I love you. I can never love you.

[Depression = 72% of members]

So the other day... .Saturday... .everything is fine. I know she has BPD, as a matter of fact this starts to happen when a she is at her meeting. I was with her Friday and I was sick so she asked me to stay at my house so I don't get the kids sick. Fair enough. But that night she asks me to come over super early in the morning so I can watch the kids whe she goes to see her therapies. Done deal. I get up at 5:30 go to her house and make everyone breakfast, get them up and dressed, and out she goes. Well during the meeting she texts and said a he wants to go to her moms to swim can I get the kids ready. I do but I feel used like a golrified babysitter. When she gets home we get into it. I feel like crap and tell her I am sorry. She tells me we are fine and she loves me. Well I tell her she didn't invite me to go this time. She said she didn't think about it. Away she goes. We talk in the phone until she gets there. I can tell there is a edge but We are doing ok. Later she tells me she doesn't love me, can't love me again. Monday I finally see her again. We exchange keys and her kids are crying asking me to stay. This rips me in half and I start to cry. I have grown to love them. Their dad is in jail. So I became that figure willingly for them. And she is pregent with my child now. At one point Monday she tells me that the kids isn't mine kids but quickly.back tracks. Now u am fairly New to this because while I have known her for years we just started dated. I am lost and don't know what to do. Will I get my family back or What. If any one has been through this or has some insight please help me. While I knew about the BPD I didn't know what it meant until tonight please help

[Ashur]

So the other day... .Saturday... .everything is fine. I know she has BPD, as a matter of fact this starts to happen when a she is at her meeting. I was with her Friday and I was sick so she asked me to stay at my house so I don't get the kids sick. Fair enough. But that night she asks me to come over super early in the morning so I can watch the kids whe she goes to see her therapies. Done deal. I get up at 5:30 go to her house and make everyone breakfast, get them up and dressed, and out she goes. Well during the meeting she texts and said a he wants to go to her moms to swim can I get the kids ready. I do but I feel used like a golrified babysitter. When she gets home we get into it. I feel like crap and tell her I am sorry. She tells me we are fine and she loves me. Well I tell her she didn't invite me to go this time. She said she didn't think about it. Away she goes. We talk in the phone until she gets there. I can tell there is a edge but We are doing ok. Later she tells me she doesn't love me, can't love me again. Monday I finally see her again. We exchange keys and her kids are crying asking me to stay. This rips me in half and I start to cry. I have grown to love them. Their dad is in jail. So I became that figure willingly for them. And she is pregent with my child now. At one point Monday she tells me that the kids isn't mine kids but quickly.back tracks. Now u am fairly New to this because while I have known her for years we just started dated. I am lost and don't know what to do. Will I get my family back or What. If any one has been through this or has some insight please help me. While I knew about the BPD I didn't know what it meant until tonight please help

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Meili]

Ashur, that sounds dreadful, I'm sorry that you're having to experience that. I know from my own dealings with pwBPD (people with BPD) how confusing and painful it all is.

Sadly, no one can predict how things are going to play out. Sometimes things work and other times they don't. There are some things that you can do to mitigate the damage though. Have you checked out the LESSONS yet?

[Ashur]

I am reading everything I can.I talked with her today and told her that I am not giving up on us and that she can have her space and time. And that she needs to know that I support her no matter what. She then took my credit card and drove off to her college. I don't know what that means fully, then she said in a text not to get my hopes up. I know she is my soul mate. And I am willing to deal with it if only... .you know?

[Meili]

Took your credit card?

If you're truly committed to staying in the r/s, then it's time to put the reading to work. Boundaries are a great place to start. By establishing boundaries you can protect yourself and stop rewarding her for bad behavior. By not having or enforcing boundaries, you are going to cause her to not respect you. This will hurt you in the long run.

Have you established any boundaries with her?

[Ashur]

No... .I guess I really haven't at first I just wanted her to be happy and see what a real loving realiship looked like. Her ex did a number on her both mentality and physical. So I was doing what I thought was right. And because I suffer from ptsd myself and often go into panic attacks. She has been the only one who could pull me out of that. Like on the 4th one of the neighbors let off fire works and... .this is hard for me to share... .

[Ashur]

Sorry wrong button. So I am on the floor in a ball and crying. Just her touch let me know I was safe again and she talked me back out of it. Now the flip side of that later that night when a big boom when off and I tensed up and got ready to move she did make fun if me. Maybe I should also say this. She takes my car with my blessing when she wants. I clean her house and cook every meal even when I don't eat over there. And I pay all her bills. But she can't afford them herself. Do you think its too late to set limits now's?

[Meili]

It's never too late to start setting and enforcing boundaries. She might give you some pushback at first, but it's really the only healthy thing for both of you.

If she doesn't respect your boundaries, that should be a clear sign to you that something is wrong. It should be an even bigger sign for you if you don't enforce her boundaries and allow her to cross them at will.

[Ashur]

So I just got done talking with her. I told her that I understand a lot more now then before and that I will be here for her. But that we needed to go slow and we have to be able to talk about anything. And that we had to set limits on things between us so either of us don't feel used. We did most of the talking on the phone. She said she didn't know why I would stick around... .but then asked me to come over so we can talk face to face about how things are and should be. But let me know out eight she didn't know when she would feel better. Fingers crossed

[Lilyroze]

  Ashur,

I am glad you found the board, and are getting support and advice. Though I am sorry for the reason you had to find here.

There are some great articles, books, and resources that might help you in your pain right now.

If I might suggest while working on boundaries maybe look into the book: Stop walking on eggshells. It might help with some of what you are going through.

How did you feel when she made fun of you the other day?

It seems in care-taking her you have abandoned your self perhaps? Is there some goals, dreams, or things you can think of right now to start to bring joy to you?

Are you in a lot of pain right now with this latest?

You are worthy, you are unique, and you deserve care as well. If she can't give that to you, how can you give that to yourself?

Maybe think of some boundaries or what you need her to bring to the table for this to work, and start setting a plan and goal.

Do you happen to have a T that can help you through your healing, PSTD, and her possible BPD? How about friends and family? What are their thoughts?

What does her therapist suggest? Has she shared any of that with you?

You seem like you are trying so hard for her and that is admirable. Though remember you are not responsible for how her last relationship was, or care taking her.

Love and care also includes you. Self respect, self love, self care all begins with you. How can you start some of that today?

I hope you can find some peace in next few days, and some of the resources help you to begin to heal.

[Ashur]

I will look into that book right away. When she made fun of me I was really hurt because I thought she understood... .she was the very first person I shared the fact that I have ptsd with. Not even my family knows mother, father, brother, sister, etc. I mean you know they see me get panic attacks but they don't fully understand why. I don't share it with my friends either. But with her I felt safe for the first time. Yeah I go take to a therapist almost every week for myself. It helps... .I asked her to go with me maybe she could understand my reactions better... .we haven't gone yet. Her therapist wants me to go to a meeting with them. I told both I am more then willing. Nothing more was said this was a few weeks ago. As for hobbies... .I had my own company and loved doing it. I fix up homes for people. But she didn't think the work was steady enough and talked me into closing it down. I have a older friend that she hasn't asked me to stop talking to yet who told m me he wanted to become partners annals grow my company. Her and I talked about that and with some good reason she is worried about winter work. I have a really good friend who I see often but when the three of us are together she treats him like she... .she tells me how dumb he is and tells me to "get rid of him" tell him we don't want him in our life. I have lost my self a bit maybe more then likely. I love to play music but se won't let me. She is worried it will lead to drinking and drugs... .before I got on my meds for the ptsd I drank a lot. And she is worried I wi cheat... .I have never cheated. I love myself fully... .I think... .but I don't know I rather fight for her and I and deal with the rollercoaster that is us... then be happy with some one else. At least right now. I don't want to be another person who walked away because it became too hard. Tonight was a good night I got her to smile and laugh like she use to... .even got a hug. Then I seen almost like in a movie that far away look in her eye and she was gone again. She asked me to stay away, but was in a fighting mood. So I told her that I loved her and would text. She texted and said she enjoyed seeing me and may want to see me tomorrow. I am in a lot of pain in dealing with this. Before I started looking this up I lost myself two nights in a roll against that voice telling me no I picked up the bottle again. Lucky for me I had.enough control to stop and I called my old aa guy and my friend she hates came over and didn't leave my side. I took it all personally I didn't know better. As for my family we are all very close but we never talk about troubles. It has been that way all my life. When my best friend hung himself thy (my family) were like that sucks want some dinner. So they don't care either way. Well maybe my sister She has asked me how it was a going and a smoke to walk away from her. Yeah maybe your right I didn't do the things her ex did... But I feel like I could have saved her if I only openned my eyes. Like u said or think I did I've known her for years and loved just as long. I turned a blind eye because she kept going back and would repeat the same patterns with him. That is one weapon she uses when she is in a mood... .that I could have help and didn't. She knows it shuts me down... .the guilt of failing someone. I don't know if I sound like a whiny loser here... .I really hope not... .and I really hope yo guys dint grow sick of me... .I really am grateful for you all and for being able to speak about how I feel without having to drag another person down with me if you know what I mean. So really thank you all so very much

[Lilyroze]

Ashur,

As for hobbies... .I had my own company and loved doing it. I fix up homes for people. But she didn't think the work was steady enough and talked me into closing it down. I have a older friend that she hasn't asked me to stop talking to yet who told m me he wanted to become partners annals grow my company

Read back the above to yourself as an outsider, or if you were going to give me advice or a friend. Is this concerning to you?

It is to me, here is why: A business is not a hobby if you had customers, and made money. Which you did. You had the chance to expand it.

 Maybe I am biased as I helped start a construction firm many years ago. There will always be slow times, recessions, people not remodeling. On the plus side there will always be someone needing your services if you are fair, work hard, do a good job, fair price.  You can't live in FEAR ( False evidence appearing real) if you want to own a business or have serious hobbies. You need to plan, have goals, be wise, take chances and be prudent. Fear is not in that equation. She made you lose it all for fear.

As for winter you could have always subcontracted, temp or taken other job then. Who knows many like work done then as they have off and can be home when it happens, have money saved, have to use money before end of year for tax purposes etc.  It is just like when people work in plants and get laid off every year at a certain time. You plan in your budget for it all year, if not slow then great a bonus.

So you have offered to go to counseling with her, cook all her meals, take care of her kids, pay for things, quit your company for her, clean her home, take her rages, insults and being left out of things. How does all that make you feel?

What does she bring to the relationship? This is all without your being married, when you marry will she treat you better, help more, do some things for you maybe? Remember a ring or ceremony won't change who she is, her core values, if she has BPD, or how she treats you.

Yes get the book. Talk to your T about all this. Reconsider your business, your goals, your hobbies and don't lose your core values, what is important to you, for someone that doesn't seem to care.

Sorry you are going through all this, chin up, read the articles, tools, get the book, and start to examine if this relationship is best for you.

If so use the tools, if not be safe and take care of you.

Hope you find some peace and rest this week.

[Ashur]

All things being equal... .I would tell you are any one you were nuts for shutting down something you loved to do and made money at... .

Most of the things I do, as a single event (meaning doing by itself) I don't mind. I love to cook and she doesn't cook. Before me the kids lived off corn dogs. I really don't mind stepping up for the kids. I have two myself, and all things being told she isn't the best mother. She doesn't do a lot. She never gets on the floor and play... or read to them. So I do that.

That being said it makes me feel like I am being usesld when we have agreements she doesn't keep. Like I told her baby I will cook but you have to do dishes. Cut to a few hours later she is asleep and I am washing dishes. Or when I clean only to come over the next day to find the house a huge mess.

Some of her actions I passed off as her having that bad ex in her life. Some of it I passed off as her not knowing what I feel is a healthy relationship looks like and there for doesn't know how to act. 

But last night I laid in bed thinking. As I don't sleep much I had a lot of time. How much of it is the aforementioned things, how much is it the BPD and how long do these "episodes" (for lack of better understanding on my part) last. That is not to ask "will she ever get better" I know that is something that may not/will not happen. And how much it this is who she is, with and without BPD or is it me does she just think so low of me?

I have never been a person who walks away from something when there is still hope.

I wish she would open up to me more. I asked her about that and she told me she is worried to tell me much in fear I would blow up. All things being equal here maybe that's fair. I don't blow up but I do get mad. Not at her sometimes at myself for not being able to protect her from whatever it is or was and who ever hurt her. This is a issue with me that is not singularly with her. But as it stands when I ask her how her T meeting went all I get is good. I ask her if she would like to go over what they talked about (I do this with her after my meetings because it helps me self review) all she tells me is "a lot"

What does She bring? Man, I have thought a lot about that last night. She makes me feel whole again. I can see forever in her eyes... .when she fully present. And when that happens we can talk for hours and be really genuinely happy. I don't have to worry about her cheating. She doesn't like sex. An issue that lead to some of the abuse ex her did. Yes it bothers me that we aren't that physical but I can deal with that.

I know a he won't change if we get married. And it's hard. Because when things are smooth for us I have never been so happy.she wants to get on meds after the baby. I hope that helps. I know my have helped me.

[Ashur]

And I will say this... .it hurts when I tell her I love her and all she replies right now is ok or alright or I know. But she hesatates like she wants to let me know but either cannot won't

[Ashur]

Another update. I when And seen her this morning before she had to go to college.she was doing her hair... .stopped and hugged me. She had that look of love in her eyes I told her I loved her she smiled and said... .I know. Then walking her to her car we are holding hands about half way there she let's go and said "we are only friends friends don't hold hands" now I am home she sends me a text. Telling me a few sweet things. So I call she snaps at me tells me she is driving and eating and does not have time to speak to me. I said ok and I loved her again. She said well I don't love you right now. Now I bet when she gets to school in a bit she will text me and tell me she made it and all that, but when I reach back out she will stone was me. I am trying to learn here reading everything I can, trying to be supportive,  and still very much in love. But I feel like I am spinning out of control. What are the cycles am I missing something here? Should I cut my loses and walk away? But I'd I do that won't that cause her more damage?

[Meili]

Only you can answer whether or not you should walk away. You'll know when you are ready to commit one way or the other.

If I might suggest, stop telling her that you love her. She knows it. She knows that you are completely under her spell every time that you say it to her, and that gives her the power to feel safe to continue treating you as she has.

Also, it may help to remember that pwBPD have issues with intimacy and it puts them in defensive mode. The more you chase, the more she'll run. So, by not keeping her defensive, you'll have a better chance of her not pushing you away.

I know that it seems counter-intuitive at first, but if you think about it, it makes perfect sense.

With regard to you last question, the fact that you're asking that shows that you're still thinking more about her and what you believe is best for her than you are about yourself and what is best for you. I did the same thing for a long time. I kept myself in a painful cycle as a result. It was not until I stopped worrying about her, her emotions, and protecting her that I was able to change the dynamic. Essentially, what you are doing when you do that is trying to control her emotions. That is really a bad plan.

[Ashur]

So here is what I have done please tell me if I did right (hope you guys aren't sick of me)

I told I would help pay this months Bill as I was over a lot but next month she needs to figure it out if I am not there it not my worry

Other then calling to wake her up I haven't called

I reply to her texts here and there but I don't reach out all the time like I did

I stopped telling I love her

I called my friend and told him lets grow the company.

I am working on getting my band back together

And I am starting to spend time with old friends I lost touch with for a while.

[Meili]

All seem like really good things!

Two questions though:

1. Why are you calling to wake her up?

2. How quickly are your responding to her? Is it on your time table, or hers?

[Ashur]

I call her in the morning for the kids. They go to a year round head start/ day care and can only miss x amount of days in x amount of time. When her and I started they were a day from being removed

As for replying to her texts. It depends on the first text if its something I need to answer I will. Like today she needed me to fill out paperwork for her school. So I reply quickly. Or about the kids. Her what are you doing texts I leave until I have time to talk.

And one thing she likes to do is answer with close ended questions Or ask them and leave me to find a reason for us to talk. Now when she does that I just stop texting

[Meili]

Sounds pretty good then. 

[Lilyroze]

Ashur,

So here is what I have done please tell me if I did right (hope you guys aren't sick of me)

I told I would help pay this months Bill as I was over a lot but next month she needs to figure it out if I am not there it not my worry

Other then calling to wake her up I haven't called

I reply to her texts here and there but I don't reach out all the time like I did

I stopped telling I love her

I called my friend and told him lets grow the company.

I am working on getting my band back together

And I am starting to spend time with old friends I lost touch with for a while.

Wow, that is awesome. You have begun to start a wonderful journey to finding yourself again. You have done so much already, registered here, posted, started using the tools, are healing, getting your company and band back.  

I am amazed Ashur at your progress already. How does all that feel? How exciting about your new goals, company plans and healthy things you are doing for you.

Please keep posting and keep us updated. The tools and board will be able to help you with whatever direction you go.

I think you handled it all with grace, and best way possible under circumstances.

[Ashur]

Thank you very much. I mean I really am happy that I get to do these things again But sometimes I just wish She was beside me. We talked and she said when/if we fix things she will deal with it if I understand She will have ups and downs. And she told me that when she is in a mood she will let me know so I can go nc for a while

[Ashur]

And I interrupting what I am learning wrong and from what I see with my pwBPD or is this sort of dealing with two people in one?
She asked to see me today and in a span of 5 mins when from come over to don't come over to maybe come over

[Ashur]

Don't know why I do this to myself.

So today I took her and her son to the museum. Her daughter is at her grandparents.
On the way there she reaches for my hand. We hold hands for most of the museum. Then she quickly becomes distance. On our way out she is reading this paper so I put my hand on the small of her back so she don't walk into anything.she pulls away. But on the car ride back to her place. I am driving her car. She puts my hand on her leg. We kiss in te house nothing like making out but a kiss. And now she texts me and tells me a he did not have a good time with me.

Please note this. Her house was destroyed I mean trash turned over clothes everywhere. Bad. She told me she didn't feel like going out. I tyres to clean up for the kids but she stopped me telling me it was ok.

Tomorrow she wants to see me. As of right now I am pretty sure that will channce a hundred times tonight

And Monday we are going to the baby doctor together. Should I be worried about her state of being here?

[Lilyroze]

Hi Ashur,

Sounds like you had a lovely day, and she did too. Until maybe she got home and faced the reality of her house.

Do the kids help her any with chores or are they too young maybe?

It sounds like you tried very hard to have a nice day, treat her and her son out and even offered some help with the house. I don't think there is much more you could have done. Do you feel there is?

What are you thinking now?

What plan has her T worked with her on? Has it addressed the house being so trashed or her feeling overwhelmed with it or being a mom?

  I know this is hard. I do admire all you are doing for her, and trying in your healing now.

[Ashur]

No the kids are 4 and 2.they help make a mess .

I really enjoyed being with her. I was telling my friend just now that I don't want to ne with anyone else. And he said that is because I am in love with her and not just love.

I don't know what else I could have done but I feel like I am failing some where. I get this in a intellellectual stand but emotional stand point I feel like I am being toren in half.

I feel super lost. Even just now I texted her back she.told me a he was not feeling good and asked me to come over. I told ok I would then She said never mind. How can someone change their mind in less the a mintue.

My friend said she is worried about getting hurt like she was in the past with her ex. I can understand that. But she is killing me.

I am not sure what they talk about while the T wants us to see her together. My... .pwBPD has shut me out. And doesn't really tell me about their meetings. But I am guessing a he doesn't have a clue. When they would do the in home the house was clean because of me. But now... .I mean dirty diapers on the floor next to the trash can. Right next to it! Mold in the coffee pot.

This is not the woman I fell in love with. She acts so different. I just want my baby back and I don't know how to help... .

[livednlearned]

PTSD, 2 young kids and a baby on the way, plus a BPD mama. That's a lot! Glad you have a therapist and now this forum to help you navigate choppy waters.

I just want my baby back and I don't know how to help... .

It's hard to accept, tho important to realize that this is who she is. The woman you love and the woman who pushes you away, both are the same person. The key is to recognize when her switch flips, she feels that way. It will most likely flip back. Being BPD, her emotions flip faster, and feel stronger to her. Thinking in dialectics is hard for her, so feeling irritated means the relationship is over. Feeling good means the relationship is on. She has a hard time feeling irritated and accepting that even in loving relationships we feel irritated. People who love us can anger us, both seem opposite, and both are true. This is dialectical thinking.

She needs you to be consistent because that's the hardest thing for her. The less you personalize her behavior the less she will rocket around and feed off your reactions.

It's hard  

If she presses you on something, it's ok to say your piece once and let it go. Or, if you are in a position to help with bills, for example, do it in a way that 1) your own financial stability is not jeopardized; and 2) you do it in a way where she can feel a sense of competence.

Paying her bills will make her feel indebted and dependent, and she can both appreciate the gesture while resenting you for having that much power.

At the same time, BPD can be very debilitating for someone who is at the mercy of her emotions. It's hard to problem solve when you're flooded with emotions.

How you communicate your willingness to help will be important, and may take some soul searching on your part.

[Ashur]

Thank you I will keep that in mind and try harder to stay more stable around her. It is hard. But I will refocus.

Tomorrow We will be spending most all day together. We are.going to the baby doctor. Which is something because she didn't want me to go a few days ago.

Any advise on what to do and what not to do?

[Ashur]

Yesterday we talked for hours on the phone for hours today been here 15 mins cold as ice

[Meili]

Is being cold because of being at the dr?

[Fr4nz]

It's never too late to start setting and enforcing boundaries. She might give you some pushback at first, but it's really the only healthy thing for both of you.

If she doesn't respect your boundaries, that should be a clear sign to you that something is wrong. It should be an even bigger sign for you if you don't enforce her boundaries and allow her to cross them at will.

... .and, I'd add that an adult who is unable to take care of herself (leaving out, for instance, temporary physical illnesses) is - apart from a HUGE red flag - a very bad deal.

I think it is pretty clear that she's using you; you are cooking, cleaning, giving your credit card to her... .in exchange, well, she's doing nothing. Even worse: she pretends from you to understand when she's in a good/bad mood, all the while without any recognizable effort from her to improve her condition. Do you think this is, even minimally, an acceptable behaviour?

Okay, it is not the BPD sufferer's fault if they have the disorder, obviously... .BUT, they are nonetheless adults, they know right from wrong,  and they have to show some kind of effort to show they want to improve.

As Meilii suggested, draw your boundaries: if she cannot accept sane, adult boundaries, then trash her away; you're not supposed to take care of an adult who is clearly exploiting you.

Also, I think she's using the "bad ex" thing to play the "victim" -- indeed, most of the times these stories are plain fake or heavily distorted by the BPD sufferer, even uncosnsciously -- and refuse any personal responsibility for her behaviours, which is something typical among BPDs.