Formflier intervened in a bullying event...

[formflier]

Well... . something else happened that I couldn't let go.  I'll try to be clear about what I think and what i saw and know.

I think that lots of kids were outside with Mommy working on things around the yard and playing.  Apparently a van stopped in the road and honked to alert people that our 1 year old was walking down the road.  I believe uBPDw then grabbed S12, D8, and S6 and got them inside the house and to the back bedroom... . as far away from my location in the house as possible. (that may... or may not have played into her thinking)  I was vaguely aware that something was going on... . my ears perked up to pay attention... . but at this point I didn't know what was going on... . I had been inside the entire time.

I hear a massive series of whacks... . and children start screaming.  Listen... . when I grew up... . I earned many a whipping... . I don't think I ever got one I didn't deserve.  I have listened to some big whacks land on my rear... and that of my buddies that were involved in whatever was I was getting paddled for.  What I heard from across the house rivaled anything I have ever heard in my life... . the screaming that I heard from the children was the worst I have ever heard... . ever... . and there have been some incidents in the past several months.

I click on my recorder on my phone as I'm heading down the hall.  I arrive in the room to see the belt being used... . the swing was being used from as high in the air as she could get her hand... . and then being brought down onto a child.  I am not sure if I prevented one of the three from being spanked... . or if I arrived as last one was getting spanked.  The recording is hard to listen to... . big whacks... . and screams of multiple children.  If I had video... . I think I would have something provable... . I may now.

She tried to get ahold of D8 and had to let go of S12 to get to her.  I stood in fron of D8 and prevented Mommy from touching her.  She went back and grabbed S12 and kept hugging him.

I keep repeating in as calm a voice as I could that I believed Mommy and I should leave the room and have a private conversation.  She kept ordering me out... . saying I was the bully... . saying I was out of control... . etc etc etc

She kept asking S12 if he wanted Daddy to leave.  If Daddy was the problem... . S12 never spoke... . never.  I tried to point out that he obviously didn't want to talk... she would tug his head over on her shoulder and caress his head... . kiss his forehead... . tell him it would be ok. 

She finally tells S12 that they would go talk on porch.  I followed.  She still had an agitated look on her face... although it was better... . after about a 30 minute standoff in the bedroom.

Similar discussions went on while on front porch.  "S12... raise your right hand if you want Daddy to leave... . raise your left hand if you want Mommy to leave... . raise both if you want us both to leave" (this was Mommy talking).  He didn't flinch.  All the while the stroking... . kissing... caressing was going on.

Another 38 minutes on the front porch and the temperture had gone down.  Her face seemed more relaxed.

The entire time S18 was hovering around... watching.  I stated to the entire group and addressed S12 specifically and said the situation looked calmer... . that I would be just inside with the window open if I was needed.  I went inside... . the entire group stayed out there for another 10 or 15 minutes before coming inside.

I approached uBPDw and asked if we could have a private conversation... . she said she was getting ready for a shower and was "too busy" to talk.  I expressed that I thought a conversation about parenting was more important than a shower.  She disagreed.  I asked when we could talk in private and she said "Well... we have our appointment tomorrow (marriage counseling)"  I asked if she would like to ride separately or together.  She said she wanted to drive separately.  I said I would see her at 3pm tomorrow.  She sort of grunted... and I walked away.


Whew... . I have listened to some of the recordings.  Very clear.  Very distressing.  BPD behavior is in full swing. 

Now:  Action plan... . this is obviously going to come up in counseling.  I have put on my sheet that I think we need to have an agreement of no more physical discipline until our marriage and parenting issues are sorted out. 

No idea where that is going to go in counseling... . but I will not stand by while beatings like that continue in the house.  Not going to happen... .   I need help figuring out effective ways to work on this.

I will be calling my lawyer first thing in morning. 


More in a bit.

[KateCat]

Formflier, I'm very sorry to hear this. But it makes me bold enough to ask: do you think your wife suffers from psychosis, at least intermittently?

It might be that a lot of her actions (including recent financial moves that don't seem to make a lot of sense) take place because she truly believes you are her enemy, that you really have a secret family and operate dens of prostitution and so on. And maybe at times of acute stress like this evening she dissociates and is not really aware of her actions, but somehow feels she is protecting her children from you?

[formflier]

That would tend to make sense.  I will admit that I'm not nearly as up on all the psych terms as I should be.

When I was diagnosed with PTSD... . they asked if I cared about labels.  I told them I couldn't give a rip what you write down on the piece of paper... . but that I wanted to know how to make it better.  Improve my quality of life and function.

I'm still trying to stuff as much BPD knowledge in my head as I can... . but... . if anyone has other terms or things that they think I should learn about... . please... . be bold! and bring them up.

Formflier, I'm very sorry to hear this. But it makes me bold enough to ask: do you think your wife suffers from psychosis, at least intermittently?

It might be that a lot of her actions (including recent financial moves that don't seem to make a lot of sense) take place because she truly believes you are her enemy, that you really have a secret family and operate dens of prostitution and so on. And maybe at times of acute stress like this evening she dissociates and is not really aware of her actions, but somehow feels she is protecting her children from you?

[formflier]

 


Delusions - false beliefs, especially based on fear or suspicion of things that are not real.

Delusions are defined as beliefs that are not supported by the cultural or religious context and there is clear evidence that they are false - nevertheless, they are strong convictions that the patient believes in completely.4,14 Yep... evidence to the contrary only makes her "madder"

Non-bizarre delusions - false but feasible beliefs  This is what she has... . they could be possible... . and in her reasoning... there is usually a tiny grain of truth.  "You looked at the woman... . therefore you have a child together and hiding it from me.  You brought me her today to introduce me to her in some sick game.  (So yes I looked at the woman because she was breastfeeding in public with no cover... one of those militant types)  And... . wouldn't you know... . the baby's name was the same as my wife's.  So... . If I took my wife's SSN card... . I could "sneak" the child onto my insurance because of the same name... . and nobody would be the wiser... except my uBPDw... has once again "caught" me

Paranoid Personality Disorder - the individual is suspicious and distrustful to the extreme. They might think that they are being lied to or manipulated, friends, associates and colleagues cannot be trusted, they suspect any confidential information about them will be turned against them, they may believe that remarks most people would regard as innocent are laced with hidden meanings. Despite no evidence, they may suspect their partner/spouse is disloyal. This caught my eye... .

Borderline personality disorder - the individual has unstable and often intense relationships with other people. The person may have impulses to harm himself/herself and is emotionally unstable. this is all that was said about borderline on the page I was on

[KateCat]

It could be that your wife loses touch with reality, and the reaction of your children might indicate that this is not the first time they've experienced something like this.

How have you been accustomed to interpreting certain things your wife has said, like (if I remember correctly): the baby at another table in a restaurant is your secret love child because it has the same first name that your wife has; that a disused and derelict public space that is being reclaimed has been serving as your secret love nest; that your wife can't consult any mental health professionals in your state because they have all been influenced by you? Have you thought she was being eccentric? passive aggressive? manipulative in order to get something she wanted?

Or have you entertained the thought that your wife is mentally ill in a really big way? Like in a way that she can't control and that is not really open to negotiation or compromise? My husband is ill in this particular way, so it is very possible that I see paranoid delusions where they don't really exist. But this kind of rings a bell of familiarity with me.  :'(

ADDED: I cross posted with you and now see you're finding definitions. Good!

[formflier]

It could be that your wife loses touch with reality, and the reaction of your children might indicate that this is not the first time they've experienced something like this.

How have you been accustomed to interpreting certain things your wife has said, like (if I remember correctly): the baby at another table in a restaurant is your secret love child because it has the same first name that your wife has; that a disused and derelict public space that is being reclaimed has been serving as your secret love nest; that your wife can't consult any mental health professionals in your state because they have all been influenced by you? Have you thought she was being eccentric? passive aggressive? manipulative in order to get something she wanted?  I believe that she believed these things were either happening or were possible.  I think one of her goals is to get information.  I participated in... . for several years... . and unhealthy patterns where she says outlandish things... . I react and pleand my case and love for her... . once she is convinced that things are ok... . she drops the claim like it never happened.  It can come back at drop of a hat... . and she will forget she said she didn't believe it again.  She will later say weird things like... . if I really believed it... . I wouldn't be sleeping with you.  Asking the question if you didn't really believe it... . then why did you bring it up at 2am and talk about it for hours... . she would either avoid... . or say something like "so you don't want me to ask questions"   Pointing out a question and an accusation were different... . goes nowhere.

Or have you entertained the thought that your wife is mentally ill in a really big way? Like in a way that she can't control and that is not really open to negotiation or compromise?She is stone cold sober in thinking she is normal... and everyone else is screwed up.  Me especially... . but if the world would listen to her... . it would be in a better place. My husband is ill in this particular way, so it is very possible that I see paranoid delusions where they don't really exist. But this kind of rings a bell of familiarity with me.  :'(

If you can expand on what you have personally experienced... . I would like to listen and learn.  This scares the crap out of me... . but I have to face... . whatever it is

ADDED: I cross posted with you and now see you're finding definitions. Good! Thanks... what is "cross posting"... . sorry... . I still feel new to the message board thing

[KateCat]

I was slowly chugging along, getting ready to make my post, when the site software alerted me to the fact that you had added another post since the last one I had read. But I went ahead and "cross posted," without editing my post to reflect the fact that yours had preceded it. Kind of like going, "Meh! I'll post my somewhat redundant one anyway."

Let's see. In the last ten days or so, my husband 1) asked me if I have told anyone the passwords to his online financial accounts; 2) informed me that the neighbors have been going through our garbage (good luck to them, as every bit of paper that leaves our house has already seen the inside of a shredding machine ) 3) and complained that his co-workers know everything he's doing and saying on the weekends. This is the kind of stuff that leads to a diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia.

I believe there are lots of different variations of paranoia though. Is your wife only fixated on thoughts of you personally doing wrong to her? Or does she have suspicions about neighbors, fellow church goers, other parents, and so on?

This is really tough to deal with.

[KateCat]

Oh, and I just wanted to add that there's not likely any quick way to get a diagnosis of a particular type of delusional thinking. It took my husband's psychiatrist over six months before she was willing to make a formal diagnosis. She started her treatment/assessment with the label of "major depression" (probably "with psychotic features" and worked slowly from there. Many (most?) people with paranoia can think and behave quite normally in lots of contexts, all the while holding some strange, unshakable convictions.

I have heard that some people with borderline personality disorder are given certain antipsychotic medications to take on a sort of "as needed" basis, when stressful situations may cause them to fall into brief periods of delusion. So, though they do not have schizophrenia, they can benefit from some of the drugs used to treat it. 

[formflier]

I was slowly chugging along, getting ready to make my post, when the site software alerted me to the fact that you had added another post since the last one I had read. But I went ahead and "cross posted," without editing my post to reflect the fact that yours had preceded it. Kind of like going, "Meh! I'll post my somewhat redundant one anyway."

Let's see. In the last ten days or so, my husband 1) asked me if I have told anyone the passwords to his online financial accounts; 2) informed me that the neighbors have been going through our garbage (good luck to them, as every bit of paper that leaves our house has already seen the inside of a shredding machine ) 3) and complained that his co-workers know everything he's doing and saying on the weekends. This is the kind of stuff that leads to a diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia.

I believe there are lots of different variations of paranoia though. Is your wife only fixated on thoughts of you personally doing wrong to her? Or does she have suspicions about neighbors, fellow church goers, other parents, and so on?

Well... . occassionally she will say whacky things about others that has nothing to do with me... . but usually it has some connection to me and some sort of misdeed or trickery on my part.  There is certainly a worldview that says the world is wrotten... . becuase of trickery.  A month or two ago she got really stuck on saying that cows were better off than she was.  All they had to do was stand in field and chew... and feed their baby's... . don't have to worry about a man taking their baby away.  I tried to validate... . change the subject... . anything... . after a couple days it was dropped and never spoken of again.  We regularly take walks by fields of animals.  A very relaxing... . pastoral setting.

This is really tough to deal with. No kidding

Last... . she knows why people do things... . evidence to the contrary will be ignored.

[Grey Kitty]

Wow.

I'm very worried for you and your children.

Abuse does tend to escalate over time, and this is too much. If it escalates further, your children will be not just hurting, but injured.

I don't know where child protective services would draw the line at removing a parent, but this has to be close to it.

I understand that you have professional reasons to avoid involving law enforcement, this is getting beyond what you can handle on your own. What will happen while you are at work and your wife is home with your children?

It is time to protect your children. I'd recommend calling your local domestic violence hotline, just to figure out what options you have. How quickly can you get all 8 of your children out of the house? Can you get a motel room, or is there a shelter you can go to?

Hang in there, and don't think you have to do it all yourself. If you have friends and family you can trust to believe you and not side with your wife, call on them.

[Narellan]

I'm really sorry formflier. I've been following your posts and reading what you're going through. This post has really triggered me, and I couldn't read any replies. I just need to say " please get your children out of there"

This is child abuse and she is totally out of control. No more pussy footing with therapists and the like. Children's safety is paramount. Remove them and then work through the issues.

This is a reportable offence where I live.

I am sorry if I offend you. I work in an area of child protection and this has so many red flags its not funny. You could lose one of your children during a fit of hers like this. And then it's all just too late.

Please act now, talk later.

[sweetheart]

I am truly sad for the situation you are in for formflier, but like Narellan has said what you are talking about in your post is child abuse. If you do not intervene to protect your children from further abuse this makes you complicit in it, especially now you have posted and have been given some very clear feedback.

I make no apologies for the bluntness of my post, where children are concerned there are no grey areas to what you have outlined. Here in the UK when my dBPDh has been seriously dysregulated and I have involved the police, Child Protection are contacted as a matter of course even though our son was in bed asleep just to check all is as it should be. If my husband laid a finger on our son I would be gone, if he took a belt to him I would call the police myself.

Again just to reinforce what  Narellan said at the end of her post, you run the risk of having your children removed because as things stand they are not safe and it is your priority to ensure that they are.

[formflier]

It was not an easy nights sleep... but I did get a few hours.

I have gotten up even more determined.

Safety:  Luckily S18 is home from College.  D17 is here as well.  Already done with high school.  I will make sure they are around throughout the day to stay next to uBPDw... . and next to D3 and D1.

I will not leave home until I have looked at people in the face to make sure that nothing has escalated things this morning.

If so... . I won't leave.

Plans for today:  I need to sit in my lawyers office and show him what I have... . let him listen... . and face the facts about his opinions... . good for bad.  I think I have been smart to collect evidence.  I don't think I can allow any more escalation to collect evidence... .   Last night was bad... . really bad.

Counseling is not until 3pm... right now I intend to be there... but there are lots of phone calls and meetings before then.

Please pray for me today... . I have lots of major decisions to make... . lots of lives at stake.

I am truly sad for the situation you are in for formflier, but like Narellan has said what you are talking about in your post is child abuse. If you do not intervene to protect your children from further abuse this makes you complicit in it, especially now you have posted and have been given some very clear feedback.

I make no apologies for the bluntness of my post, where children are concerned there are no grey areas to what you have outlined. Here in the UK when my dBPDh has been seriously dysregulated and I have involved the police, Child Protection are contacted as a matter of course even though our son was in bed asleep just to check all is as it should be. If my husband laid a finger on our son I would be gone, if he took a belt to him I would call the police myself.

Again just to reinforce what  Narellan said at the end of her post, you run the risk of having your children removed because as things stand they are not safe and it is your priority to ensure that they are.

[formflier]

 

Oh yeah... . yes there is a public angle to this... . but if this costs a job... . it costs a job.

If it gets out that I was involved in this and did nothing... . that would be worse.  Not that I would hide it anyway.

Please continue to lay out options... . share concerns... . and things to think about.

[Narellan]

Im praying for you and your children Formflier. Hope it all goes to plan today.

[formflier]

Talk with lawyer went good.  No firm plans other than everything hinges on counseling appointment today.  If she owns behavior... agrees to safety plan... treatment... something to change her course... . then we will monitor.

If she tells us to stuff it... . she can discipline like she wants to... . etc etc... . then I will have to escalate. 

Lots more information to gather.  Sheriff dropping by my office in 20 minutes.  His world is about to get weird... .

In this moment... . the best advice I have gotten from this board is to stop making decisions in a FOG.  I did that for way too long.  If you are new to this board... . or my story seems similar to yours... . and you can't figure out what to do... . please do reading about FOG... . and how pwBPD use that.

I'm not good at pasting links... . still need to do homework on that.  If some senior guys can post some education links about FOG to this thread I would appreciate it.

Right now I "feel" secure that I am on the right path.  I'm focused.  I have a recording to shake me if I start to think that it wasn't that bad... . it was.  I have you guys to hole me accountable.  Also have some people in real life (if that is right term) that know as well.  I'm not turning back.

While I don't know exactly how today will turn out... . an unmonitored... . unrepentent... . untreated wife is not going back to house today to discipline as she pleases. 

[sweetheart]

You and your children are in my thoughts today formflier. 

[KateCat]

You are on the right path. Your attorney has given you excellent advice. (Advice that would be legally spot-on in my state.)

Things may briefly get way tougher, then quickly way better. Thank goodness you have your two older teenagers as resources at this time.

On this day after U.S. Memorial Day, I am thinking both of your past service to our country and of your current service to your family. You are a hero in my book.

[montanesa]

Praying for you guys, formflier.

Best of luck, and you're doing a great job!

[formflier]

 

Sheriff is a good Christian man... . gave great advice.

Same plan as lawyer. 

I probably don't have enough... . yet... . for an involuntary  committment.  The would most likely take her and release her quickly.  Not crossing that off the list... . he was just speaking from what he has seen.  My wife has refused to stop physical discipline... . but has NEVER made a threat of self harm or harm to others.  I don't believe she has the mental capacity to realize that her refusal to stop physical discipline is harmful.  The people I have talked to today say that the recording and her statments about continuing discipline will certainly be seen as "inappropriate"... . but they are not sure if that evidence is enough to keep her on involuntary committment. 

They are not saying it is not... . they gave examples of people and situations where there was an involuntary... . and I agree they are more extreme that what I am dealing with.  That's the facts... .

In counseling... . I must have agreement that no more physical discipline.  None.  We leave counseling and either drive to mental health center... . or we have been on the phone and set an appointment.  Wife must reach out for help... .

If either one of those doesn't happen... . I must escalate. 

I need to have a follow up conversation with lawyer to discuss Restraining Order versus DSS report. 

Thanks for the thoughts and prayers... . my life will change this afternoon... .

[Grey Kitty]

I'm think of you too.

I'm so sorry she pushed you to a limit like this. I'm impressed with how you are handling it.

I probably don't have enough... . yet... . for an involuntary  committment.

In counseling... . I must have agreement that no more physical discipline.  None.  We leave counseling and either drive to mental health center... . or we have been on the phone and set an appointment.  Wife must reach out for help... .

My suggestion is focus on protecting your children from your wife's actions. Getting treatment for your wife is secondary.

You said, involuntary commitment is unlikely. However, that isn't necessary to protect your children from her. Let me tell you an old family story.

Back years ago, a relative of mine who was kinda nutty (nobody ever diagnosed her that I know of) but did have angry outbursts, often at her son (~10yo at the time). She was yelling at him, violently through his bedroom door. He made a cassette recording and took it to the school counselor, who then called child protective services.

For months, maybe a year, she was prohibited from staying in the house with her son, and moved out to stay in their vacation home a couple hours away.

Either path protects your children. That is your first priority.

Getting your wife treated and healed is a second priority. It won't work unless she is willing to put effort in on her part--even if she is involuntarily committed, that has a maximum time period. (My guesses: 48 hours to make a determination/diagnosis? After that, 90 days?) But she has to work at getting better for any results other than having her out of the house to show up--In other words, you NEED HER COOPERATION.

So yes, encourage it. But insist on your kids safety. At this point, I'm not even sure I'd accept a promise on her part of no more physical discipline as sufficient.

[Grey Kitty]

One last thought for you: It is time for no more deals. Another story, this one is mine.

When my wife's BPD was at its worst, she escalating from verbal abuse of me to physical abuse of me. Eventually we named her behavior abusive. (Fortunately for me, she figured it out and admitted it to me, which sounds easier than your situation)

I drew one very hard line about the abuse:

Abuse is always about control. As the abuser, you have had too much control. As of now, the only issue we will address together is stopping your abuse. I do have personal issues to work on. If I involve you in them, I am ceding control to you. I will not do that. I refuse to have any discussions about "my side" of the problems until the abuse stops. I am not saying I won't work on my own issues, only that you are not involved in it at all.

I told her pretty much these very words. I stuck with them. She didn't like it, but whenever she tried to bring the subject to how I needed to change, I just said that it was none of her business right now, and referred back to this.

So she needs to stop the abuse, and get whatever treatment needed to stop the abuse. This isn't negotiable, and I don't think you should offer her any deals for compliance here.

[formflier]

 thanks... this is good information

[KateCat]

You've got your attorney, the sheriff, and GreyKitty all giving fine advice.

I just want to add that I have some basic knowledge of involuntary commitment issues in my state from working in the county prosecutor's office, and that is indeed a route you can most likely take off the table at this time. It's usually nothing more than an emergency hold, in a life or death situation, to protect all parties for, really, a matter of hours (72 maximum in my state). Kind of just enough for the person to emerge from a psychotic or suicidal state.

[GaGrl]

You are much on my mind today, formflier.

My DH's ex (uNPD/BPD) escalated her behavior over the years of a long and unhappy marriage.  For a long time, the issue was between the two of them, i.e., her constant and blatant infidelities (at one point, her behavior with an enlisted man on post cost DH his command; she did not believe DH that her behavior was the reason until another officer's wife told her it was her fault).

It was when their adopted daughter (the ex's niece brought over from Thailand at age 13) began moving into her teens that the ex started physically abusing the adopted daughter.  Mind you, she had been somewhat neglectful sometimes with the other two children, sometimes verbally inappropriate, but never physically abusive.

The worst event was when AD16 (Adopted Daughter) was caught letting her beautiful, long hair out of the clip once she left the house to go to school.  In their culture, young ladies do not wear their hair loose past a certain age.  Well, AD16 wanted to wear her hair like the other girls at school (of course), and so she took it down on the bus and put it back up before coming home.  Somehow, the ex caught her, went ballistic and raged, and ended up holding down AD16 and forcefully chopped her hair short using a pair of sewing shears.  The school counselor became involved and a CPS investigation took place that effectively backed the ex off of further physical actions.  AD16 turned 18 and left home immediately.  DD left home as soon as she turned 17 and lived with her boyfriend while she finished high school (the sheriff told DH that they cannot force a 17 year old to return home).

I think when I heard this, I really understood how destructive the ex had been to the overall family health.  (Well, that and the fact that the then-12 year old daughter had walked out of her room one night to find her mother "having it on" with the latest boyfriend -- DH was coming home from his latest assignment only on weekend at that time.  The child wrote her father a heartbreaking letter and listed every man she knew her mother had gone out with.)

How did this all end?  Before the girls left, DH felt he had to be in the house 24/7.  His next assignment was an unaccompanied XO position in Central America, and he turned it down and went from active to reserve.  It effectively ended his active career, but at the time, the children took precedence.  He simply did not trust that he could leave 3 teens with her for 2 years and trust that they would be safe, or make it through school.  As it was, the girls left as quickly as they legally could.  They continue to have a stressful relationship with her.  We, on the other hand, have the opposite sitatuion -- loving, trusting, supportive.

[Narellan]

Formflier good for you taking action and putting a plan in place.

I do think tho that whilst she's in a rage she has zero control and lots of learnt physical responses, so even if she agrees to no physical punishment what she knows will take over if she's enraged. I wouldn't trust a verbal agreement from her.

I'm so sad for you going through this.

You are in my prayers tonight. X

[KateCat]

I do think tho that whilst she's in a rage she has zero control and lots of learnt physical responses

I would suspect this to be true, too. And I think this state of being may be one of those psychologists refer to as "dissociation." A powerful state beyond normal human controls.

[formflier]

I haven't read this string... . will get back to it later.  Below is a quick update on me... Please continue praying for me



Quick update.

Counseling was so so.  She verbally agreed to no physical discipline and a weak promise to be evaluated at some point in late June... . after I have yet another evaluation.

I asked for it in writing... . did not say "or else"... . but told her I feared for safety and that I was uncomfortable with this not being in writing.

She has broken word many times.

On way home (different cars)... . we stopped and and I implored her to put this in writing and commit to going for an evaluation tomorrow... with me.  We'll both go.  She patted my hand said there was no problem.

I called her from outside the door... . and implored her to reconsider... . that I loved her... . that I wanted to heal family but the refusal to be accountable for the committments was worrisome.  She again said there was NO issue here. 

I walked in and puked my guts out to DSS. 

I will have no way of knowing if our marriage counselor made the report as well.  If it was me... . I would.

I have been a mandatory reporter for years... . so I am aware.

I can't force anyone to do anything about this... . but my conscience is clear... . that I didn't keep a secret and I focused on my kids safety.

Lawyer and I had several talks.  Possible RO tomorrow... . he wants to keep it therapeutic... . a medical and non legal issue... . but... . realizes that this can not be allowed to fester.

Sigh... . thanks for the support.  Not sure if anyone will show up tonight or tomorrow.

Initial reaction from DSS is that this is clearly inappropriate discipline and supervision... . whether it rises to the next level depends on if marks found etc etc

I'm tired... . but I believe I have taken a correct step.  I need to keep centered and focused on next several days.

[KateCat]

Bravo! With one day's work and courage you have reduced the odds of losing your kids, losing your job, or being arrested on false allegations of spousal abuse by a great margin.  A fateful day, but one that had to come.

[Grey Kitty]

  Formflier, you are looking right in the teeth of really tough choices, where there are no good outcomes, and picking the one that seems best.

The situation is still touchy and scary. I wish you both strength and luck.