My adult daughter's dependency and manipulative behaviour

[Yukka]

Hi, My husband and I are in our early 70s. We have a problem with our eldest child aged 42.She has always been difficult and had a sense of entitlement which has often turned into abusive behaviour. This started when she was around 16. She's been to university and gained a degree in music but has never held a full time job for more than 6 months. This pattern has continued for years with my husband and I bailing her out regularly. We gave each of our 3 children a substantial amount of money which she blew while the others, 2 sons used their's wisely.
She creates huge arguments from something very petty and has caused us extreme stress.
She now has an 8 year old son and is on benefits and has lost her part time job due to the pandemic.
We created a haven for ourselves in a house in France for our retirement. She now wants to give up her nice flat and live near us in France. This would mean she will inevitably need money from us. We have told her er it's very difficult to get work in rural France.She has no business acumen although she is very artistic in many ways. We have decided that we won't support her financially any more. We think she will lose her UK benefits and will become homeless if she makes this move. (she's already moved 4 times since her son was born which is unsettling for him) . We are concerned for our grandson as he adores us and she creates arguments with us in front of him which upsets him. She is now sulking in the UK and won't talk to us. We "are making life difficult for her" despite the fact we have enabled her for years both financially, physically and emotionally.
She can be charming but can flare up at family and friends if they criticise her in any way.
We now need the strength to resist bailing her out again but it's all getting very distressing.
She is nearly middle aged and needs to stand on her own 2 feet. She is never satisfied even with our help, she always thinks the grass is greener somewhere else hence the frequent house moves.
We should have stopped enabling her years ago but when she had her son we found it difficult especially when she broke her ankle badly when he was 2. She is physically well now so I think we are doing the right thing.
She hates us at the moment but will she ever change?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Swimmy55]

Hi Yukka,
 It seems you have made wide decisions regarding protecting your mental health and your resources.   Your question of will she ever change is not an easy one to answer.  However, her changing is going to be up to her.  You enforcing your boundaries may go a long way towards giving her an incentive to change.

It is very distressful enforcing boundaries , but then again , look at what has happened when you helped her.  For something to change, something has to change and it starts with the least sick person in the relationship. 

[Roses are red]

Thanks for sharing. Helps to hear of someone else going through similar experience as I have for so many years! My daughter is almost 49. No advice to offer though.

[formflier]

We can certainly help support you as you make decisions to treat your daughter differently so she can stand on her own two feet.

Can you tell me more about how a move would mean she will need money from you?

Why not encourage her to move and say you are looking forward to it...and let her sort out the money.

Very wise of you to let her stand on her own two feet.   

Best,

FF

[Peppery]

Oh dear! Your situation sounds very difficult in a very d----d if you do, d----d if you don't kind of way. Self protection is a must, though.

I have BPD (currently, inactive) as does my 20 year old son. So, I have perspectives from both sides.

For me, in my younger years, BPD felt like an infernal rage that could explode with the tiniest whisper.  With a frustration tolerance of zero, the natural challenges and demands of every day life felt monumental to me. I find this to be the case with my son, as well. He, also, has a discomfort tolerance level that is very low, so what might be mildly uncomfortable to others, feels unbearable to him. He might perceive a chilly day, to feel freezing - or sitting still in a classroom, to feel torturous - or having to use mental exertion, to feel like climbing a mountain.

My mother prodded and pushed so that I got school work done, finished projects and got to practices on time. In my BPD mind, it felt like micromanaging and intrusion.  But, now, as the mother of a BPD, I get it.  Had she not pushed and prodded, cajoled and threatened, I'm pretty sure I would never have graduated from high school, much less been involve in extracurricular activities. Tough love was ineffective (I would have, gladly, cut off my nose to spite my face regardless of the future consequences). My narcissism was the main component of who I was and while (at times) I could make it through my self-made mine field in public - I had no emotional regulation and at home was like the cartoon Tasmanian Devil. A tiny force ripping through the household leaving destruction in my wake. Questioning everything, accepting nothing, taking issue with every topic and refusing to take no as an answer.

All I can say is that I didn't wake up and choose to be who I was.  In fact, when I wasn't spewing anger, often times I could barely get out of bed, filled with dread and suicide ideation all the time. And the labels and how I was perceived made all the other BPD symptoms much, much worse. Because, while other people saw me as manipulative, uncaring about others, a user, and dramatic - I was in a type of pain that is impossible to describe. Something along the way had to have occurred to make my thought processes so skewed, my perception so inaccurate, and my coping skills nonexistent.

I have tremendous empathy for my son and I know his behavior would be different if he had all the tools needed to navigate.  I feel that despite the narcissistic traits, he is in that indescribable hell of agony and pain that I once knew. During the episodes, he seems to be completely allergic to logic - like rationale, itself, is almost stabbing him with a hot poker. I can (and have) cut him off, financially, put him on a budget, or insist on every single receipt...but part of his illness is the inability to really learn from cause and effect situations. He will still put his hand on the proverbial burning hot eye of the stove and then, wonder why it hurts.

I still have pity parties every now and again. I am still not a whiz with finances. And I have to do breathing exercises to control my anger when I witness someone bullying another. But, now, my pessimism is more about the unfairness and discrimination with health care's attitude toward mental illness. I am incensed by all the special programs and celebrations and fund raisers for some, cherry-picked illnesses and disabilities - while my child suffers every bit as much and needs every bit as much empathy as others with disabilities do. His disabilities are just not physically, externally visible. And finally, the interjections and judgements of those without knowledge or experience with psychology - oh my - make me completely insane.  So, you see, I have to be very mindful to keep my old friend, BPD, from taking over, again!

It's painfully hard to reference my past and draw upon my own experiences with BPD - but I guess it keeps me sane in the midst of the relentless episodes of rage and fury I now watch my son goes through. When I see those who knew me before - I have an incredible urge to tell them what caused all of my misjudgments, tirades and breakdowns in the past.  And, I want to explain my son's invisible illness to those who judge him, as well. But I don't.

Not sure if any of this helps, but I hope it gives a glimpse of the other side if nothing else.

Good luck and hang tight! Hoping for the best and celebrating tiny steps!

[mggt]

Peppery,  That was such a great piece  you just wrote.  It’s nice to hear from someone who has had bpd. Do you mind if I asked what helped you over come this illness.  Thank you.

[Peppery]

Thank you for your kindness. And, of course, I'm glad to share what has helped me. (Not because I love to write about myself *wink*wink*)

I have been in and out of therapy for years - with two suicide attempts - one at age 12 and one at age 25. I am positive that somewhere along the way one of the psychologists or psychiatrists, actually, diagnosed me.  But I was never told that I had a personality disorder until age 49.

Despite the absence of a diagnosis, I was very interested in why I felt so bad and out of control so much more than others. I realized that my dramas and negative experiences were never ending.  I just never knew that emotional regulation was the key. I never realized that there was another way of thinking within my control.

 People continually told me my attitude was the problem - but the way your brain processes information is the only method you're aware of.  You only know what you know. So, hearing how I just "needed to get happy and not let things bother me so much" and "be responsible and stop being selfish" was confusing. Other people's lives and their happiness was such a mystery. But, I mean, if your brain has never processed information in a normal manner, it's impossible to know how to think any differently!

I was on the verge of a breakdown in 2015 and was desperate to find an answer as to why I was the way I was.  I found a counselor who spoke my language for the first time, ever. She was direct, but empathetic and real - opting to keep the wise, lofty philosophical ideals to a minimum. I had been "scolded" by a lot of therapists over the years and, like most BPD sufferers, criticism was a good way to ensure I never came back. She explained her theories about why my brain couldn't embrace emotional regulation. My brain...not me! Thank God I wasn't being blamed again! I realized she didn't believe a child (my episodes started around age 4) could, possibly, have just decided to be a pain in everyone's arse and behave horribly, for fun.

She referred me to a like-minded psychiatrist who took the blame off of me, as well, and redirected toward solutions and medications for stabilization.  Once I had an actual diagnosis, the clouds lifted and I found out I was not the only one!  It was such a relief to know that I had not caused my own disorder by being "bad". And the way I processed information was not a conscious decision.

So that was really it. I was given a rational explanation for my behavior. There was no chastising and no overly-simplistic solutions suggested. No more, "If you smile, everything will be ok", or "Get yourself organized and your life will be much easier" or "there's nothing wrong with you except your attitude". Put your lipstick on and be gracious no matter the circumstance!

And once a couple of people believed me - and didn't think I was, consciously manipulative or enjoyed being chaotic in order to get attention - I began to study and understand my condition and how it had been my master for far too long.

I learned DBT basics, dropped those friends and family who were invalidating, and began to rely on no one, financially, but myself.

I still struggle and know that my brain, sometimes, wants to perceive things in the old way - but I am aware of those tendencies. I recognize them and do my best not to entertain them.

The best thing, now, is when I find humor in my disorder. But, the gravity of having damaged my own child is hard to live with. If only I'd known what was wrong with me, and had treatment - I, possibly, could have saved my son from the agony he lives in, now.

[mggt]

Thank you so much for explaining your healing experience Cheers to you.      Take it easy on yourself when it comes to your son. One day at a time. 

[Yukka]

thank you for your good wishes. I'm finding it difficult to navigate the site,especially replying to comments on my thread.any tips?

[formflier]

You can try the "excerpt" button in the upper right of a post.  Then do "preview" to see what it will look like when you post.

For now, you are doing great with just "replying" and typing what you want to say. 

You have plenty of time to play around with different posting styles.  I'm glad you came back and would like to hear more about your situation.

Best,

FF

[Yukka]

You can try the "excerpt" button in the upper right of a post.  Then do "preview" to see what it will look like when you post.

For now, you are doing great with just "replying" and typing what you want to say. 

You have plenty of time to play around with different posting styles.  I'm glad you came back and would like to hear more about your situation.

Best,

FF

Thank you.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Justina K.]

Thank you Yukka and Peppery for your posts. We have an undiagnosed BP daughter and just learning more about this now. Your insight helps a great deal, I don't think anyone can imagine the pain of someone with BPD. I wish someone could connect with our daughter but unsure of how that will ever happen.

[Peppery]

Thank you Yukka and Peppery for your posts. We have an undiagnosed BP daughter and just learning more about this now. Your insight helps a great deal, I don't think anyone can imagine the pain of someone with BPD. I wish someone could connect with our daughter but unsure of how that will ever happen.

I'm sorry to hear about your daughter, but your courage to learn as much as you can about her condition is priceless. Keep on studying - I ordered Marsha Linehan's textbook on DBT, as well as the workbook - and learning at that depth has been invaluable.  Good luck to you and your sweet daughter. She only knows what she knows.

[Yukka]

Thankyou for sharing your experiences Pepper and Justine and others who have told their stories. I was wondering if your daughters or sons are like my daughter in her impetuous behaviour. She jumps into situations without forethought. If you give her advice or warnings of potential pitfalls we are accused of being controlling and then she accelerates the conversation into a full blown row. As soon as she has a problem she is phoning or texting expecting us to solve it. I don't mind giving advice but this is happening constantly.  We are tired of running around solving her problems which she could deal with herself.We made a mistake baling out too many times.I feel for my grandson who has moved schools 4 times and now she thinks she can live in France. She is on benefits so there's no hope of her gaining residency. She is staying with a frieind in a quiet country village and my grandson will soon  miss visiting his dad and baby half brother and friends etc. I hope she sees sense, but hasn't in the past. She's not talking to us at the moment, just  sending angry texts in which she uses our Christian names, not mum and dad anymore. My husband and I have decided enough is enough but it looks like we need to be steadfast and help her become an  independant woman.

[Justina K.]

Our 39 yr old BP daughter has had impulsive risky behavior since her teen years. She is intelligent, creative and ambitious. But her relationships have been volatile. First marriage-she moved cross country with 5 month old baby only to come back twice and finally divorce after having husband put in jail for abuse. Then picks another unhealthy relationship and has two more children. When youngest is 2 yrs. borrows money to have a breast implants, cheats on partner (did not marry this time) and then leaves that relationship because he is a bad father. The crazy part is that throughout this she has worked and bought, sold, and lost 2 houses while doing remodeling, sewing, taking her kids to dance or sports, and now in her 3rd house. It's like being in a tornado even when she's not angry at us directly! 10 months ago invited boyfriend to move in, isolating from family more. A month ago she eloped/married the love of her life, wants everyone to be happy for her. When relationships don't work out she has lots of blame for her family. After the fact she wants someone to stop her from making bad decisions but if anyone doesn't agree with her new ideas we are against her and not supporting her choices and she is angry. Roller coaster life, it's tiring to see your daughter go through it but to live it must be exhausting!