My ex girlfriend of 3.5 Months

[Willis002]

Regarding the smear campaign it has only affected her side and everyone on my side see whats really going on. I hope if we reconcile her and I can have a talk with her family and a few her close friends and clear things up.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Meili]

Meili, if you can, please provide a link pointing to a professional article espousing this view that a pwBPD may exhibit "none of the specific traits."  

... .//... .

  Hence, if these behaviors are entirely missing -- i.e., the person exhibits "none of the traits" as you say -- I cannot imagine how anyone could identify that person as a pwBPD.

Yes, that was poorly written and not what I meant for it to say.

What I meant was that not all of the traits need to be expressed for a person to be diagnosed with BPD.

To be considered BPD, a person must have at least five (or more) of the following traits:

• Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. (Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.)
• A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.
• Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.
• Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex,substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). (Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.)
• Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior.
• Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria,irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).
• Chronic feelings of emptiness.
• Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).
• Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.

Not all nine are required is what I meant. Sorry for the confusion.

[Downtown]

Not all nine are required is what I meant. Sorry for the confusion.

No problem, Meili.  Thanks for the clarification.

[Willis002]

I'm closing on a week (Sunday) without contacting her. I have feeling she thinks I will try to contact her again this week. I hope that when notices when the weeks start adding up that she misses me and realizes what really happened. I've been doing so much research to understand her disorder and to prepare myself if she comes back. I truly want to make this work and am willing to go to any lengths to have us have a happy ending. I'm sure right now she is going through a lot of pain and processing. It going to be 3 week since our break up on Sunday. I hope my silence will spark something in here. If we don't get back together, I at least want to have a conversation with her.

[Downtown]

For 3 months I really thought I found the one for me... .I eventually was able to to talk her down and got to the root of the problem. She was highly stressed out at work... .

Willis, perhaps you're right about her having been stressed out at work.  Yet, if she exhibits strong BPD behaviors, that likely was not "the root of the problem" causing the the blowup just 3 months into your relationship.  Instead, it was the evaporation of her infatuation -- a process that usually starts 3 to 6 months into a BPDer relationship.

What happens, at the beginning of the relationship, is that a BPDer will idealize you so completely that she will be absolutely convinced you are the nearly perfect man who has arrived to save her from unhappiness.  This infatuation is so strong that it holds her two fears (abandonment and engulfment) completely at bay.  

This is why, with high functioning BPDers, it is very unlikely you will see any BPD traits during this courtship period.  Once her infatuation starts evaporating, however, both fears return and -- as I noted above -- you cannot avoid triggering them.  It therefore is not surprising that your BPDer exGF started pushing you away at the 3-month mark.  

What is surprising, however, is that she has such a high level of self awareness.  I've never seen any published figures on the incidence of self awareness in high functioning BPDers but my best guess that it is around 5%.  By its very nature, BPD is such a normal way of thinking for the BPDer that it is almost always is invisible to the person suffering from it (i.e., it is "egosyntonic".  

This absence of self awareness, then, is the biggest obstacle to treatment and is the primary reason BPD is so difficult to treat.  It therefore is a very good sign that your exGF exhibits such a high level of self awareness about her dysfunctional behavior.  By itself, however, her self awareness is insufficient for successful treatment.  The BPDer also must have the ego strength necessary for seeking treatment and working hard at it for many years.  

Based on my communications and discussions with HF BPDers online (all of whom are self aware), I believe that the vast majority of them lack that ego strength.  Hence, although I've communicated with over a hundred of them online -- where they complain about their disorder -- only a small share of those self aware BPDers have remained in therapy long enough to make a real difference in their behaviors.  I would be surprised if more than 1% of HF BPDers ever learn how to manage their disorder.  I therefore hope you are correct about her not being on the high end of the BPD spectrum.

[Willis002]

I agree that it's not the root of the problem. The fact that after she tried breaking up with me the first time she continued to talk about future stuff was a good sign in my opinion. That after I talked her down that it was me, but it was because of work and life. I believe this is what happened this time, but on a larger scale. She broke up with me I believe because I now know about her condition. I really think it's that simple guys. She now doesn't trust me and wants to keep me away so I can't tell people her secret (in her mind).

The fact she knows about her behavior gives me hope, She wrote me this message after she tried breaking up with me the first time: "This is why I always try to break up. Because I'm a bad person, and I do this for undetermined
 amount of time with everyone I'm close with until I finally feel safe. And then it stops. But until then I can't control this. Believe me, if I did I would have stopped years ago... .Because I have lost SO Many people in my life because of this behavior. So I hate myself! Believe me! I don't want to do this to you!" Lastly she wrote me message during that week that said, "Thank you. I love you too. Thats why this hurts so much. I never want to be unkind to you. This was after she tried breaking up with me the first time and felt bad literally all week.

So this in a nutshell is why I'm hopeful. Obviously this shows at some point she will wake up and understand what damage she did. I believe all this give me hope that she will try to reconnect with me. She's not a liar. The time she has tried LYING were silly white lies that were easy to see. She asked me if it was okay if a guy friend could hand out with her. NOT A CHEATING THING. I think the longer I'm away she will wake up. It will be a week Sunday without any contact. She really does care about me when she is herself.

[Willis002]

Like you said her self-awareness is the main reason I have hope. I know from reading I'm a co-dependent. I'm getting stronger by reading and understanding the disorder. Getting myself ready if she comes back and to heal myself completely. I've tried dating. I don't fear being alone. I truly truly love this woman and I'm ready to but my boundaries up and put in the hard work. She is worth it to me. No but you guys can understand me. No one around me thinks I should try to continue. She is worth it and I want to guide her as much as I can. I can't help her, but I can guide her. She has to do it for herself. If she contacts me there's 4 things that will need to be done: 1. We talk with her family. 2. Talk with my family. 3. We discuss getting her help. 4. We work on our relationship and set up boundaries and how we can work together with her disorder. I'm willing to make sacrifices for this relationship. I'm willing to go through the ups and down. I can't stand doing this over and over again, but if it is on a smaller scale I can handle it. On a smaller scale I consider questioning our relationship as being on the smaller scale. She did this 5 or 6 time during the relationship.

[C.Stein]

Like you said her self-awareness is the main reason I have hope.

Self-awareness isn't enough.  It is easy to say something and another to do something.  My ex was also capable of self-awareness ... .but was not capable of sustaining that self-awareness and more importantly acting upon it.

I truly truly love this woman

What do you truly love?  Like I asked someone in another thread, dig deep here, list qualities that will lead to a long term healthy relationship ... .and not sex.

Then list all the things that will not lead to a long term healthy relationship.

When you do this think of 5, 10 years down the road.  Be honest with yourself here.  It doesn't do you any good to sugar coat reality and pretend she is something she is not.

[Willis002]

C. Stein did your ex come back? I know things will be hard. If at the very least we have communication and we part ways I can live with that. She's got one last chance with me. I'm putting my plan together for whatever happens. I know there's that chance she might not come back, but I like to think positively think the odds are decent for that to happen.

My love honestly has little to do with sex. We wanted all of the same things for the future. We are different but have very much in common. The girl I was with for 3 month was amazing. Long term idk what would happen. Thats why if we were to get in contact thats one of the first few things that would need to be discussed.

[C.Stein]

C. Stein did your ex come back?

Not in any way, shape or form.  In fact, she hasn't even acknowledged we even had a relationship or that she ever had any feelings for me.  I am certain I have been painted the blackest of black and I highly doubt that will ever change.  Once she turns her back on someone they are deleted from her life ... .forever.  Beyond that she prefers a fresh clean slate, someone who can see her the way she wants to be seen, not the way she truly is ... .at least until she can't hide it anymore.  Then the cycle begins again.

I know things will be hard. If at the very least we have communication and we part ways I can live with that. She's got one last chance with me. I'm putting my plan together for whatever happens. I know there's that chance she might not come back, but I like to think positively think the odds are decent for that to happen.

My love honestly has little to do with sex. We wanted all of the same things for the future. We are different but have very much in common. The girl I was with for 3 month was amazing. Long term idk what would happen. Thats why if we were to get in contact thats one of the first few things that would need to be discussed.

I highly recommend you try to find some clarity with respect to what she has to offer you in the long term. 

My ex can be one of the most amazing people I have ever met ... .and she can be one of the most cold-hearted, uncaring and thoughtless people I have ever met.  I put my faith in, believed in, trusted in the person I thought she could be (and she thought she could be), but it was only an illusion of my making.  As hard as it has been for me to accept this, she simply does not have the integrity or emotional maturity to be an equal part of a mutually beneficial and healthy adult relationship. 

[Willis002]

Do think from what you've read from situation that my chances are better than nothing that she will at the very least make contact. She's different from woman her age. She's 20. She wants to have a family before she is 25. We discussed having two kids. She would like to marry in around 2 years. She is aware that she pushes people away and says it happens for a period of time and it stops. Idk if this is true. I feel like she was foreshadowing what probably will happen with us. In the letters she game me one really stuck out. She said that I'm her atlas. That even how fair she might stray she will always find her way back to me. I just feel that there's so much good in the version i know and from the thinks she knows that she will at some point comeback.

Long term I know I have to weigh my options.

[Willis002]

I read something interesting. I want her to remember me for the good. I sent her flower and hoping that will help matters. At least open the lines of communication.

[Downtown]

I want her to remember me for the good.

Willis, if being "remembered for the good" is your goal, I would suggest you find yourself a stable woman capable of holding on to a lasting impression.  With emotionally unstable people like an untreated BPDer, it is impossible to build up a lasting sense of appreciation or any permanent good will, on which you could later draw during the hard times. 

This goal is unattainable because, until a BPDer has had many years of intensive therapy, her emotional development likely will remain frozen at the level of a four year old.  This means that her perception of you is colored and distorted by whatever intense feeling she is experiencing at THIS VERY MOMENT.  Like a young child, she is too emotionally immature to intellectually challenge that feeling.  Instead, she accepts it as a self-evident "fact."  She is convinced that any feeling that intense MUST accurately reflect reality.

The result is that, with an untreated BPDer, it is pointless to try to leave a lasting impression, e.g., to be "remembered for the good."  Trying to do so is equivalent to trying to build a lasting sandcastle on a beach beside the sea.  No matter how great your sacrifices are for her, that sandcastle -- along with your latest impressions -- will be washed aside by the next intense feeling flooding her mind.  Consequently, if she is on the high end of the BPD spectrum and remains untreated, the best you can hope for is her continuing to flip between viewing you as "all white" and "all black."

My experience is that, no matter what you do, an untreated BPDer likely will eventually split you "all black" permanently.  As the years go by, she will become increasingly resentful of your inability to make her happy (an impossible task).  At the same time, she will become increasingly fearful of abandonment as she sees her body aging.  Eventually, that anger and fear will grow so painful that she likely will abandon you.

In my case, I tried to help my BPDer exW heal herself by taking her to six psychologists and three MCs.  At enormous expense, I sent my exW to weekly visits with those professionals for 15 years.  Sadly, it did not make a dent in her BPD behaviors.  Not one dent.  Instead, her anger and fear kept growing until she abandoned me one day to stop the pain.

By "abandoned me" I mean she had me arrested on the bogus charge of "brutalizing" her.  Because BPDers usually believe the outrageous allegations coming out of their mouths, they tend to be very convincing when the police arrive.  And, because this occurred early on a Saturday morning, I was in jail for nearly 3 days before I had an opportunity to be arraigned before a judge and released.  That 3 days was far more than sufficient for her to obtain a R/O -- which courts hand out like candy to crying women -- barring me from returning to my own home for 18 months (the time it takes to get a divorce here in my State).

I mention this jail time and R/O because it took my exW 15 YEARS to get to that point.  In contrast, your exGF did "a smear campaign" and threatened you with a R/O after dating you for only 3 MONTHS.  Significantly, your very first reply in this thread was a post from Turkish, advising you to take your exGF's threats seriously.  Please listen to him.

[Willis002]

I'm going to stop. I feel so empty. She got rid of me just because I know she has this disorder. I'm falling apart. Miss her so and I can't do a damn thing.

[C.Stein]

She is aware that she pushes people away and says it happens for a period of time and it stops. Idk if this is true.

It is true.  One thing you can bet on, when someone tells you who they are and they will eventually hurt you ... .believe them.  This is especially true for a borderline.

There are many things a borderline might say/do to secure an attachment, many of those things may not even be based in reality.  One thing for sure though, when a borderline (or anyone) has an honest moment of reflection with regard to their true nature believe it.  She knows she has BPD and has chosen to do nothing about it.  

I feel like she was foreshadowing what probably will happen with us.

Not probably, certainly.  She has told you explicitly this is what she does.  It isn't a matter of if she will do it.  She will stray and has said as much.

This is why I always try to break up. Because I'm a bad person, and I do this for undetermined
 amount of time with everyone I'm close with until I finally feel safe. And then it stops. But until then I can't control this. Believe me, if I did I would have stopped years ago... .Because I have lost SO Many people in my life because of this behavior. So I hate myself! Believe me! I don't want to do this to you!"

It really doesn't get any clearer than that!  :)on't fall into the same trap that I did, believing that this time will be different.  While I didn't turn a blind eye to the "warnings" from my ex, I did give her the benefit of the doubt, and continued to do so even after her behavior substantiated the warnings.  Allowing this to happen compromised my personal self in a big way.

In the letters she game me one really stuck out. She said that I'm her atlas. That even how fair she might stray she will always find her way back to me. I just feel that there's so much good in the version i know and from the thinks she knows that she will at some point comeback.

Is this the type of life you want to live?  If she strays to another man, and there is a good chance at some point she will, what then?  Her words here are ones of wishful thinking IMO.  She may or may not eventually find her way back, but each time she strays the pages of the "atlas" get burned until there is nothing left.  And what does all this do to you in the meantime?  

Long term I know I have to weigh my options.

Yes you do.  Please be realistic about the situation.

[Willis002]

Thank you so much. Do you think the damage she has caused with her smear campaign will hinder her from reaching out to me? At the very least I want real closure if I can get. If she would have broke up with me legitimately and did it the right way I would a lot better off. Instead I find out about her disorder, blocks me, cuts me out, etc 

I did do something but now I know I have to do no contact unless she makes contact with me. I emailed her, her letters to remind her of what she felt when she wrote them. I also sent her flowers so she can remember me as good. I'm just trying to open the lines of communication. After that I have to continue my soul searching

[C.Stein]

Thank you so much. Do you think the damage she has caused with her smear campaign will hinder her from reaching out to me? At the very least I want real closure if I can get. If she would have broke up with me legitimately and did it the right way I would a lot better off. Instead I find out about her disorder, blocks me, cuts me out, etc 

The more shame she feels about her behavior the less likely she will reach out.  That is not to say she won't but it is quite likely you have become a trigger for her shame.

Forget about getting closure from her.  The likelihood of that happening is very very small.  You will have to find a way to give yourself closure.  One way to do this is by understanding why she does the things she does.  You are doing this right now and I commend you for your effort.

I did do something but now I know I have to do no contact unless she makes contact with me. I emailed her, her letters to remind her of what she felt when she wrote them. I also sent her flowers so she can remember me as good. I'm just trying to open the lines of communication. After that I have to continue my soul searching

Willis, your only option right now is to take care of yourself.  You are putting yourself in jeopardy by ignoring her request to not contact her.  Respect her request and if she wants to reach out she will.

[Willis002]

I'm trying really hard to take care of myself I really am. I know no body knows but from what you've read about my situation do you think theres a decent chance she tries to reach out? I feel that the letters she wrote were a warning of this happening. One said don't give up on me or us. She wrote the letters the week we broke up. Thats text that said she does this for a period of time and it stops.

Believe me! I know what I need to if she contacts me. It's this silent treatment. It killing me inside. I just want to talk to her. Thats all I've been trying to do. I absolutely need to go no contact. My impulses to fix this and going wild right now. I'm in this situation where I can't do anything. I'm here trying to get back the woman I love back. I pray that when she wakes up that she can realize what she has done. The fact the I've been reaching out I hope helps her chances of reaching out. That whatever shame she might have still will make it okay to contact me.

[JJacks0]

Hey Willis,

First of all I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I can definitely relate to the anxiety you're feeling. But you're right in acknowledging that you need to go no contact. I know how hard it is, believe me. I was with my ex for 7 years and ultimately had to do the same. But when I was desperately begging for her back, all it did was push her further away... .to the point that she even started dating someone else. I thought it was what she wanted... .that it would show her how devoted I was and that I would never leave. But I think she just felt engulfed and out of control of her own life.

I can't speak for your ex, but mine (and seemingly many people with BPD) have control issues among other things ... .and she's probably feeling very out of control when you continue to do things she asks you not to. Believe me, I understand how you can get lost in your own head and overanalyze... .think about every possible circumstance and try to figure out what she really wants, etc... .But it's wasted energy, you'll never be able to predict what she's thinking or what the "right" thing to do is. All you can do is take what she says right now at face value and respect her wishes. It sounds like if she gave you these "warning signs", she knows herself pretty well... .so give it some time and you just might hear back from her. I think your chances are higher though, if you show her that you respect that she is in control of the r/s too... .by continuing to contact her after she's asked you not to, she may be feeling like you don't respect her or acknowledge that she has a right to make decisions regarding her own life as well.

[Willis002]

Thank you! I'm going to start going to a therapist myself. I have major depression. Something interesting I should note. When things were good she said she would never do what my last girlfriend did to me. My previous girlfriend abandoned me much the same way as my current ex did. Could she have done this knowing it would hurt me that much more since it happened before or was this just knee jerk reaction without thinking about the situation. We also talked about if we ever broke up that we would do it the right way and try to leave on the best terms possible. This was the first time this has happened to us. I believe the woman I dated is still in her, but I think going NC is the only way she will ever comeback. That woman cares about me. For example I got in a work accident this summer where I got a concussion. She came down to make sure I was alright. I might add we live over an hour apart. She ended up taking me to the hospital and even helped me out with my paper work. She even stayed the night with me to make sure I was alright. I truly feel that I'm not completely turn black. I feel the time away probably will remind her that she made a mistake. I'm basing all of my hope on the woman I was dating. She isn't like the other woman I've been reading about. She is a silent BPD. Passive aggressive, not a cheater, not a liar, etc. I really believe she's afraid to be with me because I'm the first guy in her life that actually treats her well. Her past relationships have been with people who have treated her badly. She went on a few dates with guy before meeting me. So she isn't going to just date anyone in my opinion. I think she just wants to be alone so she doesn't hurt anyone. I threw my last Hail Mary yesterday. I sent her a email that stated I will be here if she ever wants to come back and I'm surprising her with flowers at her door today. I'm now going to go full NC and hope for the best. I really want to give this relationship one last try, because I feel there is really something here. Again appreciate you guys and you are helping more than you'll ever know! THANK YOU!

[C.Stein]

It's this silent treatment. It killing me inside. I just want to talk to her. Thats all I've been trying to do. I absolutely need to go no contact. My impulses to fix this and going wild right now. I'm in this situation where I can't do anything. I'm here trying to get back the woman I love back. I pray that when she wakes up that she can realize what she has done. The fact the I've been reaching out I hope helps her chances of reaching out. That whatever shame she might have still will make it okay to contact me.

I understand the silent treatment and how it eats you up.  I have conversations with my ex in my head on a never ending loop.  So many things I want to say but no voice to say it.  You can't allow yourself to be controlled by this though.  If she reaches out or not, you need to find a way to come to terms with your own emotions.  She cannot help you with this, no more than you can help her with her problem.  She told you that she needs to deal with this on her own.  Show her the respect she deserves and allow her to do that.

[Willis002]

I just got a notification in my email that I'm expecting package. 99% sure it's my stuff being sent back from her. Should I lose all hope that she will ever comeback or am I just reading to much into this. Is this just part of the process? Really does the having any baring of her possibly coming? I feel even more real now. I hope NV wakes her up at some point and she realizes the the mistake she made. Because at some point I believe they realize what they've done.

[JJacks0]

I'd say don't get ahead of yourself. You suspect that's what the package is, & you may be right, but there's no use in trying to predict all the possible outcomes (not that I'm not guilty of the same - it's much easier to give advice than to take it).

You keep saying that you hope she wakes up and realizes the mistake she made, etc. But I think an unfortunate reality that many others have expressed to me on here, is that for people with BPD feelings=facts. So this is her reality, and it's different from yours. I often hope the same for my ex, but I've come to realize that we're just not on the same page because my outlook is based on a combination of facts/feelings/logic, while she is run solely by emotion. That's not to say that she couldn't feel differently one day, and run with that... .I'm just saying that trying to convince her rationally the way that you and I might look at the situation, isn't going to work. And as C.Stein mentioned, as much as you want to, you can't really help her with that. The more you try to the more you may just end up invalidating her. It's likely something she's got to be in therapy for and work on herself if she wants to change.

[Willis002]

I'm pretty sure it is because I'm not expecting anything and it's 20 lbs. Even though she is sending my stuff should I give up hope? I feel that since she knows she lost a lot of people because of her behavior that she will at some point realize what she's done. I know now that I must disappear and allow for her to figure this out on her own. I know I can't fix her. I think the only way I can help her is if she reaches out to me one day and I tell her she needs to get help if she wants to be with me. That's the only way I can aid her. It's all in her I know. I just want to keep the faith and hope someday we at least make communication. I now know I have to live my life and just see what happens. I can't wait on her. I hope my odd of her contacting me are better than nothing.

[Willis002]

Can the girl I know ever come back and at some point wil she realize what she has done. I just want the lines of communication to open up

[Willis002]

Yeah it's over she threaten a restraining order on me and said she's scared of me. All hope is gone. I hope she doesn't try to contact me in the future. When I heard her voice their was so much venom. She couldn't even remember the person I was before all this. This is her lose and now I can finally heal and have no worries. Besides maybe having a psycho ex girlfriend who might try to hunt me down if she can't find somebody to replace me. I'm gone with the wind.

[Turkish]

So what did you learn from all of this?

[Willis002]

Not to date a borderline and that I need therapy for my impulses!

[Turkish]

You got out this time fairly unscathed. I was worried given the threats of an RO. From my point-of-view, it isn't dating (or not) a borderline; rather, it's not believing what's being said (which is of course confusing given previous idealization). Many of us got warnings and plowed ahead anyway. There are restraining orders associated with both relationships either side of mine, and battery (her) in her current one. Learning the tools here in the margins (on whatever board) and understanding both BPD behaviors and also our role in the relationships is key to surviving. All in all, I'm glad you're safe. 

Therapy might be beneficial, even if just a few sessions. Doesn't mean anything's wrong to the point of being pathological, but it's good to get a third party voice to provide another perspective.

[Willis002]

Thank you! I hope she never contacts me. She's gone off the deep end. I've read about the relationship cycle and I hope it doesn't happen to me. She's scared of me for no reason. I mentioned to my family and friends what she said and they think she's is crazy and can't believe it. She truly burnt the bridge with me. You can never underestimate someone who is unstable. I'm going to take this time and take care of myself. I feel free and sense of relief weirdly enough. Just sucks how she broke up with me and how she treated me. I guess she can live with that guilt at some point in her life and worsen her feeling about herself. She lost someone that really cared about her and would never of hurt her. I guess I got lucky to get out of this situation and still haven't lost anything from it. Just miss the girl I met.