what do I do

[Aussie mumma]

We had our grandaughter over last night... I assumed the stay-over was due to her being grounded for a week... .as our BPD dd saw foundation make-up on her face... after the evening meal we were chatting on the lounge... telling us she's going up to the top classes next yr in most of her subjects... proud grandparents   ... .then gd mention how her mum woke her one night to ask to borrow her mobile phone... roughly 2am in the morning... the next thing she heard was her mum driving out... gd got up to see what was up... mum left note on table... saying friends needed her help... .hopefully be back soon... .dd left her mobile on the bench... gd  looked at messages in dd phone... .(my dd goes through gd's phone every few days) for a clue as to where she went at such a time... .she read  4-5 all from dd's lover which were pretty graphic... which made her sick... .the next morning she asked her mum why she went out so late/early... .dd told a different story... gd said she's fed up with her mums behaviour &  doesnt care when dd goes off... .When I explained dd's behaviour is due to BPD and she can't help what she does at times... gd said sometime she feels like contacting doc's-welfare agency to report her mum... then move in with us... .it killed me to say... dd is still your mum and your only 14yrs old... .plus our youngest son is living with dd & gd... he's staying until gd is old enough to go out on her own... I really just wanted to cuddle gd and tell her all will be okay but I can't. gd also wants to tell her mum about a guy she's really keen on & he's keen also... we know the family well... but dd will go off big time when she finds out... gd & I had the sex talk last night and she knows she's nowhere near ready for that... he also knows how we feel concerning that ... god what do I do... .I'am glad that gd can speak to me and I will never betray her trust... I'm so tired  so I bid all a goodnight.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[crazedncrazymom]

Sounds like you're going through a lot.  It's sad to see the kids get affected by a parents mental issues.  Is it possible for gd to move in with you for a bit?  Maybe you can start dropping hints to DD about how you would like to have her come stay with you and see how that goes.  If not, just keep on being there for gd.  Sounds like you are doing a great job.  Just the fact that she can come to you and talk to you about bf type things means the world to her. 

[vivekananda]

Hi aussie mumma,

cracedncrazy had a good idea there. Perhaps there could be more stay overs on a regular basis. Or longer stay overs... .

would that help?

Vivek    

[qcarolr]

aussie momma - you are such a great grandma   It is so hard sometimes to know how to strike the best balance for our kids and gkids. How does it work for you youngest son to live with his sis? This sounds like a great thing to support a healthier home for your gd also.

I so understand the pain of telling a gd that her mom is her mom, even when she is not acting like one. And that her mom does care for her even when she doesn't know how to show that. And how very much you and the others in her family are there for her in every way possible. You are doing all these things for her.

I am dreading the sex talk with my gd7 one day - hoping her mom is in her life at that time in a mature way to be involved in this. Right now my DD26 and gd7 live with dh and I. And things are going OK the past few months. I have learned to stop defending myself when she shifts blame onto me - I am mostly quiet. And I am the primary parent for gd since she was a baby. So my situation is a little different. But OH - do I get tired sometimes and wish to be 'just a grandma'.

Hang in there - keep doing what you are doing.

qcr  

[Aussie mumma]

Thanks girls... qcarolr... I feel your pain... I to stay quite when dd starts... as answering back only leads to more yelling and swearing... I don't have her living with us... .she has done in the past... but she has said she'd never move back in... she likes her independence... .meaning she can continue her affair as she lives out on a samll farm about 6ks from us... .dd beleives she has no health issues be it physical or mental... for me to even hint at a mental health problem... shocking... I love both these girls but one I can't help but I'll make damn sure the other is being cared for... .

 cracedncrazy... When dd was drinking heavily... she had numerous accidents... spent time in lock-up... docs was called and  I spoke to them... and the police... ( all this occurred in front of gd who was 4-8) I actually said to dd if she keeps doing what she was doing ... I would take gd of her until she got her act together... her reply was if I did that she would have no reason to exist... I've also mentioned this to gd... she feels as much as she'd love to move in with us... "who would look after mum"... we hope to see more of gd during the holidays ... .she knows she only need call and both dh & I would get there in 3-5minutes... .dh's brother also lives across the road from them... .so she knows she can go there also... .our son lives with them... so she has family around her ... Gd wants to tell her mum about the bf... she's 14 1/2  he's 17... she knows dd will go off big time... but I said do you want dd to find out from someone else... so she asked me to ask you girls what you all think ... .should she tell dd... .knowing dd will go balistic  

[Thursday]

ausssiemom,

You asked,

what do I do?

and I think you are doing so, so much! And with good intentions too.

Your grand daughter at 14-1/2 and the boyfriend is 17? Sorry to focus on this when your post is about your DD/GD, HOWEVER, when my nonDD (now 27) was 14 I allowed her to have a 17 year old boyfriend. He was from her school. We kept them supervised, didn't allow her to go out in a car with him, thought we were keeping them from being alone  yet somehow they managed to "get together" and  a few months afterwards he dumped her. While she was sobbing over the loss of him (he liked another girl) she revealed to me that they had sex- thankfully she insisted that they use protection and even more thankfully she didn't like it and didn't let it happen again. (they got together at an after school church function-yes, I said a church function (where they stole away and found a private place)... .I learned then that sometimes even responsible adults will not keep a correctly keen eye on your kid for you).

Sometimes a good looking, popular senior class boy is too hard to say no to especially when the girl is curious at all about what he is pushing for. So, have a talk with your GD AND give her some condoms, whilst telling her your don't approve. It's hard but necessary.

Good luck and sorry to be so scary about the bf... .I figure I would want someone to say something to me if my DD was still a teen. In fact a few months ago my neice told me and DD that her 14 yo daughter is interested in a senior boy... .and my DD told her about her own experience. My neice remembered my DD from that age, how responsible and adult she was... .kinda like her own DD. She texted me a few days ago that she had found condoms in her DDs purse- she searched based on what my DD had told her. They had not had the opportunity yet but plans were in place.

Sorry to have gone on and on about this. My DD is a wonderful person, she was a wonderful teen as well. However, sex is very compelling to a teenager. So is a handsome fella... .

thursday

[Aussie mumma]

Thanks Thursday... that is my worry... that my gd is even talking about sex is scary... .thats why I spoke to her... letting her know the repercussions of having sex at her age... her mother... my bp dd has glorified sex saying how wonderful it is etc etc... so I felt gd should know the ramifications on having sex at such a young age... .I did tell gd that i didn't approve and told the bf through gd that he was not to think about sex for quite some time... study at this time is more important ... .I'm still coming to terms with dd's BPD and hopefully can help our gd through this stage... wish me luck  

[vivekananda]

You (gd) asked should she tell her mum?

I think yes, she should. Not only would it be hard if your dd learnt it from someone else. Or she learnt that you knew and she didn't. But, your gd should also accept responsibility for her decisions... .her mother should know who her boyfriends are, your gd should accept the consequences for her decisions - that's what becoming and adult is about... .

Vivek  

[Aussie mumma]

Vivek    I told my gd she should tell dd... for all the reasons you mention... .I'm not 100% on the fact the bf is 17... .she doesn't like the way her mother behaves... and knows dd has a bad reputation... .I worry that gd may think if mum can do what she does why can't I... .We've spoken on this issue... .and gd assures me she will never be like dd... I do believe dd should know whats going on in her daughters life instead of concentrating on herself all the time... .she visited this afternoon... to return the money I loaned her... .not only has dd stopped working at the hotel... .she said she was getting to aggressive with people... .she saw her boss from the Bristo where she works and asked why she wasn't invited to the Bristro xmas party... so now she feels quite left out... .waiting for another outburst... which is due... thank god for you people... as I can now react differently when these episodes occur   

[vivekananda]

you are a good mum and a good grandma 

Wasn't it good that she returned the money you loaned her? My goodness if my dd returned money to me, I think they'd have to rush me to emergency, the shock would be too much! 

Vivek  

[Aussie mumma]

Vivek ... .I don't feel like a good mum at present... more a very tired mum... .yes I must admit I was surprised by the money being remibursed... I wish I could sit and talk budgets with dd... .but I know this would come accross a me interferring ... .so I ask does dd plan on looking for further work... dd's reply "don't stress mum... it's undercontrol"... yeah ok!

Contacted gd... told her she should tell her mum... re bf... "yes I will very soon" also said she should do this when someone is close by... in case she needs assistance... thanks again Vivek  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[vivekananda]

I do so understand... .I think I am lucky I am not a grandma.

I think I am too fearful to ask if my dd will be looking for work... .I can only validate at this stage - not even SET... .

You may be tired, but you're doing the right thing aussie mumma 


Vivek  

[Aussie mumma]

I won't make the statement... that dd... hasn't caused any upsets for a while... gd & I had morning tea with my friend... santa visited the cafe... granmd can'y miss a photo op... so santa agreed gd could sit behind the wheel of his red MG sports car... .beautiful shots were taken... then grandma had the pleasure of sitting in a hair salon for 2hrs... .followed by lunch... then dd came by and wasn't to pleased that I bought hair chalk... .girls put this chalk on the ends of their hair... .I figured no problems with this as sje's done this before... .but dd went of ... saying gd looked like white trash... and how could she do something like this without informing her... I stepped in apologised for buying the product and mentioned dd actually painted her own hair hot pink when she was younger... can't recall that... by this stage gd is in tears... dd said there will be further discussions tomorrow... gd  is staying the night with me... .dd leant in to hug gd goodbye... gd backs away from dd... who says so thats the way it is... you don't want me to hug you... what was gd supposed to do hug her mum after she'd just been told she looks like a white trash s... t   my heart breaks for this gorgeous girl... .I was so angry after dd left I sent her a message asking that she please not say what she did to gd as she 's at a crucial age and will take on board what her mum says... didn't go down to well... " grant me the serenity... I need it "  

[vivekananda]

Well, what a shame to have everything going well, then to lose it... .ah well, is this an opportunity to try to mend the situation?

Would it be appropriate to sms dd and say: "I want to say sorry. You must feel I undermined your authority as a mum. I made a mistake I should have contacted you first to ask your advice re the chalk. I won't do that again. Please accept my apology."

In a normal relationship what you did would have been no problem, but your dd is fragile and to validate her feelings will only help. To say sorry is - I have found based on my experience - the easiest thing to do, as soon as you begin to stop thinking about winning and losing an argument and begin to think about how to move forward. I learnt to do it as a teacher when all these darned difficult parents came in to complain about something or other - and it wasn't my fault - but the effect of what I did caused upset. Furthermore, with practice I easily learnt to feel sorry too and be authentic. After all it 'wasn't about me and my needs'. It is only ego that has us hold onto the need to feel 'right'.

good luck aussie mama,

Vivek   

[qcarolr]

aussie momma - what is the age of your gd again? It is a fine line to balance what seems best to you for gd, what feels rational and right to you, and what feelings your DD has about being the mom. I have so struggled with this in a similar situation with my DD26 and gd7.

It has taken a lot of learning and changing within me to stop making things worse in these relationships. And lots of reading over and over about validation and practicing in all my r/s with everyone. It has taken the longest to be able to practice validating DD's feelings and values - while finding ways to preserve my values around what is best for my precious gd. And to complicate things dh and I have legal custody of gd since she was baby, and DD is now living in our home.

I have to let go of so many expectations. Staying quiet when I want to text, call or approach her in the house with my rational defenses of the why's. So much good comes from not defending my position. There are ways to say "I am sorry you were not included in this choice, I will do my best to remember to contact you next time". This can give respect to D's place as the mom, especially when gd is present. It can difuse the situation in that moment. This has so helped my gd. She gets mixed up in the conflicts with DD - loudness ensues - nothing is solved. And she is young and loves both of us - and I just contributed to increased fear and anxiety about being with her mom.

Things are so much better as I have built a healthier r/s with my DD. And this in turn has helped ease gd's anxeity and restored a healthier r/s with her mom. And I can speak to gd in private about how her mom loves her and has times when it is hard for her to show this love - when her mom's needs get in the way of her understanding gd's needs. And sometimes grandma gets this mixed up too. By modeling this taking my share of responsibility for a distressing situation, leaving DD's share for her to figure out, and attempting to make things better with DD - this has helped gd open up to me about many conflicts she has - at school, with friends, as well as with her feelings about her mom.

Hope some of this makes sense to you. I found so much helpful info in "Overcoming BPD", Valarie Porr and "I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better" by Lunbergs in learning what validation is really all about and practical suggestions for validating phrases and quesitons.

Let us know how things are going.

qcr  

[Aussie mumma]

Vivek  & qcarolr... Gd is 14 1/2 yrs old... .dd has dyed gd's hair black... put red streaks through her hair... then hot pink streaks all  during the past 18mths... .to be honest neither  of us thought there would be an issue... .but dd said she was having a stressful week with her boss & work... .Yes I did apologise and said  that in future if gd is in my company... and wants something... I will contact my dd... to ask what she thinks... I spoke calmy at all times... dd would not accept my apology and said gd should have known better... .and ask would mum allow this... .then continued to lecture gd on how she has bought her up to be respectable both in her dress sense and her behaviour... .i  finished by saying... it will not be repeated again... and permission will be sought in future... i tried to contact gd by sms message & calling but when she picked up dd to her to hang up the phone now... I'am reading the overcoming BPD... almost at dbt chapter... will keep reading

[vivekananda]

aussie mumma you're a hero! You have done so well. don't worry about dd's response this time. Their responses will go up and down depending on what mood they are in. Look to the long term with your dd. In long term terms, you worked really well.

You need to work on that relationship with your dd, so your gd can have you in her life. Allow time to settle things down and then pull up your socks and start again. After an 'episode' you need to allow the dust to settle a little. Let your gd know and help her understand that in times of 'crisis' to lie low and try not to stir things up but to wait for things to settle.

I believe that would be the best way to see it all. BPD is a rollercoaster at times, up and down and all over the place.

Cheers,

Vivek    

ps Valerie Porr is so good for us.

[Aussie mumma]

Thanks Vivek ... I'am far from being a hero... I'm the same as  other folk who post on this board... I just wish dd would seek help ... so she can be kind of happy... .I realise that my once stunning blonde... is here physically but not mentally... I know when dd settles... .she'll come to visit... this normally takes a couple of wks... .dd has spoken to me regarding how a few of her wrk mates are treating her... so I think this is what upset her... .I can see the signs that dd is near to expolding... so i warn my son & gd not to argue with her as she'll tear into them... .dd has always said no matter if she doesn't speak to either dh or myself she will never stop gd from visiting us... .my son has bought gd over for visits before... .its very sad but dd has driven her most of the family away... .besides  younger son who lives with them... I'm the one she speaks/visits/messages the most... I live in hope that one day she will seek  medical  help... .but dont expect it as "dd says their is nothing wrong with her... &  she's insulted by me suggesting otherwise"... .   merry christmas to you

thanks fro listening to my rantings haha

[vivekananda]

hey aussie mumma, you can vent here anytime!

Now, when I first got to this place I used to also say like you, I wish she would get help, i wish she would do DBT... .all that sort of stuff. slowly bit by bit with help from my friends here, It was pointed out to me to stop waiting for her to change, stop hoping for her to change. She was an adult, not my responsibility... .etc etc. I couldn't understand how these others couldn't see what I saw. Now I know how much wiser they were than I was.

When I stopped hoping for that, I was more freed up to focus on changing myself. And that's what I have done. I am pleased to say that because I stopped worrying about what she should do and started to think about what I should do, it slowly started to get better.

So, here it begins for you aussie mumma, stop worrying about treatment for your dd - you can do nothing about it. Put your energies into changing yourself. Read up, practice validation and keep on posting with us here. You can rant and I'll tell you what to do! 

Thinking of you this Xmas     


ya gotta love the icons 

[vivekananda]

I think though aussie mumma that my friends here were much more gentle than I was when they gave advice. I think I must have been ranting so vividly back then that they would have been scared to be so direct. I hope I wasn't too blunt with you... .

best wishes,

Vivek    

[Aussie mumma]

Vivek    . no you weren't blunt... .I came to the same conclussion after chatting with dh... .his words were the same as yours... dd is an adult... she's can make her own choices etc etc... be they correct/wrong...   so yes I'll keep reading the books I have ... which hopefully will teach me how to cope with dd when she's not happy...

love  aussie mumma  

 have a great xmas... .I'm kinda looking forward to a quite day...

icons are way cute

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[vivekananda]

My Xmas starts today with Boxing Day... .so I will be i intermittent contact for a while. Off to the beach for a little holiday - it's summer here 

You keep on posting aussie mumma - the support we get from each other is incredible and we learn so much through our discussions. I am glad you found us.

Merry Xmas and a safe and peaceful 2013,

enjoy your quiet day 

[vivekananda]

ps you dh is a wise man 

viv   

[qcarolr]

hey aussie mumma, you can vent here anytime!

Now, when I first got to this place I used to also say like you, I wish she would get help, i wish she would do DBT... .all that sort of stuff. slowly bit by bit with help from my friends here, It was pointed out to me to stop waiting for her to change, stop hoping for her to change. She was an adult, not my responsibility... .etc etc. I couldn't understand how these others couldn't see what I saw. Now I know how much wiser they were than I was.

When I stopped hoping for that, I was more freed up to focus on changing myself. And that's what I have done. I am pleased to say that because I stopped worrying about what she should do and started to think about what I should do, it slowly started to get better.

So, here it begins for you aussie mumma, stop worrying about treatment for your dd - you can do nothing about it. Put your energies into changing yourself. Read up, practice validation and keep on posting with us here. You can rant and I'll tell you what to do! 

Thinking of you this Xmas     


ya gotta love the icons 

Vivek  - you have put it so clearly   This is exactly the process I have gone through. It seems to have taken me a long time though to get to the 'get better' part. I was very resistent to letting go of my need to feel in  control of everyone and everything in my life. The support here seems much more clear to me now than it was 3 years ago - at least for we parents with adult kids. Vivek  - I like your stlye

aussie mum - be kind to yourself. let us know how things are going.

qcr  

[vivekananda]

gee qcr thanks, you were one of the ones who asked me questions to challenge my thinking - oh so gently - I remember it so well. I just wanted to argue and say, yes but... .and I think I did  . You have guided me so kindly, thank you.

And those others out there too who helped me understand and challenged my prejudices, thank you.

You see Aussie mumma, we have a wealth of loving kindness just for us here - some more gentle than others 

Vivek  wishes you a great Xmas 

[Aussie mumma]

Vivek  & qcarolr... I'm learning quite a lot from you & this site... obviously it will be a long road... as dd will continue to have ups & downs... I must admit I know I don't worry so much about dd... I tend to be more concerned with my gd... after an argument with dd on frid... she decided to stay the night at bf's house... thankfully we know the family very well but I was stunned to find this out... I had an inkling she may do this... while we were going to visit my mum... I texted gd... advising that wasn't a good idea... but got no reply... .when I finally got a reply she told me she did stay over... and she was telling her mum that afternoon about the bf... evidently dd didn't hit the roof... like we all expected... and has even invited the bf to spend the night nxt wk end... I presume dd had a change of heart as our son & myself both spoke to dd regarding how she speaks /yells at gd and there is a chance that if she keeps it up ... you'll succeed in drivng her daughter away ... i've spoken to our gd... who is quite happy now... about sex... and that  just because her mum knows doesn't mean thats an option... her reply was no not yet... but mum said 15 is ok... .heaven help me hehe...

[qcarolr]

... i've spoken to our gd... who is quite happy now... about sex... and that  just because her mum knows doesn't mean thats an option... her reply was no not yet... but mum said 15 is ok... .heaven help me hehe...

Has gd been to a clinic or doc for a 'teen checkup' that includes birth control and STD info? Abstinance is hard with mom's 'permission' and peers not following that advice. Better to be prepared than sick or pregnant. I have taken DD to appts for all of the above over the years - saying 'yes' or 'no' was so far out of my control    

Just some shared 'grandmotherly advice'. Not looking forward to this day with my gd7. For now she does the whole gag thing   whenever I give dh a little kiss even. If only that would last.

qcr  

[Aussie mumma]

qcarolr  your tip on getting all the info gd will need is the best solution at present... as dd has different ideas... I still think 14 1/2 is too young... but as we've said to gd you can say no often but one day you'll say yes & you need to be prepared... honestly when I read some of the posts on these boards and read what some mothers, fathers partners etc... are going through with their BPD loved one... I feel our situation is no where near as troubled...

[Aussie mumma]

qcarolr  

my gd informed her mum -dwBPD-about her bf... surprisingly dd didn't go balistic... instead invited him over for the night... dh & myself weren't to impressed with this  ... as the bf spent the night on gd's couch in her bedroom... .  while gd was in the bed... I asked dd whether this was appropriate given their ages... I was told "mum I trust them... and the door will be opened all night"   ...   am I right in feeling this is inappropiate ... .  my folks and dh's folks watched us like hawks... but we managed to get pregnant... .  now they have supervised sleep over at each other's houses... .  I did get a load of info on birth control... std's... pregnancy... you name it I got it... .  i also wanted to show photos of what std's can do to you... but they grossed me out... looking at them   where gd had 16-17 to think about sex... now dd has said 15 is okay... .  grrrrr

$&#%@... shall attempt to chat with gd asap

[Aussie mumma]

going crazy thinking how to help both BPD dd & gd... .  dd isn't working at the hotel as she was getting to aggressive with customers,,but she'll tell us she needs to distance herself from that enviroment... .  she walked out of the restraurant she was working in ... .  so she's had no work,,& her family support money has been cut... yet she still has money... (for pot)thankfully food is being bought... we'll think the bf is still paying her a wage... ... she's just mentioned she's accepted a cleaning job at the hotel... go figure... I worry as things seem to be going from bad to worse with dd... .    I try to get her to have a physical and she replies when she has time... .  her weight is dreadful... her parenting skills are weird to say the least... gd had bf over... while having dinner dd informed both gd & the bf... there will be no sex till gd is 15ys... .  YIKES .then dd allowed them to sleep in same room ... gd on bed... bf on sofa... YEAH he's going to stay there.  

I've spoken to gd regarding the sex age limit... can you at least wait till your 16... or better yet 18... unrealistic I think... and the sleeping in the same room is really pushing the boundries... i don't want gd to make a major mistake... I don't know  

thats it for today