Two Years Out, This Is Where We Are

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

For almost 5 months, she lived a Double life with the bf who is now her H and the step-dad to our children. The age difference between us is close to the age difference between him and S5. She left coming up on two years ago. We also have D3.

S5 got written up this week for biting another kid in kindergarten on the head. He told the teacher and the principal it was because he was angry at Mommy for being mad at him in the morning, Monday. Two years of Sunday school, pre-school and transitional kindergarten, and this is the first incident. The school recommended their counseling services. We're considering it.

The other night, I forgot S5's homework at my house, so I drove it to her place. She didn't answer, so I called her H, first time. He came down to get the homework, so I asked him about an incident last Sunday which the kids' mom related to me. S5 got angry and ran off down the street. Mom had to sprint after him. Hermit grandma took away his toy because it was time to eat. If the kids don't eat on time, they will get sick or die (naturally). Part of this anxiety is cultural, part of it Hermit GM. I told the OM how I would have handled it: he doesn't want to eat, then ok. You get home at 10 PM and he whines about food, you tell him why. He gets bread and maybe some milk and then goes to bed. Accountability. He's almost 6. That's how I would do it.

Still, I tell S5 all of the time, "there's a time to play, eat, dress, do homework, etc... ." and he needs to abide by this. What drove me nuts is that there had to be 6-7 adults there and no one could handle a 5 year old. S5 got mad and hit his SD, who picked him up and told him not to do that, but validating. My Ex told him that she was the only one to discipline the kids (I see this as a problem in their household, but I'm not offering my opinion... .yet)... I asked him what his overall take on it was, and he said,."I think S5 felt that no one was listening to him." Thank you! Words f wisdom from the adulterous interloper. Strange times indeed. He started asking how to better bond with the kids. I so bit my tongue yet offered him some tips, more about validating them and asserting firm and consistent boundaries. A bit more complicated than what you thought you signed up for, eh punk?

The kids' mom said that she validated him once she caught up to our son, but triggered him the next morning after which he bit the kid on the head. I resisted telling S5, "the next time you do that Buddy, say 'BRAAINS!'" I so want to.

Yesterday, I told their mom I was going shopping for more school uniforms. She asked if she could go with us today. I said "sure." Me=Idiot.

Naw. It's been two years, right? The only drama centers around the kids from time-to-time, and as I think my T pointed out, all of the kid incidents happen on her side. My buddy at work, divorced 15 years ago from a very BPD Ex (bankruptcy, assault, the works), said, "You say No, Turkish. Boundaries!" I said that I already told her ok. He shook his head.

This morning went ok. We shopped for clothes. The kids wanted Happy Meals. At lunch, S5 started complaining that he didn't like how the ketchup looked on his burger. He's never acted like that with me... He loves ketchup. She wiped it clean with a napkin. He was satisfied. I grinned/smirked at her, "Mexican mom? I'd let him eat it as is." She kind of smiled back. She knows. I didn't say it it a mean tone, but light-heartedly.

It was a good morning. She looked good, and has radically changed her hairstyle and look from the past two years. I kept thinking what some of us think here, "was it me? What didn't I do which was good enough to lose him/her?" Then I thought, "she would often dysregulate about something as simple as going to this mall 2 miles from our house," and "though I wasn't there, her lack of emotional skills triggered our boy to aggressiveness this past week. Two months ago, he told his mom that he wished she would run into the street, get hit by a car and die."

I struggle between missing her, and missing the idea of her. As we loaded the kids into my car, she thanked me and said "so how are you doing?" Really? Now? A far cry from when she was living with us and she spied my in my chair, staring shell-shocked, she in the throes of leading a double life from our home, "what's wrong?"

I felt depressed, looked at her sideways, said "I'm ok," and shrugged. In her way, she knows it's hard for me. Later, she texted me, thanking me for "allowing me to go shopping with you... .if you ever want to talk or have me watch the kids, let me know."

I'm a single parent when I have the kids. Short of The Spanish Inquisition, I don't need help. The "if you ever want to talk" verbiage is interesting though. I thought of several replies, most of them mean, so I didn't respond, even BIFF.

I hadn't seen the T in a while, but saw him last week to get his take on a Family drawing S5 did for school. He drew us as a nuclear family, with his SD off to the side, with claws like a monster. My T said, "you're still angry." Yes. And whatever I feel doesn't change a thing. Then he went Christian n me: "even Jesus was kind to Judas at The Last Supper." So, too, in the garden when the romans arrested him. Hyperbole? Yes. However, my Ex's betrayal was thrown in my face night after night, day after day, for four months while she lived her double life. That often the kids would ask, "where's Mommy?" Was more heartbreaking.

So I take it as a testament to my detachment that we can sometimes hang out. Despite it all, as my T says, "there's nothing wrong with being kind."

I'm really trying... .

[Turkish]

For almost 5 months, she lived a Double life with the bf who is now her H and the step-dad to our children. The age difference between us is close to the age difference between him and S5. She left coming up on two years ago. We also have D3.

S5 got written up this week for biting another kid in kindergarten on the head. He told the teacher and the principal it was because he was angry at Mommy for being mad at him in the morning, Monday. Two years of Sunday school, pre-school and transitional kindergarten, and this is the first incident. The school recommended their counseling services. We're considering it.

The other night, I forgot S5's homework at my house, so I drove it to her place. She didn't answer, so I called her H, first time. He came down to get the homework, so I asked him about an incident last Sunday which the kids' mom related to me. S5 got angry and ran off down the street. Mom had to sprint after him. Hermit grandma took away his toy because it was time to eat. If the kids don't eat on time, they will get sick or die (naturally). Part of this anxiety is cultural, part of it Hermit GM. I told the OM how I would have handled it: he doesn't want to eat, then ok. You get home at 10 PM and he whines about food, you tell him why. He gets bread and maybe some milk and then goes to bed. Accountability. He's almost 6. That's how I would do it.

Still, I tell S5 all of the time, "there's a time to play, eat, dress, do homework, etc... ." and he needs to abide by this. What drove me nuts is that there had to be 6-7 adults there and no one could handle a 5 year old. S5 got mad and hit his SD, who picked him up and told him not to do that, but validating. My Ex told him that she was the only one to discipline the kids (I see this as a problem in their household, but I'm not offering my opinion... .yet)... I asked him what his overall take on it was, and he said,."I think S5 felt that no one was listening to him." Thank you! Words f wisdom from the adulterous interloper. Strange times indeed. He started asking how to better bond with the kids. I so bit my tongue yet offered him some tips, more about validating them and asserting firm and consistent boundaries. A bit more complicated than what you thought you signed up for, eh punk?

The kids' mom said that she validated him once she caught up to our son, but triggered him the next morning after which he bit the kid on the head. I resisted telling S5, "the next time you do that Buddy, say 'BRAAINS!'" I so want to.

Yesterday, I told their mom I was going shopping for more school uniforms. She asked if she could go with us today. I said "sure." Me=Idiot.

Naw. It's been two years, right? The only drama centers around the kids from time-to-time, and as I think my T pointed out, all of the kid incidents happen on her side. My buddy at work, divorced 15 years ago from a very BPD Ex (bankruptcy, assault, the works), said, "You say No, Turkish. Boundaries!" I said that I already told her ok. He shook his head.

This morning went ok. We shopped for clothes. The kids wanted Happy Meals. At lunch, S5 started complaining that he didn't like how the ketchup looked on his burger. He's never acted like that with me... He loves ketchup. She wiped it clean with a napkin. He was satisfied. I grinned/smirked at her, "Mexican mom? I'd let him eat it as is." She kind of smiled back. She knows. I didn't say it it a mean tone, but light-heartedly.

It was a good morning. She looked good, and has radically changed her hairstyle and look from the past two years. I kept thinking what some of us think here, "was it me? What didn't I do which was good enough to lose him/her?" Then I thought, "she would often dysregulate about something as simple as going to this mall 2 miles from our house," and "though I wasn't there, her lack of emotional skills triggered our boy to aggressiveness this past week. Two months ago, he told his mom that he wished she would run into the street, get hit by a car and die."

I struggle between missing her, and missing the idea of her. As we loaded the kids into my car, she thanked me and said "so how are you doing?" Really? Now? A far cry from when she was living with us and she spied my in my chair, staring shell-shocked, she in the throes of leading a double life from our home, "what's wrong?"

I felt depressed, looked at her sideways, said "I'm ok," and shrugged. In her way, she knows it's hard for me. Later, she texted me, thanking me for "allowing me to go shopping with you... .if you ever want to talk or have me watch the kids, let me know."

I'm a single parent when I have the kids. Short of The Spanish Inquisition, I don't need help. The "if you ever want to talk" verbiage is interesting though. I thought of several replies, most of them mean, so I didn't respond, even BIFF.

I hadn't seen the T in a while, but saw him last week to get his take on a Family drawing S5 did for school. He drew us as a nuclear family, with his SD off to the side, with claws like a monster. My T said, "you're still angry." Yes. And whatever I feel doesn't change a thing. Then he went Christian n me: "even Jesus was kind to Judas at The Last Supper." So, too, in the garden when the romans arrested him. Hyperbole? Yes. However, my Ex's betrayal was thrown in my face night after night, day after day, for four months while she lived her double life. That often the kids would ask, "where's Mommy?" Was more heartbreaking.

So I take it as a testament to my detachment that we can sometimes hang out. Despite it all, as my T says, "there's nothing wrong with being kind."

I'm really trying... .

[unicorn2014]

 Hi Turkish, thank you for telling your story,   :'( that's really rough. I really appreciate your honesty. You're a really good writer too. 

[enlighten me]

Hi Turkish

I can understand how you feel about the replacement. I felt the same with my ex wifes new husband. Fortunately for you the OM is wanting to do his best. My sons step dad was glad to see the back of them and they were treat like Cinderella while living with him. Expected to do the chores while their step sisters sat around playing on their Ipads. He also show NPD traits and the boys said they were used as his stress ball. Its hard to give advice to someone you don't like but at the end of the day your children benefit and having one stable adult in that household has got to be a good thing for them.

A lot of us here were someones replacement. It doesn't make us bad people and a lot of the time we were just as mislead as the person we replaced. Im certain my ex hadn't broken up with her husband when she started grooming me.

Ive done things with my ex that I wasn't comfortable with like taking the kids swimming. It is hard when theyre being normal. Luckily I didn't have doubts about how she really is.

I don't think your therapists reference to Jesus is a very good point. Judas was remorseful to the point he hung himself. I never saw any kind of remorse from either of my exs.

[Turkish]

Good point about Judas. That is very dark... An imperfect analogy, but the being kind struck a chord with me. Release with Grace? That, and Release With Boundaries. Like many who have parents with BPD, I find it hard to be kind to myself sometimes.

[myself]

Hi Turkish, when I read that your T said, "there's nothing wrong with being kind," what I thought was this includes being kind with ourselves. Then reading your follow up post, you say it's hard to be kind to yourself. So I reread the original post, and didn't really see anything there that showed you were being unkind with yourself. You sound clear about what's going on, you're trying and doing your best, and are as balanced about everything as you can be at this time. Obviously still grieving and moving on, but pretty far down the road with that as well. In what ways do you find you're not being kind with yourself? I know, as a single part-time dad myself, there are times when the kids aren't here that I feel extra lonely, extra missing having them around more and feeling I don't have a partner in my life to share it all with. Sometimes I spend that time alone working through the grieving stuff, and focusing on that. Sometimes I jump back into the projects I have going, spend time with friends, go for hikes, whatever. Do you have many things like that going on, personal interests, hobbies, etc? Something that not only helps you process more of this but takes your mind off of it too? While being kind with yourself because you're being who you really feel to be?

[ketch61]

Hi Turkish,  it is normal to have doubt that perhaps if we did a little more we could have better results with our exes. I believe only kind people like you will think that way,  2 things to keep in mind, first you did everything you could do to keep your family together and she was the one who left, second you deserve better.

[valet]

Man, that totally... .sucks. But I'm glad you've managed to get this far. I dunno what I would do if I were you, but if this is truly all about the kids than I have to agree with your T. There isn't anything wrong with being kind. It's hard sometimes, for sure, but what do you want for them?

And also, what do you want for yourself? What do you think your ex is trying to do here when she tells you not to hesitate if you want to hang with her and the kids, etc?

[Turkish]

myself: my T asked me the same question. I still hear the Peanuts adult voice "blah blah blah blah blah." I didn't see it, but he said I take care of my BPD mom, my Ex (she'd deny this), and my kids. I tend to engage in minimisation It's a coping mechanism. I have a 176 mph sport bike in the garage, but I've ridden it twice since the beginning of the year. I do go hiking, and now that the weather's cooling, will do more. I'm volunteering in the community (again... .do I process this as for others, or for myself? Does it matter?). Last weekend without the kids, I napped in bed in the afternoon (I'm not a napper), went into work for a bit both days.

ketch: yeah. She left me.

valet: I would judge our r/s as "she likes me a lot more than I like her." The more angry blogshpere would describe this as "cake-eating." I feel that in her way that she still misses me, and part of this is also her anxiety and guilt about the kids. The major problems with them have always been on her side. I won't, however, take part in some fantasy of a blended family, even for the sake of the kids. It's living a lie (personal value here which I won't compromise). I also won't parent either of them, even if I do offer advice to her. When he asked me how to better bond with the kids, all I wanted to do was to laugh and say, "Really?" I cringe when dealing with compartmentalized personalities.

This is the end of 3 days with the kids. Other than S5 being briefly mad at me when we were at the playground earlier and he made his little sister cry, we had no incidents.

[Reforming]

Hi Turkish,

Reading your posts over the last year or so I'm really struck by the courage and strength that you've shown. You're children are very lucky to have a father like you

At various points I've found emotional detachment very hard - I don't know how I'd cope if I had to maintain regular contact.

It's very difficult to watch someone step into the middle of your family, and even harder when you know that they were part of betrayal. I think you have handled it all with incredible grace and maturity.

Whatever happens in the long term, and we all know that BPD doesn't magically disappear with a new partner, your children will need their father.

Thanks for sharing

Reforming

[Mutt]

Hi Turkish,

I'm sorry you and your family are going through this. Poor S5. Do you feel that S5 may be struggling with adjusting to two homes?

My kids have complained that they feel like they are just settling in at one house, then they have to switch to the other parent's house. Also, the rules are different in both houses and sometimes they're confused and they get frustrated.

The school recommended their counseling services. We're considering it.

Sounds like a good idea.

[Turkish]

Hi Turkish,

I'm sorry you and your family are going through this. Poor S5. Do you feel that S5 may be struggling with adjusting to two homes?

My kids have complained that they feel like they are just settling in at one house, then they have to switch to the other parent's house. Also, the rules are different in both houses and sometimes they're confused and they get frustrated.

It might be more structured over there. The Monday morning incident was she getting frustrated after she went all out to make bacon and give them a decent breakfast. After she got out of the shower, S5 hadn't eaten or dressed. Anger ensued.

While I'll give her credit for putting on the spread, she isn't a SAHM. She has to get to work, dropping the kids off at the school first, six miles from her home. I'm only a mile away, yet breakfast for the kids is often a toaster waffle and milk, though lately they've been transitioning back to cereal. We know S5 gets easily distracted, and I also have to be on his case to get ready, because if I leave the room, he often won't do it. He's 5. While it's our job to teach them how to become responsible adults, it should be done age-appropriately. If mom gets mad because she tried to compress too much details into a finite time period, it's almost ensuring failure, and then blame-shifting. Ah, I remember those days fondly... .

I don't let the kids run wild, but I'm more relaxed. When their step-dad made a comment once that the kids seem more relaxed when I bring them back, that told me a lot.

[Mutt]

The Monday morning incident was she getting frustrated after she went all out to make bacon and give them a decent breakfast.

It's a lot of work for a workday morning. I agree it's easier to do on the weekends.

I don't let the kids run wild, but I'm more relaxed. When their step-dad made a comment once that the kids seem more relaxed when I bring them back, that told me a lot.

It sounds like she's anxious and you're grounded. I hope things get better for S5.