Seeing mBPD today after long time no contact

[wmm]

I've been no contact with my mother since November 2021 after her messing up my wedding was the last straw of toxic abuse. My sister's wedding is on September 16 (less than a month away). She told me that she wants me to meet up with my mom before I attend her wedding to avoid any drama. I was supposed to do it last week but my sister was pushing so hard and being rude that I cancelled it. I decided to rip off the bandaid and told my dad I'd meet up with them today. I will be seeing her at 12pm (it is now 9am). I have to think of things to talk about and ways to keep calm. I don't want to get into anything too deep. My husband will be with there and it will be at a cafe so we can get in and out if necessary.

Does anyone have some recommendations on what I can talk about and how to maintain my cool. I'm getting anxious. I am not doing this because I want to. I am doing this because my sister (the golden child) has made it a stipulation. I think that my mother thinks this means things will go back to normal. I plan to have as little contact with her as possible after the wedding. We'll just see each other at some family events and that's all. She'll be very upset when she realizes that. Should I say anything about that today? I feel like I need a plan.

[TelHill]

Hello,

I am a scapegoat in my family and have an older sibling gc with a dBPD mom.    I wouldn't expect much change from your family at all as you know. They are not dealing with reality (your sister blames you for your mother's behavior, for example, and bpd mom will act out).  My suggestion would be not to take the bait if someone goads you. Don't get involved with dramatics.  Look calm and say oh or that's too bad when someone says something out of left field. Or you ignore it and stay silent.  My objective in these situations is for me not to feel too trashed by my family's behavior.  It takes effort and time to get to this goal.  

I'd talk about the weather, the wedding dress, the venue, the flowers -- just boring stuff. Don't volunteer things about your recent wedding or your life at all. Less information from you and fewer things for your family to create drama about or dredge up the past.

That's it for a quick and easy suggestions. Look over the tips and tricks at this site when you have more time like why families with a bpd member set up roles like golden child, scapegoat, and the Karpman triangle. I hope all goes ok for you today.

[Methuen]

Hi wmm.  I remember you and your situation well.

I remember how brave you were to cancel your wedding- the one your mom was planning and controlling (which was all about her instead of you) - and instead going ahead with your own smaller wedding done your way.  I think it took a lot of courage to do that.

The first thing I noticed in your post is that your sister is using control by stipulating that to attend her wedding you must see your mom.  It would not surprise me if they were working together on that.  IMHO setting a condition which she must know will cause you immense distress shows her own level of dysfunction.  She learned this behavior from your mom.

As you know your mom will nevertheless forgive you for canceling the wedding because it made her look bad in front of everyone.  She did this to herself.  It was NOT your fault.

Are you familiar with “grey rock?”  When they say something to draw you into drama (which they will), go “grey rock”.  Imagine they are a stranger.  You wouldn’t react to a stranger because you ate not emotionally invested in that stranger. Stay neutral, and say “I have to go now” and leave to find someone you feel safe with. 

Topics: wedding, weather, jobs, children, local current events, common interests or hobbies. 

Out of bounds topics: family, politics, religion, anything personal. 

I second Telhill’s advice to avoid any conversation about yourself.  Don’t give them a target. 

Were you and your sister close?  Is this a wedding you wish to atte?

[zachira]

Is there anybody you could bring to this meeting whom your mother wants to look good in front of? I was raised by a BPD mom and have a golden child sister. Their behaviors were always at their worst when I was alone with them, and they pretended to be nice if they were being observed by people they wanted to look good in front of. Having the meeting in the cafe is a good idea. I recommend you sit in the most public spot possible and not in a corner in which you will be more cornered and more likely to be mistreated.

[livednlearned]

Does anyone have some recommendations on what I can talk about and how to maintain my cool. I'm getting anxious. I am not doing this because I want to. I am doing this because my sister (the golden child) has made it a stipulation. I think that my mother thinks this means things will go back to normal. I plan to have as little contact with her as possible after the wedding. We'll just see each other at some family events and that's all. She'll be very upset when she realizes that. Should I say anything about that today? I feel like I need a plan.

I hope things went ok  

My family is allergic to intimacy. Anything that feels like closeness leads to drama.

Like Methuen mentioned, I keep things as neutral as possible. You're smart to meet in a public place for lunch with a socially acceptable time limit.

I've found over the years it helps to have catch phrases that can prevent conversations from getting too real.

Real --> intimacy.

Intimacy --> fear.

Fear --> anger.

My family has very little tolerance for anything real. I try to use facial expressions more than I do with other people because non-verbal validation seems to help keep them more evenly keeled. I have a theory that if I appear distant or remote, or have a muted facial expression, they feel the need to stir the pot and get a reaction. Then, if I have a reaction that is remotely emotional, they withdraw. They don't want intimacy, and they don't like messy emotions, but they don't like grey rock either.

It's been a process trying to figure out how to feel emotionally safe in relationship with them. I don't know if any of this will be helpful because our circumstances are often so specific but maybe there's something in how I try to navigate my post-estrangement relationship that is useful for you?

I wish people like us could have meaningful conversations with family but I'm learning that isn't in the cards for me. If I achieve any kind of closeness there is often a push back to reset things to status quo. And I find that swing of the pendulum to be quite painful so I don't pursue intimacy even if they do something that might seem like a hint of intimacy.

I'm learning to spend 90 minutes saying almost nothing:

"He's doing great. How about ______."
"That's nice."
"That's interesting."
"Oh?"
"Huh."
"Wow."
"And then what?"
"Excuse me for a moment."

If things take a turn toward hot button topics, even if it's just in that direction, I have a handful of helper phrases:

"Let me just respond to this real quick."
"Did anyone see where the bathrooms are?"
"One sec. Where's the waiter ..."

If they ask me to do something:

"Let me take some time to think about it."
"Maybe next time."
"You've given me lots to think about."
"I'll look at our calendars when I get home."

Underneath all this my emotions are usually ping ponging around inside. I try to pay attention to my breathing since I'm prone to muscle spasms when I visit them.

My family is covertly aggressive unless alcohol is involved. I learned pretty quick I cannot drink alcohol around them, not even a glass of wine because I need my full faculties. When alcohol is involved, they are quick to trigger. The last time I had a glass of wine with my family, my father became furious about me taking too long to get ready for school 40 years ago.

I'm glad you have a partner supporting you. I don't know if I could do this without the help of my husband. Sometimes I think he sees them more clearly and follows what's happening when we're in the thick of it. I can feel some of my old survival strategies at work, making it hard to fully take in who is doing what.

[Turkish]

wmm,

I didn't see this until now, but I'd have said to deflect and talk about your sister and your mom's participation in the wedding. In hope that it went well.

T

[wmm]

Thank you everyone for your suggestions. The meeting went well. Luckily it started raining and we were outside so it gave us a cue to leave.

My mom was crying a lot and apologizing at the beginning. I hugged her and told her I loved her. I didn't know what else to do. We talked about light things. I told my dad ahead of time that I wasn't going to talk about anything heavy. I don't think my mom even knows why I went no contact with her. I think she still thinks it's just about the wedding, not the lifetime of abuse. I didn't want to get into it. My problem is now that I don't know what to do with our relationship. She texted me afterwards, saying she had a good time and told me about a documentary she had watched. I texted her back (I unblocked her for now). The texts went back and forth again until I just stopped because there was nothing left to say. It was nothing serious.

I'm worried that she's going to think things are different now and expect more of a relationship. I told myself if she tries anything I can just block her again and cut her out again if I really need to. I think that therapy has helped because everytime I used to get a text message from her I would freak out before I read it.

I still haven't talked to my sister because I'm still mad at her. I'm a bridesmaid in the wedding (my older half-sister is too). I think it's out of a feeling of obligation. My sister and I are not close anymore. We used to be but I had enough of her taking my mom's side all the time and telling my mother everything I told her. I'm worried that if I don't go to the wedding everyone else that I still want to keep in touch with will be upset with me. My sister and father are the worst flying monkeys but other family members can do it too sometimes. Would you suck it up and go to the wedding?

[zachira]

I hear your fears about the flying monkeys and how other family members might treat you. If you do decide to go to the wedding, do have a plan for dealing with the flying monkeys and other people who could mistreat you. I recently attended a very large several day family reunion after going low contact and no contact with most of my relatives from my FOO and large extended family for a few years. These are the things that helped me to stay safe: I did not go to some of the events at all, especially ones in which I would be in a small space with the wrong people. I did attend the large events in which there was plenty of space to move around and kept myself in close proximity with the people the disordered relatives would not dare to act badly in front of. Ahead of time, I gave myself permission to not attend any event and to leave early if necessary. Do you think it is safe for you to be a bridesmaid, as there could be a lot more chances that you will be in close quarters with your sister and your mother? Do remember it is the bride's day and a special day for the mother of the bride, so people may enable their acting badly more than they would under normal circumstances.  

[TelHill]

I'm worried that she's going to think things are different now and expect more of a relationship. I told myself if she tries anything I can just block her again and cut her out again if I really need to. I think that therapy has helped because everytime I used to get a text message from her I would freak out before I read it.

My mom follows a pattern of love bombing before saying abusive things.  The part where I got in trouble was believing she had changed or I could change her behavior by trying super hard to be nice and caring.   I've learned to not react to the love bombing with matching behavior from me or call her out for being a fake.  I keep it light. The abuse does come. I ignore it or if really bad I make an excuse to leave right away.

If you decide to attend the wedding, your mom and dad may be on their best behavior since they're in public. Maybe avoid being alone with them? That might be hard to do as mom, bride and bridesmaids sometimes gather for pre-wedding photos or do hair and makeup together.

The following may not apply to you about weddings. The flying monkey family members I have like to drink and/or smoke. I stay away from the bar and where they go to smoke outside.

[wmm]

My mom is definitely currently love bombing me. My sister apologized to me, which is rare but good. I think that if I told my sister I wouldn't be a bridesmaid it would really upset her. I might just suck it up for the day and get it over with. My husband will be near by and at the wedding if I need to leave at any time. We're staying at a different hotel than where they're staying. My mom has been texting me today and invited me to go out for lunch with her. I'm not going to go. I'm wondering if I should reply to her and tell her I'm not comfortable with that or just ignore her message. Before I was mostly ignoring her messages. I did feel pity for her yesterday. She seemed so sad. I don't feel guilty but I do feel sad about the situation and for her. I know that she will never change though, which is why I don't feel comfortable being close to her or alone with her again.

My family won't be drinking as much. My mom is 4 months sober after almost dying falling down the stairs when she was drunk. My sister has also told her she can't drink at the wedding.

[zachira]

It might make sense to just suck it up and go to the wedding. One of my mistakes with many of my disordered family members was to be way too transparent about my feelings about all the ongoing abuse of at least 6 generations of scapegoats which put them on the war path. I would have been better off with some of them to hide my feelings, however with certain members I really had no choice but to stand up for myself, like with my NPD sister who was emotionally abusing me and financially abusing me. With your mother, it sounds like you have no choice but to ignore her until she leaves you alone, and keep your distance from her at the few family events you are forced to see her at. With other family members, keeping your distance and not sharing any personal details about yourself could be the best strategy.

[kells76]

Hi wmm and welcome back -- I also remember your story.

I hear you wondering about if/how to respond to your mom's message inviting you out for lunch. Ignoring (aka choosing not to respond to) messages would be fine to choose. It could buy you some time. How has that gone in the past?

Another approach could be "deflecting" -- saying something like "So busy with wedding prep, just can't make it happen -- see you on the big day!"

My "spidey sense" would be telling me not to disclose that I am not comfortable with her message. Talking about how I feel with pwPD's is a red flag for me, as it provides them with information about me that is too vulnerable for me to share. Most pwPDs that I know, I don't feel safe sharing information with them, as they may use information about me to have power over me.

If I were in a similar situation, I'd probably deflect. The downside to deflecting is that it is still engagement, so it does open a door for more messages.

There may be other approaches, too -- this group is great at offering ideas for how to cope.

[livednlearned]

Would you suck it up and go to the wedding?

Do you feel safe about going?

You mentioned therapy, which can be such a great foundation.

Weddings are tough because they do create a specific kind of pressure.

How would you feel about leaving if things started to feel emotionally unsafe? Whether it was people drinking too much or family members using the opportunity to scold you (or make you feel ostracized).

You mentioned your mother's tears. My mother (not BPD but emotionally immature and self-centered/negligent) often uses tears to get her needs met. I've learned over the years to not allow her emotions to be my emotions. If she is sad, she is sad. I might acknowledge her sadness, but that's it.

I was so codependent I thought tears meant I had to change what I was doing to make her feel better.

When I stopped accommodating her tears it surprised me how quickly she got angry.

I think for her tears are about controlling people. She might have sad feelings but she sheds tears in front of people because she wants them to do something for her, regardless of whether it's not safe or healthy for other people. It's a habit.