her when I think about it now.  She was high functioning, good job, home, appeared confident outwardly, physically beautiful, but she could really put the dagger into the heart and not blink an eye.  This is what I need to remember.  She has a black widow side, and that side will continue to kill its prey unless she gets some help.  Sometimes I think she unconsciously strips the men in her life of self-respect because it's likely that her self-respect was taken from her at an early age.

The reality is that these relationships are dangerous, in my opinion.  The best thing I can do for her if I really do have genuine feelings for her is to let her go.  That will likely give her a better chance at doing something about her problems.

[struggli]

Phoenix,

I agree with what you wrote above 100% and I practically could have written those same words.  I'm glad you are able to relate, although it sucks we went through this.  I guess we learned some valuable lessons.

I, too, think it will be hard to find someone again.  I know that's a typical post-BU feeling, but this girl, on the good days, blew away any woman I've ever been with by a large degree.

It bothers me that she lives life as a wolf in sheep's clothing, but what can I do?  Yes, a black widow, as you said.  Not only does she shine on the surface, but she even comes across as naive and innocent, adding to the allure.

I fell in love with someone who was not available to me. 

[FindingMe2011]

I read something this morning about giving myself the love that I gave to my uexBPDgf.  I hope I can do that.

Most, if not all on here, fall in line with this type of faulty thinking, whether they want to admit it or not. It comes from lack of self worth, esteem, caused from how we learned from our caretakers, or on our own. We also have some wires crossed, when it comes to processing thoughts. The idea of re wiring us is where it starts. Having the courage to break ourselves down, just a little further, to fix our flaws, insures that we emerge mentally healthier, or more emotionally mature.  If you dont do this, be ready for some new toxic r/s.

I think our exs do need the constant attention from guys unless they get some help.  It's that lack of a stable identity.  Couple that with the abandonment/enmeshment fears and it makes for a very rocky road.  It is still all hard for me to process and accept.  I suppose it will be for a while.

Even with help, the illness most of the time, just gets curved a little bit, not cured.  

Its ALL of thier shallow r/s,(including ours) that need to enable a BPD er, or the dont have the ability to continue them. If they are put in situations to self reflect, dysregulation occurs, and thier learned behavior kicks in.  It was hard for me also to accept. How could I, a fairly intelligent person, find myself in this position, with such an ill person?.  Bottom line, my EQ, was far behind my IQ. Life is balance, when fairly healthy. Most things are never as good, or as bad as we percieve. Personally, I had to revisit the r/s, for what it was, many, many times, before I could accept this. Doing this, receiving emails (after understanding BPD code) and observing behaviour, as we have children, made it impossible for me not to accept this, when I was truthful with myself. Seeing myself, in a truthful way was also painful, but the ONLY way to grow. I also see, even now, how my subconcious tries to pull me back, to my faulty thinking.

I am a pretty picky guy when it comes to women, and on so many levels she felt like "the one".  Was it really due to the mirroring and idealization?  I believe that probably had a lot to do with it, but there were other things at play, too.

So is it safe to say, that your picker needs some work?.  Do you still believe in soul mates?.  All of the other things at play, has to do with YOU, or at least i hope you realise this. If you were in a healthier spot, you would have seen through all of her behaviour. You may not have understood it, but at the very least, your compass would have lead you in another direction.

I wonder if I'll ever find a woman that will have the impact on me that she did, but those thoughts are torturous.  There was a definite negative impact, too, along with the positive.

Wow, there are 4 billion people on this earth, does she hold the key to your happiness?.  No, she just helped you unlock the good in you. Whether you want to believe it or not, you decided to turn the key. What makes you feel you cant find a healthy partner, and turn this key again?.  one of the educational parts of this illness,(if we choose to see it this way) they also unlock our fears, to understand, and put in their correct place. Something we have NEVER done, or felt the need to. Its our responsibility to do this, as we do deserve this, and owe it to ourselves.


I'm trying to focus on the several occasions when she broke up with me showing zero feeling or remorse.  This was very hard to understand,

before learning of PDs, I had no idea. That an apparently normal person could walk around unable to have empathy. A narcisistic trait that i acquired in my upbringing.(believing for the most part that others thought as me).  i now understand this

it triggered my own abandonment fears, to the core.  I feel my self-esteem has been damaged.

Your self esteem was damaged well before this r/s.

I would never be good enough... never.  That taps into deep fears of mine as well.

This will continue, and rear its ugly head in many ways until you rewire this and put it in its proper place.

I'm seeing a narcissistic side of her when I think about it now.  She was high functioning, good job, home, appeared confident outwardly, physically beautiful, but she could really put the dagger into the heart and not blink an eye.  This is what I need to remember.  She has a black widow side, and that side will continue to kill its prey unless she gets some help.  Sometimes I think she unconsciously strips the men in her life of self-respect because it's likely that her self-respect was taken from her at an early age.

Its an image we justify to stay, WILLINGLY. Maybe some narcisism on our part also, maybe not. Discovering the truth in why we stayed is where the healthy healing is. Taking the illness personally, and maintaining the myrtar role keeps us stuck, but this is the results of our FOO.

I fell in love with someone who was not available to me. 

Maybe a similar reenactment of a r/s with one of your caretakers? Just a thought, and one I discovered for myself. Although the dynamics different, the results on how I viewed myself, and felt, very much the same.  I wish you well, .  PEACE

[struggli]

I'm starting to think the "good" I saw in her was just acting to get approval.  "If I do things that look good, other people will think I am good and everything will be ok."

She never really was mine, nor what I wanted her to be.  I projected an image of what I hoped she was and suffered the consequences.

I think she showed me the public image of herself when she was kind, loving, warm and showed me her real self (scared, guarded, angry, sneaky) when she opened up to me.

I didn't see reality.

A valuable learning lesson.

I met a woman online who is beautiful, a model.  She pursued me.  We chatted for hours.  She said I was amazing after 4 hours of text chat.  She sent me naked pictures.  She said she wanted to strip for me on webcam.   Then she distanced the next day.  Then a week later she "appears" again.  I have cut off contact.  The old me would have tried to get her attention a little more, take the bait, developed feelings because this beautiful woman wants me and thinks I'm special.  But how quickly I saw crazy in her.

I don't need someone else to make me feel special anymore.  And great sex isn't worth putting my self-respect and feelings in a blender.