Narcissist

[CravingPeace]

So in an argument yesterday my wife who I suspect is BPD (and is in therapy), said she was annoyed I was not in therapy. I had been, but I am in the process of changing therapists so waiting on the list for a new one I found with super relevant skills. She said that I need to work on myself, like she does on herself. But I need to focus my work on my issues not my issues with her. For example she said she doesn't work on that fact I am a narcissist, she works on herself. I said what, you think I am a narcissist? She said I am not sure sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. I was pretty blown away. It was me that found her a therapist to deal with issues as she said she couldn't find one and needed help desperately as she couldn't cope anymore. Her issues stem from her mother who I think she accepts has NPD, the abuse she suffered, and the abandonment when her parents divorced and her dad left, and literally every problem since. She knows for example she falls out with people a lot , ghosts them and can't forgive ever and it causes her deep problems. So she is aware.

We both agreed we are in a really unhappy marriage, but we don't want to divorce yet. She said there was no point going to marriage therapy until we worked on ourselves. I kind of agreed, but I am just not sure what I should be working on. She said she had a list for me. Which I eventually asked for as I am at a loss on what I should be fixing. Sure I am not perfect and aI get snappy and stressed due to quite severe work pressure but I don't really know what her issues with me are other than I am messy and don't pick up after myself and the kids enough. The truth is although she doesn't get on with my parents, I have a very close relationship with them. Sure they were not perfect , but she has a bad relationship with her side, and then so many friends and work relationships I have watched her destroy. then ghost people. She accepts she does this. So I don't think I am far off on her potentially having BPD, especially when she loved bombed me at the start and then went cold and withheld sex for over a decade.

Anyway being labeled as a Narcissist really stung. I don't really know what about me she thinks makes me one. Maybe I should ask? But it was quite hurtful. I guess the fact I think she has BPD if I told her would hurt her...

Anyway I get really clear in my thoughts I am dealing with someone mentally unwell, but then she says something like that and I really start questioning myself. I know nobody on here can really say either way but looking for peoples thoughts?

Thank you

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[CC43]

Craving, I feel for you in dealing with a complicated relationship.  My immediate thought is that your wife could have BPD, given the pattern of volatile relationships you describe.

My experience with a family member with BPD is that she often projects her own insecurities onto others.  As a parallel, when your wife accuses you of being narcissistic, possibly she's the one who is narcissistic, and she's projecting that onto you.  Does that seem to fit in your situation?

In my case, the family member with BPD will frequently accuse others of treating her like a child.  In reality, she is preoccupied with being developmentally delayed--not meeting adult milestones--and she is ashamed about that.  Worse, she tends to interpret the world with that negative lens.  Given her BPD, she also has a habit of blaming others for her negative feelings and her own choices.  This will often manifest as a raging attack: "You treat me like a little girl! I can do whatever I want! You are condescending! You can't tell me what to do!"  This could easily evolve into something like your situation: "You're controlling! You're a mental case! You're the one who needs therapy, not me!" I think this sounds like projection.

[CravingPeace]

Craving, I feel for you in dealing with a complicated relationship.  My immediate thought is that your wife could have BPD, given the pattern of volatile relationships you describe.

My experience with a family member with BPD is that she often projects her own insecurities onto others.  As a parallel, when your wife accuses you of being narcissistic, possibly she's the one who is narcissistic, and she's projecting that onto you.  Does that seem to fit in your situation?

In my case, the family member with BPD will frequently accuse others of treating her like a child.  In reality, she is preoccupied with being developmentally delayed--not meeting adult milestones--and she is ashamed about that.  Worse, she tends to interpret the world with that negative lens.  Given her BPD, she also has a habit of blaming others for her negative feelings and her own choices.  This will often manifest as a raging attack: "You treat me like a little girl! I can do whatever I want! You are condescending! You can't tell me what to do!"  This could easily evolve into something like your situation: "You're controlling! You're a mental case! You're the one who needs therapy, not me!" I think this sounds like projection.

Wow thanks! OMG. She often tells me I treat her like a child or I mansplain!  She also tells me I am controlling, but she literally constantly sets me tasks then micromanages me about the smallest things! But she is in therapy so I have to give her credit there, any says she finds it really hard but trying to deal with her things.  How do I cope with this?

[CravingPeace]

Also I don't think she is a Narcasist . I know she is quite passive agressive and always the victim, and makes me feel bad about myself telling me I am selfish if I do self care things for myself . Or if i do 100 things she asks for, the 101 thing I missed she gets annoyed about. But not sure 100% if that is Narcasism or just abandonment stuff.

[CC43]

Craving, BPD is on a spectrum, and it can manifest in different ways.  In fact, the behavior and reactions could be considered reasonable in some situations.  The key distinction in my mind is whether the behavior is consistent and extreme enough that it impedes normal adult functioning.  A pattern of destroyed relationships and suicide attempts are hallmarks.  Regular self-destructing and self-sabotaging behaviors are also a sign.

After living with someone diagnosed with BPD, I've learned a few things.

First, there's no arguing with someone with BPD.  They are all turbocharged emotion, not logical.  Challenging them in an argument or pushing back tends to fuel the engine.  They not only feel threatened, they also feel misunderstood.  I find it's better to validate ("I see that this is really upsetting for you") and disengage.  After disengaging, the pwBPD will often put herself in a self-imposed "time out."  At least that's the way I've come to view these periods of distance and alienation.

Second, they feel they don't have agency; they are always the victim.  They blame others for their own pervasively negative feelings and problems.  That's where the outrageous accusations and projection can come into play.  It's very rare to get an apology, because they would have to take some responsibility, and that is both painful and impossible, because they cling to victimhood status like their life depended on it.

Third, they have a hair-trigger fight or flight response.  They have low tolerance for stress and disappointments.  They will suddenly quit school or work or a relationship, for seemingly small reasons.  They feel intense pain of disappointment and lash out, often seeming irrational; the anger is disproportionate.  Or they can try to "punish" you through flight (avoidance, silent treatment, cold shoulder).  Then they can go into a "time out" again.

I believe they direct their anger towards others in a botched attempt to convey their inner pain.  Misery doesn't love company; misery loves miserable company!  In fact, seeing that others are happy could trigger them, because they feel unhappy by comparison, and that can be a source of an angry outburst.  This often manifests as meltdowns at holidays.

Also, they tend to have extremely high expectations of others.  A common complaint is how others constantly mistreat them!  Everyone seems to get on their nerves--family, bosses, co-workers, service people, friends, etc., but most often and especially the immediate family.  It's almost as if cataloguing signs of mistreatment become an obsession for them.  In my opinion, this obsession is another signal of the lack of "agency" or "control" they feel they have in their own lives.  If there were grievance Olympic games, they would be gold medalists.

In summary, I tend to think of BPD behaviors as what happens to a person who faces adult-level challenges and responsibilities with the emotional skills of a child, combined with a pervasively negative attitude.  Therapy can help give them the tools to learn emotional regulation and break negative thought patterns.  But in my experience, it's a long road, with baby steps and some setbacks.

Maybe if you recognize some of these patterns, you'll understand the situation better and you won't feel like it's your fault.  All the best to you.

[kells76]

Hi CravingPeace;

I do get how easy it is to believe what a pwBPD tells us about ourselves. It's happened to me before -- after all, human beings are wired to believe what's communicated to us.

So in an argument yesterday my wife who I suspect is BPD (and is in therapy), said she was annoyed I was not in therapy. I had been, but I am in the process of changing therapists so waiting on the list for a new one I found with super relevant skills. She said that I need to work on myself, like she does on herself. But I need to focus my work on my issues not my issues with her. For example she said she doesn't work on that fact I am a narcissist, she works on herself.

That is her trying to work on you and blame you, without you working on her, and with "plausible deniability": "Hey, I'm just commenting about how I'm working on my (nonspecific) issues, and you should work on your narcissism".

You don't have to accept her framing or take this seriously. Or, if you want to investigate it, do so with your T.

I think we both know that she isn't saying: "Let's each work on ourselves, but it is OK if we tell each other concerns we have about each other, and it is OK for us to make guesses about what the other person's issues are".

It's not like it'd go over well to say "Babe, I totally agree we should work on ourselves. Here is my list of things I think are going on with you, and of course I am not working on those for you. Those are totally your issues for you to work on. I'm just saying..."

I said what, you think I am a narcissist? She said I am not sure sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. I was pretty blown away. It was me that found her a therapist to deal with issues as she said she couldn't find one and needed help desperately as she couldn't cope anymore. Her issues stem from her mother who I think she accepts has NPD, the abuse she suffered, and the abandonment when her parents divorced and her dad left, and literally every problem since. She knows for example she falls out with people a lot , ghosts them and can't forgive ever and it causes her deep problems. So she is aware.

I wouldn't keep giving the "am I a narcissist" statement airtime with her, either by trying to understand where she's coming from, or by denying it. It kind of sounds paranoid on her part, and engaging with paranoid statements doesn't make them go away and can add fuel to the fire. I don't see a benefit to improving your relationship with her, by trying to either "understand" her or to "explain" why you aren't one -- either approach just signals to her "there's something here". Maybe come up with a firm statement you can lean back on: "This sounds really important to you. Let's both get assessed, otherwise I don't have anything else to add." or "I hear that this is a big deal to you. If you really want to continue this conversation, I'll do it with a therapist there." IDK -- it's a tricky one. You know her best, so it is possible that maybe finding the feelings behind her words could be effective -- but I'd talk with a T first to see if the "don't give it airtime" or the "find the feelings behind the words" approach would be better.

We both agreed we are in a really unhappy marriage, but we don't want to divorce yet. She said there was no point going to marriage therapy until we worked on ourselves. I kind of agreed, but I am just not sure what I should be working on. She said she had a list for me. Which I eventually asked for as I am at a loss on what I should be fixing. Sure I am not perfect and aI get snappy and stressed due to quite severe work pressure but I don't really know what her issues with me are other than I am messy and don't pick up after myself and the kids enough. The truth is although she doesn't get on with my parents, I have a very close relationship with them. Sure they were not perfect , but she has a bad relationship with her side, and then so many friends and work relationships I have watched her destroy. then ghost people. She accepts she does this. So I don't think I am far off on her potentially having BPD, especially when she loved bombed me at the start and then went cold and withheld sex for over a decade.

This is sounding a lot like "rules for you but not for me". Honest question, is she open to you giving her a list of what she should work on? Can we get you guys on more even footing?

You do have stuff to work on -- we all do -- but likely your therapist will have a more objective view of that than your W.

That being said, one approach is to bring that list to your T and say, this is what my W thinks I should work on, and I need some help understanding which concerns are valid and grounded in reality, and which ones aren't.

Maybe that's your "thing to work on": building trust in yourself to see how things really are, regardless of what your W asserts. That kind of strength and sense of self can be very helpful in staying in a relationship with a pwBPD -- and I hear you that you and your W would like things to be better.

Anyway being labeled as a Narcissist really stung. I don't really know what about me she thinks makes me one. Maybe I should ask? But it was quite hurtful. I guess the fact I think she has BPD if I told her would hurt her...

Anyway I get really clear in my thoughts I am dealing with someone mentally unwell, but then she says something like that and I really start questioning myself. I know nobody on here can really say either way but looking for peoples thoughts?

Asking why she thinks you're a narcissist is giving substance to her assertion that it doesn't merit. Again, I'm leaning towards letting that blow over as much as possible, vs engaging it "for clarity". It's a rabbit trail to distract from the real work that needs to be done in the marriage. If she can get you distracted by "am I, am I not, should I bring it up", then the harder and more painful work isn't getting done.

Any of that sound on target?

[HurtAndTired]

This is a weird example of synchronicity! I was just getting ready to write a post about being accused of being a narcissist by my uBPD wife and here this post was!

I have been placing boundaries in the past few months after reaching a breaking point with her behavior and reading the book "Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get On with Life" by Margalis Fjelstad and my wife hasn't known what to make of the change in my behavior. Whereas for 11 years I used to cave and justify, argue, defend, explain (JADE) myself against false accusations, meekly absorbed physical, verbal, emotional, and even sexual abuse, and grovel and apologize for things that were either greatly exaggerated or I didn't even do to end the silent treatment, I now no longer respond in those enabling ways. I called the police for the first time on her when she got physical with me back in September and endured the following several weeks of silent treatment as she went through an extinction burst. I have lately been working on not JADEing and removing myself and our 2-year-old son from the situation when she becomes verbally abusive.

All of this has her very off-kilter. What used to work to control me no longer does. She doesn't know what to make of the shift in my behavior and must be trying to figure it out. Here's what led up to the NPD accusation:

Our son has been sick this past week and she stayed home with him on Wednesday and Thursday. She works at a factory job and has a rotating work schedule so she was off those days already, and I am a teacher and have a regular work schedule. She went back to work on Friday and I stayed home from work on Friday to take care of him that day and over the weekend while she worked. He has a viral respiratory infection which caused a secondary ear infection and a secondary pink eye infection.

Basically, I have had to hold a toddler down and give him ear and eye drops for the past three days and he doesn't understand why. When responding to her texts about his condition several times this weekend I said how it was heartbreaking that he was crying out for help from Mama, Grandma, and Grandpa because Daddy was being mean while I was giving him the medicine. He didn't understand that the ear and eye drops were to help him, he just thought I was hurting him. Just remembering it hurts me. She returned my texts saying things like "stop complaining" and "you wanted a kid, this is what you get" which struck me as being really mean. I wasn't complaining, just expressing how much it hurt my heart to cause our son distress, no matter how necessary it was. I guess I was looking for a modicum of sympathy...silly me.

All of this culminated in her coming home from work last night after a bad day. I had prepared dinner and cleaned the house. I had even put up Christmas decorations and gone to the store, all while making sure that our son was medicated and as comfortable as possible. I could tell that she was dysregulated by the look in her eyes when she walked in the door and knew that it was going to be a tough night. We ended up going to bed early and she started to criticize me about my bedtime routine (I have multiple medications for chronic endocrine issues that I have been on for years). In the past, I would have tried to explain why I had to take this or that for the millionth time, but this time I just told her that I was following the orders of my endocrinologist and I wasn't going to discuss it further. That made her really angry.

While I ignored her, she scrolled through her phone frantically looking up things to argue why I didn't need to take my medication and would call them out to me as she found something. I just continued to ignore her and watch the TV show we had been watching. When she could see that I wasn't going to engage in an argument with her, she started in on how selfish I had been and how I couldn't stop complaining about taking care of our son. After 5ish minutes of telling me what a terrible father I am, she said "but I guess that's because you're a narcissist. Do you even know what that means?"

I was gobsmacked. I have an MA and am a member of Mensa. Of course, I know what a narcissist is. I know as I am typing this that this sounds ironically narcissistic, but I do so just to point out how strange it is that she would say this. It is not characteristic of her. I am a high school ESL teacher so I am constantly on the lookout for when my students plagiarize. When I read an essay I can easily detect when something has been copied and pasted or, lately, AI-generated vs. hearing my student's authentic voice. My wife is very intelligent but is not educated. She immigrated from rural Mexico when she was 14 and got married right out of high school. She was a hard-working single mom when I met her and her grit and determination were part of what drew me to her. My teacher's senses were tingling when she called me a narcissist last night and I immediately knew that a) she had just learned this term herself and b), since she pronounced it correctly, she must have heard it spoken by someone rather than just read it online.

I wonder if the change in my behavior relative to placing and enforcing boundaries to end her abusive behavior towards me has caused her to try to figure out what's "wrong with me?" To her, my no longer expectedly responding to her must be very upsetting and mysterious. Because pwBPD are always in the victim role in their minds (Karpman drama triangle) I must seem to be disordered because I am no longer accepting either the rescuer or persecutor roles. Since I can't be a victim (that would take her out of that role and place her into the persecutor role) but I am not in either of the two other optional positions within the drama triangle (having stepped out of it altogether) then there must be something terribly wrong with me.

Have you recently changed your behavior toward your wife? Are you no longer engaging in BPD drama? I wonder if, due to projection, pwBPD who are trying to figure out why a partner is suddenly placing and enforcing healthy boundaries don't look up their own symptoms on Google and land on either BPD or NPD because there is so much overlap between the two PDs? I'm definitely curious about this and plan to bring it up with my therapist at our next session on Thursday. Does anyone else have any experience with BPD/NPD accusations due to projection?

[CravingPeace]

Have you recently changed your behavior toward your wife? Are you no longer engaging in BPD drama? I wonder if, due to projection, pwBPD who are trying to figure out why a partner is suddenly placing and enforcing healthy boundaries don't look up their own symptoms on Google and land on either BPD or NPD because there is so much overlap between the two PDs?

Thanks all 3 of you some really insightful stuff here. I will answer this one thing for now, because yes recently I have not been engaging in the "talks" she asks for to "resolve things". As all they are are accusations, me being told I don't do enough, or I do the wrong thing, or I have this problem etc etc etc. And it goes round in circles until I accept blame. But I am not playing that role anymore. If I am to blame for something I own it, if not I refuse to engage. I say things like I get you are upset but what you are saying is not true and state a fact. Or we have different opinions and that is ok. It makes her really angry, she accuses me of avoiding discussing hard things, or thinking my views are right and then just dropping it. But I am not saying my views are right I am just saying I don't agree with her view, and we can have different views. To her me not agreeing with her means I am saying she is wrong and she can't stand it. Particularly on text I have absolutely refused to answer her essays full of projection, and insults and blame. I used to try and answer 20 odd points from one of her texts and explain why it wasn't right, but it just escalated and never solved anything. I used to eventually take it all to heart and feel awful and own everything she was saying whether it was true or not, she made me believe it was by wearing me down, I would take the blame and then she would immediately seem happier and lighter whereas I felt crushed and empty. Yes I do feel sad she feels that upset, and she thinks it is all down to me. But it isn't I know that now. She tells me I am cold and unemotional as I wont engage in it. But honestly over a decade of damage I don't feel I have much more to offer her emotionally. I just feel numb to her. When she goes on about how sad and lonely and miserable she is and it's my fault, it nearly sucks me back in pandering after her and trying to not be cold and selfish as she is saying I am. But its a trap. She says I am something bad to make me do what she wants. That is very controlling and that is truely what is selfish.

We are trying to sell the house, and she has so much stuff it is impossible. I asked her how I could help. She said take the 3 kids out so she could get through it as its her stuff, you can't walk in our large basement for boxes, decorations, shelves of stuff . So I took them out. While I was out she text me about how desperate and alone she was, and it was unfair, and I didn't love her and is there any hope for us, and she is sick of living in a house of hoarders. When it is her who has accepted she has an issue with stuff and accumulating it. (So another clear example of projection.) She wont let me touch it, clear it out, sure if I stand there she will give me orders on what I can and can't do, but I dont want to do that as its awful and she gets angry and soon enough she has a go at me. So I am abused that way, but also in that she has bought all these things with money I have worked hard to earn. So double abuse.

Honestly I think we are pretty much done I can't see the relationship ever working now I can see through all these things and BPD makes so much sense based on her past and how she acts, and it wasn't me that caused all her issues as they were there when I met her. When I think the relationship was probably over when she completely withheld sex over a decade ago. She now says that is my fault, but it really wasn't. She knows she has issues but she flips between blaming me and blaming herself. She goes from extreme from one to the other.

My issue is with a 3 month old, and finances is how to reasonably do the D with the minimum trauma. Thats what keeps me up at night. Had a great day with the kids just me and them today. I love spending time with them. I don't want to hurt them. But I don't want to spend another 20 years in a marriage which really is not a marriage and hasn't been for the longest time.

[CravingPeace]

So today a big argument! I am really struggling. She was really upset yesterday sent me multiple long texts when I was with the children, "she was having  a break down", "she was alone", "she was depressed". Accused me of black and white thinking, I think it's always someones fault or not, she lives in a hoarder house, I always need to blame someone. All I said is I didn't want to engage via text and it escalated to all that. I said we can speak when I get home. To which she told me to forget it she didn't want to discuss, it was a moment of weakness she should not have tried to talk with me as I am not there for her and I am not emotionally sensitive....

So anyway I got home with the kids, I said hello but didn't bring it up as she said not to.

Today big argument in which she told me I was so cold I didn't try and help her when I got in, and did I have no love for her, she was melting down and I did nothing to help. She neede dme and I wasn't there for her. She said she always helps me when I am upset etc why couldn't I. I explained sending me loads of texts when I am with the kids is not melting down in front of me. If you are upset talk to me in person, and of course I am here for you albeit our relationship is extremely strained. Anyway the argument progressed and I admit I got sucked in and tried to defend and explain, obviously made it worse. At one point she screamed at me to get out, so I went to leave, then she screamed at me for leaving rather than sorting it out. I pointed out how unfair this was to order me out and then tell me off for going to leave and she lost it so I walked away at which point she screamed abuse at me swearing and calling me a not very nice work beginning with C.

5 minutes later she did apologise for calling me that but I honestly don't know what to do. I text her when I got to work late that it wasn't ok to speak to me, we have different opinions and its emotional but abuse is not ok. She needs to discuss this with her T. Our whole relationship she has told me I am unemotional and don't listen and support her. Even after writing the above and the behaviour I still question whether maybe there is some truth there. I am pretty emotionally stable, but not hugely touchy feely I guess. but I do have empathy! At least I hope I do. I am the sort of person my friends come to with problems etc, and trust me to tell them things they don't want to tell others. That suggests I have empathy right? If I point that out to my wife she will just say I have empathy for others just not for her.

I get so confused. She described her relationship with me to her T , her T told her to leave apparently and asked why she was still with me if I am as bad as she says I am and that T thinks I am a Narcissist. My wife says she doesn't think I am (now) although she suggested it last week. But my wife says she doesn't want to get divorced. Then my wife starts saying we should separate and I should move out to give each other space. I said I wouldn't as it would effect child custody, she then said she would sign paperwork to say 50:50 and she would never stop me seeing the kids. So later I said fine I will speak to an attorney and get the paperwork I am so done in with this. She then got angry that I would do that... Honestly around and around we go.

Then she is upset she is all alone in the world, I would be fine with family and friends but she doesn't have anyone as doesn't get on with her family and doesn't have many friends etc etc. Crying about how hard divorce would be on her and how she wouldn't get to speak to me, and she knows how bad divorce is from her parents etc etc. At one point I suggested she had potentially some borderline issues, she said her therapist just says she is codependent. But really do codependents really have this many issues with friendships, family and their partner? I am thinking maybe her therapist has bought into all the sad stories, and the victim stuff and is not really seeing what is going on? I thought her therapist would be good as said she was a specialist in NPD etc, it turns out the T has been divorced twice from NPDs and went into therapy also to try and fix herself!

I keep thinking Divorce would be best but then I get reeled back in and start doubting myself. I just am completely lost.

[once removed]

do codependents really have this many issues with friendships, family and their partner?

if you look at the traits of bpd vs codependency, they can look very similar.

Symptoms of Codependency

Daniel Harkness, Ph.D., LCSW, professor at Boise State University says that some of the most commonly cited symptoms of codependency are:

    intense and unstable interpersonal relationships,
    inability to tolerate being alone, accompanied by frantic efforts to avoid being alone,
    chronic feelings of boredom and emptiness,
    subordinating one's own needs to those of the person with whom one is involved,
    overwhelming desire for acceptance and affection,
    external referencing,
    dishonesty and denial, and
    low self-worth.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/codependency-codependent-relationships

I am pretty emotionally stable, but not hugely touchy feely I guess. but I do have empathy! At least I hope I do. I am the sort of person my friends come to with problems etc, and trust me to tell them things they don't want to tell others. That suggests I have empathy right? If I point that out to my wife she will just say I have empathy for others just not for her.

"he/she has empathy for others, but not for me" is something members report here frequently, about their bpd partners.

to some extent, its true in most close relationships. they are higher stakes. there is stress. a lot that goes into the bond that doesnt with someone less close.

i point these things out to suggest that at the end of the day, the two of you arguing over who is a narcissist, a borderline, a codependent, is not likely to help you resolve the conflict; its a power struggle between the two of you over who is at greater fault.

knowledge of her personality style can help you a lot when it comes to understanding her, and managing the relationship. there is a lot there that is pretty bpdish; the woe is me, you werent there for me, needy style, is bpd flavored. at the same time, personality disorders are on a spectrum. she doesnt have to be clinically disordered to have a predominantly bpd personality style.

if you use it to dismiss her viewpoint though, youre going to find the conflict become more and more protracted.

because at the end of the day, the ability to maintain a relationship is about how the two people resolve conflict. conflict cant be resolved when both parties are fighting about who is more at fault; that will never be solved.

Anyway the argument progressed and I admit I got sucked in and tried to defend and explain, obviously made it worse.

the point of "dont JADE" is not that its never appropriate to ever defend or explain yourself.

its that reflexively doing so is usually shutting someone down. people with bpd traits are especially sensitive to this. it is easier than average, to make someone with bpd traits feel unheard or invalidated.

she told me I was so cold I didn't try and help her when I got in, and did I have no love for her, she was melting down and I did nothing to help. She neede dme and I wasn't there for her. She said she always helps me when I am upset etc why couldn't I. I explained sending me loads of texts when I am with the kids is not melting down in front of me.

if i could boil loving someone with bpd traits down to one trick, it would be to develop the ability to read between the lines. people with bpd traits exaggerate. everything is over the top. but those emotions are coming from a real place. when you learn to see through the smoke screen, to the underlying emotion that theyre communicating, it can get easier.

in this case, your reflex was to tell her why her perception was wrong (defend yourself).

what might have happened, just for example, if youd listened, and given her a big hug?

thats just one example; im sure there are lots of cases where that might not be welcome at all, and you have to consider the unique context of your relationship.

but when youre met with a barrage like that, sometimes just listening and making a person feel heard goes a long way, and youll find its far easier than arguing with.

[CravingPeace]

So we had an agreement one gets to share a feeling the other processes it and doesnt respond and responds end of day. Today I shared something that upset me she kept interupting even thoigh I reminded her we agreed one listens and responds later. She then acxused me of not listening and black and white thinking which made no sense in the context.  I feel her therapist (twoce divorced from npds) is fillong her with loads of npd stuff projected at me and buying in to all my wifes victim stories can the therapist not see my wife has problems with everyone not just me and maybe my wife could be the class b type? How do i handle I am really trying as ultimately dont want a divorce. Should I just givr up sharing frustrations and talking throigh things with ny wife? Shoukd i just accept that i will never be apologised to and she will never accept blame? She gets so disregulated and completely makes up what she has said previously. How do I live like this! Its so unbalanced and unfair.

[once removed]

So we had an agreement one gets to share a feeling the other processes it and doesnt respond and responds end of day.
...
she kept interupting even thoigh I reminded her we agreed one listens and responds later.

the problems in your relationship did not begin overnight. they are significant, and they have existed, and built upon themselves, for a long time.

as much as i know you want to see a radical change happen, a very different looking relationship than the one you have right now, is not going to happen over night either. it takes a lot of effort to repair a relationship; think of this as rebuilding one altogether.

the two of you have a deeply ingrained style of conflict. it is evident in how you describe, well, your conflict. thats hard to change. its harder to change when a relationship has broken down like this.

and certainly, bpd makes it harder. its not very surprising that she didnt keep to the agreement the first time (its not necessarily surprising for anyone; youre trying something new). the hard part about loving someone with bpd is that we are generally stronger in that regard. that isnt to say that it isnt something that wont work in the long term, or that you shouldnt keep trying; it is to suggest that youre trying to turn a ship here.

it is also to suggest that changing your conflict style is going to require a lot of trial and error. the person you love has spent her entire life reacting from a defensive place; the more defensive you are in response, the more defensive she will be, and the further apart you both end up.

it only takes three minutes to learn to begin to change the way the two of you handle conflict together. https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict

[CravingPeace]

Thanks once removed very helpful. Actually after i posted we had another long conversation and both apologised and accepted this is going to take a lot of work but we both are committed to try.