From black NC to what the... ?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Just curious, anyone go from being painted blacker than black and saying I'll never hear from ex again to being contacted by that same ex? My T is adamant about me preparing for this day. I said nah we'll never talk again and I'm not breaking NC. T got mad and said you'll hear from her at some point and need to protect yourself now! T is actually worried and said "this is serious".  Anyone got any stories of ex going from dont call me I hate you and running away for 90 plus days and returning? Seems unlikely to me. I'm painted real black and have trouble seeing it. However, there is a thin line between love and hate. I'm not wanting recycle, but found my story to T telling her how black I was and she still saying get ready now very interesting. Any stories, tips, prediction's welcome. I'm 90 days in and coming along fairly well I think.

[Robbz]

Just curious, anyone go from being painted blacker than black and saying I'll never hear from ex again to being contacted by that same ex? My T is adamant about me preparing for this day. I said nah we'll never talk again and I'm not breaking NC. T got mad and said you'll hear from her at some point and need to protect yourself now! T is actually worried and said "this is serious".  Anyone got any stories of ex going from dont call me I hate you and running away for 90 plus days and returning? Seems unlikely to me. I'm painted real black and have trouble seeing it. However, there is a thin line between love and hate. I'm not wanting recycle, but found my story to T telling her how black I was and she still saying get ready now very interesting. Any stories, tips, prediction's welcome. I'm 90 days in and coming along fairly well I think.

[Lady31]

OHHHH YES!

This has happened to me with my BPDH I can't tell you how many times.  It happened before we got married, although at that time I didn't know what it was.  I chalked all his behavior up to him needing more time after his divorce. (Which was his explaination for his bad behavior.  And of course, he made his exwife out to be this horrible person who treated HIM badly.)

Since we have been married (ONLY 4 years) I can't tell you the number of times he has wanted a divorce.  And I mean adamant - extreme - I don't love you anymore, I think we made a mistake getting married/I should have never married you, I can't stand you, I wish you would just let me go, I hate you, I can't wait to get out of this - I hate being stuck with you ... .  while spending literally all his time after work out in man cave away from me and not speaking to me. (FOR MONTHS)

He has painted me white in the past before actually following through with a divorce so the cycle just started over and over.  We have a unique situation with a business together.  He has not been able to just walk out the door bc of this.  Soo, during all the HORRIBLE BLACK phases, he has made it full cycle back to white bc of all the time/work it would take to actually split.

This is VERY common, and is the pattern my marriage has followed over and over.

[GreenMango]

Robbz like Lady31 I went through this cycle for 5 years.  The last time was 6 months only to have him resurface and ask to try it again three times with little acknowledgement of previous 5 years and then threaten me with all manner of ridiculousness.

It can and does happen sometimes.  But your therapist's advice is wise because it sounds like she's telling you to get your bearings.  I allowed myself to try it again so many times I lost count of the recycles and push/pull cycles.  It took the last one and asking myself the hard questions.

I'm a believer that until you ask yourself these hard questions and come to accept the reality of the other person, as is, not what you would like or need can you fully get to the point of saying enough is enough or to the point of sure let's do this.  Each is a personal decision, but going into it fully aware of what you need, your principles, what you can reasonably give, desires for life and future, values in a relationship, etc in comparison to what this person offers can really help to make a solid decision and to stand behind it.  Not that it doesn't hurt... .  because it does.  Sometimes making the right decision for you not going to feel great at the time.

It was only when I did this that I was able to say no more.  It's not you, it's me.  I need something different.  Maybe this is what your therapist is encouraging you to do, to look within and set your standard.

People don't get recycled, we participate in it 50%.  Preparing yourself emotionally to not fall trap and to employ a different decision making process from the one that got you into this relationship will help to not recycle.

Have you asked yourself the hard questions?

[nowwhatz]

robbz

that has happened to me several times over the last two years. i have even had threats of restraining orders do not contacts etc.   i am always amazed that she comes back to me and more amazed i take her back. sounds like u r doing pretty good!

i am 100 percent mine will try again. probably soon. well keep up the good work!

[Robbz]

Greenmango, yes I have. I think I'm in the clear on the being firm and asking the hard questions. I guess at this point I just am bewildered at the way this has all played out. To be loved completely then dumped and she acts like I am a big scary monster. When I ran into her she cried, raged, then hugged me goodbye. I sat there the entire time with my mouth wide open speechless in shock catching flies. It is amazing spectacle to be honest. She hadn't seen me in almost 58 days and it was as if our conversation happened the day we broke up. If you are the dumper and want to be left alone why are you still this upset? Why are you crying? Why are you raging? Why didn't she just walk away?

[GreenMango]

I sat there the entire time with my mouth wide open speechless in shock catching flies. It is amazing spectacle to be honest.

You and me both my friend... .  you can't make this stuff up.

She hadn't seen me in almost 58 days and it was as if our conversation happened the day we broke up. If you are the dumper and want to be left alone why are you still this upset? Why are you crying? Why are you raging? Why didn't she just walk away?

Mental Illness is an alternate reality.  It's funny like that... .  not funny in a ha ha way but very, very different.  It often isn't the obvious insanity or psychotic behavior you might see in on the street corner with the "typical" people struggling with debilitating mental illness.  It can be in the everyday thinking, the cascade effect of emotions that effect behavior, the irrationality, the little sense... .  and wait for it... .  it can look like any other seemingly common person.

I try to tell people about the 10 beliefs that can keep you stuck (its in the leaving board lessons) and in particular the belief "they feel the same way you feel"... .  they don't.  I don't know if I could describe the bursts of distorted thinking, the disproportionate reaction to feelings, and the behaviors that follow suit, but I believe if you think back at your relationship you probably could recall some lucid moments where you saw this is full force... .  like that last conversation, especially since you've had some time to reflect on the relationship.

 

[Robbz]

Greenmango, we think very similarly, but if true mental illness they still lie. So to lie you know they're there enough to know to lie. I read somewhere they still no when to grab a jacket on a cold day. I'll be honest and I know I'm in the earlier stages of healing, but mental illness or not I have trouble feeling sorry for a liar. Like you said what sux is these actions don't look very different from what is deemed normal these days. But I think once you've seen it and it being that distict moment in time it hits you and you realize oh crap this really is what I was thinking it might be. That "it" moment for me came when she raged, voiced changed to pretty much another person, threw a bottle at me, cussed at me, stripped her clothes off and fling herself on the floor crying. Yeah I was scared ~eless. I think after that moment she knew she showed me her deck of cards and she knew I was smart and catching on quick. There was no taking that moment back and no way to casually explain it away. Dang that makes me cringe just typing that out.

[LuckyEscapee]

It will happen.

It only just happened to me. I started to be convinced it wouldn't, I even got my hopes up. Perhaps he wasn't BPD? I had heard he was supposedly happy in his new town, engaged etc. He had no reason to bother with me. Perhaps I had won the exBPD lotto?

Nope wrong, back he came, but thankfully this forums advice held me strong. Prepare yourself, but don't spend too much time dwelling on it, because when it happens, and it will, we'll all be here for you.

[Diana82]

Robbz>

Why was your T angry?

I was cut off completely by my ex 5.5 months ago. She changed her number and wouldn't even reply about returning my stuff...

But I saw my ex cut off many ppl when we were together and those ppl were cut off for good...

Not all BPDs recycle

[Robbz]

Lucky, I got to ask how long were you two NC and when ex came back did it go down like you thought it would go down? Was it hard to see or disguised? Was holding strong easier or harder than you imagined beforehand? We're you painted black and NC before he magically appeared? Would love to hear details.

[Robbz]

T was mad bc she was alarmed and concerned of the possible various causes of ex's behavior and heck I got so used to the madness I don't think I was really seeing just how jacked up some of this stuff really was. Some of the stuff i thought as small red flags she was like uh no that is a big deal! T is well studied in BPD, cluster, etc and basically said based on history, specifics, symptoms, etc etc i better prepare. Are you seeing T yet? If not, I highly recommend it. It felt good to talk to an expert in this field and see what is really going on. Funny, T's eyes were big the whole time and I think she might have had to call it a day after our session. Even funnier, I didn't even cover the tip of the ice berg on what I witnessed. I just hit the major stuff. Again, I say funny dont really mean that, but at this point if you don't laugh you would cry. I have noticed I say stuff to T and I am all nonchalant and I look across and see shock in the other person's face. I think that says a lot of how conditioned to madness we become. The more I detach the more I am seeing reality of just how crazy some if the behaviors actually were. I was being manipulated in so many ways and didnt even see it. Ex. I never knew being hung up on and ignored was a way if control. Yep I was conditioned and controlled without even realizing it! I had never experienced behavior such as this and just though wow she is sensitive and I did do x or y to anger her. Never again is all I can say!

[LuckyEscapee]

Robbz>

I was painted the blacked of black I can assure youu, i was a wreck and scared stupid where it would all lead. Then he left town, declaring his neverending love before he left with his new gf who was his recycled ex (go figure?)

The last time after 4 previous recontacts, which end each time with him saying his final goodbyes and see you in another life, etc etc... .  was four months clear NC. This period was the longest NC experienced and covered his birthday, Christmas, New Year. I had stealed myself for all those, but nothing, then out of the blue he texts on my changed number, which means he worked hard to get to me. I freaked, but it was easy to see, he had no reason to contact me. I had asked him not to, we had agreed NC, he gve me his 'word', but nope just when I thought the corner had been turns, back he came. Wanting to chat!

I broke NC back but was polite, but importantly i didn't 'feed' his need for info, and interest. I simply returned his escalating texts with a 'thanks but this messes me up, so please no more'.

Then I changed my cell number again. He may get it again somehow, but I want to avoid his instant access to me as i know he trigger texts if stimulated by a fleeting thought.

The only reason I broke NC my side was, he is less harassing if I am sad/boring than happy/interesting. He gets no 'feel good' so he moves on. I hope this final final goodbye, 'see you in another life' was indeed his last one. Except i pretty much know it wont be, but whatever he thinks i can provide to him, he won't get from me, and will seek elsewhere, probably with multiple people.

What he doesn't know is that I am happier than ever

[must move on]

Ten years down the line after our first break up I got back with my exBPD. We had been each others first love.  I over the years had put the intense love/ make up break up and the final cutting me off as a childish thing, exBPD told me when trying to rekindle things "our feeelings were just to intense for our young minds to handle"! I look back now with a wise mind and I realize I was just experiencing all the classic things people with BPD do.

To make it worse when my exBPD came back into my life, ex already had the knowledge for many years that BPD was the underlying problem but never told me.

This creeps me out, with that knowledge ex knew what was going all along. I was in the Dark.



So yes they do recycle my ex pretty much made out that during those ten years apart "you were always my angel, I thought of you every night" blah blah!

When my exbPD got it in contact it was always ]casual, so be warned. What I have learned is they will wait for a moment when you are off guard and pounce.

Your T is right you should mentally prepare yourself and in doing that you will figure out what is happening for you... this will give you some strength to figure out if you want to be involved in being recycled or not.

[FindingMe2011]

  Just curious, anyone go from being painted blacker than black and saying I'll never hear from ex again to being contacted by that same ex? My T is adamant about me preparing for this day. I said nah we'll never talk again and I'm not breaking NC. T got mad and said you'll hear from her at some point and need to protect yourself now! T is actually worried and said "this is serious". 

Expect the unexpected, this way when it does happen,or if, this will not be a surprise. If NC, is a boundary you can uphold, then you are protected. Her "off" behavior should show you, that she is capable of a wide variety of things... .  T sounds like she is educated, in the world of PDs, this is a good thing. Just makes me go hmmmmmmm.

However, there is a thin line between love and hate. 

Exploring this at some point, would serve you well. It seems as if you have some parallels, between anger and love, all wrapped up in a tidy little saying, to justify your behavior. A push and pull effect, that you most likely have lived with through out your life. When I state my definition of "love", the word hate is nowhere to be found, and visa versa. Could you explain this thin line?

  Greenmango, yes I have. I think I'm in the clear on the being firm and asking the hard questions. 

To come to this conclusion, just as the NC question, is narrow minded thinking. Understanding, how/why to become more open minded, especially when it comes to things that are confusing, will help.

  I guess at this point I just am bewildered at the way this has all played out. To be loved completely then dumped and she acts like I am a big scary monster. When I ran into her she cried, raged, then hugged me goodbye. I sat there the entire time with my mouth wide open speechless in shock catching flies. It is amazing spectacle to be honest. She hadn't seen me in almost 58 days and it was as if our conversation happened the day we broke up. If you are the dumper and want to be left alone why are you still this upset? Why are you crying? Why are you raging? Why didn't she just walk away? 

It is said, that those with severe PDs, or strong traits of PDs, live behind a few layers of masks. What you observed, was the removal of some of these masks. Its a little insight of how she processes things, not very well. Learn of the illness, with an open mind, and all of these questions will be answered.

Greenmango, we think very similarly, but if true mental illness they still lie. So to lie you know they're there enough to know to lie. I read somewhere they still no when to grab a jacket on a cold day.   

The reason anyone lies, is to protect the ego. You, me, anyone. Its a whole lot deeper, than a jacket on a cold day.

  I got so used to the madness I don't think I was really seeing just how jacked up some of this stuff really was. Some of the stuff i thought as small red flags she was like uh no that is a big deal!   

I later realized, that I had lived in different forms of madness my entire life, having to learn important things on my own. Some of these things I learned incorrectly.

Again, I say funny dont really mean that, but at this point if you don't laugh you would cry.   

Maybe you should try crying sometimes. It would seem to be, the more appropriate emotion to express... .  Anger is a projection one makes, the origin is the pain inside them, (regardless what the perception is). Depression is anger, turned inward... .  All this, and more, is needed to go through the grieving, and detaching in a healthy way... .  

   I have noticed I say stuff to T and I am all nonchalant and I look across and see shock in the other person's face. I think that says a lot of how conditioned to madness we become.   

When in Rome, do as the Romans... Whats the alternative, fight. I had always been a great peace keeper. I met my match.

  The more I detach the more I am seeing reality of just how crazy some if the behaviors actually were. I was being manipulated in so many ways and didnt even see it. Ex. I never knew being hung up on and ignored was a way if control. Yep I was conditioned and controlled without even realizing it! I had never experienced behavior such as this   

The lifting of the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt). I remember this, and it was very validating. It eventually had me curious, what else there was, I didnt realize.

   Never again is all I can say! 

The more you understand yourself, the easier it is, to understand others... .  Here's to never again!.... .  I wish you well, PEACE 

[freshlySane]

MY ex left me for her ex girlfriend she told me i was horrible person and that I didn't deserve to breath she told all these horrible things she said she still loved me but i was unhealthy for her. we was over for 8 months i broke NC and text ed her then it was like all the things i did didn't happen we got back together. problems came back in the relationship she found another man and this time when she painted me black she went full force she and her friend berated me. She attacked me because she thought i was cheating punch me in face tried to take my wallet so she could get her metro card back that she gave me all kinds of drama. I got arrested for pushing her off of me. and now i am the devil to her she is with a new guy who she has been talking to secretly 3 months since we got back. she is so happy and in love with him and how i was just a horror to be with so when they paint you black depending on the situation they paint you white again unless the situation is really bad then your black for good.

[asher2]

Robbz... .  like you, I am about 90 out from NC with my ex. I can relate to your questions as I had them intensely when we first broke up. With the exception of a meaningless text she sent (she was fishing, I believe) a week after I went NC with her, I have not heard from her. Like you, I wonder if she will make a recycle attempt.

Like your T, mine made me come up with a plan for if she does try to reconnect. I have a plan for if she shows up at my place, shows up at work, sends me an email, text, etc. In short, my response is pretty much the same to all the scenarios - no response. If she shows up in person, I'm keeping my words short and getting out of the situation. Email, text, no response. For me personally, I refuse to play the game. And as I've read seemlingly over and over on this site, the feelings that can come over you in a recycle attempt are POWERFUL. I think a plan for response is a prudent thing to have after a relationship with a borderline.

I found it interesting that my T was especially concerned for me having a plan for if she threatens suicide with me (my ex has a suicide attempt in the past). My T was adament about having a plan for that.

What I've also learned in my 90 days since going NC and learning a ton on this subject, is to trust the research that has been done on BPD. GreenMango brought up a great point earlier. For the longest time, in my mind I kept thinking that she was missing me. As the research shows, she's not. My guess is her mind right now is consumed with her new victim (and God knows who else). To me, that's illogical. How could someone go from wanting to get married, have kids with me, I'm the perfect guy, etc. to sleeping in some other guy's bed almost immediately? It doesn't make sense to me and for the longest time I beat myself up over it. With time, I've learned that she is mentally ill and trust what the professionals say about her illness and my experience with her.  

But with the research in mind, it shows that more times than not, they do attempt to recycle. Like many others, I'm a fan of 2010's posts and she states that they typically occur 3 to 4 months after NC. She also states that they can make attempts years, if not decades after a relationship has ended. Robbz, you and I are in that time period right now (90 days out) where we should be viligant of an attempt. With that being said, I think if you have a plan in place, there is nothing to spend a lot of time worrying about.

When we first broke up, I was parinod that she'd reandomly show up somewhere. I've gotten over that now. I know I have a plan and I just need to be sure to stick to it if a recycle attempt happens and know that the emotions I may feel in that moment might be strong. I've told myself over and over to take a deep breath, remember the plan and stick to it... .  and get out quickly!

[freshlySane]

it sounds easier said then done but dont break NC trust me its for you not them ... .  I learned my lessons with that

[FindingMe2011]

 I found it interesting that my T was especially concerned for me having a plan for if she threatens suicide with me (my ex has a suicide attempt in the past). My T was adamant about having a plan for that.    

Along the same lines of having a fire drill, or what my kids do, these days at school. They call it "lock down". This way when the bullets are real. There is an order to the disorder. You will have a plan made, when emotions stand the chance, of bringing you to a poor decision, again... .  I wish you well, PEACE

[Robbz]

Wow, you guys are awesome! Many I'd your replies are giving me new things to think about. Having a plan for each scenario is wise. Even planning for suicide threat is good advice. I could see desperation coming at some point for her. I guess I'm not painted as black as she is acting and deep down it concerns me because I know I need to prepare as well based on my unique relationship yeah at some point some where its going to happen. I read on here BPD's mourn a relationship backwards. That hit me. It has played out on my situation this far. Ex also has to make a point to tell me she isn't dating anyone or still thinks of me randomly while she was raging at me. Of course, I don't believe a word she says, but find it interesting. No lie, she says you caused x, y, z and I hate you, I'm not dating anyone, and you are a arsehole. Lol, anyone experience that? Unbelievable!

[Robbz]

Greenmango, can you help me on my other thread "24/7"? Trying to work through those thoughts and need help understanding.

[asher2]

Robbz... .  you used a word that, at least for my situation certianly rings true, "desperation." When my ex feels desperate, that's when I expect a recycle attempt. I don't think she's desperate right now, someone else is soothing her abandoment fears. As I've stated in previous post, I believe her reconnection attempt will be intense and bizarre. I also believe something else 2010 says in her posts... .  that it will occur when I least expect it.

I'm like you in that I don't think I've been painted all that black. In our situation, I think it just got to the point for her that moving on to my replacement was the easier and certianly the safer option at that moment in time. She was actually seeing my replacement before she met me (imagine that, the guy she is with now is a recycle!) and I remember asking her about him. She said that she liked him, but didn't think she'd ever fall in love with him. Who knows though (clinging to words that were said), it's hard to know what was the truth and what was a lie. However, I tend to believe what she said about him because there was no reason for her to lie to me about it. This, mixed with very irrational, impulsive behavior at the end of our relationship makes me think that I haven't been painted dark black.

In any event, I've got my plan for reaction. I do think a recycle attempt will happen, it's just a matter of time. But I have zero interest in having anything to do with her ever again. I've been using this NC time to work on me and make myself better for not just me, but for future relationships as well.

[Robbz]

Asher, it sounds very similar feeling. The not hanging onto words and going off actions I got a bad feeling and T has me preparing for D day. Her actions say I hate you, but them she is trying to intimately hug me goodbye and crying in sadness. So confusing and definitely rings of I hate you don't leave me. That's why I said earlier there's a thin line between love and hate. Even normal relationships have that aspect. I read a study that scientist proved that medically in that same part of the brain was used for those emotions and stored right next to each other.  I guess the tangible aspects are we have those dynamics, cycles to where she gets angry, then busy, then finally comes back as me being white. It's funny bc in our few run in's since 90 days it has been push/pull with her emotions all over the place within a brief ten minute conversation. Always filled with tears, intense anger, projection of 100% blame, and bizarre stuff like her trying to intimately hug me, telling me she is still single, and thinks about me. Imagine this scenario playing out of me sitting there in shock with head spinning. This aspect concerns me as if D day comes, it's like I get a scrambled brain trying to process the madness going on in front of me. It actually scares me that this person is out there running around so dysregulated. I could see a break down occurring and she said that herself. Do BPD's ever just break? I am trying to just focus on me, but think of this stuff trying to prepare.

[Robbz]

Just going to say I see myself detaching more every day and knowing I can handle attempt if it happens. I still see I have to let go of any desires / answers as even if I engaged none of the words spoken would be truth. So I understand why NC is the way to go. On the flip side at this point the behavior / actions on her part are making more sense the more I educate myself on this illness. The more I learn the more pieces of the puzzle come together. I think back to when this first happened and realize just how in over my head I actually was. I didn't have a chance and had no idea what was actually going on in front of my eyes. Those red flags weren't real red at the time and sometimes just looked like everyone else's issues. I think that is what is do tough about this illness. It looked quite normal often times, and I was with a high functioning waif who is a master survivor and good at putting her best foot forward. Saying that, it's a thin mask and once peeled just a little the cat's out of the bag. I've learned a lot by this experience. I heard a good saying the other day, if a person tells you they have problems, believe them!

[TheDude]

From my own point of view, I would agree with the T and those who have supported the idea that she will reappear. I've been through 3 'recycles' in the last 4 years, always after 4 to 6 months. Because of the dynamics of most of these situations, you cannot assume being "strong enough" to engage her in any way when she reappears. The strength you need is that of completely ignoring her, no ifs, ands, or buts. The intoxication of the reappearance is extraordinarily powerful, as I'm sure many here will attest to... .  

[FindingMe2011]

  I heard a good saying the other day, if a person tells you they have problems, believe them!   

Yes, i would have to agree, but understanding the motive why this person, brought you their problems, is one you could/should also consider. What is it, that you would be getting in return, for helping this person. How invested are you going to become. Just plain observation, and seeing that the words, match the actions, because words are cheap, will tell you what you need to know... .  When someone shows you whom they are, believe them... .  There is another factual saying, thats also pretty good, you see it at the top of this board from time to time... .  Think about it... .  People seek out others, that are close to their own emotional maturity level. So the notion we were decieved, led down the path, ect.,ect., should somewhat go out the window also.

The intoxication of the reappearance is extraordinarily powerful, as I'm sure many here will attest to.   

If one gets enough work done, on himself. This re-engagement takes on a whole new perspective. I learned how to set beside my "intoxication" (emotions). The only way the encounter could continue in a dysfunctional positive fashion, was if I stroked her ego. I would give her opportunities, to be responsible for her words and actions. I was amazed at the number of lies, that just piled, on top of each other, even with things not even pertaining to the r/s, that had recently happened. The only difference that had taken place, was the work I had done on myself... .  The detox feeling we get, has many of the same parallels concerning brain chemistry, as a person detoxing off of drugs, grieving a death, and many other situations. JMHO, the deeper our core trauma, the more intoxicated we can get. The deeper our core trauma, the harder to detox... .  I wish you well, PEACE

[Gaslit]

Robbz, I have read this before as well, but can't find it now. I remember it hitting home, Can someone explain this?

I read on here BPD's mourn a relationship backwards.

[Seb]

I remember the post too... .  

I think it was referencing a pwBPD who that she has found that she grieves the end of a relationship backwards to how a non does.

We are so shocked at the sudden dumping, we don't realise that they have split us and are running away as fast as they can in the opposite direction. But as time goes on, we move on with our lives, we heal... .  they, however, begin to miss us more and more, and it's then that they possibly reach out to us.   

So it is almost backwards. We would do anything, initially, to be given a reprieve. Initially, they just want out.

We heal, and because (without major introspection and therapy) they can't heal, they look to us to make them feel better again.

[FindingMe2011]

Here are some words from a recovering BPD sufferer,

Did she ever love me?

One question often pondered by relationship partners is "What was the true nature of the relationship? Did she (he) love me?"

The purpose of this workshop is to explore the nature of BPD love. 

[The main text of this intro post is an extended version of the essay I wrote to accompany the article How a Borderline Relationship Evolves, by Roger Melton, MA. The approach I’ve taken in writing what it’s like to love as a person with BPD has been mostly academic and abstract, more about the process of it rather than the feeling of it. I’ve stayed away from becoming too emotionally detailed because even though I am mostly recovered, it still is a painful subject, made even more so because I am single. Those old ghosts sometimes come knocking, still.]

Anyway, input, reactions, thoughts, opinions, solutions ( ), etc. about this subject would be welcome and appreciated.

What’s it like to love when you have borderline personality disorder?

... .  I don’t know, but only because when I was not yet recovering from BPD as I am now, I couldn’t love. Not because I wasn’t capable of it (after all we people with BPD are still people) but because it wasn’t really love. It certainly felt like love to me – the only way I knew love to feel: desperate, overwhelming, consuming, and ultimately destructive. Love was like Hiroshima. It truly was a feeling of searing heat.

It was that way from the beginning of a relationship, and it was certainly that way at the end of one, and there was always an end because no healthy, normal human interaction could survive that kind of intensity. But at the beginning there was always positive passion, which understandably made the non-BPD partner feel so exquisitely wanted. At the end of it, the passion was as strong as the start, but regardless of who ended the relationship, it was wholly negative.

People with BPD are intense by nature: one of the disorder’s basic structures is mood lability. But the force of our love – and our hate, though never indifference – comes from something altogether different: from the deep emptiness inside us, where no warmth seems to reach. It’s an absence of a sense of self, a sense of being a good person, and comes from a lack (or perceived lack) of getting our primary needs met when we were children, for whatever reason: abuse, neglect, trauma, difficult innate temperaments, invalidation, loss of a caretaker, harsh environment, whatever it may be.

Love, for an adult, unrecovered BP, is still about getting those driving, unfulfilled needs met. It’s about finding THE person to love us unconditionally who will never leave us and who will make our lives bearable, who will give us a reason to live and give us back ourselves. Ultimately, that’s why it can’t be love, because romantic love is between two people who can experience emotional intimacy and who see each other as partners and as ends in themselves. The unrecovered person with BPD is not capable of that kind of selflessness and sharing: the partner remains an object to a BP, whether the BP is conscious of it or not: the partner is the “cure” for our loneliness, a source to feed our neediness, not a person in and of themselves.

So when our partner lets us down – for, as being humans they inevitably will – the once burning hot passion becomes a roaring fire of hatred or a self-immolation of agony and sadness. We don’t always mean to hurt the people we love, sometimes we don’t realize we have hurt the people we love, and often we hate ourselves because we have hurt the people we love. We want those we love to be with us and to stay with us, as does everyone else. That we folks with BPD are usually the very reasons those people leave is a pain beyond knowing: the thing we want the most is the thing we know least how to have. How horribly pitiful that is. Unless we grow and change and learn healthy ways, this will always be so in our lives, which means we will never truly experience the greatest thing that makes life worthwhile: LOVE

   

[Gaslit]

The mourning the relationship backwards by a pwBPD is so accurate.

There's a break, we are sad, miserable, want to talk through it, they want nothing to do with us.

We go NC and begin to heal, and just as we are making progress, boom, they are back! The timing was always so uncanny to me, but it makes sense when you factor in the mourning in reverse. Fascinating.

[must move on]

The mourning the relationship backwards by a pwBPD is so accurate.

There's a break, we are sad, miserable, want to talk through it, they want nothing to do with us.

We go NC and begin to heal, and just as we are making progress, boom, they are back! The timing was always so uncanny to me, but it makes sense when you factor in the mourning in reverse. Fascinating.

I have never seen anything on BPD's mourning in reverse? anyone have a link please.

[Seb]

It was first mentioned in this thread...

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=173913.0

[benny2]

yep, in and out of my life for 17 years. Its got to end sometime. Maybe this is it.