Close to breaking NC - please stop me

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I am very close to breaking No Contact tonight. I managed through christmas, but its her birthday tomorrow and its bringing back so many memories, coupled with the snow here in the Netherlands, that it is costing me all my energy to not say something to her through Whatsapp.

Little back story: been with her for 4 years, last year we were living together. We broke up and recycled close around 10 times. Break ups were sometimes mine, sometimes her. Usually I just couldn't take the walking on eggshells and sudden outbursts anymore, which resulted in me pushing away. When that happens, she paints me fully black for around a month or so, then it seems Im painted white again.

So its been a month now of seperation and 2 to 3 weeks of NC. I have no idea if im already white in her head, but a few weeks ago I was NOT. Main reason I don't want to break NC is that I give in to her then, I show her that I am weak, and she will get stronger from that. If I'd say something, my best bet is that she'll return nothing, or she'll stay distant. But I don't know for sure and that doubt is killing me.

I know I should keep as far away from her as possible, but a large part of me WANTS to be back with her. I know its not a good idea, parents think it is a terrible idea and we have tried so many times that I already know the results, so its stupid to think like that. But I just think like that.

So, in about 4 hours its midnight here and I'm very tempted to congratulate her, but what's the point? What's the use? Nothing. I might feel a slightly better when I send the message, like a junky finally getting his fix, but after that I'll probably feel worse. I want to be the better person here, and have no contact, and if there is contact let her begin. Not me. So I need help in the upcoming hours to stay away from her!

Thanks in advance.

[CloseToFreedom]

I am very close to breaking No Contact tonight. I managed through christmas, but its her birthday tomorrow and its bringing back so many memories, coupled with the snow here in the Netherlands, that it is costing me all my energy to not say something to her through Whatsapp.

Little back story: been with her for 4 years, last year we were living together. We broke up and recycled close around 10 times. Break ups were sometimes mine, sometimes her. Usually I just couldn't take the walking on eggshells and sudden outbursts anymore, which resulted in me pushing away. When that happens, she paints me fully black for around a month or so, then it seems Im painted white again.

So its been a month now of seperation and 2 to 3 weeks of NC. I have no idea if im already white in her head, but a few weeks ago I was NOT. Main reason I don't want to break NC is that I give in to her then, I show her that I am weak, and she will get stronger from that. If I'd say something, my best bet is that she'll return nothing, or she'll stay distant. But I don't know for sure and that doubt is killing me.

I know I should keep as far away from her as possible, but a large part of me WANTS to be back with her. I know its not a good idea, parents think it is a terrible idea and we have tried so many times that I already know the results, so its stupid to think like that. But I just think like that.

So, in about 4 hours its midnight here and I'm very tempted to congratulate her, but what's the point? What's the use? Nothing. I might feel a slightly better when I send the message, like a junky finally getting his fix, but after that I'll probably feel worse. I want to be the better person here, and have no contact, and if there is contact let her begin. Not me. So I need help in the upcoming hours to stay away from her!

Thanks in advance.

[CareTaker]

but after that I'll probably feel worse.

I think you have just answered your own question here. Nobody can tell you what to do, but if you think about it for a while, maybe deep down inside you, you know the answer.

You got 4 hours, think deeply and wisely about your next move.

I hope you make the right choice. 

[myself]

Would you contact her more for her or for yourself? Wishing her happy birthday just because it's her birthday is one thing. Wishing her happy birthday because you're wanting to get back with her is another. Be as clear as you can about what your motives/feelings are, and act accordingly. That may also help you to not contact her, looking at the deeper/bigger picture. What's best for you?

Seeing it from an addictive point of view, what happens after you try for this quick 'fix'? If she doesn't respond, do you try again? If she does respond, do you try again? How long do you want to keep the pattern/problem going? The way you describe it, where someone has to be the one to make the first move, sounds like an unhealthy game you're playing more than a good relationship. Perhaps your time and efforts would be better spent elsewhere.

Having been in similar situations with birthdays, holidays and anniversaries going by while broken up, and having both sent messages and not sent, I can say that it really didn't make much difference which way I went. The disorder kept her from being a consistent friend and partner, which ultimately ended the relationship. Honestly, the best thing to do is decide if you are really done or not, and then go from there. Until you make that choice, and stick with it, you're just running in place.

[Inside]

CloseToFreedom - continue on!

... .well, you’ve got my recycle number topped by three!  Have you noticed that (beyond makeup sex) after reconnecting, you’re never quite as close, or trusting, or willing to ‘invest’ what you had at the beginning... ?  I once described to my uBPDxgf of 3 years that every time we got back together it was as if we’d taken another step back from each other, and could only get ‘so close.’  I think she agreed…

You’re not going to repair this, too many parts are missing… and most of all, she won’t let you.  Her fears will trump her desires, every time.  You will be judged in her eyes on your ability to ‘stay away,’ more points for NC, believe it or not.  Not that she doesn't want to hear from you - but that she’ll respect you more if she doesn't…  

My thoughts regarding breaking NC or recycling were - if nothing else, letting myself down easier.  But it never worked that way, because with every additional attempt to make it work, every additional smidgen of joy, came an equal and opposite recognition of pain and loss…  

In the end, we were used.  If not intentional, then by default.  PwBPD can not reach the level of love and commitmentment we’re capable of, they can only give it in very short but intense bursts.  There is no future with them beyond additional pain, pain that, to me, feels like ten times the pleasure…  You deserve more.  If this r/s has hurt you, then you’re capable of more.  She isn’t.  Read around here where marriage gets you - trapped, in a frigid Hell, left to raise your children alone, lacking friends or family ... as she’s driven them away.  Broke, paying for treatment she will not accept or benefit…  

Yes, it’s a Drug - the most powerful I’ve ever heard of, or experienced.  We may forever be addicted, as it directly fed our core human desires…  I finally walked out, and most importantly, stayed out.  That was a year ago.  No contact of consequence, and no intensions; desire, yes... . Friends and family ‘joked,’ “So this time it’s over?”  Somewhat ashamed, I responded, ‘It has to be’ - and have reminded myself of that ever since.  

The thing is, she’ll forever be out there, truly committed to no one ... .no matter what she’s said or signed…  She is a human virus in need of a host.  And I am but a man looking to recover.  Stay here with us, in recovery.  Read with care the many posts of those having become committed, having shared a child with a BP…  but rely on the executive functioning portion of your brain … and not your core lizard brain that would merely have you fertilizing eggs…  Make ‘her day,’ You’re Day - your rebirth, a celebration of your freedom to seek and find a healthy and worthy mate, someone worthy of your genetics!  - then get back here and tell us all about it

[CloseToFreedom]

but after that I'll probably feel worse.

I think you have just answered your own question here. Nobody can tell you what to do, but if you think about it for a while, maybe deep down inside you, you know the answer.

You got 4 hours, think deeply and wisely about your next move.

I hope you make the right choice. 

Thanks, I know i have the knowledge to make the right choice (that is, not making contact), but unfortunately my feelings are SO different in this regard. Managed to stay NC at least, with two hours on the clock - of course there's another entire day where its her birthday, but if I survive tonight I think I might survive tomorrow as well.

Would you contact her more for her or for yourself? Wishing her happy birthday just because it's her birthday is one thing. Wishing her happy birthday because you're wanting to get back with her is another. Be as clear as you can about what your motives/feelings are, and act accordingly. That may also help you to not contact her, looking at the deeper/bigger picture. What's best for you?

Seeing it from an addictive point of view, what happens after you try for this quick 'fix'? If she doesn't respond, do you try again? If she does respond, do you try again? How long do you want to keep the pattern/problem going? The way you describe it, where someone has to be the one to make the first move, sounds like an unhealthy game you're playing more than a good relationship. Perhaps your time and efforts would be better spent elsewhere.

Having been in similar situations with birthdays, holidays and anniversaries going by while broken up, and having both sent messages and not sent, I can say that it really didn't make much difference which way I went. The disorder kept her from being a consistent friend and partner, which ultimately ended the relationship. Honestly, the best thing to do is decide if you are really done or not, and then go from there. Until you make that choice, and stick with it, you're just running in place.

Oh I'd absolutely contact for MYSELF, not because it is her birthday. Although part of me is sad for her, I know she's probably celebrating it alone tonight, as all our mutual friends are out of town and she doesnt really have friends of her own. Unless she already found a replacement of course, but there's no way of knowing as Ive blocked her on social media.

Every time we split up I think I make the definitive choice of not going back, but she always reels me back in, although she makes me feel like I was the one that wanted it - and she makes me work for it. I need to stay out of it this time - but perhaps I have no choice as she seems to be really done with it. Maybe for the best. Although you never know for sure. Its been a month and truth to be hold, I've expected that she would have broken NC by now. But she hasn't. That's also eating away at me.

CloseToFreedom - continue on!

... .well, you’ve got my recycle number topped by three!  Have you noticed that (beyond makeup sex) after reconnecting, you’re never quite as close, or trusting, or willing to ‘invest’ what you had at the beginning... ?  I once described to my uBPDxgf of 3 years that every time we got back together it was as if we’d taken another step back from each other, and could only get ‘so close.’  I think she agreed…

I guess, although when we got back together it was always again very intense, for a couple of days / weeks at least.

You’re not going to repair this, too many parts are missing… and most of all, she won’t let you.  Her fears will trump her desires, every time.  You will be judged in her eyes on your ability to ‘stay away,’ more points for NC, believe it or not.  Not that she doesn't want to hear from you - but that she’ll respect you more if she doesn't…

My thoughts regarding breaking NC or recycling were - if nothing else, letting myself down easier.  But it never worked that way, because with every additional attempt to make it work, every additional smidgen of joy, came an equal and opposite recognition of pain and loss…  

Thats also part of what drives me to stay NC... .to show her I've matured and I won't take any of it no more. Show her who's the boss, so to speak. Its an act but at least its better than begging her to come back.

In the end, we were used.  If not intentional, then by default.  PwBPD can not reach the level of love and commitmentment we’re capable of, they can only give it in very short but intense bursts.  There is no future with them beyond additional pain, pain that, to me, feels like ten times the pleasure…  You deserve more.  If this r/s has hurt you, then you’re capable of more.  She isn’t.  Read around here where marriage gets you - trapped, in a frigid Hell, left to raise your children alone, lacking friends or family ... as she’s driven them away.  Broke, paying for treatment she will not accept or benefit…  

Yeah I know I try to hold on to the things I read. Of course she is undiagnosed so I am often in doubt if she was really that bad. But she tried to change me so much, was so often angry for no reason, threatened suicide when I would want to go out with mates, stuff like that... .It wasn't healthy. The last couple of months of our relationship I was thinking: is this someone I can marry or heaven forbit have kids with? I just couldn't see it anymore.

Yes, it’s a Drug - the most powerful I’ve ever heard of, or experienced.  We may forever be addicted, as it directly fed our core human desires…  I finally walked out, and most importantly, stayed out.  That was a year ago.  No contact of consequence, and no intensions; desire, yes... . Friends and family ‘joked,’ “So this time it’s over?”  Somewhat ashamed, I responded, ‘It has to be’ - and have reminded myself of that ever since.  

Friends joked about this as well... .is it over again? For how long this time? Man... .I was even afraid to give them an answer, because I know we always got back together. Thing is, part of me was hoping that would happen again this time. My parents didnt joke about it though. They saw me changing the past four years into a shell of what I was. They are very happy its over and they are trying to cope with the fact that Im so depressed now, but they wont accept if I'd get back with her again. As far as they are concerned, she's straight up poison. And yes, it is an addiction.

The thing is, she’ll forever be out there, truly committed to no one ... .no matter what she’s said or signed…  She is a human virus in need of a host.  And I am but a man looking to recover.  Stay here with us, in recovery.  Read with care the many posts of those having become committed, having shared a child with a BP…  but rely on the executive functioning portion of your brain … and not your core lizard brain that would merely have you fertilizing eggs…  Make ‘her day,’ You’re Day - your rebirth, a celebration of your freedom to seek and find a healthy and worthy mate, someone worthy of your genetics!  - then get back here and tell us all about it

I hope you are right, I hope I am right in 'diagnosing' her. For some reason it is important for me to have proof that she is indeed not right... .I mean, what if she's totally happy with the next person forever... .then I have to face the fact that maybe its me? It is true that she seems to jump from one person to the other. She dumped the previous guy for me, and during our short break ups there was always new supply waiting, although she always came back to me because there was 'something wrong' with the others. They probably didnt take her ___ as well as me.

I will stay her and continue reading and communicating. Thank you, thank you all for your words.

It's almost a month now (few days short of) and man what a hell of a month this was. On to better days, I hope. And still, somewhere back in my mind I hope she will be the one breaking no contact, so I can say to myself: see? She'll never let up. You can let her go now.

[MrConfusedWithItAll]

There will always be a reason to call or text.  But there is a bigger reason not to call or text.  Do you really want to re-engage with all that gas lighting, manipulation, abuse, chaos and drama?  Is this really want you want from a relationship?  My friend it really is way better to be single and lonely than to be in such a relationship.  I too am suffering tonight and I too would love to exchange a text or two - but it is over and there can be no return to that unhealthy relationship.  NC is the bitter antibiotic we have to swallow.  There is no other way.

[outside9x]

I feel your pain, I do.  Many times I think I am ok, and it's been awhile, but like today I so much badly want to be back with her so so much it hurts and makes me feel like crying.  But like you, I had 7-10 break ups and a few were mine also since I was so emotionally devastated and tired or she was caught being on a dating site and unforgiven about it.

To me it's not even a matter of giving her strength or the upper hand or letting her think everything she thought or did was right.   Who cares about that.  It's about even if she decided to meet and fall in love again, it would be just the same thing again, and I know this, not only from my history with her, but her whole family.  She was a beauty and at my age 64, and believe me I been on dating sites she in the top 1%, but she needs to be like that because she needs supply.  Otherwise she be forced to look inside and that would destroy her.  Lucky for her, she has lots of money to spend on cosmetic surgeries.  Lots!

Also I do know probably like them all they need love want love and that's what so frustrating because we so gladly give to them and them to us but, for awhile ... .you know as well as I , not only is it not sustainable, it's really all part of the BPD .  The highs & the lows, the white thinking & the black.  It's all a part of BPD .  The highs & the lows.  


In other words, it's all fantasy but we love it and became addicted.  It ruins us, but we can heal.  I know it, I feel it.

That's all I can tell you.  For yes, during the year and a half away, I gave in , and almost met up with her.  Then months later I would hear a different story from her , that was not even close to any reality of events that happen.  Part of their way to punish and make themselves feel good, and castrate us.

Hang in there.  I can't see how it can turn our good for me to go back, plus they will turn and paint you black even worst, and you are right, they know they are in control and having no true empathy they will destroy us.

Take care!  Choose for yourself.

[CloseToFreedom]

Thanks for the feedback people. I will stay strong and keep up the NC. Its extremely difficult but I have to do it, for myself.

[NYMike]

CloseToFreedom - continue on!

... .well, you’ve got my recycle number topped by three!  Have you noticed that (beyond makeup sex) after reconnecting, you’re never quite as close, or trusting, or willing to ‘invest’ what you had at the beginning... ?  I once described to my uBPDxgf of 3 years that every time we got back together it was as if we’d taken another step back from each other, and could only get ‘so close.’  I think she agreed…

You’re not going to repair this, too many parts are missing… and most of all, she won’t let you.  Her fears will trump her desires, every time.  You will be judged in her eyes on your ability to ‘stay away,’ more points for NC, believe it or not.  Not that she doesn't want to hear from you - but that she’ll respect you more if she doesn't…  

My thoughts regarding breaking NC or recycling were - if nothing else, letting myself down easier.  But it never worked that way, because with every additional attempt to make it work, every additional smidgen of joy, came an equal and opposite recognition of pain and loss…  

In the end, we were used.  If not intentional, then by default.  PwBPD can not reach the level of love and commitmentment we’re capable of, they can only give it in very short but intense bursts.  There is no future with them beyond additional pain, pain that, to me, feels like ten times the pleasure…  You deserve more.  If this r/s has hurt you, then you’re capable of more.  She isn’t.  Read around here where marriage gets you - trapped, in a frigid Hell, left to raise your children alone, lacking friends or family ... as she’s driven them away.  Broke, paying for treatment she will not accept or benefit…  

Yes, it’s a Drug - the most powerful I’ve ever heard of, or experienced.  We may forever be addicted, as it directly fed our core human desires…  I finally walked out, and most importantly, stayed out.  That was a year ago.  No contact of consequence, and no intensions; desire, yes... . Friends and family ‘joked,’ “So this time it’s over?”  Somewhat ashamed, I responded, ‘It has to be’ - and have reminded myself of that ever since.  

The thing is, she’ll forever be out there, truly committed to no one ... .no matter what she’s said or signed…  She is a human virus in need of a host.  And I am but a man looking to recover.  Stay here with us, in recovery.  Read with care the many posts of those having become committed, having shared a child with a BP…  but rely on the executive functioning portion of your brain … and not your core lizard brain that would merely have you fertilizing eggs…  Make ‘her day,’ You’re Day - your rebirth, a celebration of your freedom to seek and find a healthy and worthy mate, someone worthy of your genetics!  - then get back here and tell us all about it

Nice Post.Thank You very much.It helped me tonight.Today has been tough for me also.I have 14 days NC and continue the trudge to happy destiny.

[CloseToFreedom]

Well, it's officially her birthday now. I'm not going to contact her. So I'll just say it here.

Happy birthday, A.

For four years, we've celebrated our birthdays together. Last year, I got you a new Nintendo 3DS (that you've used close to three times), an ice skating show from Disney and a holiday to a vacation resort. The year before that, I bought you a weekend in our capital city, in a very expensive hotel where we made love and had fun. Nothing was too much for you, I loved spending money on you because when I got you presents, you got close to the idolizing state you were in when we first started hanging out. It brought me close to seeying you happy, like you used to be happy just to see me. Something that has long passed.

When it was your birthday, we made sure to stay up till midnight to not miss the beginning of it. Holding you in my arms, kissing you, making love with you, while you were just as (if not more) interested in the many congratiolations you got through facebook. And from your father, if he had time, from halfway across the world. A man you hated for leaving you, which you split black more times than I can count, but when he showed you affection the one or two times a year, he was whiter than white. I should have seen you treat all the important men in your life like that. Its how you treated me for four years.

I hope you are having a good time on your birthday right now, but I have the feeling you are not. Not internally, anyway. And the thing is, it really breaks my heart. I somehow still love you so much that it breaks my hearts to think about you not being happy. Why should I? You never really cared if I was happy. It was just an act. You needed me to need you. Well, I needed you.

But no more. I can't let myself need you anymore. I need to need me, myself, I need to find out who I am again and love the boy trapped in this man's body. As cheesy as it sounds, you brought out the flaws in me, and now that they are exposed, it is time to work on them and become a better person. I hope you can do the same, but I really doubt that.

If this sounds bitter, I'm sorry. It is not meant that way, but I just have a lot of opressed feelings in me. I've learned to hide them from the world, even from myself, for four years.

Here's to a better year, both for you and for me. But not for us together.

[Inside]

Thanks for the feedback people. I will stay strong and keep up the NC. Its extremely difficult but I have to do it, for myself.

Perfect, even though it feels far from it…  

I can’t help but consider what your parents have said, and feel ... .as I’m likely around their age.  Keep in mind that most people don’t understand BPD, and though not formally diagnosed, it sounds like you’re dealing with it.  So the best advice they can give is to run!  

I’m certain that in this case your parents care most about you so will be the most adamant about you leaving, if to the point of anger.  They care about you that much!  They don’t know how to warn you, or advise you, but they love you, and with all their experience in life, and you being a part of them ... .I hope you can understand and respect their fear and concern.  If possible, I’ll suggest spending a bit more time with them.  Share this with them, and you’ll likely be surprised what they may have to share as well.  No one will accept seeing their child hurt, so they’re going to despise anything or anyone who’d hurt you.  

Do continue to read around here, when you need strength.  My best advice is to remind yourself that this wasn’t you, BPD is not your fault.  And… my BPex is now in her late 40’s, and once having yelled, “I refuse to be labeled!”  Most do, thus waiting for a ‘formal diagnosis’ of BPD may never happen.  Consider this, whatever she has, it’s not gotten better - every reconnect has led to the same, and not only with you.  You want the person you fell in love with, I’d love the same… but we fell in love with a behavior that cleverly reflected our desires.  But as we moved toward our lovers, they became distant, like an elution ... .and when we needed them most - they vanished.  Worse, we were blamed.

I know what you’re going through ... I’ll never forget it…  Every thought, every minute, every day… like walking through life with a chunk of you missing, a massive chunk...  Numb.  Sick.  Barely there ... .as life appears to continue around you.  And no one understands - and even when you find those who do, like us, it hardly helps ... .cuz there’s nothing we can say or suggest that will make it right.  It take’s all you’ve got.  But, after you’ve done it (and young), you will have withstood something few have - and likely be far better prepared for whatever else life may throw at you.  Not easy words to say, very hard earned, but we will all have earned the right to say them.  

You can do it, and we’re here

[fromheeltoheal]

Ever been to an AA meeting?  One reason alcoholics go to meetings is to be reminded how bad it was when they were out there drinking, and when a newcomer shows up, fresh off the booze and in pain, it serves as a great reminder of just how bad it was.  These relationships can feel like an addiction, which you allude to, and it's very helpful when trying to break that addiction to remember the truth of the relationship, which for most of us was far more bad than good.  You can do that by reading all the war stories here, and probably connecting with many of them, but also, to make it more personal, make a list of all the unacceptable crap you tolerated in the relationship and read it and add to it, purely as a focus shift and a focus on the truth.  What would be the first entry on that list?

A much bigger issue, down the road maybe once you cut the cord for good, is to look strongly at that addiction and why we were predisposed to get addicted to begin with, and why we thought that addiction was 'love' when we were in it.  Why did we lose touch with rational thought?  Why did we mistake addiction and need for love?  What is love?  By focusing on how bad the relationship was in truth, not making it worse than it was but exactly as it really was, and then slowly shifting the focus from her to you and from the past to the future is your path to freedom, along with the steps to detachment over there ------->

[CloseToFreedom]

Inside: Thank you for your uplifting words. I'm not THAT young anymore... .I'm 30. I should've known better. I saw the red flags at the beginning and chose to ignore them.

I was 26, and just got out of a 9 year relatioship with my childhood love that cheated on me multiple times. I was using alcohol and drugs to numb the painful and shameful feelings that situation brought on. In that situation I met her, she was 18, but she seemed wise beyond her years. I could talk about my painful past, and she as well about her father that left her when she was a child. But she was so clingy, wouldn't let a day go by without seeing me, constantly texting me. I never experienced this before, someone that NEEDED me so much. It felt so powerful and suffocating at the same time. I tried to keep my distance, but the more I did that, the more she wanted me. Standing in front of my door at the middle of the night ringing the bell. Crying and screaming when I wanted a day off for myself. I mistook this behaviour for love, love she had for me. But it wasn't love. She needed someone to be her father. And just like her father, that someone wasn't interesting anymore once he was readily available.

In the 10 times we split up, each time she got interested in me again only when I started to move on. She wants what she cant have, she wants her distant father. Each and every time I fall for it and open myself up completely, become entirely available to her, dependent on her even, and that's always when the cracks start to show. She gets irritated, the smallest things I do set her off, I'm never good enough, don't listen enough, don't make time enough. Until I can't take it anymore and I ask her to leave. And then it's done again, and this macabre dance starts again.

But no more. It's done now. Even if she starts to contact me in the future, which, to my own shameful recognition, I still hope and long for, I have to remain strong and disregard it.

Thank you for reading.


@fromheeltoheal: Yes, and my parents are the ones that try to remember me about the bad times, bad times I told them myself. But the longer I'm in NC, the less I remember the bad times and the more I start to idolize her. I try to remember the truth, as you can see in the things I write above, but feelings have a way of misguiding you. I read every topic here front to back, I mean the entire history of this board, I've read them all the past month. As for a list of stuff I tolerated. PLEASE READ it, I'm going to write it now:

- I bought a house for the two of us, but she only paid a little because she was still studying. In the end when she started working she made almost as much as me, but she got insanely angry if I even wanted to talk about splitting the costs more fairly.

- I had to change my clothes, my hair, the way I shave, hell, even the way I ate: if the fork touched my teeth during diner she would get mad.

- She HATED it when I couldn't answer the phone or respond to a message. Even if I was at work, if I had an important meeting, she would get angry if I couldn't talk.

- Going out on my own with friends was terrible. I mean I would have loved it if she could join us but when we started living together she almost never felt like it. Even if I went once a month on my own with friends she hated that. I actually notified her days before and she always agreed, but man when the night came... .she would hate me for it. Give me the silent treatment, until I was ready to go, she would start an argument. Even going as far as threatening suicide on multiple occations. THat made me even hate her more, as I felt incredibly manipulated.

- When we had a lot of sex in the beginning of the relationship, she said I only used her for the sex. When it got less in time, she complained about a lack of intimacy. After the honeymoon phase she NEVER initated sex, she said she wasnt able to, I should always be the one making her horny.

- She hated that I started going to the gym. I wanted to feel more secure about myself and improve my body, also for her, but it wasn't 'her' time so she started to hate it.

- Man, she hated it when I farted. I already tried to go to the toilet as much as possible to do it there (in my own freakin home!) but if I accidentally let one rip, there was hell to pay.

- On holidays, I had to do all the 'work', like getting drinks or clean towels. Even when I had a sore foot from running on the beach and twisting my leg, the other morning she was angry that SHE had to get clean towels. We had an argument for an entire day. If I didnt get drinks in the resort, there just wouldn't be any drinks.

- She wanted a man that could handle her, that could tell her no is no. But when I tried that, it only made her mad.

The list is endless. Oh well.

[fromheeltoheal]

Good list Close; does it help you not want to contact her?

The list is endless. Oh well.

So keep adding to it and reading it.  We get to make what happened mean whatever we want it to, and you can use that list purely as a tool to break free, a freedom list; how good does that feel?

[Inside]

[dang, I either read or type too slow - Im gonna post this without reading the latest ]

If this sounds bitter, I'm sorry. It is not meant that way, but I just have a lot of opressed feelings in me. I've learned to hide them from the world, even from myself, for four years.

Here's to a better year, both for you and for me. But not for us together.

Well… you brought this guy to tears... damn.  But well said.  Felt like I was witnessing someone grow, right before my eyes.  If you can do this, You can do anything!

-- and NYMike - you too, let’s continue to make the most of this stuff

[CloseToFreedom]

Ok, I realise the following is going to sound very childish, but I need to be honest here so you all can keep track of my progress. I also realise that the following might not be progress at all. And it is unhealthy. Very unhealthy.

So one of our larger break ups was 2,5 years ago, almost 2 months. I got into a depression and almost lost my job. Anyway, at the beginning of our relationship she introduced me

To whatsapp, this chat program on the mobile phone. We had lots of contact through it. You can see when someone is online on there. So i was in this very dark dark place two years ago with the break up and i would constantly check if she was online day and night. Even going as far as lying on bed at night falling asleep at her screen. Sometimes she would be online for a long time and i wondered if she was chatting with someone or doing the same thing as me, staring at my online status like an obsessive stalker. When we got back together eventually, turned out she was often doing the same thing.

Like I said, unhealthy. So this seems like a habit that has returned again with this break up. Often im just watching the telly and in the mean time looking if shes online. So tonight on her birthday she was online as well. And i was wondering again... .Is she doing the same? And sure enough, almost giving me a heart attack, she started typing to me. She didnt go through with it, didnt send anything. Almost like a sign, yes Im looking too, or like bait, yes come on and type something to me.

I havent typed anything and im not planning too. As strange as it sounds, this seemed to help me. It was some sort of twisted validation, of her admitting, yes, Im having a hard time too. It is not only you. Thats what it feels like anyway.

I realise this is a very obsessive and unhealthy situation but I hope i can use it to my advantage to feel some validation and to slowly start to get on with my life. Im sorry if it unvalidates my previous post that brought you to tears. Its just... .She and I have gone through so much the past four years and it was all so emotional that even a seemingly small thing like this has a big effect on me.

Now i must stay strong and Stay in NC. In some ways it erases some doubts and feelings I had that I wouldnt have gotten answers too if I bluntly asked them. If that makes sense.

[Inside]

CloseToFreedom,

... .I suspect we all do or have done similar things…  Me and my BP met through a group of friends that often receive group emails.  Seeking attention, she will respond with a ‘return to all.’  After a couple of these, I emailed her, to remind her she still, after two and a half years... owed me money.  I’d helped her close on a house.  Nothing, for a month.  Again, she ‘returns to all,’ though many if not all of her ‘responses’ are designed ‘for me.’  I email her again, businesslike, both times.  2 weeks later I get a letter, with a check for a small fraction of what I’m owed - and a “Cease & Desist” demand from ‘ever contacting her again about money’!  ... .after boiling ... over this further use & abuse, my brother convinced me to forget it.  I did (though apparently not )…

Two weeks later, I’d met with the friends but had to leave early, a text arrives from her … showing up as ‘unknown’ cuz she’s been deleted from my phone … she’s wanting to know how I’m doing... ?!  I’ve not responded.  A week ago, another ‘respond to all’ message from her ‘to our group,’ no doubt to remind me ‘she’s still around.’  This is a longtime group of friends I’ve near totally avoided for over a year to keep from running into her… ... .not to mention my closest friend among them having stopped hanging out with me as she’d begun going out with him! - a married guy, and a friend no longer… 

They do this stuff, and it hurts.  It even hurts to realize they really wanted us… but neither their wanting, or our wanting will change a thing…  It doesn't work, it hasn’t worked and beyond any doubt to me, it would/ will never work.  We tried.  And so did they.  We did not fail - but in ‘their defense,’ we will be blamed... .  And even if you reached the point as I did with my uBPDgf, a point at which she decides to ‘seek help,’ and begins to admit ‘she’s crazy,’ that acknowledgement was not enough for her to break a life-long pattern of seeking the constant attention of others, both men and women, while keeping me at a convenient distance... .

It’s truly a tragedy… in all directions...   It’s dealing with our most basel emotions, the attraction bonds that make us human, that got us here to begin with.  Powerful stuff, for which many have killed and died for.  We are no different, and this must truly be a corner of Hell…  To get out apparently takes all we’ve got - and as long as we’re not hurting others or further damaging ourselves, I think we’re entitled to use whatever methods we find necessary to heal... .  No need to apologize, we understand

[CloseToFreedom]

CloseToFreedom,

... .I suspect we all do or have done similar things…  Me and my BP met through a group of friends that often receive group emails.  Seeking attention, she will respond with a ‘return to all.’  After a couple of these, I emailed her, to remind her she still, after two and a half years... owed me money.  I’d helped her close on a house.  Nothing, for a month.  Again, she ‘returns to all,’ though many if not all of her ‘responses’ are designed ‘for me.’  I email her again, businesslike, both times.  2 weeks later I get a letter, with a check for a small fraction of what I’m owed - and a “Cease & Desist” demand from ‘ever contacting her again about money’!  ... .after boiling ... over this further use & abuse, my brother convinced me to forget it.  I did (though apparently not )…

Two weeks later, I’d met with the friends but had to leave early, a text arrives from her … showing up as ‘unknown’ cuz she’s been deleted from my phone … she’s wanting to know how I’m doing... ?!  I’ve not responded.  A week ago, another ‘respond to all’ message from her ‘to our group,’ no doubt to remind me ‘she’s still around.’  This is a longtime group of friends I’ve near totally avoided for over a year to keep from running into her… ... .not to mention my closest friend among them having stopped hanging out with me as she’d begun going out with him! - a married guy, and a friend no longer… 

They do this stuff, and it hurts.  It even hurts to realize they really wanted us… but neither their wanting, or our wanting will change a thing…  It doesn't work, it hasn’t worked and beyond any doubt to me, it would/ will never work.  We tried.  And so did they.  We did not fail - but in ‘their defense,’ we will be blamed... .  And even if you reached the point as I did with my uBPDgf, a point at which she decides to ‘seek help,’ and begins to admit ‘she’s crazy,’ that acknowledgement was not enough for her to break a life-long pattern of seeking the constant attention of others, both men and women, while keeping me at a convenient distance... .

It’s truly a tragedy… in all directions...   It’s dealing with our most basel emotions, the attraction bonds that make us human, that got us here to begin with.  Powerful stuff, for which many have killed and died for.  We are no different, and this must truly be a corner of Hell…  To get out apparently takes all we’ve got - and as long as we’re not hurting others or further damaging ourselves, I think we’re entitled to use whatever methods we find necessary to heal... .  No need to apologize, we understand

Powerful stuff. My ex has been hanging out with a friend of mine as well, by the way. My friend just says 'hey Im friends with you and with her, I won't choose', not that I'm asking him. But I wish he'd see he's being used for emotional supply. I mean, when I was with her, she'd always found reasons why this friend of mine was scum of the earth. Now that we're done, she suddenly wants to hang out with him. Uhuh... .Its strange, I mean, find some friends of your own for gods sake! Oh well.

I still think my reaction last night was a bit childish, but then again thats what the night sometimes does with your mind. Im very happy that I resisted the urge to contact her, however, and I will try and continue to do so today. It's a daily battle, come to think of it. Hopefully things will become easier.

[Ayreana]

Hi,

It's now allmost 4 weeks, since my BPDex left me, and it is so freaking hard not to contact him. This is our third break-up. And every time we would get back together I noticed that our relationship wasn't the same. I had some serious trust issues. Because during the breakup he was chatting with other women. It got to the point that I was checking his email and such.

This time, i said to him, don't expect me to contact you.

So up untill now, I haven't. I blocked his old facebook, phone everything. But he made a new FB and I saw that by accident (he replied to one of his friends who was my fb friend too) I instantly blocked that friend, his family, the new girl on his FB and him.

But... .I found out that he did'nt changed his address. I keep sending his mail back to the bill collectors and write his new address on it. But still I get his mail. So eventually I had to call, but I called his mother. So hopefully he will change his address. During this phone conversation, I heard his voice on the background. And damn that was painfull.

It is hard for me to post here, because I am Dutch, and it is very difficult to express your feelings in another language.

[Trog]

Every single time ive had any contact with my wife and short lived pleasure quickly turns to pain, she will freak out about somethinf or she will call just to hurt me. The last example was a gone call to tell me she had a crush on another guy! I just can't understand why you would call someone specifically to say that, esp as we had not spoken in weeks.

Each and every time any contact is had, I end up hurt. Sometimes deliberatey by her sometimes just the interaction is painful. She is not careful with my emotions, all that has ever mattered is her, as far as my advise, the contacts are never ever about you, or offering an apology. Everything is always about them and you will always wind up in pain. Don't give her the satisfaction

[CloseToFreedom]

Hi,

It's now allmost 4 weeks, since my BPDex left me, and it is so freaking hard not to contact him. This is our third break-up. And every time we would get back together I noticed that our relationship wasn't the same. I had some serious trust issues. Because during the breakup he was chatting with other women. It got to the point that I was checking his email and such.

This time, i said to him, don't expect me to contact you.

So up untill now, I haven't. I blocked his old facebook, phone everything. But he made a new FB and I saw that by accident (he replied to one of his friends who was my fb friend too) I instantly blocked that friend, his family, the new girl on his FB and him.

But... .I found out that he did'nt changed his address. I keep sending his mail back to the bill collectors and write his new address on it. But still I get his mail. So eventually I had to call, but I called his mother. So hopefully he will change his address. During this phone conversation, I heard his voice on the background. And damn that was painfull.

It is hard for me to post here, because I am Dutch, and it is very difficult to express your feelings in another language.

No problem, I am Dutch too so I have the same problem, but I think you and me are both doing a good job in English! It's very difficult like you say, and I admire that you try to see him as little as possible on social media. Ive blocked my ex too. Ialso have contact with her mother for things like mail and bills, as we were living together. Strictly no contact with the ex herself.

As for getting back together, it always feels somewhat like the honeymoon phase with us (maybe not as intense, but still pretty good). We both seem extremely happy with being together, although there are always problems in the back of our head (thanks to burning bridges... .like, what will our families and friends think?). But the ___ always hits the fan eventually. No matter how hard we try. You'd think after 10 times you would've learned by now.

If you ever want to talk in Dutch because its better to express your feelings that way, hit me up. Like I said, I'm Dutch as well.

Every single time ive had any contact with my wife and short lived pleasure quickly turns to pain, she will freak out about somethinf or she will call just to hurt me. The last example was a gone call to tell me she had a crush on another guy! I just can't understand why you would call someone specifically to say that, esp as we had not spoken in weeks.

Each and every time any contact is had, I end up hurt. Sometimes deliberatey by her sometimes just the interaction is painful. She is not careful with my emotions, all that has ever mattered is her, as far as my advise, the contacts are never ever about you, or offering an apology. Everything is always about them and you will always wind up in pain. Don't give her the satisfaction

Its because they want you to still think about them, and for instance telling you they have a new crush is making sure you still think about them. Someone who does that, does NOT have the best interest for you. At all.

[Ayreana]

Ok, I realise the following is going to sound very childish, but I need to be honest here so you all can keep track of my progress. I also realise that the following might not be progress at all. And it is unhealthy. Very unhealthy.

So one of our larger break ups was 2,5 years ago, almost 2 months. I got into a depression and almost lost my job. Anyway, at the beginning of our relationship she introduced me

To whatsapp, this chat program on the mobile phone. We had lots of contact through it. You can see when someone is online on there. So i was in this very dark dark place two years ago with the break up and i would constantly check if she was online day and night. Even going as far as lying on bed at night falling asleep at her screen. Sometimes she would be online for a long time and i wondered if she was chatting with someone or doing the same thing as me, staring at my online status like an obsessive stalker. When we got back together eventually, turned out she was often doing the same thing.

Like I said, unhealthy. So this seems like a habit that has returned again with this break up. Often im just watching the telly and in the mean time looking if shes online. So tonight on her birthday she was online as well. And i was wondering again... .Is she doing the same? And sure enough, almost giving me a heart attack, she started typing to me. She didnt go through with it, didnt send anything. Almost like a sign, yes Im looking too, or like bait, yes come on and type something to me.

I havent typed anything and im not planning too. As strange as it sounds, this seemed to help me. It was some sort of twisted validation, of her admitting, yes, Im having a hard time too. It is not only you. Thats what it feels like anyway.

I realise this is a very obsessive and unhealthy situation but I hope i can use it to my advantage to feel some validation and to slowly start to get on with my life. Im sorry if it unvalidates my previous post that brought you to tears. Its just... .She and I have gone through so much the past four years and it was all so emotional that even a seemingly small thing like this has a big effect on me.

Now i must stay strong and Stay in NC. In some ways it erases some doubts and feelings I had that I wouldnt have gotten answers too if I bluntly asked them. If that makes sense.

It is better not to have any contact, at least I think. The former 2 breakups, I was the one that contacted or mailed him. And mostly I didn't get the reaction I wanted, mostly it was painfull. This time no mails or messages, and it is very hard. Because I still love him, or is it stupid to call it love? I was 6 years with him, and it is so hard not to see, touch or speak to him. Today I am feeling so depressed, I feel like crying. I had a dream about him, and in that dream we were back together. But then I woke up... .god such pain.

And I can turn to no one, because no one understand how I feel.

Is it stupid that I long for him to contact me?

Can anyone tell me, if this feeling goes away?

I want to enjoy life again.

Please be strong, I am trying to, maybe it helps if we have eachothers back

[Ayreana]

Well, it's officially her birthday now. I'm not going to contact her. So I'll just say it here.

Happy birthday, A.

For four years, we've celebrated our birthdays together. Last year, I got you a new Nintendo 3DS (that you've used close to three times), an ice skating show from Disney and a holiday to a vacation resort. The year before that, I bought you a weekend in our capital city, in a very expensive hotel where we made love and had fun. Nothing was too much for you, I loved spending money on you because when I got you presents, you got close to the idolizing state you were in when we first started hanging out. It brought me close to seeying you happy, like you used to be happy just to see me. Something that has long passed.

When it was your birthday, we made sure to stay up till midnight to not miss the beginning of it. Holding you in my arms, kissing you, making love with you, while you were just as (if not more) interested in the many congratiolations you got through facebook. And from your father, if he had time, from halfway across the world. A man you hated for leaving you, which you split black more times than I can count, but when he showed you affection the one or two times a year, he was whiter than white. I should have seen you treat all the important men in your life like that. Its how you treated me for four years.

I hope you are having a good time on your birthday right now, but I have the feeling you are not. Not internally, anyway. And the thing is, it really breaks my heart. I somehow still love you so much that it breaks my hearts to think about you not being happy. Why should I? You never really cared if I was happy. It was just an act. You needed me to need you. Well, I needed you.

But no more. I can't let myself need you anymore. I need to need me, myself, I need to find out who I am again and love the boy trapped in this man's body. As cheesy as it sounds, you brought out the flaws in me, and now that they are exposed, it is time to work on them and become a better person. I hope you can do the same, but I really doubt that.

If this sounds bitter, I'm sorry. It is not meant that way, but I just have a lot of opressed feelings in me. I've learned to hide them from the world, even from myself, for four years.

Here's to a better year, both for you and for me. But not for us together.

Stay strong and Do NOT contact her! Please for your own sake. You will end up getting hurt again, and deep down you know that. And you don't deserve that.

Your story sounds so familiar, my ex hated his brother because he was violated by him when he was younger, and now he is living there! I don't even know if that story was true, at first I believed him, but know... .

Today I have a very bad day as well, I dreamed we were back together and then I woke up, wow the pain... .indescribeble. So I got out of bed, and took my dog for a walk. But for some reason I keep thinking about him, and mis him.

Do you have friends or family to talk with?

Today I called my sister and pearents, but they do not really understand what I am going through.

Here there are people that understand the situation.

[CloseToFreedom]

I'm staying strong and I have not contacted her. Like I said earlier in this topic, she almost contacted me yesterday, she was typing something to me but then deleted it before she send it. When I saw that, I broke down in tears, tears of happiness and stress relieve. It told me: yes, she is coping with the difficulties as well, yes, she is having it hard as well. Her just typing to me without sending it was enough for me. It was her birthday, it was 3 am, she was probably lying in bed and what did she think of? Me, apparently. That takes some pressure of my shoulders I can tell you that.

Of course, today is a new challenge. She's probably celebrating her birthday with her family, and the cold realisation of what happened last night is coming to me. I mean, so what if she was typing? A) she didnt send anything and B) even if she did, so what? What's there to salvage? We were a disaster waiting to happen, in fact, disasters happened frequently. There's no way back anyway. She has her own appartment now, our families don't want us hanging out no more, she probably isnt even interested in getting back together but just had a weak moment. I need to stay strong and NOT have any weak moments myself. I need to work on myself.

Instead, this past month it felt like I was trapped inside her life, in her mind, living my life through her, through what she might be doing. I need to change the way my brain functions because I can't do this any longer. Not even a week. If I keep trapped inside her head, its not going to get better. I'm not going to get better that way.

[Inside]

Dutch --  Zneat   I’ve some Dutch in me, from my mother’s side, but I only do ‘this’ language.  I’ve a daughter in college who lives with me, she hopes to have just finished ‘her last’ writing class, I get to ‘edit’ her stuff…  I’ve used this forum as ‘an example,’ sometimes reading posts to her of just how accomplished young(er) people have become with their writing skills.  Always impressed (and gives me hope for mankind), when I find many are not writing in their native language, yet describing themselves so well - I’m doubly impressed.  I’d love to see some Dutch writing … and feel the world-wide participation on this site is beyond cool!

The best thing I’m getting from all I’ve read is just how well everyone is taking this.  It’s killer stuff… but you’re doing it!   You’re moving ahead, and helping others do the same.  One thing I’ve done lately is read the posts of BP’s themselves on a site devoted to them.  Only reading, mind you, it’s their place.  But as they’ll occasionally reference ‘this place,’ I assume it’s fair to read their stuff, too.  I can report that it’s a far different atmosphere…  Honestly, I’ve recovered more as of late from reading just how ... messed up they are than hanging around here.  Statements will occasionally ‘trigger’ me, but for the most part, it confirms beyond any doubt how unstable BPD is and the cold fact that what I was up against was insurmountable. 

Around here, totally different, in the best of ways.  Though we’re wounded, they’re terminal…  BPD appears to be such a blend of behaviors that it’s nearly impossible to look at any one and make sense of the rest.  Fromheeltoheal’s focus on their fear of abandonment gave an excellent perspective, but we’re soon tripped up again over the minutia... the little things they’ll toss out as excuses or reasons to throw us off the trail.  ... .don’t know where I’m going here ... .other than to encourage everyone to continue to grow.  Again, it feels as though I’m witnessing it happen on these pages.  You’re not just recovering, you’re figuring out something few will ever understand.  Though I could walk away from this board feeling as though I’ve reached a point of understanding and recovery that I no longer need it ... .I’m drawn back to help.  And reading an intro piece by ‘one of us’ in distress ... .I’m in. 

I believe some have asked if these painful feelings ever go away.  I doubt it, but, they do fade…  Seems our minds become as tired of rehashing this stuff as our friends and family do  ... .and we eventually move on.  The biggest difference I see between BPD’s and ‘Nons’ is what happens next.  For BP’s, their ‘next move’ has usually already happened, as they’ve instantly glommed onto someone pre-groomed to replace us.  For us, it’s a slow methodical process of recovery and growth.  That growth does not appear to happen among pwBPD, I don’t think it can.  Or, they don’t allow it, being too focused on replacing pain with pleasure to do the real work necessary to correct the behavior that led to the pain… 

During my 7 recycles, after each ‘dump,’ I’d begin looking for another mate (not in the ‘English’ sense of ‘friend’ but a significant other).  I came close, twice, but more so experienced new friends than having cultivated another lover.  My BPex wouldn’t hesitate though, or learn, and would instantly cultivate a romance.  She, or they don’t understand love.  Like children, it excites them, but they haven’t the capacity to understand it.  We do, and that seems to be where we end up, groping to learn from our mistakes - so as not repeat them. 

Vacation’s are great, but they’re not a permanent state of affairs.  To BP’s, they are - they’re on a permanent vacation, never willing to return to the job that both pays for and allows them to fully appreciate it.  We are the adults, no matter what the children may call us ... .so it appears to be our responsibility to ourselves to figure this out and move ahead with our lives ... .not backwards, or sideways

You’re all doing that, and helping me to do the same.  Eventually, the spinning slows, maybe even stops.  At that point, things clear as we get our bearings back.  Though I’ve no new romance, I’ve grown Inside … Turned on some music last night, and of course it was about love, but instead of inserting thoughts of my BP into it, I replaced her with another girl I’d loved - it worked!  Little tricks combined with some heavy slogging ... .and we’ll get there  

[CloseToFreedom]

I hear what you are saying Inside, but there's always this nagging doubt in the back of my head that I was the sick one, and she's the normal one. What if that's the case, and she'll turn out to be very happy in a new relationship? What then? The fear is always there in the back of my head. I wasn't the sweetest person either in this relationship. In the later parts, I was also very mean. I'd like to think she pushed me to that place, but who knows for sure.


So, we're past her birthday. Now new years eve to survive. Last night she didn't try to text me, but somehow I feel her looking at my screen every now and then. Maybe its my imagination, maybe its real, I dunno. I do know its getting harder to resist. Each day I miss her more. Or at least, I miss the person I wanted her to be more. I feel very depressed and my parents are getting tired of me being this way. its been a month now with no progress in sight. Hopefully next month that will happen.

[Inside]

CloseToFreedom,

They place ‘that doubt’ in us, it’s part of their constant defence, a ‘good offense being the best defence,’ or something like that…  Plus, we’re often targeted because we’re giving people, kind people, so we appear to be quicker than most to doubt ourselves. 

I also felt my BPex was making me mean, with her constant demeaning comments, her boundary busting provocative and antagonizing behavior.  It felt designed to keep me off balance, to mess me up to the point that she could point at me then say to others, ‘look how messed up he is - that’s why I can’t stand being around him!’  When in reality, not only was I being constantly tested, prodded and provoked … I’d become worn out repairing her many ‘life mistakes’ - only to watch her bolt off to make more!  It was like trying to raise a defiant child, no matter how much you love them, eventually their behavior’s going to break you … while they stand back pointing and laughing  

Eventually, we’re angry, or stern - but that’s not who we really are, so we’re not that good at it!  A ‘good temper’ is the ability to bend without snapping, though bent far enough or often enough - even the best steel snaps… 

As far as you missing out on a ‘recovered her’ ... .what would cause her to change to that degree, even if she could... ?  She hasn’t, has she?  So, if she’s not changed, after all the love you shared, then maybe she doesn't feel you’re worth it?  And if you feel she’d change for someone else, maybe he'd be worth her effort?  ... .You know better than that … she loved you, likely still does (to the limit of her ability), and she knows you love/ed her.  She couldn’t change, in fact, that’s likely the only thing she really understands.  If she could, she would have, years ago…  Not only is it damn near impossible for BP’s to change, they have to want it more than anything ... .but from ALL I’ve learned about this condition and their behavior, it’s far easier in their eyes to just move on than to sort out and confront what’s necessary to make a r/s work… 

I’ve often thought, what if my BPex was ‘normal?’  ... .and what wouldn’t I have given to make that happen … then quickly realize - she’d be happily married and I’d likely have never met her!  The only reason we met was due to the fact she’ll never ... and has never settled down with anyone.  She can’t.  She’d tried, and still is, I suspect…  But it never works ... .as she stops just-short of seeking and following up on the serious treatment she’d need to come close to a healthy lasting r/s…  She’s brilliant (intelligence wise) and beautiful (to me), but apparently forever flawed.  It breaks my heart, too :'(

Though you’ve more flatland than forest’s… I’m sure you’ve heard the description of ‘not seeing the forest for the trees’... .  I often notice that on the boards when it’s ‘just happened’ and they’re only a few weeks out of the r/s.  I’m a year gone, and that’s after a year of dwindling closeness…  With that perspective I no longer look to the next event or anniversary, they’ve begun to meld into one ... .one massively complex puzzle that’s nearly complete.  But without that picture having formed it’s extremely difficult for you to focus on anything but the next puzzle piece.  It’s like someone telling you they’ve already done it, and ‘this is what it looks like’ - so don’t waste your time finishing it!  ... .but you stay focused, obsessed, perhaps feeling as though you’ll end up with something entirely different... ?  I understand, and had done the same.  I had to figure this out on my own, as in: nobody else knows how I feel, they’re only describing their experiences - but this is me, and I must be different? 

Also, it seemed others were so angry, as if because nothing worked for them - they now wanted to kill my desire to pursue my love…  They must not have had the patients I did, or the depth of love, so I stubbornly forged ahead ... .though ‘ahead’ only got me further behind

It’s apparently part of the process…  But for me, advising you on the minutia while ignoring the larger picture seems a disservice.  ... .so if some of us appear to be ignoring the details, we’re not - believe me, we recognize them in vivid detail … it’s just that we’re now viewing them with the perspective necessary to, if not move on, at least move forward…

I feel very depressed and my parents are getting tired of me being this way. its been a month now with no progress in sight.

I remember that soo well, too…  Having wore out family and friends, the worst part being, those we feel closest to take the brunt.  So tell your parents it’s a compliment to your r/s with them that you allow them to see you this way!  Crap, it was dragging into work that nearly killed me… I’d be thinking of her right up to ‘badging myself in,’ to the first thing I’d think of two steps out the door - every day, for months…  The good thing was I worked with kids, and nothing brings you out of a funk like the unbridled enthusiasm of youth!  Funny though, the only ‘kid’ I worked with that never shown any improvement was my BPgf   … ‘high functioning,’ I’d say she’s forever twelve  

There’s no magic pill my friend (dammit)... .  but i have seen some excellent lists posted around as methods of healthy distraction while recovering.  Problem was, at the time I was too depressed copy or implement them … seemed like i just wanted or needed to wallow in sorrow, a kind of self-punishment for having allowed myself to fall for someone like her?  Hey - I could have had you at age 27, so yes, ‘you’re still young.’  Your parents no doubt hurt with you, so just as I have to keep my daughter in mind as I mope around because of this, let’s feel better ‘for them!’  Actually, that kinda works - we may deserve some punishment, at least to remind us never to make a BP mistake again, but those we’re closest to don’t deserve it ... .at least I don’t think they do... .

You’re asking the right questions and feeling what’s natural in this situation, so you’re on road to recovery, and the further you go, the smoother the pavement ~ Forward

[CloseToFreedom]

Wow, thanks for the words Inside, read them with tears welling up in my eyes.

It all feels so... .unfair. Its like she can go on with her life like nothing happened, she's probably dating right now as we speak, she'll probably have a fun new years eve. All the while I feel so stuck in my own mind. Its frustrating. And of course there's the part of kicking the habit, it really feels bad having NC for a month now, we're close to the longest we've ever been without contact in 4,5 years.

I realize part of what I am missing isn't her, but this illusion I created in my head to make this relationship work. This illusion of a caring, sweet woman that was there for me always, that was interested in me and wanted to share her life with me. It only was like that in the first couple of months. In truth, everything we talked about felt like a competition, like 'who wins?'. Everything could set her off, could turn into an argument. I'd get told what I did wrong, how bad of a boyfriend I was, how I never listened to her feelings. I'd want to hug her when she got home or when we went to bed, and she'd let me, but it always felt like that she felt it was a chore to do. I felt no love between us anymore, only my love for the person she once was to me.

I guess I'm mourning the death of that illusion. And the death of my identity, that feels non-existent right now. I've got some building up to do. Hopefully I'll soon feel ready to do that.

Thanks again.


Edit: oh and yeah, my parents are there for me unconditionally, I even tell them: tell me when you've heard enough about my pain, I will stop. But they keep listening and keep helping out, even though it seems it doesn't help. I keep going in circles with my thoughts and with the things I tell them. They can't understand I still love and miss her so much. But they are there, they call every day and often drop by, even inviting me to stay the night with them, although I rarely take that offer.

[Inside]

CloseToFreedom,

You’re welcome… I’m a one time ‘at home dad’ now looking at becoming a ‘home alone dad’ with an empty nest.  Like i mentioned, I’m not getting out much, so it’s satisfying to share my thoughts, feels worthwhile…

It all feels so... .unfair. Its like she can go on with her life like nothing happened, she's probably dating right now as we speak, she'll probably have a fun new years eve. All the while I feel so stuck in my own mind. Its frustrating.

PwBPD put on a convincing act in public, to disguise what’s really going on inside their heads.  I take no comfort in their suffering, but no matter how hardy they party, the party will soon be over ... .and their empty constant need will return.  It has bothered me that there always seems to be a fresh supply of ‘us’ out there, don’t know if I’d like to warn them, or kick them in the ass!  Mine did/ does her circulating amid the group I’ve mentioned … and though I’ve informed some key members of just what I experienced with her, as in BPD…  I really doubt that’s gonna slow down any guys who appreciate her act.  ... .that’s another I reason haven’t shown up much, she just flaunts it around them, they eat it up - and it makes me sick   

So I try to let it go, parties included.  The way I view it is me growing; but her not.  To alleviate her pain, she throws herself at the next guy, it’s their ‘MO’ or mode of operation … while ‘we’ look all pathotic, moping around licking our wounds and lamenting our perceived loss.  But that’s how we heal - and partially why they don’t.  Again, it’s like us being the grownups and them running off like children ... .as we take our medicine.

Another sad aspect to me (... .and I’m not trying to bring on tears... ) is ‘me’ out looking, or making myself available to other women ... .the whole time looking and feeling like a sad sack - pathetic!  Like what woman’s gonna find that attractive ... .cept maybe another Borderline   Yikes!  So it hasn’t felt fair to either potential mates or myself to release my new version until most of the bugs have been removed.  So I ruminate

Everything could set her off, could turn into an argument. I'd get told what I did wrong, how bad of a boyfriend I was, how I never listened to her feelings. I'd want to hug her when she got home or when we went to bed, and she'd let me, but it always felt like that she felt it was a chore to do. I felt no love between us anymore, only my love for the person she once was to me.

Dutch or English, you’ve captured it.  You are describing the identical feelings I’d had ... .and though that happens fairly often around here - it’s still hard to believe…  :)o continue to get it out of your system.  I always paid very close attention to her descriptions of prior affairs, especially ‘the husbands.’  My BPx often pressured for marriage, so I needed to figure out if ‘ours’ was going to be any different.  And though of course her version made these guys out to be A-holes and jerks ... .I began to wonder...  Because I’d often be accused of the same after having done nothing but attempt to please her.  I could so easily envision their love for her fading as their frustrations with what was left increased.  She blamed everyone but herself…

Their ability to draw us in while keeping us off balance and at a distance is uncanny, even fascinating.  Like a Black Widow Spider!  We ‘want it,’ and though it feels like they won’t let us ‘have it,’ the truth is - ‘it’s not there’ to begin with.  But the way we’re led to feel, it’s us, that we’re the reason it’s not working ... .and we accept that?

... .hope you don’t mind me rambling, this definitely feels therapeutic to me   In a relatively small town, her town, I only worked there, it became scary how often she’d point out some guy she’d once dated ... .giving me a brief description of how it went.  In a bar, walking past some guys house, at the local parade … not only did it give me the creeps, I eventually began to wonder what ability ‘they had’ that I lacked... ?  Why was it, after one date, these guys basically ‘abandoned her’ … yet I didn’t?  Of course I’d size them up, and each appeared totally normal.  So what was abnormal about me... ?  Why did I stick around for such punishing behavior... ?  I won’t speculate too far, in public ... .but that’s definitely haunted me.  

As mentioned, what about us?  Obviously we took most of the abuse our BP’s tossed, but why did we ignore it?  And, why do/ did we believe the failure of the r/s was any of our fault... ?  

Get this, in my most recent reading on ‘their site,’ the BP’s were all acknowledging how they’re most drawn to Narcissistic guys.  Though they seem to end up with ‘nice guys,’ they soon become disgusted and bored with (us) them, then angry at them for being so nice!  So they dump us and head toward a Narc!  

Are we just naive dweebs willing to kiss their toes while they take us for all we’re worth - then dump us like week old garbage?  Many describe seeking ‘unobtainable men,’ which I’ll assume include both married men (a prefered target of my BPx) or Narcissistic guys lacking the drive or desire to get all that close to them.  While we’re looked upon as weak and needy.  BP problems are extremely deep, but it appears that as a r/s grows and the couple get closer, pwBPD begin feeling engulfed or smothered, figure it’s too much, that we’re getting too close ... .and that we’re going to figure out what they’re ‘really like’ - then bolt!  With a ‘unobtainable guy,’ he’ll remain at a distance, often appearing not to really care, and it drives them mad …with desire!

Maybe what I'm getting at is ... .they’re just too messed up to salvage … and likely looking for a stable full of guys who could hardly care less.  And that’s not us.  Ironically, I’d say our ability to care is why we’re there!  ... .but ultimately they resent us - because we’re the only ‘kind’ of guys who’ll swallow their BS - and they come to resent us, assuming they’d be rejected by a ‘real man’ - a man that sees and treats them for what they are - F’d up!

... .so there we lie, in a puddle ... .whatever part of us that hasn’t been used up … having let down our defences, ignored every   and, in essence, brought this on ourselves?  Hey … I’m still learning too ... .were we that used?  Boy - this is complex

But I’m feelin something…  Are we just too nice?  I know you were beginning to feel mean around her, I had as well.  Is that what they want or need us to be -- so mean or angry that we see them for what & who they really are -- and if we don’t dump ... or abandoned them - they’ve found their true love?  A tuff guy who’ll tolerate them?  I mean this all sounds nuts -- but that’s what we’re dealing with, isn’t it... ?  ... .and I’m laughing...  Cray-Z!  ... .I’m gonna try to keep goin, if just for my own entertainment

Actually, those are the dynamics I’m reading straight from the source … often times with statements like, “WOW that’s EXACTLY how I FEEL!”  ... .that could be a direct quote!  But that’s them - now back to us.  Why are most of us around here walking BPD targets  What do we have stamped across our foreheads... ?  “I’m a weakling willing to accept any level of abuse in the name of love” -- ?  If so - WHY?  What the heck is our problem/s?  BPD’s apparently don’t respect us ... .do we fully respect ourselves... ?  Honestly, as ‘confident’ as I may come on right here it’s just as likely an indicator of how unconfident I actually feel ‘Inside’... .and hard to admit.  

I’ve not sought therapy, though have definitely considered it.  but I like to figure stuff out on my own, the hard way maybe.  Well, my ramblings above are ‘where I’m at’ with this stuff... . I could rarely get any answers from my BPex, everything came packaged with a twist.  So yeah, she’ll be out there shakin it for New Years, while I may be home alone, agan.  But one thing I’m sure of - I’m learning, in fact I’m doing both her and my homework (how appropriate, we’d likely have helped them cheat in school, too... ).  And as the skies clear, and the days get longer… I’m going to be a stronger person, if only for adversity.  She… she’ll still be twelve.  

Yes, this helps me too… I’ve only met one guy in real life who’d also experienced a BPD - we were like instant friends.  He’s Ron, and I’ve a standing invite at his place at the coast!  Everyone else is merely disgusted ... .whereas me and Ron could laugh, or cry for hours I'm sure.  ... .don’t know if there’s anyway to inoculate oneself from BPD’s - but we damnwell had better developed a strong immunity to it

[Ayreana]

Wow, thanks for the words Inside, read them with tears welling up in my eyes.

It all feels so... .unfair. Its like she can go on with her life like nothing happened, she's probably dating right now as we speak, she'll probably have a fun new years eve. All the while I feel so stuck in my own mind. Its frustrating. And of course there's the part of kicking the habit, it really feels bad having NC for a month now, we're close to the longest we've ever been without contact in 4,5 years.

I realize part of what I am missing isn't her, but this illusion I created in my head to make this relationship work. This illusion of a caring, sweet woman that was there for me always, that was interested in me and wanted to share her life with me. It only was like that in the first couple of months. In truth, everything we talked about felt like a competition, like 'who wins?'. Everything could set her off, could turn into an argument. I'd get told what I did wrong, how bad of a boyfriend I was, how I never listened to her feelings. I'd want to hug her when she got home or when we went to bed, and she'd let me, but it always felt like that she felt it was a chore to do. I felt no love between us anymore, only my love for the person she once was to me.

I guess I'm mourning the death of that illusion. And the death of my identity, that feels non-existent right now. I've got some building up to do. Hopefully I'll soon feel ready to do that.

Thanks again.


Edit: oh and yeah, my parents are there for me unconditionally, I even tell them: tell me when you've heard enough about my pain, I will stop. But they keep listening and keep helping out, even though it seems it doesn't help. I keep going in circles with my thoughts and with the things I tell them. They can't understand I still love and miss her so much. But they are there, they call every day and often drop by, even inviting me to stay the night with them, although I rarely take that offer.

I feel exactly the same way!

New Years eve, will be torture. Luckily my parents and sister are coming over, so I won't be alone. But, allthough I am surrounded by my family or friends, I still feel so alone.

It is unfair, that our exes are probably having "fun", but even you know that won't last very long. My ex had 2 relationships before me, and they never lasted that long, but with me, it was 6 years. With 3/4 breakups. (sorry lost count)

I am seeking help from my councelor, but she is on vacation for 2 weeks! Next week I have a new appointment, so I have to struggle through the week. I am on medication to help me sleep. I am proud of myself for seeking help, but on the other hand I think he should be the one that needs to look for help.

I have days, that I don't hear form my parents. Sometimes that is hard. Everyday I talk to my sister for a bit, and somehow I feel lag a nag to them.

Eventually we will get there, I know we will. We have to. I have a son to take care off, so I have no option.

You can allways send me a message if you want to talk dutch too

[CloseToFreedom]

What an insightful post, Inside. Please don't feel bothered by writing such long posts - they're therapeutic for me as well. It all helps. Believe me, my mind knows how it works, I know that she is the way she is and why she does the things she does, and I know why I enabled her. I was the perfect person for her to use - from the outside cool and social, but from the inside torn from my previous relationship, with an alcohol and drug habit to sport. She could resque me. I was constantly pulling and pushing, telling her I was not ready for her - or anyone - because I was still struggling with my feelings. The more unavailable I became, the more she wanted to 'get' me. It was like she was hunting for me, she wouldn't let up, until I finally let her in my heart, and it was too late by then. I started to really love her, and after the honeymoon phase she started to hate the things she used to love about me. By then I was so in love, that I kept doing everything in my power to keep us together. For four years. Until I couldn't bring the energy anymore, and we broke up over something stupid. Again and again.

But we always got back together eventually. Well, now its been a month I don't think think its going to happen again. Which is of course a good thing - only it feels so bad. I often though - when I was in the relationship, but especially when I was out of it - that we were meant for each other. Stupid magical thinking. But you start to think that if you get together again and again, and it feels so good. You start to think she is the One.

I dreamed about her last night again. We were on a holiday. These dreams hurt so bad.

I keep trying to get into her head, although that is impossible. I keep wondering if she's thinking about me too, if she's regretting these descisions and the choices we've made. She could have had it so good here, in this house, which would've cost her little money, with a guy who truly loved her. She could've been married in a few years, and could've gotten kids. She was so close. Of course, she's still young so she has all the time in the world.

I mean, I know she won't show the outside world how she feels, but I do wonder if she's feeling the pain inside of her. I've seen some recent pictures of her, with her trying to look all sweet an happy, but she has big black smears under her eyes and her eyes just look... .I dunno, dead to me. She's started to make a lot more selfies these days. Probably to get some supply, I dunno.

I do wonder Inside, if we're really healing by sitting at home, ruminating over our thoughts, while they are out there having fun. I mean, it feels so... .wrong to just sit here and let life pass by. I don't want it, but its the only thing I am able to do right now. I'm still just too weak to really get out there and live life, never mind the problem of being able to bump into her.

And I guess it hurt so bad because of through all the abuse - for me it was abuse anyway - they said such sweet things as well. Like that they loved us, that they cared for us, that they were proud of us, that they wanted to marry and have kids with us. If there was a new 'project' (when we bought the house, an upcoming holiday, something we had to buy) she would be a great person, happy, excited, kind to me. But when we were in the routine of things - the periods I loved just because you're able to just rest and live life normally - it seemed like she felt highly irritated, like she didn't want to be there at all.

I am slowly letting go of the fantasy that she is feeling the same thing as me though. Last night, it felt like I had let go. I thought to myself: she isn't staring at her telephone screen just like you, waiting for a message from you. She's living her sorry ass life and she's never coming back. Today, on a fresh new day, those fantasies do creep up on me again. Sometimes she is online on Whatsapp for an hour straight, just like me, and I can't help but wonder: is she doing and thinking and feeling the same? I need to stop this behaviour, because it isn't constructive in any way.


@Ayreana: very recognisable, and I saw your private message, to which i've responded. Thanks!

[CloseToFreedom]

By the way, so close to breaking NC again... .although I would not know what to say. There is nothing to say. I just want to know if she's feeling the same way, I guess.

[MrConfusedWithItAll]

By the way, so close to breaking NC again... .although I would not know what to say. There is nothing to say. I just want to know if she's feeling the same way, I guess.

If you are painted black then she will be busy with her life and you will be like yesterday's newspaper.  You will know when she is thinking about you when she makes contact with you.  Let it go my friend.  I fell for the bait one time post NC and it was like - hey why did I allow myself to fall for that bait and dump trick?  Four to five months now NC and I can feel my self esteem and mental stability returning.  Look after you.

[CloseToFreedom]

By the way, so close to breaking NC again... .although I would not know what to say. There is nothing to say. I just want to know if she's feeling the same way, I guess.

If you are painted black then she will be busy with her life and you will be like yesterday's newspaper.  You will know when she is thinking about you when she makes contact with you.  Let it go my friend.  I fell for the bait one time post NC and it was like - hey why did I allow myself to fall for that bait and dump trick?  Four to five months now NC and I can feel my self esteem and mental stability returning.  Look after you.

I know this. Each time we broke up and I was painted black, it was like I offended her by making contact. Its like they just cant handle it, so they act like you are their worst enemy.

Thing is, its been a month now and by now i usually am painted white again. But you are right, when that happens, they contact you, not the other way around. They only think about themselves.

If I contact her now, I give away all my progress, and make her feel better and more secure in the progress. I can't do it. Nope.