So Completely Confused 4.. The Next Generation

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

well, sure. seeing what you saw doesnt have to mean anything beyond what you make it mean.

what are you making it mean? why? i felt many of the same fears - it helps to talk about it.

[once removed]

well, sure. seeing what you saw doesnt have to mean anything beyond what you make it mean.

what are you making it mean? why? i felt many of the same fears - it helps to talk about it.

[TheRiddler]

Once removed:

I just feel they're going to get married, and that'll mean she and I will never have a chance and also that this guy succeeded where I failed and thus, our problems were mostly my fault and she doesn't have BPD.

[Meili]

Is it also possible that if she does get married, she's dies have BPD and that she's just not as emotionally invested in this guy as she was you so she isn't triggered as bad?

If so, that would mean that you did it right by making her actually, and genuinely, fall for you. She just couldn't handle it.

[Leonis]

Once removed:

I just feel they're going to get married, and that'll mean she and I will never have a chance and also that this guy succeeded where I failed and thus, our problems were mostly my fault and she doesn't have BPD.

When my engagement with my ex didn't work out, something happened over Facebook. Eventually, her youngest sister blurted out that when my ex first broken up with while we were dating back in 2015, I apparently had forced her to come back to the relationship by force. How? The sister claimed that by harassing her family. I recall talking to her mom about if she knew why because my ex never explained anything.

So... .did the family faked all the compliments and opinions about me? Can you imagine if I had married my ex? In their hearts, they probably all hated the idea of me being with her. (I haven't talked about this yet, but my relationship was interracial with me being the minority.) I was fully aware that her oldest brother hated the idea of me dating my ex. Who knows if he knew I was sleeping with her. It's supposed to be a conservative household.

What would have happened was probably getting divorced over something ridiculous and end up with being accused as an abusive spouse. The divorce probably would have been really bad for me too.

Bottom line is, don't think just because she got married = the other guy succeeded. Even my ex claimed that she would have totally married the guy before me, but would have divorced him anyways because of his "apparent" issues.

[TheRiddler]

Meili:

That would make me feel better, is that possible?  It got my hopes up

[Meili]

Is which part possible?

If you meant the part about love, sure it's possible. But that shouldn't get your hopes up about a chance of reconciliation. There are lots of people on these boards, myself included, who have truly fallen in love with someone that they don't want in their life anymore, in any form, for any reason, whatsoever.

If you meant the other part, sure that's possible too.

The reality is that none of us will ever know what goes on inside of her head. Anything is possible. What you need to ask yourself is what type of person you want to be if she were to come back to you? Do you want to be a broken man, or do you want to be a strong, confident one?

Since you don't know what she's going to do, the best thing for you to do is to work on making yourself a strong, confident person. There are so many benefits to this strategy.

You have to focus on you to get there, which means you cannot be focusing on her and what she might or might not be doing.

If she does come back, you'll be strong enough to handle her chaos so that you don't repeat the cycle.

If she doesn't come back, you won't care because you'll be strong and confident.

You're more likely to meet someone else, so if she doesn't come back you'll be fine.

You're more likely to attract her to make her want to come back.

Now, please don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating that you work on yourself for her benefit. Far from that actually. That would be futile and fake. But, doing it for yourself guarantees success; whatever that success might be. It's a no lose situation for you.

[TheRiddler]

I don't know what to think, how to position this in my head so I'm comfortable.  Now I feel I shouldn't have hope, others say recycling is inevitable, still others say you shouldn't hope for a recycle.  These boards can really twist you around.

[Meili]

I have a really good idea of how you feel. I was like that for a long time. There's still a part of me that hopes for another chance (recycle), and probably always will be part of who I am now. But, in the beginning, I was a hopium addict. Being a hopium addict can really do a number on your emotions though.

But, having hope is different from having expectations. Hope really isn't a bad thing. It's when that hope turns into an expectation or becomes all consuming that it becomes problematic. When we cross the line between hoping that something happens and expecting it to happen is where we breed severe disappointment and resentment.

The two points of view about recycling that you mentioned are not actually contrary. Many pwBPD try to recycle, but we shouldn't hope that happens. Recycling typically ends very poorly. It takes a very emotionally strong individual to maintain a r/s with a pwBPD. It also takes a person who is willing to subject him/herself to a life of chaos and mayhem. Most people just don't fit the bill.

This is the very reason that I suggested that you work on yourself and making yourself a strong, confident person. You cannot lose that way. You can still maintain some hope, as long as it doesn't become an expectation, and you'll be able to thrive either way.

A great first step on that journey is to take a long, hard look at your r/s with your pwBPD. Look at all that you experienced. Look at both the good and the bad. Give some serious thought about why you accepted the bad behaviors. Make lists if that's your thing. Do whatever works best for you to keep yourself focused on what actually happened during your time with your pwBPD.

Do you think that you can do that?

[TheRiddler]

Hey Meili

You're like a surgeon with a jackhammer.  I appreciate the effort but you're just not helping.

[Meili]

What would help TR? What can we do to help you in the way that you want to be helped?

[once removed]

you mention youre seeing a therapist; do you feel heard? are these matters being addressed in therapy? and what does your therapist say?

[TheRiddler]

The therapist isn't really helping, and neither is the psychiatrist. 

I'm caught up on being confused over recycling and cut off types vs boomerang types and the fact there's no rhyme or reason to any of this.  I don't know what to expect and I'm having lots of trouble with that.  I've been heavily researching BPD for the past1.5 years, and yet I still read and get affected by people's opinions even though it's pretty clear no one really has any idea what to expect.

I'm just looking for some way to know what to expect. 

And Meili, if you could not reply I'd appreciate it.

[once removed]

The therapist isn't really helping, and neither is the psychiatrist. 

why do you think that is?

[schwing]

Hi TheRiddler,

I'm caught up on being confused over recycling and cut off types vs boomerang types and the fact there's no rhyme or reason to any of this. 

It's really just up to the person with BPD (pwBPD) and what their choices are.  Is it convenient for them to recycle with previous relationships, or do they have a current replacement that is stable enough that it is unnecessary to recycle.  If you read around here, you'll see that while some BPD relationships last months, others can last for years or decades.  It also makes a difference what kind of mindset and background the nonBPD partner has.  All of them are unstable interpersonal relationships.  As much as we'd like to think pwBPD follow a specific script, their lives and choices can be as variable as anyone else's.

I don't know what to expect and I'm having lots of trouble with that. 

No one can see the future.  Why would you have trouble with that?

I've been heavily researching BPD for the past1.5 years, and yet I still read and get affected by people's opinions even though it's pretty clear no one really has any idea what to expect.

What are you looking for?  To understand BPD well enough that if you could do it all over again, this time you can get it right? 

In my experience, what pwBPD offer in order to seduce us into relationships are a mirage.  They are able to simulate what we imagine an ideal mate looks like for us, someone who offers redemption, a cure, heaven... .but what they want in return is that we give them the same thing.  Only we cannot.  We cannot fix their ills any more than they can fix ours.  What they offer is an illusion.  Is that what you are chasing?

And Meili, if you could not reply I'd appreciate it.

Why won't you consider what Meili is writing?  Are you looking for someone to tell you something that will be helpful *in getting unstuck* or do you only want someone to tell you what you want to hear?  What is it that you want to hear?

Do you want someone to tell you that in a few months your ex will get tired of the next guy and then she'll come looking for you again.  That all the other replacements she's going through have nothing on you.  It's just a matter of time before she realizes that she cannot get from them what she had with you.  What she had with you was... .what?  Real?

Are you here to detach?  Or are you here for something else?

Best wishes,

Schwing

[TheRiddler]

One thing I'm certainly looking for is tact and kindness, not overestimated credentials.  Every one has a really confident idea of just what a BPD person would do, it's just that it directly opposes every other idea.  I just feel like you guys are trying to pound "truth" into me.  That's noble, but I don't respond well to pointedly worded, hurtful comments, especially when they aren't necessarily rooted in any kind of legitimate expertise (not to downplay the experience of other posters). 

I don't know what board to be on, I feel like I should detach but I'm just not able, and that's disconcerting after 1.5 years.  I already went through a long time of barely thinking of her and being totally happy, but the feelings came back and I'm not even sure of the trigger.

[once removed]

I already went through a long time of barely thinking of her and being totally happy, but the feelings came back and I'm not even sure of the trigger.

you mentioned youve maintained a relationship with her mother, who is feeding you information. might that be triggering? is it helping?

[TheRiddler]

I hadn't spoken to her mother in like 1.25 years.  She wasn't the trigger.  Seeing the picture wasn't the trigger either... Not the main one anyway.  I just don't know, I just had to know what was going on with her.  I needed to find that picture though, or I would have kept looking.

[TheRiddler]

The thoughts on here about silence being a weapon hit a little too close to home, as I think my ex is a waif, but I don't know if this AJ woman is credible:

www.borderlinepersonality.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/07/borderline-pe-2.html

My ex wouldn't communicate her problems and if she did, it turned into a huge argument for no reason, or comments were so casual they didn't seem important.

[FannyB]

Hi TR

I'm about 1.5 years out too - so hope you don't mind me commenting. I was in a relationship for 11 months, 1 month break up then 3 month recycle. The recycle helped me as it proved to me beyond reasonable doubt that we couldn't have a future together. That said, I went into it not expecting it to last and certainly didn't pin any real hopes on us working out as I didn't want to risk emotional annihilation if the inevitable happened. 

Even after all this, I still soothed myself whilst detaching by envisaging a future together 'somewhere down the line'.  I've stayed in touch with my ex and seen how BPD has affected her relationship with her mother and her children. It's been a fascinating insight for me.  I still care for her but no longer harbour 'happy ever after' fantasies as a tool for managing any painful feelings I may still get from time to time.

We are all different, however, and must all find our own path to redemption. I am sure there are instances where borderline relationships have been rekindled and gone the distance. I'm also sure you know that if this did happen for you it would likely be a very bumpy ride. 

Nevertheless, if that hope of a second chance is all that is keeping you gong at the moment then it is your choice whether to keep hold of it or not. However, as there seems to be no realistic chance of it happening in the short term, it may be healthier to not rule the prospect out but to devote less mental effort to trying to make it happen i.e. be more open minded and less blody minded and hope fate swings things your way.


Best of luck


Fanny

[TheRiddler]

Hey Fanny,

That sounds good to me.  It's just when people write things like, "if that's all that's keeping you going... " I feel like it's such a long shot.

I've been thinking I would like to reconnect with her eventually, but only when I know she's not in a relationship.  I don't know a healthy way to go about that that'll allow me to maintain NC for my safety. 

[FannyB]

It's tricky mate. These relationships affect us in ways no other ever did.  The key is to keep yourself safe and get emotionally more centred whilst plotting your path forward. IMO you can't get a borderline to come back - you've just gotta get on with your life and wait and see if they try to reconnect. There are no hard and fast rules about this, but if you think about their emotional instability seeing a guy being strong, confident and resolute is likely to be more attractive to them than one who might come across as needy and insecure.

My ex, for example, contacts me whenever there's a crisis - not for me to fix it, but because she knows I will be supportive, validate her concerns and maybe come up with a way forward. 

We can't control what they do - but we can control how we live our lives.


All the best


Fanny

[seenr]

Hi TR

Just read all of this thread and I think I know how you feel. I had that long break up where my ex told me to get out of her life. I googled her, could see no sign of her with someone else, then boom after a year she contacted me.

After knowing her for so long, I still love her so much but cannot decide if her actions are truly evil or as a result of BPD/NPD and associated pain.so much of what she has done seems strange to me.

As for her getting married, many years ago I dated a girl for 18 months who moved on from me and married the next guy. It hurt, but since 2013 I have seen her and any time I do she looks so unhappy. She didn't have NPD or BPD but something about her told me she had an underlying unhappiness. Seeing her all these years on, looking so down, I think marriage did not make her happy. So even if your ex does marry, would it be forever, would it replace you?

With regard to being apart for so long, then feeling you want to reconcile, I get that. I have found myself going into a shutdown phase after her and I ended. It seemed like no matter what, I didn't want her in my life. Then boom something happens and I wanted to see her, almost obsession like. Long term would you like to see her, see if things will work, marry her?

Lastly, when I first began posting here I didn't like Meili's comments either but after re-reading them they forced me to confront some issues. I am not saying you should like them but as time has gone on I have found them useful & look forward to Meili's contributions.

[TheRiddler]

I appreciate Meili's thoughts too, but they're similar to the ultra negative things I already think.  I'm looking for opinions to balance me out, not compound my issues.

As for long term, I honestly couldn't marry her if she didn't get help. 

I posted this, in case you missed it:

I've been thinking I would like to reconnect with her eventually, but only when I know she's not in a relationship.  I don't know a healthy way to go about finding out when she's single that'll allow me to maintain NC for my safety, other than her mother.

[seenr]

I know how you feel.

I would love to reconnect with my ex too. But like you, I couldn't unless she got help. The last time we did couple's counselling, she was pregnant and any time I put my point across she began to cry and the counsellor stopped. I didn't want to hurt her either and I stopped. It became 100% about her and how awful I was. So I listened and accepted I was horrible... .The only way to ensure he was born safely.

These days I sincerely doubt she will get help. Before splitting I asked her to go for couple's counselling again and she agreed but then withdrew after being violent to me.

How does that relate to you? I get your dilemma. If her mother was able to guarantee 100% she was not in a relationship could you suggest therapy as a couple? At least there if she agreed she might see you as a possible partner and it would allow you a chance to speak 50% of the time. If there is a chance maybe you could pursue but my experience to date has been my ex simply not changing and insisting I am the problem. For that reason I am on week 7 completely no contact. I am refusing to allow her tell me how bad I am any time I collect our son.

I know this is tough - to date reconnecting has not worked for me so just letting you know that. That is not to say the same would happen to you.

Good luck!

I've been thinking I would like to reconnect with her eventually, but only when I know she's not in a relationship.  I don't know a healthy way to go about finding out when she's single that'll allow me to maintain NC for my safety, other than her mother.

[TheRiddler]

I'd have to say there's little chance she'd get therapy.  :/

[Turkish]

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