I need help: he has BPD, sex and sexuality issues too

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello everybody,
I am sorry for this long post and please excuse my English. I am sorry if I am not claire in my thoughts. I just need to say it all. I don’t really have who to talk about such personal subject. I told a lot to my sister and friend. But not everything. And they are not able to really understand what it is like and I don’t want to cry on their shoulders every day.
I am married to a man who recently has been diagnosed with BPD. We have been together for 15 years. We have 3 years old daughter and we got married few years ago. Until November we had normal life. Well I guess symptoms where there all the time. Sometimes it was annoying. Stressing about simple things like cooking, or uninterested in what I say… Blaming everyone at work and changing jobs every few years. I followed him everywhere and being not native could hardly make friends or find job. I'm really shy and don't make friends easy. We had good times, watched TV shows, and travelled a bit, made pictures together. We promised from day one we would tell if we meet someone else and we wouldn’t cheat. After 12 years, he finally was ready to have a kid. During pregnancy, he was fantastic (still stressed about cooking and not supporting any critical remark and managing things his own way which was strange to the rest of the world, but I was a queen). While giving birth he was there so supportive. First years was hard - I breast-fed her for 2 years and she wasn’t sleeping more than 3 hours in a row. We were exhausted. I was. He would wake up early before work to be with her so I could get a bit more sleep. When she was 4 month old we moved. To another country. I liked where I lived. I got some professional connections and friends. We lived 200 meters from the sea. But he was really unhappy. I agreed to move. I was so tired I didn't unpack everything for 2 years. Home was always a mess. It felt depressing at times, though apartment was great. I stopped breast-feeding and things slowly was getting better. You don’t recover from not sleeping 2 years in one week, but she was sleeping more and more. We started thinking of moving again. And my husband wanted more sex. And we were getting there but not very fast. If we would have it he would expect more and if you say no, you could feel he is upset. But I was tired, baby next door. I wanted, but simply couldn't. And he was ok. Or so I thought. He was watching porn every day since I know him. But I didn’t think anything bad. So things were getting better. I could finally see colours of life. Then my husband had lot of work to do (deadline of project) and my family had few problems so my girl and I went to stay at my folks in other country. Our journey was prolonged by my husband’s wishes. We were ill and he had still lot of work. He looked tired. I was crying. I wanted my cosy Christmas with my little family. I was too tired for big fat Christmas with tones of cooking at home. And I can't explain but I was really wanting to go home. Cried all night. Next day felt broken. Had bad dream that told my husband about. We carried on. Felt distant from my husband. We never did well on distance conversations. He is not good on chatting.
Sorry for long introduction. I m getting to the point.
On January he still looked tired with tones of work but he wanted us back. He picked us up in airport and once we entered apartment with baby next to us, he told he was bi. He was sorry not to tell before. He was hiding it from himself. He never cheated on me. But he met a guy and wants to sleep with him. Also he wanted kill himself on Christmas, and was on his way to do it, but my dream safe him. He didn’t want me to think I dreamt this would happen. So there we were. He said I could leave. We talked a lot. He said he’d like to seek relations with man that we would chose, would be checked and so on. But only if I am comfortable. If not, he won’t do anything. Our sex life became better, more often more different things we were trying. I was feeling wanted. He was more attentive to my needs, which was never the case before. But the need to sleep with man was there. And he started seeing specialist. Who diagnosed him with BPD and tones of others things. I read a brochure, but I didn’t realise how serious it was. I was still insensitive to his symptoms; I was always emotional and still I would say if he was doing something wrong in my view. He would bring sleeping with man again and again. I was not ready. We moved to this little village. I dint want any more to move. But he said it would be good for us. New start. And its good environment for kid. But I have 0 chance to work here and I’m scared of driving. We had our families visiting us. And at times it seemed normal life, at times emotional hell. I felt his distance and hostility sometimes. To that I respond with hostility. Especially if he were inpatient with baby. He talked about killing himself once. He talked to his doctors. Got time off from work. Sex obsession was stronger. He didn’t care if I was ill, tired or baby just somewhere around. If you flirt a bit, he takes his pants down. Does not get kind hints it’s not the time. His face changes, like is transformed. But he was not thinking sex is the problem. He thought it’s a problem to me. His new medics made it hard to cum. Once he spent few hours trying to come. It was scary. Nevertheless, we managed to have nice evenings with good sex until one month ago.
Few weeks ago, he was down again. Saying he is missing his bf from 15 years ago. But he killed himself long time ago. He can’t help it. He tried to have sex with me, but didn’t finish. And I was eager all weekend. With no response. Then he said he is going to hospital. Too big risk of suicide. I was scared but he was getting help. And I had some time off from emotional drama. We had planned a trip to Paris, and he still wanted to stick with it, as for him it was stuff for work. Doctors agreed to let him out if he comes back to hospital. Hospital was 2 hours away but I was planning to see him on weekend. He started insist on us coming on Wednesday even though it was 6 means of transportation (4 trains 2 busses) in one day. A bit much for 3 years old especially if we go to Paris in 2 days.
Then he said it. That he had sex with female patient in there... Less than a week in hospital... As I was reading much more about BPD I was starting to realise that I was not helping him. Not understanding how he felt.  So I was hurt but I understood the impulse better. What confused me most was that it was female. After all this 6 months talking how he needs man, saying its not the same as sex with a girl... .We went to Paris, had some nice time there, tried to have sex. He didn’t finish. Said he didn’t really feel like. Last evening in Paris he said we should divorce, he wanted to sleep with other people he didn’t want to fight this urge. I cried. Tried to reason him. In the morning cried more. I couldn’t anymore. All was too real. Still I said to him that he wouldn’t lose us. I wouldn’t hate him. At home, he went directly to the doctor. I asked to see his doctor to know more about his condition. I see it’s getting worst. His medics changes him. And I want to know what to expect, how to handle it. Doctor refuses to see me. That evening, looking in my eyes, he said he is going to look for other people. I broke. Cried aloud with pain in heart and even hitting the floor with my fist. Once calm, I’m more open minded. I read more. It calms me down knowing he is not well but can get better. He was calm, so I tried to talk. I don’t think I can be in open relationship. I need full investment. I can't keep caring, washing his clothes, hug him when I know he goes to other people. Doesn’t matter that he says he loves me ant he needs just pure sex from others. He is not against seeing sexologist, or support group with me. He is more defensive about setting rules in our lives so we avoid crises, mood swings. He started smoking and eating ice-cream. But he doesn’t have any other help plan. I’m not sure he thinks he needs one.
Then he texted me that he is avoiding conversation coz he is afraid to lose everything. I said he wouldn’t lose me as long as I see the effort to get better. He said that he should be faithful. He is married to me. However, it sounded more that he was convincing himself than me. He loves our daughter. When in right mind he is great father. She adores him.
Last night he wanted to have sex with me. For me it was great. We did thing I was not comfortable before. I enjoyed. He didn't. He didn't finish.

So I need help. He doesn’t want more anymore sex with. He wants to want with me but he wants it with rest of the world. However, he wants to raise kid together, to live with me. He says he loves me. He is at his doctor now.  I don’t know what’s next. Isn't there any other way but letting him have sex with others? How do you stay family like this? Or is it just him not wanting to get better?
 It has all changed so fast and keeps changing that I have hard time to catch up and adjust. Deep down I still want to believe it all will go back to as it was. All I want is stable home, with family traditions, loughs and barbeques, travels, hugs and kisses, pets, without him being all the time in his phone.
 But I see he suffers. Would letting him go help him?

[desperate.wife]

Hello everybody,
I am sorry for this long post and please excuse my English. I am sorry if I am not claire in my thoughts. I just need to say it all. I don’t really have who to talk about such personal subject. I told a lot to my sister and friend. But not everything. And they are not able to really understand what it is like and I don’t want to cry on their shoulders every day.
I am married to a man who recently has been diagnosed with BPD. We have been together for 15 years. We have 3 years old daughter and we got married few years ago. Until November we had normal life. Well I guess symptoms where there all the time. Sometimes it was annoying. Stressing about simple things like cooking, or uninterested in what I say… Blaming everyone at work and changing jobs every few years. I followed him everywhere and being not native could hardly make friends or find job. I'm really shy and don't make friends easy. We had good times, watched TV shows, and travelled a bit, made pictures together. We promised from day one we would tell if we meet someone else and we wouldn’t cheat. After 12 years, he finally was ready to have a kid. During pregnancy, he was fantastic (still stressed about cooking and not supporting any critical remark and managing things his own way which was strange to the rest of the world, but I was a queen). While giving birth he was there so supportive. First years was hard - I breast-fed her for 2 years and she wasn’t sleeping more than 3 hours in a row. We were exhausted. I was. He would wake up early before work to be with her so I could get a bit more sleep. When she was 4 month old we moved. To another country. I liked where I lived. I got some professional connections and friends. We lived 200 meters from the sea. But he was really unhappy. I agreed to move. I was so tired I didn't unpack everything for 2 years. Home was always a mess. It felt depressing at times, though apartment was great. I stopped breast-feeding and things slowly was getting better. You don’t recover from not sleeping 2 years in one week, but she was sleeping more and more. We started thinking of moving again. And my husband wanted more sex. And we were getting there but not very fast. If we would have it he would expect more and if you say no, you could feel he is upset. But I was tired, baby next door. I wanted, but simply couldn't. And he was ok. Or so I thought. He was watching porn every day since I know him. But I didn’t think anything bad. So things were getting better. I could finally see colours of life. Then my husband had lot of work to do (deadline of project) and my family had few problems so my girl and I went to stay at my folks in other country. Our journey was prolonged by my husband’s wishes. We were ill and he had still lot of work. He looked tired. I was crying. I wanted my cosy Christmas with my little family. I was too tired for big fat Christmas with tones of cooking at home. And I can't explain but I was really wanting to go home. Cried all night. Next day felt broken. Had bad dream that told my husband about. We carried on. Felt distant from my husband. We never did well on distance conversations. He is not good on chatting.
Sorry for long introduction. I m getting to the point.
On January he still looked tired with tones of work but he wanted us back. He picked us up in airport and once we entered apartment with baby next to us, he told he was bi. He was sorry not to tell before. He was hiding it from himself. He never cheated on me. But he met a guy and wants to sleep with him. Also he wanted kill himself on Christmas, and was on his way to do it, but my dream safe him. He didn’t want me to think I dreamt this would happen. So there we were. He said I could leave. We talked a lot. He said he’d like to seek relations with man that we would chose, would be checked and so on. But only if I am comfortable. If not, he won’t do anything. Our sex life became better, more often more different things we were trying. I was feeling wanted. He was more attentive to my needs, which was never the case before. But the need to sleep with man was there. And he started seeing specialist. Who diagnosed him with BPD and tones of others things. I read a brochure, but I didn’t realise how serious it was. I was still insensitive to his symptoms; I was always emotional and still I would say if he was doing something wrong in my view. He would bring sleeping with man again and again. I was not ready. We moved to this little village. I dint want any more to move. But he said it would be good for us. New start. And its good environment for kid. But I have 0 chance to work here and I’m scared of driving. We had our families visiting us. And at times it seemed normal life, at times emotional hell. I felt his distance and hostility sometimes. To that I respond with hostility. Especially if he were inpatient with baby. He talked about killing himself once. He talked to his doctors. Got time off from work. Sex obsession was stronger. He didn’t care if I was ill, tired or baby just somewhere around. If you flirt a bit, he takes his pants down. Does not get kind hints it’s not the time. His face changes, like is transformed. But he was not thinking sex is the problem. He thought it’s a problem to me. His new medics made it hard to cum. Once he spent few hours trying to come. It was scary. Nevertheless, we managed to have nice evenings with good sex until one month ago.
Few weeks ago, he was down again. Saying he is missing his bf from 15 years ago. But he killed himself long time ago. He can’t help it. He tried to have sex with me, but didn’t finish. And I was eager all weekend. With no response. Then he said he is going to hospital. Too big risk of suicide. I was scared but he was getting help. And I had some time off from emotional drama. We had planned a trip to Paris, and he still wanted to stick with it, as for him it was stuff for work. Doctors agreed to let him out if he comes back to hospital. Hospital was 2 hours away but I was planning to see him on weekend. He started insist on us coming on Wednesday even though it was 6 means of transportation (4 trains 2 busses) in one day. A bit much for 3 years old especially if we go to Paris in 2 days.
Then he said it. That he had sex with female patient in there... Less than a week in hospital... As I was reading much more about BPD I was starting to realise that I was not helping him. Not understanding how he felt.  So I was hurt but I understood the impulse better. What confused me most was that it was female. After all this 6 months talking how he needs man, saying its not the same as sex with a girl... .We went to Paris, had some nice time there, tried to have sex. He didn’t finish. Said he didn’t really feel like. Last evening in Paris he said we should divorce, he wanted to sleep with other people he didn’t want to fight this urge. I cried. Tried to reason him. In the morning cried more. I couldn’t anymore. All was too real. Still I said to him that he wouldn’t lose us. I wouldn’t hate him. At home, he went directly to the doctor. I asked to see his doctor to know more about his condition. I see it’s getting worst. His medics changes him. And I want to know what to expect, how to handle it. Doctor refuses to see me. That evening, looking in my eyes, he said he is going to look for other people. I broke. Cried aloud with pain in heart and even hitting the floor with my fist. Once calm, I’m more open minded. I read more. It calms me down knowing he is not well but can get better. He was calm, so I tried to talk. I don’t think I can be in open relationship. I need full investment. I can't keep caring, washing his clothes, hug him when I know he goes to other people. Doesn’t matter that he says he loves me ant he needs just pure sex from others. He is not against seeing sexologist, or support group with me. He is more defensive about setting rules in our lives so we avoid crises, mood swings. He started smoking and eating ice-cream. But he doesn’t have any other help plan. I’m not sure he thinks he needs one.
Then he texted me that he is avoiding conversation coz he is afraid to lose everything. I said he wouldn’t lose me as long as I see the effort to get better. He said that he should be faithful. He is married to me. However, it sounded more that he was convincing himself than me. He loves our daughter. When in right mind he is great father. She adores him.
Last night he wanted to have sex with me. For me it was great. We did thing I was not comfortable before. I enjoyed. He didn't. He didn't finish.

So I need help. He doesn’t want more anymore sex with. He wants to want with me but he wants it with rest of the world. However, he wants to raise kid together, to live with me. He says he loves me. He is at his doctor now.  I don’t know what’s next. Isn't there any other way but letting him have sex with others? How do you stay family like this? Or is it just him not wanting to get better?
 It has all changed so fast and keeps changing that I have hard time to catch up and adjust. Deep down I still want to believe it all will go back to as it was. All I want is stable home, with family traditions, loughs and barbeques, travels, hugs and kisses, pets, without him being all the time in his phone.
 But I see he suffers. Would letting him go help him?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[juju2]

So sorry you are hurting.  You are in the right place.  Caring people here.  All of this sounds like its very serious symptoms of BPD.  There is treatment.
Keep posting.  People with this experience you are having will chime in.
My person w BPD also had a very bad time finishing when we had sex.  It would take 45 minutes, i couldnt last that long, and still he wouldnt finish... .he was into porn too.  We are separated for 15 months now, we lived together ten years. Nvr married.  He is afraid of any commitment... .we have been on and off, off now for 8 months.  He is dating someone 24 yrs younger than him.  What i finally saw was all of the selfishness he has. 

Above all, be good to yourself. Do kind things for yourself... .there is help here.

j

[desperate.wife]

Thank you for your kind words. I guess if there were no kid I wouldn't have been that strong. Hardest thing is that I want to help but I have no information about what is going on. I don't even know what therapy he is on and if his doctor is qualified to provide best care for BPD. It is hard not to take it personally when faced with infidelity. I get that when he feels this way he can't help. All I ask is to try to avoid getting this way. Although I understand these urges its part of BPD, for me it still feels like he wants convenience of wife (washing dirty clothes, shoulder to cry on, play with kid when in good mood) while putting his dick wherever it sticks. I know it is not like that for him. But it is for me. Choosing sex over family. It is clearly not healthy. He is very open with me. Tells me everything, as much as he can. And he suffers. He is egoistic, but he is also caring. Just for my birthday, he got me computer and camera with different lenses... .5 days after he got payed in his account was 75 cents. That doesn't help with stable environment. I'd like to discuss money managing rules, little everyday things, communication rules, plan daily activities so they don’t stress him. But I think he is not ready to do that or maybe it is too late.
It is hard to end relationship when it last that long. Especially when we don’t hate the person.

[pearlsw]

Hi desperate.wife,

It is no problem, your story is possible to follow. You are a skilled writer in your non-native language!

I would say you have multiple issues going on here. First, let's talk about his sexuality. He has come out to you as bi. He sometimes wants to sleep with men, maybe sometimes other women too. He wants to sleep with you at times as well. You, on the other hand, do not want an open relationship. This is not in alignment with your values or your vision of what family can/should be.

Next, you are a kind and loving person. Your natural instinct is to be supportive of him, treat this like a health issue, and get some help. One big problem here though, that I see, is you are trying to "get things back" to a place they can't get back to. There is only forward, there is no going back in life.

Have you seen a counselor just for yourself to make sense of all this? And get clear in your head?

This is pretty complicated. I live overseas in a foreign country with a man from a different culture. There are many challenges. Just having a baby, and all the moves and job changes you have dealt with is a whole lot to go through! All of that is very hard.

He may be wanting more sex because of the BPD, yes, promiscuity can be an issue, but it could also just be that he his sexuality was repressed - it is actually both issues in his case it seems. He may be able to stop having sex with other people too, sure. He may even change his mind on being bi, or pick females over males for his monogamous relationship partner, if he chooses monogamy. I have a male friend who slept with a few men to try it out and then settled back into being more interested in women and married one. I don't know if he would identify as bi now, or if he wanted that label on his sexuality. He may have some interest in terms of fantasizing, but not want to build a whole life around that desire. I don't think he'd claim that he is bi, but I also have friends that are and do claim that label for their sexuality. But the question here is: Do you have to have a straight husband or is a bi or bi curious husband an option? (and if so the latter does he satisfy this through fantasy or actual partners?)

Sexuality can be fluid, and society pressures many to feel they have to hide it. But what is definitely clear is that you want a monogamous husband. And if he is not monogamous you have to decide... .Do you want a married life with him? Yes or no? And if yes, what does that look like exactly?

Once you decide on that you deal with those two options. If not, you don't want to be married, you work on the best divorce for yourself and your child as possible so the dad can still be involved and you and the child are taken care of and can move on. (Or maybe you need to stay legally married for some reason even if not a committed couple?) If you want to work it out with him, that requires his consent. Does he want to work it out with you? And if he does, what compromises and concessions is he willing to make, if any, to give you what you want in a life together? What compromises and concessions can you give him so you are also able to be happy with this arrangement? And be careful, do not give up anything that leaves you miserable in life. You being miserable is not good for your child or you, okay?

Sounds to me like he may want you to be at home with the child and him to be with you and others when he feels like. Does that sound correct? And if so, how do you feel about this? Are you willing to bend on this or do you want something else for your life?

These are hard decisions. We all have to figure out what we can and cannot put up with - what is acceptable or unacceptable. What do you want?

There is danger in expecting him to change. I'd ask him to directly tell me what he could and could not do - what he can and cannot offer and go from there. This is the time for practical decision making in my book. The more clear headed you are the better off you will be. What works, what doesn't, go from there.

I am so sorry you are faced with this. We are not here to ever tell you to stay or go. It is your choice completely! But that is an empowering thing. You get to decide what is right or wrong for your life. Not him. Your choices.

What do you want?

with deep compassion, pearl.

[zachira]

You are confused about what to do as your husband has changed his ways so many times, including sexual habits and preferences, that you don't know where to turn. You are wondering if it would help him if you divorced. On this site, we do not give advice about staying or leaving, as you are the only one who knows what is best for you, and whatever you decide there will be a lot of pain and hurt involved. I think a good goal might be to try to work on figuring out what you want while helping him get the best treatment possible if he is open to that. You are concerned about his sexuality and rightfully so. In addition to his treatment for BPD, he might benefit from working with a specialist in out of control sexual behaviors for men. You might google: Doug Braun Harvey, Michael Vigorito, who are both experts in this area and have written many articles and some books. Do take care, and let us know how you are doing. You have lots going on, and things will get better as long as you are courageously facing your challenges like you are doing now.

[desperate.wife]

Thank you all. I didn’t write in English since school, so I’m really happy you could follow my thoughts.
And thank you zachira for the suggested readings, I will look into it. Things are changing every week. When I start being ok with one, another comes out, and I dont know if there's end to that.

I reread again pearlsw reply and i'll read again tomorrow. It is everything I think, but in a clear way. Thank you so much. It really feels good to be listened. Zachira, pearl your all sums up are so accurate! Juju2 thank you for sharing. It is really too much 45 minutes. In my case he used to be quick, just his medications now has this effect on him. But no matter long or quick that’s not the way I get my pleasure. Although I do enjoy it with good lubrication. And really want to avoid on and off relation.

Yesterday, after reading your responses, your valid points, I just closed my computer and all I wanted was to watch Hugh Grants’ romantic comedy or smth silly like that, it was just overwhelming. I need time to process my thoughts. I couldn’t watch anything. My little one got ill, and didn’t sleep well.

I’d like to tell a bit about her relation with dad. She has very strong connection with him. She would cry when he leaves, would keep saying don’t leave, I love you. Each time she starts behaving like this (last two times, lasts a weak or so), he ends up saying he wants to kill himself. She feels him better than I do. I see things are not right but not that they are bad. He can hide from me, but not from her. When all this started, he asked her if family was important. She said, yes. He asked why. She answered: family is important so we wouldn’t get lost. Two and half years old! Knows better than us. Each time she tries to make us kiss, hug all 3 of us, and would calm us down if hears our voices raised. Just last night she cried and started calling him, and wouldn’t calm down till he came (that’s big thing: under pills it is really hard to wake him up). And she kept checking if we both are next to her. And yesterday when he left to see doctor she was worried again.

All this doesn’t make it easy to leave nor for me nor for him. She is our rock. We know she needs happy stable family.

Do I want to leave? I won’t lie, this questions were few times in my head over all these years. After all his odd behaviour was present all the time. At times, especially lately it was like living with teenager. Reading about BPD, it’s like reading about him. But he has good and generous heart. And expresses his feeling how he can, buying big presents.

Yesterday he came back from doctor calm. His medication got adjusted again. He had new one prescribed in hospital and couldn’t wake up in the mornings. Or all half day. On Saturday he woke to go to sports, went there and slept in the car…He says we should wait and see how this would affect our sex life. Because these medics helps him with anxiety but messes up everything else.

His doctor also said he has underdeveloped superego (I hope I use the right term, as he said in another language). The part that is responsible for not going out naked outside. It makes sense. He doesn’t go naked but he would walk with his shoes like sandals damaging them and looking ridiculous but wouldn’t listen to a reason. Can go with winter shoes in the middle of winter. Took me long time till he learned to close toilets doors, or he had started once at my sisters to zip his pants only when he was out of toilets. Anything you say makes him angry. But in the end he adjusts his behaviour. I asked what he could do about it. His doctor said there’s lot of work to do. And my husband said they always says that there’s work to do, but they never say what exactly. So it is not only me that thinks smth is missing in his therapy. But maybe doctors knows better.
He also talked to his doctor about my wish to seek support group for BPD and sex therapist, but doctor doesn’t think it is a good idea. He says it wouldn’t help as long as he doesn’t know what he wants in future. It is true. He has to figure this out. As well as I do, but support group is not about romantic relationship. No matter if we stay together or not he is father of our girl and we will always be involved. And we need to be educated about this condition. I don’t see harm in this. And sex therapist could help him too, regardless if are couple or not. But baby steps.

Yesterday he went outside twice for few hours. He needs space. I understand it. Yesterday he talked about getting cat, us going to us in few years, getting tattoo in my country while on holidays in one month. It is nice but I couldn’t be happy hearing that. His opinion changes too often. One day we are his whole world, next day…

Splitting up would be complicated. Option one is I go back to my country. He would fly every month to see her. How long would that last? But she would have grandparents that adores her. Aunt and two cousins one of which is about the same age as her.  Option two – we move in two smaller apartments. And I try to build my single life here. Option three – we live like roommates. Option four – we work out our problems and stay family. Honestly, I don’t know yet.

I don’t have therapist. I would like to. I have other things to deal with too to improve my life, but now it is complicated. There is no therapist in the village, and public transportation is complicated, my husband would stay with her happily, but his crises comes one after another and it is hard to plan anything. Besides, it wouldn’t be in my language. I take my long hot baths to sweat away the stress, take pictures to relax (when I can), do my thinking while cleaning kitchen. I know I shouldn’t hold on past, but how do you know that what happened the last 6 months is more real than what we‘ve experienced last 15 years? How do I know his sexuality problems and BPD is two different issues and I shouldn’t see as whole? And if he has his ways would BPD symptoms be less present?

He woke after 11 and looked really of. I don’t know if it is because of lack of sleep, or because he is down again. He said that was hell of the night, and my instinct is to say: well we had worse, and anyway you were sleeping, not in your bed, but your were, while I was up half night comforting her, snoozing half sitting, cleaning her nose, getting up for medics, trying to give it to her, cleaning sticky syrup from sofa, floor, hands…But I didn’t say all that, just said yea it was hard. He asked how it was when he left to bed. He is trying.

He says kid is most important and he has to do what is good for her. He just need time. He would prefer open marriage, but he needs to do the right thing. He tries to reason himself. I asked if he felt trapped. He said yes. I tried to talk about how open marriage would work. I don’t see having sex with him if he does it with others, and he is ok with it. Hurts. I need sex. With him. And now he wants only with females. I think I would be more ok if it were men. He still says he loves me. What is love? He doesn’t want details. But how I can choose this option without knowing the details. Stuck.
He was putting dishes in dishwasher. And he saw I was looking. He got angry defensive that I watch if he does it right. But how can I not? No matter how many times you tell that dishes has to be empty, he still puts plates and pans with rest of food. How many times you can tell to empty pockets before putting clothes to the washer, I still pick up papers, coins, screws ,trash and even Nutella little packs from washer…well it is like that last 6 months. Before it was not that severe. Before he was not eating ice cream on the toilet and leaving empty papers next to it.
Our daughter kept asking why dad makes mom cry and made us hug and hug and kept saying don’t go dad I love you. 3 years old.
I owe to her to try.


PS: I watched As good as it gets

[desperate.wife]

Yesterday I fell asleep perfectly calm. Woke up with clear head. Funny thing now it is him asking to try to stay together!
I asked him questions. To sum up:
He gets that sex for me is attached to feelings. For him not.
He enjoyed sex with the other woman. No feelings.
Why he doesn’t want sex with men anymore?
“Because I am still very attached to the last (dead) man I had sex with. Before meeting you.“

So what I grab from this :

He still has feelings for a dead man and therefore wouldn’t have sex with others. He says he loves me but would sleep with others and enjoy it.

I see a conflict there in logic. And I don’t see my place in this. His heart is with another man and body with other women. He clearly has lot of going on in his head. And it is up for him to figure it out. I care for him, and I won’t leave just yet. I’m thinking to give a shot for open marriage on trial basis. Give him time to deal with his mess and to give me time pull myself together. Coz now I know I can’t do anything about it. I can stop fighting for his feelings. And concentrate on other things. I am just preparing plan B. Will support him, coz I really don’t hate him. Besides he really thinks we can have good family life, and he would be less on his phone and would work on his BPD therapy to improve quality of life. I don’t expect it to be easy.

So he didn’t sleep all night, coz he forgot his medics and was scared I am leaving. In the morning, he was supper nice to our girl and seemed pretty relaxed making cheese cake. He asked if I am leaving. I felt like hugging him. I woke up knowing it is over but really wanting to be nice to him. I was eager to say I understand his feelings, I‘ll stay in the open marriage for now, coz I know now what to expect or not to expect. He got all moody saying it is 8 am and he is not going through all that again like yesterday. So I don’t want to be nice to him and hug him.

He also said he is afraid for our daughter because she is perfectly happy. He doesn’t want to screw her up. I say she is happy but stressed about us and it is not healthy.
I know she needs dad. But I also know how happy she is with my family and how much she misses them. And that she would be fine there.

[Radcliff]

In this thread, the thing that jumped out at me the most was pearlsw's advice to live a life that was aligned with your values.  To think about the things that are truly important to you in life, and make sure they come first.

Thinking about things this way, would trying an open marriage agree with your values?

Two things that jumped out at me about your posts are that your emotional and physical needs are not being met, and your child does not have stability. 

You don't seem confident that your husband is getting adequate care.  You are right that a support group for you would be good, but the doctor is right that unless your husband wants to change, a support group for him wouldn't help.  When your doctor talks about superego, he is using rather old-fashioned language.  You said you live in a small village.  Could it be possible to find a therapist or psychologist who has experience treating BPD?

WW

[desperate.wife]

Insert Quote
In this thread, the thing that jumped out at me the most was pearlsw's advice to live a life that was aligned with your values.  To think about the things that are truly important to you in life, and make sure they come first.

It's hard to know what I really want, I am so tired, besides it's hard to digest the sudden change. I want family, and normal family was always lacking i guess, from time I'd get feeling I’ll never have normal life due to his odds reactions to everyday social situations. But we had other nice things. And open marriage was not really an option for me till yesterday. I see now full picture and I can stop trying to concentrate on feelings. He offered divorce maybe 5 times already in last 6 months. Each time was when he had urges to sleep with other people. It took me unguarded and I said no, we can work it out. Each time he felt relaxed for some time and would try to be nice to me. Yesterday he realised that I have a say too, and it might be my decision to leave. He got scared. I saw message to someone I don't know saying I'm making my mind for divorce. Answer was smth like damn, too bad, get some rest. But I am afraid he is not telling them all story. So now, he wants to try. He is telling me he s gain wait and no one will want him anyway. And he goes to do sports to lose weight. His female bi colleague had sex with two coaches there. Well he knows how it would make me feel and he still wants to do it. But he wants to live with me. He promises we would be happy doing normal things: zoo's, trips, walks, he would be involved and would take care of us. As divorce is big change maybe open marriage would be phase of adaptation. I don't want to do anything that would make him feel abandoned, unloved. I want to let things gently. That’s my style, I never listened books that told leave kid to cry so he learns to sleep alone. It was tiresome but I did it my way. And I am happy. She is very independent and confident baby. Maybe I am wrong this time.

About the therapist, there’s one English speaking 30 minutes away. It would be hard to get there for me, but I’m considering, as she does skype sessions too. Don’t know if she is experienced in BPD. But the only way I can go if my husband stays with our girl. And while he is willing and used to do that, lately I don’t really trust him to stay alone with her. First, because of his pills that makes him sleepy and really disorientated sometimes, and another thing…well... Today finally in few weeks I got time to be alone, I took my camera to go out but spent some time reassuring my girl that I’ll be back soon. Once she was ok to let me go I went to bedroom to say I was leaving, I found him with porn and dick in his hand. So I said I’ll wait till he is done. He was really surprised: why? But I can't let my girl alone while he is doing that, can I? So I waited, and it didn’t took that long for him to finish. 10-15 minutes. And he was pretty loud to cum. I told it is not ok, he needs help. He said ok, I left.
Other than that, today he cooked nice healthy meal for me and our girl would get better, and he is trying to find things we would both be interested. He made me watch chess video. Its funny, but I really don’t follow the moves. My mind was never for technical details. I just can’t follow it and now I’m emotionally tired. I just stared at the screen. Now he wants us to sign up for Photoshop class. I don’t want Photoshop. I don’t get those layers. I just want to shoot my pictures. The point is, he is trying to find ways. Now he is back from sports, but he is in his car eating, because he is not ready to come back.

My way of dealing with things is talking about everything. But how do you talk with someone having BPD? If I bring the questions over skype, he answer some, but if you try to discuss it further he says I am torturing him, he feels like ___, horrible. But how you figure out things without talking?

Once again, I intended short post…I can’t help myself when I start typing.

[pearlsw]

Hi desperate.wife,

I expect there will continue to be a lot of twists and turns to your story as you make your way on this journey.

So having an open marriage for you means you will look the other way while he is sleeping with other people, probably women, because you want to maintain some stability for your daughter and give her closeness with her father by staying under the same roof?

It is a big choice to make. Have you started to think through all the practical and emotional aspects of this? Is this something you might be willing to try for a set amount of time before making a bigger commitment to it?

Are you being flexible? Or are you breaking from your values here in a way that could damage you in some way you do not yet grasp? Just something to consider. It is your call and there are reasons for doing this or not, but... .is he stable enough to handle this kind of thing?

And please dear, keep mindful of sexually transmitted diseases. They are not always visible and could pose serious risks to you. Make a policy on this and stick to it without exception. Given what has been going on you should get yourself tested as it is. I don't think you can necessarily trust his representations of what is going on for him sexually. He is struggling himself and not certain on this. But you have to be.

take care, pearl.

[desperate.wife]

Hello pearl,
Thank you for taking time to reply.
I am well aware of the diseases…It is him that brings the topic first. He says it would always be protected sex. Ideally, with one partner, and both would constantly get checked. And the one time he had sex, he said it was protected, I still had a dream he came back with herpes on his lip. So if we were to do this open marriage thing, between us all intimacy would be over. He would sleep in other bed. He is ok with that. It hurts. I still want to feel his warm touch, to hug, to give kisses. When he is calm and bright, which is less of the case these days. I think open marriage would be just for the 3-6 month. To be sure, he is ok and making decisions in his clear mind. And same for me. I want to feel stable to make decision like divorce. But if it is really going to be open marriage I think it would end up with divorce. I surprised myself with being ok with his first slip. I don’t know what else I can be ok with. But on other hand I think trust was broken. And not because of his infidelity, but the way he see things. Being ok to live with me without intimacy. He says he can still do things to satisfy my needs. But there’s toys for that. I need connection with a person. Full connection.
Yesterday before falling asleep, he said he wouldn’t kill himself. He said he has weighted his words and knows what he is saying. Then he said: I love you, you know? Sounded sincere and calm. I shook my head smiling. You don’t know, he said, but for me it is like that, I care about you. To which I answered, I know you care about me, but that doesn’t mean you love me. Not in the way I need.

Please be honest about the way you really feel about me, I asked. He fell asleep. Still sleeps, I should wake him up, he wants to go to sports at lunch. But he also needs the rest. Tired mind doesn’t get better.
I’m still trying to figure out what I want and how I feel. I am so easily influenced by his moods. I think I should make condition for open marriage. That he gets help about sex needs from professional. I  want him to be able to control his urges and to understand what’s appropriate what’s not. I can’t worry that if I leave him with our daughter he will go watch porn in other room.  I don’t know how to bring it to him without upsetting him.

He just woke up. Down. He had a dream I left and he became crazy, being able to go to shops only at certain hours and stuff like that, speaking to father in English, and the name of next royal baby…

[pearlsw]

Hi desperate.wife,

Do you think he'll want to talk over these sex issues with a therapist? Will he follow through with this? Does he feel anything is amiss? ("off" or an issue)

Oh yes, this is all so much. It will take you time to make clear decisions. We're here!

take care, pearl.

[SunandMoon]

Hi desperate wife

I'm sorry you are in such a horrible situation. It must be very hard living like this, constantly moving around, and being apart from your family and support.

I hope you take the time to re-read the excellent advice pearls and WW have given on this thread.

I would think very carefully before agreeing to an open marriage. It could add a whole new level of dysfunction to your relationship and an even bigger mess to deal with.

 He says it would always be protected sex. Ideally, with one partner, and both would constantly get checked

Ideally with one partner? And if he developed feelings for that partner? With his BPD he could idealise her (or him?), love bomb, push you aside, bring their relationship problems into your marriage... .who knows where this would lead.

But if it is really going to be open marriage I think it would end up with divorce.

If you think it would end in divorce, why put yourself through that madness and hurt?

You need to think about what YOU want for your life and what aligns with your values, not his. Do you really want to let your life be controlled by the whims of a mentally ill person? Or do you want to control your life and set a healthy example for your child? At the moment, your daughter is only 3 years old and all this hasn't impacted her much yet but in another couple of years, it will.

[desperate.wife]

I’ve been avoiding my thread a bit. It has been few calm days. I didn’t want to read all the valid point you are making, to start thinking again.
 I pushed for conversation when we both were steady enough. I told I was willing to do this open marriage thing if it is the only way he can heal, but made clear it is not ok for me, I am not ready.
He speaks about general idea, and I need details. He doesn't want to talk about it. He says, right now he is not attracted to me. It might be medics. He doesn't know how he would feel about it in future.
I pointed out that he enjoyed sex with another women.
He answered he was not on that medic then. To which I said that he wasn’t on it two nights before he got in hospital, and already didn’t enjoy it with me.
It is clearly psychological. Maybe he is blocking me so it would be easier to justify the need of others. Anyhow. I said that divorce is ok. We can’t feel bad all the time. And if we need different things, we can just go different ways. After some silence, he said he wants family, he would get therapy for sex behaviours, maybe medications to reduce his needs, that he needs time to get well and that meanwhile he wouldn't do anything outside the family. If during that time one of us feels not good, we talk, if we can change it, we do, if no - we divorce. All the right things he said. Like sane responsible man. His voice was heavy. After, he left for few hours outside. In the middle of the night. In the morning, I was completely relaxed. He asked if I was happy. I said considering the situation, I am ok. He said he was not feeling good. I reminded him we can still end it all, I wouldn't think less of him, and our daughter wouldn't hate him.

We continued our day taking it easy. Having meals, cleaning around, playing with kid, going for a walk. He spent time in bed, coz he got his back blocked. 

It was relaxing day except for one thing: he couldn't pay in the shop with his card. Again, one week after getting payed, we have no money. Makes me angry. I asked how much we can afford this month. He gave me numbers, said we should have enough this month for everyday needs. And for few days in the shops he was spending, not being crazy, but not most economical shopping. Like we were used already. But now some adjustments has to be made. We haven’t even payed the rent this month... .He feels bad. And promised to let me do the shopping only. And give me all the cards. I do have some savings that would allow paying this month rent (in this country, in other it wold be 3 months’ rent... .), but I also feel I need my backup money just in case. I wouldn't hesitate for second if things were normal.

But now… On other hand, we need to pay the rent. He asked for advanced payment from his work. They won’t be happy. He is being away from work a lot lately.

So things are not perfect but I am calm. And trying to stay that way. Yesterday he offerd to tickle me, which makes me completely relaxed and well,mmm. But it is completely not sexual thing. Well he offered. I agreed. Felt nice, but he stopped. Said it was too soon. Clearly he has bigger issues with being with me. It was pretty innocent thing and he couldn’t go through. But I stayed calm. Didn’t get upset. I like when I react like that.

That course on meditation looks interesting. Reading other people’s experiences in it makes me want to commit to it. I want to happy and relaxed every day!

[desperate.wife]

Hi SunandMoon,

Everything you wrote here is so truth. Thank you, it helps to get realistic

I would think very carefully before agreeing to an open marriage. It could add a whole new level of dysfunction to your relationship and an even bigger mess to deal with.

Ideally with one partner? And if he developed feelings for that partner? With his BPD he could idealise her (or him?), love bomb, push you aside, bring their relationship problems into your marriage... .who knows where this would lead.

I know. I'm already not comfortable with his colleague that is bi and sexually free and shares hers stories with him. I feel like she makes him want these things more.  He says she is a friend that understands him. And texts with her a lot. And texts about mine reactions and she tells what I am feeling for him... .At some point it is nice she is trying to explain him, but she can't know why I do one thing or another and she is not psychologist. I ended up asking him to stop telling what she is writing and stop mentioning her name. Which actually drives me crazy, as he is still texting with her and I'm dying to know what about.
So yes, having one partner would be complicated. I would wander. And what if she (if it is she) gets pregnant? I always considered this only from safety side, one is less risk than many. Thank you for bringing all these questions to me. Made me easier to tell him I am still not ok about all this.

You need to think about what YOU want for your life and what aligns with your values, not his. Do you really want to let your life be controlled by the whims of a mentally ill person? Or do you want to control your life and set a healthy example for your child? At the moment, your daughter is only 3 years old and all this hasn't impacted her much yet but in another couple of years, it will.

I feel the same, that she would be ok now for the separation. But on the other hand, things started to be bad just 6 month ago. It is all new for both of us. These things takes time. I am not even sure how much he is ill and how much he is confused about what he is. It is a mix. His confusion is bringing out all the symptoms in worst way. And he is depressed. And he wants help. As long as it is like that, I want to try. But it is hard to forget that just one week ago he looked in my eyes and said those things. And  then he didn’t want help. He even forgot about it.

Meanwhile, I do everything to make sure she has as stable environment as possible. I want her to be independent, confident and creative. I play with her each time she asks (when possible), we read books together, she loves play with play doh, and paint, duplo. With that, she can spend hours. She invents games and can imagine that peace of plastic is a doctor. Today she removed soft colourful ball decoration from a blanket saying it's Pyjamasques - her heroes. She can play with the sugar bags in restaurant, gives them roles. Who need toys? In the shop, I want to buy more toys than she does. She choses one and sticks with it.  I made her befriend a neighbour kid, as she needed friends. We talk to family daily, we go for a walks and I am always available for hugs. Before falling asleep, we talk about the day. If I forget to do it, she would remind me On good times, she plays with dad. He teaches her chess. They would go to play football or to the zoo. We also try to spend time all three together. She needs us 3. I always respond to her feelings. If she is angry, I say it is ok to be angry, I understand it, but it is like that, and we have to accept it, it won’t change. If she is sad, we talk about it. Sometimes before falling asleep she would reflect on hers feeling, would ask me why was she angry, why friend was angry, why he said that, why she did that. We talk about all that. And I keep telling her how much I love her. And that dad loves her. And we will always will, no matter what. And that sometimes parents are tired and irritated, but she will always have us and everything will be fine.

But when we go to see my family, she is happy too. She has grandparents, aunt and cousins. She is super happy there. So if one more time i need to go through all the drama, or if one more time he offer the divorce, I might just say ok.

[Radcliff]

All of your updates are helping us to get to know you better, thanks.  I'm impressed with how you are working your way through a very difficult situation.  You are focusing on your own reactions and not driving yourself crazy trying to control him.  This is wise, but not easy!  pearlsw and SunandMoon are giving you excellent advice.  You talked in a couple of places about what he needs and how he might work through his problems rationally.  That would be wonderful if he does, but it's very possible he will continue to just do what he does, without taking responsibility for growing, which is why we're all encouraging you to make your own plans.  Even just in the last few days, I can see how your thinking is evolving.  You really are doing an amazing job in a tough circumstance. 

You said that an open marriage might be a pathway to a divorce 6 months from now.  Have you said this clearly to him?  If you are not sure about it, it might make sense to ask for more time to think about the open marriage idea.  If he sees open marriage as something he can play with, and have no consequences, he might look at it one way.  If he sees it as a path to losing you, he might look at it a different way.  The important thing is to take the time to figure out where your values will take you, and once you do that, clear communication can be good.  Then you must follow through with actions that align with your values, which sometimes involves very difficult choices.

WW

[desperate.wife]

Thank you, WW. All your insightful observations helps me to organise my thoughts. It is better than just writing a diary. Thank you very much for your time  .

 I'm impressed with how you are working your way through a very difficult situation.  You are focusing on your own reactions and not driving yourself crazy trying to control him.  

I don't want to control him. But I expect him to do things on his own, and when it is not happening, I am disappointed. I get my expectations when he is better hoping it is true. I need to free myself from this path I keep taking. Lower my expectations, organise my days as I can at the moment. To be with my daughter, finish unpacking, taking my pictures, reading and not concentrating on things I can't do, or haven't achieved yet. It is hard for me sometimes to do that.

You talked in a couple of places about what he needs and how he might work through his problems rationally.  That would be wonderful if he does, but it's very possible he will continue to just do what he does, without taking responsibility for growing, which is why we're all encouraging you to make your own plans.

I know... .I am not sure if he has what it takes to work with himself. There so much things he needs to improve. And he never did anything constructive to change what he didn't like. He just found out that all he considered real ant true was his condition. That all he thought he was, was just illness. Plus the sexuality thing that surfed out. It is not easy. And it is nice to see him acknowledging things. I don't know how he will manage it. So yes, I do need my plans. I can always go home. But just idea to stay with my parents. Brrrr. They are the best and everything, but living abroad for so long I don’t do everything the same, and anything longer than 2 weeks with them under one roof is a challenge. My mom makes dramas where’s there’s no and now she is worried sick about me, but I get tensed even when she ask how we are. I'd rather chat about the weather. No need additional drama now.  I checked how much he would have to pay for child's care. It would be enough to live comfortably in my country. It would be a start. So I feel assured I have an option. That is if he doesn't kill himself after we leave.

Even just in the last few days, I can see how your thinking is evolving.  You really are doing an amazing job in a tough circumstance.  

Thank you, writing here helps a lot. I am happy I found this place! It helps both: letting things out and reflect on them.
I was talking to my friend and it was great at the beginning, but then how much you can complain? She has stuff going too, and you need to talk about some nice things too. Besides I felt I had to fight to show how his condition is serious and not just imagined by doctors and that he can’t just think what he does bad and change. It was tiresome. So I didn't tell her he slept with someone else. Since I told he went to hospital, I didn't brought the subject back. She didin't ask. She asks how things are. I say fine. And tell her little nice things that happened. And my sister, while she is very understanding about BPD, she might be less understanding about sex things. She protects me. But then I want to protect him. It is not healthy for me. I also don’t want her to have any negativity against him in case we do make it together.
So I am grateful for opportunity to express myself here. Helps to get some structure in my mind

You said that an open marriage might be a pathway to a divorce 6 months from now.  Have you said this clearly to him?  If you are not sure about it, it might make sense to ask for more time to think about the open marriage idea.  If he sees open marriage as something he can play with, and have no consequences, he might look at it one way.  If he sees it as a path to losing you, he might look at it a different way.  The important thing is to take the time to figure out where your values will take you, and once you do that, clear communication can be good.  Then you must follow through with actions that align with your values, which sometimes involves very difficult choices.

WW

I told him how I felt, and he seemed to make his choice. For now. He stays family man and does everything he needs to be one. We’ll see how it works.

After yesterday’s session, lot of new things came to light. He lacks empathy. He needs limits in what he says to people and how, and when. They also consider limiting his rights to handling money. And put him in some therapy in hospital one afternoon per week. He also asked me if I feel manipulated by him.

Finally, he asked what therapy he is in. CBT with psychologist and psychoanalysis with psychiatric. And their job is to put him in uncomfortable situations so he learns. I don’t get it. He is constantly in uncomfortable situations, he needs tools to deal with them. Their strategy only brought him to hospital for wanting to kill himself 3d time in 6 month, where he slept with someone. He wrote to them about it and they were like, why you write us, it is your problem. He just asks for help. I don't know. It seems a bit strange for me. Even in the brochure they gave few month ago it is written first choice is DBT. CBT is not even mentioned in there. (I understand DBT was created from CBT). Is it best therapy for suicidal borderline? Has anyone has experience in this?

Another thing that bothers me, is that even they are talking about limiting his right in operating money they wouldn't talk to me about his condition. It affects me and our daughter. I have right to know what is going on. I don't ask to be in therapy with him. I ask doctor’s explanation about situation: he has this and this, we use that to make him better, we think this is better than that because of this and this, he takes this medics it might affect him like this or like that, if you notice smth tell us. He can’t be reliable now so you should do the things. Also there’s some things you can do to help him at this stage. Wouldn't be that the kind of conversation with any other kind of doctor?  If it were Alzheimer or schizophrenia, they wouldn't just let him be. And they are thinking of limiting his rights! He doesn't mind doctors telling me things. He is ok with that.

I am getting a bit upset. Anyone can tell me if I have right to talk to his doctor, or I am out of line here?

thankful,
desperate.wife

[Radcliff]

It sounds like the most stressful thing right now is that you are not able to talk openly with his doctors.  In some countries the doctors are less approachable than others, and in some countries they are very rigid about rules.  In those countries it's very nice when things are working well, but sometimes when they are not you feel like a fish swimming upstream, especially as an immigrant!

Do you speak the local language, or were you communicating in another language, like English?  You said that your husband is OK with you talking to the doctors.  In my country the patient can sign a form saying that someone else can talk to their doctors.  Does that work in the country that you are in?  If the doctors are not helpful, perhaps there is an administrative person in the hospital or medical office who can help you with such a form.

WW

[desperate.wife]

I think I may need to move to another board... .the divorce talk is back on table, and I don't have energy to fight it. He is depressed and has existential crises. So doctors say. And I don't know if trying to keep him I help or hurt... .It would be so complicated for our daughter. As we would be in different countries. Still don't know if this crises is related to BPD. Looks like doctors don't think so. They are leaving him to solve it himself. Therapy sessions will be once every two weeks from now on... .

I did say some things that might have him want divorce again so we would be better without him.

Can depressed person make clear decisions? He changes his mind every week, mostly he is afraid to lose the daughter. And I was not feeling well. Was not creating loving wife role. He says maybe we should try few month separation. I know if I go home, I won't come back.

[pearlsw]

I think I may need to move to another board... .the divorce talk is back on table, and I don't have energy to fight it. He is depressed and has existential crises. So doctors say. And I don't know if trying to keep him I help or hurt... .It would be so complicated for our daughter. As we would be in different countries. Still don't know if this crises is related to BPD. Looks like doctors don't think so. They are leaving him to solve it himself. Therapy sessions will be once every two weeks from now on... .

I did say some things that might have him want divorce again so we would be better without him.

Can depressed person make clear decisions? He changes his mind every week, mostly he is afraid to lose the daughter. And I was not feeling well. Was not creating loving wife role. He says maybe we should try few month separation. I know if I go home, I won't come back.

Hi desperate.wife,

Nice to hear from you!   Sorry you are having such a hard time of things!

You can start a new thread over on Conflicted if you like. You can include links to your posts here so people can more easily get up to speed on your story.

I hear ya. I have spent the last few years on this "are we gonna divorce or not?" ride, and most of the relationship on the break up ride. It's very painful and confusing. It feels real every time and it is so hard to know if you truly have a future or not.

I had a personal policy of not agreeing to a divorce if I could see he was dysregulating. There are some strict laws in the country I am in about divorce so he could talk about it all he wanted, but the cost and slow time frame made it impossible to do hastily. Now he is glad I did this, but at the time it was very stressful. I think I made the right choice though - he was also very depressed and not in a frame of mind to make such decisions in my opinion. I always said he could have his divorce, but it would have to be managed more slowly, carefully, and cooperatively, not in a panicked, freak out moment.

I won't ask a bunch of questions on this thread and will wait to see if you start a new one. Or, how about this, if you start a new one, come back and drop a link here please?

take care, pearl.

[desperate.wife]

Thank you, pearl

right now we are seriously considering me and baby going to the sea for few months. This way we would have space from each other, I would have space to figure out things on my own, not with the family around. I am not ready going to my country and just the thought of the sea makes me smile right now. It is all so fresh. And so real. I just don't wanna my kid see her parents sad. I don't know where you are taking your energy from to do this. Admire your strength.

[pearlsw]

right now we are seriously considering me and baby going to the sea for few months. This way we would have space from each other, I would have space to figure out things on my own, not with the family around.

Oh, thank you desperate.wife! I admire you too - you are very brave! These are not easy issues, but it's great we have each other to help make sense of things and face them together!  

Do you have a houseboat or something? A safe alternative place to live? I would dream of having time and space alone to think! That sounds super!

warmly, pearl.

[Radcliff]

It sounds like you are talking about separating from your husband for a few months and going to stay at a place near the ocean where you can rest, be happy, and feel stronger?  This sounds like a good idea.  The time away will help you to think clearly about what you want to do.

If you are separated and still working through things, feel free to stay here on Bettering as well.  You can choose where you are the most comfortable.

When do you think you would leave to begin your separation?

WW

[desperate.wife]

(I am posting this without having read it. I am sorry it might be messy and hard to understand, but I am too tired to correct it. If I don’t post it now, I will never will, snd I need to let it out.)
Well... .
Things are changing so fast. I can't keep track. I wrote a lot, but never posted, coz before I finished typing situation was changed. Then I was just too tired. Last few days I was completely down. I would just read sometimes others posts and think my situation is not nearly as bad, why do I feel so depressed.

Yes he said we should divorce, try separation at first. I went through all kind of feelings, not best ones, even though I agreed, but it is hard to let it go. He wanted to do grill that evening, he was in good mood, but I was getting more and more upset. We didn't. We decided to sleep in separate beds. But our daughter demanded to sleep on one of them. She knows. He came to bed all stinky and  he was watching smth on his phone with headsets on, but I could hear, I hate that in bed. Just by touching him, I started to cry. I left to sleep in kid’s room.

Next day he woke up with tears in his eyes. Later he came to the lake where we were and I saw the look on his face when he saw daughter running to him. He said he didn't want to miss this, let’s not hurry. We had nice day. We did grill.

But then I saw he is still talking to the colleague. He said she blocked him few days ago. And I said good, he doesn’t need unstable people in his life now. She blocked her because she slept with colleague now and my husband told she has a problem. She does. But it is not his place to say. Anyway. I really don’t like they talk. Coz she is very sexual active and goes both ways. It is not making it easier for him to stay monogamous and want family life. So I checked his phone when I found it unlocked. Day or two ago he was asking her if she and he could happen if he were single. All my good mood went away. He saw it. I found a way to ask him if he had feelings for her. If he wanted her. I said I really didn't want her in our lives if we were going to try. He denied any feelings. Nothing would happen between them... .But in the end he said it doesn’t depend only on him... .So if it depended only on him? He said. Yes. Then quickly added that he would want with any woman... .So we were going to try. We bought cheap tickets for me and my girl to go to my country for holidays with my family. We have planed to go all for first half of holidays, but then hospital, then money problem and we didn’t buy tickets in advance. Now they cost a fortune. 1500 for 3 people its too much. So on his holidays we planed to stay here and do what’s possible with tight budget go explore around get cheap airbnb, stay active. I got exited planning.

Next day was ok. We played video games, had good time. Connecting.

Day after he went to work for half day but stayed all day away. I asked if he changed his mind again. I was not feeling well all day. Like the world was pressing my shoulders. I was pissed he was having his smoking by the water and had to take care of the kid while feeling so low that could hardly get out of bed. She was fine, can play by herself, but that is not what I want for her. When he came back he said he didn't change his mind but haven't made it yet. He wanted to see how it goes. He said till end of august? But we won't even be here. We need more time to get things in normal order to see if it works. We decided till the end of the year. With talking things through if it is not write, but no talk about divorce till the end of the year. Coz I can't. We had sex. He said he wanted. Last 3 times he didn't enjoy and din't finish. And since then he kept saying he didn't want me. I did wanted but felt anxious of all those things above. So when we were at it I was eager, but he pushed me down to work on him and I understood that it will be one sided this time. I worked long. I enjoyed but got tired and didn't feel excitement, He seemed to be close but nop. than he pulled me and I thought he is going to be rough which hurts me, but then he slowed down. Right then I didn't feel like doing anything. But he didn't notice anything, and I didn't want to stop not to make him feel bad. I started to enjoy again bit then he stopped because of some distraction, and I thought ok so it is the end, I really didn't want to continue, but he pushed my had down and wouldn't let it go. I was feeling bad but he finished. Only the he noticed I was not ok. I explained it was like old times, when he was thinking about him self and it was too forced. And I know he can do better, we can do better. From January to mars we had great sex. He was caring, thinking about me, which made me want more. Till he stopped wanting me. I asked if he enjoyed it. He said yes till now. I said I told only we can talk about it and make it better. He said I was right but I saw he was down.

Tuesday he realised he had spent all avance already. a week till pay day. Hr got upset. He was afraid of going home. Of me. I am not scary person. He said that's the problem. I hit when he doesn't expect and I hit hard.  I am just communicating my worries... .And later he came back from outside where he smokes his stupid weed with no effect and laid down on bed. I came to him but smelled the smokes and said nicely in good mood, no bad feelings: you stink. He knows he does, usually he even takes shower and changes. But this time he got upset. He took it personally. Took shower and got into deep depression. And got angry. Because few months ago when he was not yet smoking, he was saying to my parents they were stinking. Repeatedly till it was not ok. I had to stop him: I do say to my ma parents they stink. They come back, they can't hug my baby immediately. But he went too far insisting. So I went on how he got upset over ___ing nothing. Then I Said I understand how little thing can put you in bad mood. It happens to me too. And there is nothing you can do. So I said we are fine. It will pass.

He was down till he got to see his therapists. While he was in therapy our daughter said she loved dad, and asked if I did. She then asked if I didn't want him to leave. When I said that to him he said: she knows
In therapy he got assignment to rate his values. I asked if he needed time for that. HE said no, it is not hard thing. He needs to provide for his family (sounded angry), if not love, then money (he added). I said that all he needs to provide is love. Sad look on his face. Anyhow, he was quite ok. It was his first day of holidays.

Yesterday we were supposed to go somewhere. Be active. He woke up depressed. Our home is depressed. It gets messier everyday. I don't care. I care, but I don't have energy to move. My teas and grains got invaded by food moth. I emptied cupboard. And worms where climbing everywhere. I was so demotivated I could just stand and watch at piles that need to be dealt with but couldn’t do anything. Feels like reflection of my soul: mess and worms. Anyway that morning I was quite ok and wanted to clean up. And I started, I threw away stuff and cleaned. Till he got the call. About old apartment. HE got upset. It is money again. He went completely down. I try to stay positive. He starts saying that we will be fine if we don’t need to pay that. I said we will still have to be careful with spending for next few months. He shouted on me to stop. I said so I stop, and nothing changes. He needs to get it that we can't spend like before now. He looked desperate and his emotion so intense that I was down immediately. Bad day. Didn't finish cleaning.

He is depressed and it is contagious. I don't feel good, I don't want to do anything. When he leaves I am upset But I don't want him to come back, coz I need no emotions. He is calm, just distant and depressed. And I would cry when I feel that he is down. It is just hopeless. I was siting in terrace with my tea today and was watching the rain, starting to feel relaxed. He came outside, little exchange and he went away to smoke in his corner away from windows. I said "oh I thought you came to be with me... ." He just shrug his shoulders and went away. My good mood vanished in seconds and tears filled my eyes. Why did I agree to those 6 month. It is going to be long long long. I am waiting till my holiday. I'd prefer holidays alone, but I have to think about my girl and she need family and she needs to practice my language. Our language. It is not fare she speaks his.

Meanwhile he tries, he cleaned up a bit, he is nice with her. But yesterday he said smth that upset me. We were by the lake, I asked him to play a bit on the shore with baby while I swim a bit. I did it with her but wanted a bit alone, to be able to relax more. He played fine. I couldn't relax fully, I still hear them, she still calls me to show smth, but it was nice. Later our neighbour showed up. The only friend she has here. With his dad. So we chatted, they played, and my husband couldn't smoke his stuff he rolled, then he offered to home as it was getting late but neighbour kid was not going yet and our daughter wanted to go to playground with them. I said go with papa as I was still in my swimming suit and all things scattered around. He whispered that I will pay. For what I ask? You had your swim and I have to go to playground now? So you can swim more?... .I didn't realise then, but five minutes later I was like pay for what? That you played with your daughter 10 minutes? That you go to playground with her? That I could swim alone for 10 minutes first time in a week? To be alone 10 minutes first time in a week. Ant not really alone, you were few metres away... .Instead of going home to prepare dinner I went back to the lake. Calmed down. Anyway, he was ok when he came back. Said it was fine, never mentioned paying anything. But today when he woke up with his face all gloomy sad tired I felt down again. He wanted his morning pleasure I helped him a bit but he was all really not fresh, I can’t stand it, that’s why I don't like it in the morning, because I can't even kiss him. Shower, brush firts then yes baby... .I told him not once, but he has 3 seconds memory... .So I was helping with hands when kid called me and I left. I didn't go back. I was relieved actually. I wanted today some pleasure myself but not with that depressed man.

We were both not ok today. But I can't show it. Coz it deepens his depression. He is like, but I did nothing why are you upset. But at this point, I am just emotionally tired and can't help being upset. He was trying to be ok, and helpful. I appreciate, I told him, thank you. I mean it, but I don't feel it.

Tomorrow grill by the lake planed, some shops, for basics. Will see.

I know in a few days, I will feel fine. I will have 2-4 days to get the mess hell out of my home. I'll have to do maximum till bad day's comes again. And then some holidays apart.

At some point in all this, I wrote a letter for future. I just said I am 95 percent sure he will sleep with his colleague (she sleeps with everyone), and 50 percent sure it will happen while we will be on holidays. I hope I will never need to send it.

[pearlsw]

Hi desperate.wife,

Sorry you are feeling so low! I know how hard it is to be with someone who is depressed. It can bring your own mood, and the whole household, down very low.

Do you want to talk to him more about this work colleague? You think he will sleep with her while you are away with your daughter? Do you think you can talk openly with him about this? What would you want to say to him about this?

wishing you peace, pearl.

[SunandMoon]

Hi desperate wife

This is a very hard situation you're dealing with and, having him home all the time, seems to be bringing up a lot of stressful situations every day.

It's difficult for you to practice self care in this situation, I understand, so I can only suggest that you try to minimise how much you react to his changing feelings and moods. Remember that a pwBPD can have many fleeting feelings and moods during the day and it's usually best to try to keep yourself stable and not add any fuel to the fire.

If you ignore most of the changing moods, he will probably forget too and the feelings will pass. Try as best as you can to go about the day looking after you and your daughter. Not easy I know.

Why has his psychologist cut his therapy down from weekly to every two weeks, do you know?
Are his therapists also aware of his sex addiction?

When do you go away on your own holiday with your daughter? I hope it's soon, as you obviously need some space and time to rest.

May I ask: was it his suggestion that you go away without him?

I just said I am 95 percent sure he will sleep with his colleague (she sleeps with everyone), and 50 percent sure it will happen while we will be on holidays. I hope I will never need to send it. 

I'm sure you realise it's wise to listen to your instincts. What do you think you will do if this happens?

Sorry for so many questions! This is a very complex situation and you have all our support in helping you work through it   

[desperate.wife]

 Hi pearl, hi SunandMoon,
Thank you for your time reading my mess

Hi desperate.wife,

Do you want to talk to him more about this work colleague? You think he will sleep with her while you are away with your daughter? Do you think you can talk openly with him about this? What would you want to say to him about this?

I don't think I want to talk about it more, I said all I wanted, it is up to him now. I know he doesn't think he would do that. He believes that. But as he said after sleeping with that other patient, he can't trust himself anymore. I guess I will ask him to keep his promise not sleep with anyone for now.

If you ignore most of the changing moods, he will probably forget too and the feelings will pass. Try as best as you can to go about the day looking after you and your daughter. Not easy I know.

Not easy, if possible at all. I need to learn to behave, and not tell everything I want when he is not ok. I try. If I see him down, I try to cheer him up. I would prepare him drink that he likes or some little things like that so he would feel welcomed and loved. But that’s when I see him sad, if there is even vague hostility or distance I can't help myself.

Why has his psychologist cut his therapy down from weekly to every two weeks, do you know?
Are his therapists also aware of his sex addiction?

I am not really sure why. They are two: psychologist and psychiatrist, and they decided to do sessions together so they are both up to speed, maybe that’s why. Also I think they believe that he only needs to figure out what he wants. But everyday he wants different things, and he really believes that it is it. I asked him if they are addressing sex issues, he said his psychiatrist thinks he already talks too much about sex. They are actually addressing other issues as manipulation, controlling people, lack of social skills, each time it is something new. But for me all the problems comes from his sexual needs. Either he is not telling me something or to them. Or they are not qualified enough to deal with this. I don't know. Or maybe they know what they are doing. Not rushing him. Just few weeks ago he asked me when I thought it was big break down, that he became this way. I said it was all the time, when we met, he had it. He is struggling in finding out all this. I was surprised that only 5 months after he found out about BPD and all others disorders, only now he starts to realise what’s going on. But it was mild. Till sex crises, it was odd but ok. He agreed to go to see sex therapist, and couple therapy. His doctors thinks it would be too much for him to go to 3 therapies. I agree as long as he goes to see sex therapist. For that he needs appointment with his GP first. It is not done yet, coz we can't pay now. But it is just an excuse. He could take appointment for later next week. Will see.

When do you go away on your own holiday with your daughter? I hope it's soon, as you obviously need some space and time to rest.

May I ask: was it his suggestion that you go away without him?

I'm sure you realise it's wise to listen to your instincts. What do you think you will do if this happens?

At the end of the month. My family had planned a week holiday by remote lake surrounded by forests and week by the sea. My husband wanted to go just by the lake, as it is real rest, you wake up and you don't need to do anything, just be there, swim, pick up mushrooms, enjoy sauna. Time stands still. No internet. And second half we were going to stay with my girl alone. He couldn't get more holidays. I have some administrative stuff to do and get fixed my teeth, I need more time there. But tickets got too expensive. And I was thinking to postpone going home for some time. But my mom asked if she keeps the room she booked for us, and I was feeling like we need time separated, but I was afraid to leave him alone depressed. I checked some tickets and found good enough offer. We could afford only one way. And get way back when he gets payed. But it is then that I brought the subject about colleague. And he assured he won't do anything, has no feelings. And that we can go alone. It is ok. I guess I was reassured. Coz I needed to know there will be home to come back. So it was me suggesting to go alone.
If it happens what I wrote in that letter I think, I would go to the other sea as we talked discussing separation. It would be for me to get time adjust in most relaxing place in the world. We don’t have home there, we would have to rent.

Sorry for so many questions! This is a very complex situation and you have all our support in helping you work through it   

Don't be sorry, questions helps me to stay focused

Yesterday I found some chemical stick for traces in bathroom or something like that. I gave to him to put away. He put under tv. I say it would be better to put in toilets or cellar. He answered: it makes sense in my mind. I say smiling: our minds works differently. He :  lot of people can say this. Exept people in hospital. They think the same.
It is so sad to hear this. Clearly, he is not ok. How you don't get depressed with all this. I get it. I need to learn to detach from his depression. And hope that it will pass. I don't know if I can. It would be easier if it was just that without all this sex noncence. Makes it harder to be trusting and understanding.

Other day he said that according to his doctors he was manipulating people to get things his way. He liked it. He got things he wanted. Being nice never works out. That’s who he was. It sounded like he is proud of that. I don't think I like it. But he is not that manipulative. Or am I missing something?
He is controlling. He like things his way. So do I. So we had balance. But he wants to control the way others has to react and feel. Instead of giving info about something, he just tells everyone what to do and gets angry if people have questions or don't obey. He knows better.

I had pretty good morning. Had some tears reading your answers here. Litter of antistress tea in terrace with my girl. Writing the answer. Starting to feel happy. Now he is up and cooking pancakes with her. He looks ok. He sleeped longer today. His face is nicer. We will see. I am tensed.

[desperate.wife]

I was going to write that it turned out to be great day given the circumstances. We had pancakes, some rain and thunder  (always makes me feel good), grill outside, he with our daughter made bana bread, we had some great time all 3 of us and he found some chess event that he wanted to attend but had no fuel. I gave him some money from food (manipulation? he became all upset that he can't afford to go there, and I just thought it is something that would cheer him up, and wanted to avoid depression showing up). He also said he'd like to go to sports. I reminded it will be Sunday. He said he'd still go to work on machines as there's no training. Then I went by the lake all by myself... .I felt good again. As it was rainy day, there was nobody. And evening sun was there and view was great. I relaxed and got thinking. I felt that my few happy days are coming. I thought that maybe we all should go tomorrow. It would be good opportunity for family tripo. He is going anyway. And we haven't been there. Event would be just afternoon, so we could spent all morning exploring. I came back home without them noticing me, took shower and then he asked were was I. I sent a picture. Me with towel in the living room. He: what’s with the picture. And like discussed face. I didn't get. Maybe it was too sexy... I felt upset but let it go. Then he got upset when our girl started singing in my language happy birthday to her cousin. Well he got upset that I encouraged it. He: why are you against me. Angrily. I am sorry, but the hell. It was fun and he he asked to say it in his language and she did. But he was angry on me. I told him it was bs, I did nothing wrong, it was fun and everyone would get it. It is his mind that created the problem. Felt like crying. All the good that lake did, vanished like that. But I hold myself together. Prepared bath for baby and then I asked how he was. He said he got upset because he forgot his morning pill. He was upset that he can't go a day without a pill without feeling bad. And he apologised. Then a bit later I brought the idea about family trip tomorrow. The reaction was: but what about my sports? I wouldn't be able to go then... .What can I say. His choice. I felt upset. I don't even know why. Because we were in ok moods and I thought we could spend some quality time together... .I felt like crying again. Hard to breath. But hold myself together and played with girl in bath. It was nice. Then he put her to sleep on her demand, and I came to write. Now I asked him what he wants to do. He: Take too much pills?

I am not strong enough. I don't know how to react. I feel bad again. He: I wont do it, you know? I just need to take morning pills and I will be fine.

So great day, not so good evening.

Oh something I remembered. He said it could be prostitutes, not random or chosen people, so no feelings attached. It is apparently legal here, so they are checked. I dismissed the idea immediately. I suck at validation. It makes sense in his head. For me it is the same. That's when he agreed to see sex therapist.

[desperate.wife]

I was shocked, actually, about his reaction. It is new to me. I am afraid that his BPD behaviour is getting worst. He never accused me like that before. I don't recall. I am worried.

[Radcliff]

I was shocked, actually, about his reaction. It is new to me. I am afraid that his BPD behaviour is getting worst. He never accused me like that before. I don't recall. I am worried.

I am sorry we are not keeping up with your thread!  What were you shocked by?

It's been a few days.  How are things going now?

WW