Turning point for pwBPD - point of no return?

[Jareth89]

Skip posted here https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=338514.msg13067797#msg13067797  that his gf had outside stressors at the end of year 2 which let loose the bpd behaviour traits. Does anyone know if the pwBPD can ever return to the stage where their bpd behaviours were under control (not really visible to family at all) or is this the point of no return, where a switch has been flipped and they are now comfortable in their bpd skin as if this is a new, different person you are now dealing with? I notice with my sil that her behaviour spiralled out of control last year and she has never gone back to being that same person I knew.

[TelHill]

I don't think this resolves on its own or flips off like a switch. They have to want to be in therapy and consistently work hard at it for the symptoms to decrease. The most popular therapy modality is called Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (DBT) created by Marsha Linehan.

I am an adult kid of a parent diagnosed with this. They were always like this to me.  Don't know if their symptoms showed up one day before my birth or if she was like this since childhood.

[Jareth89]

Telhill, from my perspective and my interactions with my sil, she wasn't always like she is now. Now, since last year, she is more pronounced in her behaviours. Her relationship with my brother is also different, I can tell she has been putting greater pressure on him and greater pressure on my relationship with him. Her parents are different. They are showing behaviours that they previously kept hidden. If I interpreted correctly, it appears that Skip's gf wasn't showing symptoms until year 2 and that she spiralled out of control because of 'outside stressors'...and she was never the same after that.

So what i'm saying is that she 'switched on' , as if she decided it's ok for her to 'come out'. This also appeared to trigger changes in her parents' behaviour (they are PD also to some degree). I'm saying what I'm dealing with now is a different person, operating differently...so is this the real her that I deal with now? Clearly there were stressors that brought out her  behaviour, but now even in the absence of stressors she is a different person.

[TelHill]

It's hard to say when this stuff started for my mom. I've heard my mom was a very worried kid. That's it. I was agreeing with you and offering the perspective that it doesn't turn off if it's bpd.

With Skip, this is the only post of his I've read. I would encourage you to read more about bpd and relationships. The first year of one people are always on their best behavior. I was and I'm relatively normal. Then the real person tends to come out. You let your hair down so to speak.

Don't know how long your in law has been a part of the family. That has importance in my opinion. There's lot of  great suggestions on books to read on bpd and articles noted on this site. 

There's also the possibility your in law has other mental health issues which are not bpd. Hope that helps!

[Jareth89]

Don't know how long your in law has been a part of the family. That has importance in my opinion. There's lot of  great suggestions on books to read on bpd and articles noted on this site.  

There's also the possibility your in law has other mental health issues which are not bpd. Hope that helps!

She started dating my brother around 10 yrs ago then 5 yrs ago they married. Her son is now 3. Her strange behaviours really became noticeable at the start of last year. I saw some noticeable behaviours during the wedding planning but just put it down to usual tensions during that time. She definitely has bpd traits because she cannot be alone and also dissociates occasionally (blank look), otherwise I would have said she has narc traits only. I do not know what my brother is doing in his head...going along with all this. I have yet to speak to him about this. I reckon there is a lot of dark stuff he is not telling me, not just about his wife interaction with him but also her parents interaction with him and their level of influence over him as a 3-person unit.

[Turkish]

PwBPD tend to be poorly differentiated selves. Masterson refers to the "deflated false self" while the Narcissist is the "inflated false self." Have you read the discussion here on Mirroring?

I saw (in retrospect) my uBPDx change while with me for 6 years and 2 kids. When she left me for a guy 20 years younger than me (9 younger than her), she basically became "teen mom" from my point of view.  She even grew her hair or longer to look younger. 

When they married and moved in together, she chopped her hair,  dyed it from black to blonde, and reverted back to mature mom. It was very weird. 

The link above speaks of pwBPD being chameleons, mirroring their partners in order to bond. ""Chameleon" isn't a clinical term, hence we don't promote it on the site, but it's a theme which is easy to relate to in order to understand the manifestation of a possible false self.

At the end of the day,  a person with BPD wants what all of us want: to be loved and accepted. The unhealthy coping mechanisms like Mirroring are like survival.  Dissociation and emotional dysregulation go deeper, unconscious coping mechanisms. I saw dissociation from my ex,  and even being together for 6 years, it kind of scared me.  The emotional dysregulation, anger and sometimes rage I saw from the beginning. Growing up with a BPD mother, I thought I could handle that, an empathy, comforter, soother.

My ex now has an Instagram where it looks like she fancies herself the next Marriane Williamson to teach others.  So another change in personality. In the process of divorce from her husband, this is her new journey. 

[Notwendy]

I think it is synergism between the pwBPD and an enabling partner. There's a honeymoon "love bombing " stage with lots of mirroring where the partner feels they have met their dream partner. BPD affects the most intimate of relationships the most. As the couple becomes closer and more committed, the BPD symptoms get worse.

I think at first the partner is bewildered. Since the pwBPD blames the partner, they naturally respond with attempts to please the pwBPD, take responsibility for the pwBPD's feelings and try to fix them. This, in turn, reinforces the BPD behavior, and it increases because it is reinforced.

I think there are signs that something is "off" in the beginning, but due to the partner's own personality and co-dependent traits, or poor boundaries, they don't see it or ignore it, plus the love bombing feels so darn good...

There is literature that says we tend to "match" our partners in ways- maybe not the same but our own FOO issues influence who we attract and are attracted to.

My mother is severely BPD. She can hold it together in social situations quite well. Her behavior is worse after you get to know her. She was a very beautiful, charming and alluring young woman. She was also quite affected with BPD at the time, but I suspect it was not obvious to my father at first. I am not sure when things got truly difficult with them but it was early on after marriage. He enabled her and her behaviors perpetuated. Holding boundaries with her is a challenge though. She's ruthless in her wrath and has no limits on how much hurtful behavior she will do when she's enraged.

I know you see your brother as your sil's victim, but he's part of the dynamics.

[Jareth89]

As the couple becomes closer and more committed, the BPD symptoms get worse.

I know you see your brother as your sil's victim, but he's part of the dynamics.

Why does the BPD behaviour get worse when the couple becomes closer and more committed? Yeah my brother is absolutely part of the dynamics and that has been the more disturbing revelation for me...because I did not know that about him and maybe he doesn't even know it about himself due to not being as self-aware as he should be. He knows he is being manipulated because I told him during an argument in February - I saw his reaction to what I said and he knows but can't yet face this truth and what it really means.

[Harri]

Why does the BPD behaviour get worse when the couple becomes closer and more committed?

BPD, a disorder of emotional regulation, will most often be more prevalent in intimate relationships and increase as intimacy increases.  The closer people get, the more vulnerable they are.  The more vulnerable, the greater the risk of hurt and of others seeing our flaws.   People who can not handle intense emotions, who can not see flaws of their own without going into a spiral of shame will dysregulate.

[Notwendy]

Most of us are different with casual and formal acquaintances than we are with the people closest to us. Right now, I am in casual clothing that I would not wear to work or a first date. We put on our best with those who don't know us well - such as in the workplace. Right now, there is a co-worker who is irritating to work with but I endure it at work, but then vent at home- because it is not appropriate behavior for the workplace to get into drama with a co worker. Still, the person we are in public and at home is the same person- just we show the more formal side when it's appropriate.

This is how I see it with BPD. With BPD there is so much core shame that the more formal, public persona is a mask. It's designed to hide the core shame. The person inside doesn't feel lovable and doesn't love themselves. They feel they need to be someone other than who they are to be cared for, so they make the mask. People like the mask and that gets them the attention they want, but since they aren't loved for who they are, they don't feel loved. They don't love themselves enough to allow that.

My BPD mother's friends, distant family members and acquaintances only see her persona and think she's amazing. I've observed it and she's really good, so good she could get an acting award. They believe it. She puts it on like a pro. It's eerie to watch. She's very different behind closed doors.

When she met my father ( and I think this is true with pwBPD), he knew the mask. Of course- they hardly knew each other. He fell in love with this amazing and beautiful woman. After the security of marriage, the mask came off. It had to. This happens naturally. I didn't wear sweat pants on my first date. I am wearing them now as we are doing chores. No makeup. My H has seen me dressed up and like this too - I'm the same person either way. So I don't think my mother was being deceitful- she was doing what all of us do, but to an extreme with BPD.

For the non, it's puzzling to see this happen, it's like Jekyll and Hyde. They want the persona back, and so work at appeasing the pwBPD to get to that again. There's a push-pull pattern to this. After a dysregulation- the PwBPD may fear the distance and abandonment- so the persona may come back- and a honeymoon type interval happens, until the next time. For the partner, this becomes addictive, a form of reinforcement. They get their loved one back and so continue their co-dependent behavior. Each person reinforces the other.

I watched this pattern between my parents. Huge arguments, then the next day they were all affectionate again. I've seen my mother in her persona- she's amazing. As a kid, this was the "good mommy" I longed for and if I was good and obedient enough, I might see some of that. But not if she was angry at me and then it was scary mommy.

I see a bigger picture-she's seriously affected by BPD and the persona isn't real. It's sad to think about it. She had a husband who loved her, and she has grown kids who want her to love them- even as adults, but she can't connect with that due to her own way of seeing things. It's sad actually.