Why did she keep the ring?

[JRT]

I am happy to report that I am turning the corner very nicely on recovering from my b/u with my BPD fiance. Not long after she had moved in, she had done a disappearing act, notified me via text and I have not spoken with her since the night before, 105 days now. Even though I feel a whole lot better, some things remain a mystery and I find myself trying to figure them out (even if it is within the context of mental illness).

The engagement ring has little value. It was a cheapo silver band that I bought as a 'place holder' while the permanent ring was getting made. So why did she keep it? It would seem to me that a greater communication of finality would have been to leave it. Any guesses?

I have a habit of putting sappy greeting cards that people send me on the fridge. She also took all of the ones that she had sent me with her as well. I didn't see the point in this.

Meanwhile, she left a significant amount of property at my house, not just old t shirts and a tooth brush, there is some really valuable if not priceless stuff here that she left.

Does anyone have a similar experience?

[Tim300]

Most likely I think she acted so impulsively that there is no rational explanation for any of this.  Oftentimes my BPD ex-fiancee seemed to not even understand what she was doing or what she had just done.

Or she intentionally wanted to keep some connections in hopes that either of you could take the initiative to try to repair things.   

[Ripped Heart]

There is some element of truth in what Tim300 is saying around keeping connections open.

I've been involved in quite the push/pull dynamic over the past several weeks. At some point we have both said it's over but then it goes on like nothing has happened but get too close and she distances herself. Despite all of this, there are 2 material things in the middle of this dynamic, she has a key to my place and I have some of her things.

The key has been used after a period of NC when we both said it was over. She started a conversation asking for an address to return the key to and the moment I gave her an address she needed to talk to me.

A couple of days later, she recieved a package that she wasn't around to sign for and called me in a panic. I think she believed it was her things being posted back to her which triggered a panic attack. Turns out it was something else.

Last week she was having a rough day and I drove down to take her out for a meal. There were a few things I had left at her house at Christmas which I needed so I brought them back with me. She asked me if there was anything else I needed and kept glancing at the key. I know she was desperately hoping I didn't say I needed my key back because that keeps her connection alive right now.

I asked a short time ago about whether pwBPD believe we think the way they do. Part of that was that a few months ago my gf found a gift in one of my storage boxes that my exN/BPDw had given me. I didn't even know I had it and there is no sentimental value for me. It was one of the only few times she did ever get me anything and it was something practical for work. It really upset BPDgf that I had it though because to her it meant I was going to leave her and run back to exN/BPDw. That kind of gave me an insight to how she thought about things.

[JRT]

I see how that works and how they use it as an option. Mine had done this during previous minor recycles and used property and other 'unfinished business' as legitimate reasons to initiate conversations. This one, however was the Mother of recycles where she has blocked every conceivable way to make contact (even for her) and has offended many people. I offered to return the stuff I have of hers (highly invaluable) through a friend but insisted that my ex and only my ex call, make arrangements and provide an explanation for her actions (she did a disappearing act with no provocation like an argument or anything like that, it was out of nowhere). I gave a deadline of last weekend and heard nothing back. I suspect her pain and shame being so great that ANY kind of contact with me would be excruciating to the extent that she was willing allow me to throw her things away to forgo having to look me in the eye.

So I wonder if her 'plan' sort of backfired on her where maybe it was her plan to exercise one of these options but she constructed her walls so high and tough that there was no way that she would be able to use her property as an option to reconnect.

Any guess why she took the sappy cards off of the fridge? 

[billypilgrim]

Mine kept the keys to the house.  Still haven't gotten those back despite having asked specifically for them back a couple of times.  I've since changed the locks so it doesn't matter but I did find it odd.  She also kept her wedding rings but I suppose that's normal?  Not that I really care, I've already sold my wedding band.

Mine also left a good chunk of her personal stuff.  Some of it valuable, like her camera and iPod.  She left some clothes.  She left stuff from previous relationships (which was news to me that she even held onto this crap).  Even a couple of items that she "prized" - family hand-me-down kind of stuff.  

I've wondered about what Tim300 said about keeping connections open.  I really don't know.  I can't imagine her coming back with the way she left, the fact that we have legally separated and the fact that she's moved on to some other guy.  I think it would have been just one more inconvenience for her to try to return keys or come back and get all the other crap she didn't take in the 2 days she used to move out.

I'm inclined to agree with the impulsive way of thinking.  In the mad dash to get everything and get out, certain things just didn't make the cut.  It's hard to pack up 6 years in 2 days.  

[myself]

Mine also kept the ring. Or should I say she didn't give it back and I don't know what she's done with it. Stuffed it in the bottom of a drawer? Run it over with her car? To really hurt me, which she admitted she chose to do sometimes, she would have sent it back. That may have even helped with my own closure. Maybe she hangs onto it like it's a life preserver she can turn to when feeling no one cares about her/ the world's against her. At least someone at one time had loved her that much. She's probably in too much denial, anger and shame to have it in a place of constant honor (like the finger it was meant for). It'll never mean the same again anyway.

[JRT]

I find some similarities... .the keys to the front door and my garage door opener (same thing)... .clothes... .and an entire trunk of non-replaceable family memorabilia... .she left in a hurry there is no doubt and even I didn't notice the trunk until a few weeks later, but even if was ONLY the garage door opener or if she only left a few pieces of clothing... .I think that it is a kind of life line back to us even if the intention was to not exercise it necessarily

How long has it been seen they moved out?

[Ripped Heart]

I have to admit that I kept my wedding ring. The reason being that at the end of the day, I ended up paying for them and due to exN/BPDw's expensive tastes, it cost a fortune but it was a beautiful ring. I keep for those reasons, not for what it symbolised.

As for taking the cards, I can only speculate. I know exN/BPDw also kept things like that from her previous r/s. She said it was for her daughter but I often thought it was to keep a connection for her and even though her previous bf went strictly NC I think she liked to think he once cared and it keeps her from internal overload.

[JRT]

I could see that... .but the ring that I bought her was purely symbolic and almost valueless-she wanted one made and couldn't have it made in time for me to propose on the trip we went on so I bought a cheap sterling band. She was definitely thinking SOMETHING about that ring.

It just occurred as you were saying it about the cards. The trunk that she left has a TON of greeting cards in it. I didn't go through the trunk but I wonder if there are cards from her other exes in there and she had planned on incorporating the fridge cards into the steamer trunk. Hmmmmm. I'm out of town right now but I can tell you what I am going to do when I get home... .

[billypilgrim]

How long has it been seen they moved out?

2.5 months ago.

She also left a bunch of stuff that she told me that she was going to take.  Like some of the art and decorations in the house.  Did she change her mind?  Run out of room?  Run out of time?  Don't really care, I bought most of the stuff anyhow.  And I like most of it, gosh darn it.

[JRT]

What does your gut tell you about what her thinking was and if you will every be recycled? Were you recycled before? At 2.5 months, I imagine that anything can be expected.

[billypilgrim]

Here's what I know:

-She has recycled a lot of her relationships.  The guy she wound up with after me was an ex.

-She got some crappy advice from her dBPD mother - when she left, she went to her mother's house and her mom basically told her that she could always come back.  That she could always break a lease if she got a new place.  Separation papers could be voided.  Nevermind how billypilgrim may feel about all of this.  

-She blamed me for everything, via e-mail no less.  She apparently had been keeping score our entire time together and brought up each little incident in which I got knocked down on a notch of the pedestal.  This list of grievances included things that happened 5 years ago, before we were even engaged.

-Since I told her to leave me alone, she has respected my no contact wish.  She continued to contact me after she left.  Filling me in on family details.  Asking if I was going to sell the house.  Stuff like that.  After about 2 weeks, I said do not contact me please.

Here's what my gut says:

-I don't know why but I really don't think I'll hear from her again.  At least not in recycling sort of way.  She is still driving a car around in my name so I'll have to sign some paperwork once she finally gets around to switching the title over.  So some sort of contact will need to happen then.  And then one more time when the divorce is final.

-I did have a feeling a couple of days ago that she was going to reach out.  I don't know why, just sort of one of those feelings in the bottom of your stomach.  I haven't heard from her, however, and that feeling has since passed.

-Something seems very final about all of this.  Again, I can't put a reason on it but things just feel over.  Maybe that's just how things are for me.  There's nothing predictable about her but for me, it's over.  I think all of this stuff she left is now my stuff.


But every time I say the above out loud or write it out, I get reminded of what my T said. Even some of my friends have echoed the same sentiments.  Each have said on a number of occasions that she might try to come back.  And that I need to be ready.  But for some reason I just don't think I need to be ready.

[JRT]

Well... .what do you WANT to have happen? Meaning, most of the threads that I have read are by people who, though wounded and hurt, I suspect most that wish that there was some salvation... .some hope that SOMETHING good can become of it. I know that that is how I feel and there is very little likelihood of that happening (in my case where there was one very serious issue to overcome, there are now 5). Its fuunny, where yours seems final by your instinct, on mine it seems not final but LOOKS about as final as final can be.

You sound like on all fronts, that you can't wait until she is gone and you never see her ever again. Is that right?

[Ripped Heart]

If there is one thing I've learned it's that a r/s with a pwBPD often defies all logic and based on that, what seems logical in terms of them not re-engaging often comes out of left field.

After I managed to get out of my highly destructive and abusive marriage, my T (who also treated my exN/BPDw for a short time) asked me what i was going to do WHEN she tried to re-engage. Given how it all ended, she was the one who hit me with divorce papers, had a replacement lined up, was nasty, violent and highly abusive. Raged at T after I went blaming him for everything, launched horrible smear campaigns, filed false charges which backfired, told everyone she possibly could that I was never to contact her again or she would contact the police if I did and a whole host more.

So when T asked what I would do when she re-engaged, I laughed. 3 years on and she is still making attempts, sometimes directly, sometimes indirectly, used other members of her family to try contact me, used friends, contacted my family etc... .I've remained strictly NC since I left but it just goes to show, never say never.

[Turkish]

Mine kept her ring, too. It was a sub-$1k gemstone ring. We had agreed on it. It was a gemstone of her favorite color, quite beautiful.

After she moved out, I found all sorts of things from a previous r/s (a guy who left her, but with whom she was still madly in love with idealizing up until we had S4. I also found a letter by the bf after that guy, but before me. She ended up getting an RO against him, and I know she never loved that guy. He sounded NPD.

So what does it go back to? Attachments. While keeping an engagement ring isn't indicative of BPD, it may be something to hold onto. A way to reminisce when she starts ruminating.

That being said, I found things that I'm sure mine hadn't broken out and really looked at in years. It could be just foregetfulness, too. Stuff it away, and forget about it. We could go crazy trying to figure out every little thing, and as my T said, "let's not be too quick to assign every little behavior to some PD."

[billypilgrim]

Well... .what do you WANT to have happen?

I suppose some part of me would like a little more closure.  The end to my marriage was explained via e-mail.  How pathetic is that?  And by explained, I mean she wrote me a 2 page e-mail in which she brought up 7 things I did wrong in our 6 years together.  Though I know there are a lot of folks here that didn't even get an e-mail, their partners just vanished.  

But mostly, I really want to fast forward to when the divorce is final.  I know I have a lot of introspection left to do.  But I can do that as a single man.  My state needs to update it's divorce laws to have a BPD clause so that folks that want to tuck and run aren't stuck in this weird purgatory that most married folks use to try to reconcile.  

You sound like on all fronts, that you can't wait until she is gone and you never see her ever again. Is that right?

That sums it up pretty nicely.  I've seen the devastation it can cause and once I got to the point of accepting that she has a PD and there's nothing I can do about it, I really turned a corner.  My uncle is married to a pwBPD and I've seen the nights with the cops, the late night trips to the ER, and all of the other crazy sorts of things you read on this site.  And I was heading down that same path, faster than I even realized at the time.  Some of the behaviors I put up with were familiar to me and didn't raise the alarms that they should have (and will next time).  The billypilgrim family apparently has a pretty dominant rescuing gene.  But ultimately, BPD is bigger than me, her, and everybody else and accepting that makes the bargaining much easier to deal with.  

You are right, I don't want to see her again.  Not out of fear, not out of anxiety, not out of curiosity.  But because she is someone that I do not wish to associate with.  I don't want to have anything to do with someone that can do what she is capable of doing to other people, PD notwithstanding.  She can't form the sorts of relationships that I want my life to have in it.  It's not my job to stick around to see her get help and I'm certainly not obligated to do anything else for her.  I've done enough.

[JRT]

If there is one thing I've learned it's that a r/s with a pwBPD often defies all logic and based on that, what seems logical in terms of them not re-engaging often comes out of left field.

After I managed to get out of my highly destructive and abusive marriage, my T (who also treated my exN/BPDw for a short time) asked me what i was going to do WHEN she tried to re-engage. Given how it all ended, she was the one who hit me with divorce papers, had a replacement lined up, was nasty, violent and highly abusive. Raged at T after I went blaming him for everything, launched horrible smear campaigns, filed false charges which backfired, told everyone she possibly could that I was never to contact her again or she would contact the police if I did and a whole host more.

So when T asked what I would do when she re-engaged, I laughed. 3 years on and she is still making attempts, sometimes directly, sometimes indirectly, used other members of her family to try contact me, used friends, contacted my family etc... .I've remained strictly NC since I left but it just goes to show, never say never.

So you believe that this is a ruse then?... .a reason to contact me when she feels safe or wants to recycle? It just seems so out of the question right now. I tired to contact her on Xmas and she called the cops! I am blocked via phone, text, social media (though I confirmed that she has been stalking me) and even email! Most of the accounts that I read about has the BPD aggressively making contact. Have you heard anyone mention one like mine that pushes, does the silent treatment and then reappears? I guess mine has done that before but those were light versions of what she did this time. The other recycles were like sparklers. This one was an atom bomb.  

[JRT]

Mine kept her ring, too. It was a sub-$1k gemstone ring. We had agreed on it. It was a gemstone of her favorite color, quite beautiful.

After she moved out, I found all sorts of things from a previous r/s (a guy who left her, but with whom she was still madly in love with idealizing up until we had S4. I also found a letter by the bf after that guy, but before me. She ended up getting an RO against him, and I know she never loved that guy. He sounded NPD.

So what does it go back to? Attachments. While keeping an engagement ring isn't indicative of BPD, it may be something to hold onto. A way to reminisce when she starts ruminating.

That being said, I found things that I'm sure mine hadn't broken out and really looked at in years. It could be just foregetfulness, too. Stuff it away, and forget about it. We could go crazy trying to figure out every little thing, and as my T said, "let's not be too quick to assign every little behavior to some PD."

Good point. Leaving stuff behind or keeping a ring might just be her own personal quirk. But in my case, I believe that they have meaning. I have spoken to women where they feel that a ring from a broken marriage orr engagement represents pain - its almost unanimous that they all want to get rid of it usually by giving it back. I am sure that it has meaning, butt agree that it is not necessarily BPD.

[JRT]

Well... .what do you WANT to have happen?

I suppose some part of me would like a little more closure.  The end to my marriage was explained via e-mail.  How pathetic is that?  And by explained, I mean she wrote me a 2 page e-mail in which she brought up 7 things I did wrong in our 6 years together.  Though I know there are a lot of folks here that didn't even get an e-mail, their partners just vanished.  

But mostly, I really want to fast forward to when the divorce is final.  I know I have a lot of introspection left to do.  But I can do that as a single man.  My state needs to update it's divorce laws to have a BPD clause so that folks that want to tuck and run aren't stuck in this weird purgatory that most married folks use to try to reconcile.  

You sound like on all fronts, that you can't wait until she is gone and you never see her ever again. Is that right?

That sums it up pretty nicely.  I've seen the devastation it can cause and once I got to the point of accepting that she has a PD and there's nothing I can do about it, I really turned a corner.  My uncle is married to a pwBPD and I've seen the nights with the cops, the late night trips to the ER, and all of the other crazy sorts of things you read on this site.  And I was heading down that same path, faster than I even realized at the time.  Some of the behaviors I put up with were familiar to me and didn't raise the alarms that they should have (and will next time).  The billypilgrim family apparently has a pretty dominant rescuing gene.  But ultimately, BPD is bigger than me, her, and everybody else and accepting that makes the bargaining much easier to deal with.  

You are right, I don't want to see her again.  Not out of fear, not out of anxiety, not out of curiosity.  But because she is someone that I do not wish to associate with.  I don't want to have anything to do with someone that can do what she is capable of doing to other people, PD notwithstanding.  She can't form the sorts of relationships that I want my life to have in it.  It's not my job to stick around to see her get help and I'm certainly not obligated to do anything else for her.  I've done enough.

I admire your determination to do the right thing for you. Some of us are no so clear of thought in this regard! I really hope that you gett the closure that you seek as well, thats what I want as well.

All was going well in my 2 year relationship. She had just moved into my house and had been there for 3 weeks (stress) Her 18 year old son had moved out (trigger-abandonment). I went out of town on business leaving her all alone for the first time in 18 years (abandonment). We began to plan our wedding and I recall telling her how incredibly happy I was. We were discussing future plans both short term and long. There were no arguments - we NEVER fought. She NEVER told me that she was unhappy about anything (she is a waif type BPD).

I left for business and got the usual texts in the morning and one in the afternoon that said... .'our relationship is over... .I have moved out... .DON"T try to contact me'. With that, she blocked me from every imaginable way of getting in touch with her. Even when one attempt to circumvent those blocks by, say, calling from a hotel phone was met with a call from the police and an angry letter from an attorney.

I want closure right now so badly that I can taste it... .but it ain't looking like it will come any time soon.

[billypilgrim]

some hope that SOMETHING good can become of it. I know that that is how I feel and there is very little likelihood of that happening (in my case where there was one very serious issue to overcome, there are now 5).

So what are your next steps?  You say you want good to come from this.  What kind of good does that look like?  What does that mean needs to happen from her?  What needs to change/happen with you?  Is it realistic?  Is it healthy?  Is it something that you truly want for yourself?

[Ripped Heart]

Not necessarily a ruse JRT. My exw was high functioning NPD/BPD. My gf is low functioning BPD waif and very different. I get the push/silent treatment and then a phone call in tears.

Like Turkish says, these traits aren't necessarily BPD related as we all exhibit certain traits from our own environments, FOO and upbringing.

So given that, it isn't necessarily a ruse but could in future act as a trigger in the future that may cause her to re-engage.

I found out about BPDgf infidelity on New Years Eve and ended the r/s. A few hours later I got a text to say she was ending the r/s because her heart wasn't in it. Went NC and 3 days later got the email about returning keys, responded with an address and she begged me to speak to her. I said nothing more to be said and then got a suicide threat through. I gave in and spoke to her, she was remembering some of the places I took her last year and wanted to do that again. R/s back on, 2 days later I get complete silence, then get another call because she is upset. I take her out for dinner because she hasn't eaten in several days. Silence again for 2 days and then texts like nothing has happened.

Right now, it's remembering all the things I did for her that keeps triggering because nobody has ever done that for her in her life so as much as she tries to let go, she cant.

[downwhim]

JRT,

Whether the ring was silver or a diamond, temporary or permanent, you proposed and BPD or not it meant something to her. The cards were personal too and she felt she didn't want them on the frig any more but in her possession.They like to keep stuff. Mine kept my slippers from previous recycle but used my pj's for a rag for his car! He has kept all my cards and all the pictures of us over 8 years in a box in his closet. It is weird - sentimental and attached.

I refused to give his ring back. It is mine and it meant a lot to me when we got engaged. I went through 8 years of recycle, good times and bad. I am not using it as bait either.

[JRT]

some hope that SOMETHING good can become of it. I know that that is how I feel and there is very little likelihood of that happening (in my case where there was one very serious issue to overcome, there are now 5).

So what are your next steps?  You say you want good to come from this.  What kind of good does that look like?  What does that mean needs to happen from her?  What needs to change/happen with you?  Is it realistic?  Is it healthy?  Is it something that you truly want for yourself?

I don't have many cards to play. I pondered having my lawyer send a letter to hears demanding my property back and warning them that if she refuses to stop stalking me on FB,  or using her friends log ons there and elsewhere, that I will seek a PPO against her and her son (he saw me at the mall and threatened me under his breath)... .its one card to play but pretty much the only one. If my goal is for her to contact me for closure, I don't think that this will induce anything except taking the power away that she believes herself to have.

The other card is predicated upon the type of person that I am. I am always the peacemaker coupled with an insane level of persistence. I am pretty sure that once she recognizes that I don't care any longer (and that means NOT taking legal action), then it will freak her out. The relationship is over but her attachment is damaged. Other than that, there is not make I CAN do.

The good that CAN come of it is for me to have closure as well as my daughter. She can also have a friend. Or more but that is wishful thinking at this point. As I understand it, she is seeing a therapist though I am sure its because I was some psychotic manipulator that turned her into a pyromaniac or something crazy like that. I hope that she is seeing one that can see through the smokescreen. If she has accepted that she has a problem, committed herself to therapy then I am willing to listen (willing to listen being operative). I want a troublefree relationship but I am NEVER going to have that... .I am NOT afraid of work. All good things are because of it.

[billypilgrim]

I admire your determination to do the right thing for you. Some of us are no so clear of thought in this regard! I really hope that you gett the closure that you seek as well, thats what I want as well.

Same to you friend.  The abruptness of how some of these relationships end can really throw us and leave us scratching our heads while trying to pick up the pieces.  You can really wear yourself out trying to keep up.

All was going well in my 2 year relationship. She had just moved into my house and had been there for 3 weeks (stress) Her 18 year old son had moved out (trigger-abandonment). I went out of town on business leaving her all alone for the first time in 18 years (abandonment). We began to plan our wedding and I recall telling her how incredibly happy I was. We were discussing future plans both short term and long. There were no arguments - we NEVER fought. She NEVER told me that she was unhappy about anything (she is a waif type BPD).

Sounds very similar to my story - we were a couple of months away from kids.  She was off B/C and was taking pre-natal vitamins.  We had names picked out.  We were going to buy a new house to make room.  The whole nine yards.  I dodged a bullet there, a kid with her would have formed a forever connection with her.  And it likely would have led to a 4th generation BPD.  We did fight, rarely, but we fought.  Mostly it was her complaining about something I didn't do right.  Or pouting about not getting enough attention.  Or me not loving her enough.  Or me doing stuff without her or doing something she wasn't interested in.  I do not miss those tantrums.  

But then one Saturday morning that all changed.  She woke up, said she had a pit in her stomach, went to her mom's, came back 4 hours later and left.  The explanation e-mail came about a week later.  She had a new apartment a day or two after that.  Separation papers were signed a couple days after that.  With her replacement about a week after that.  We went from being married and planning kids together to having completely separate lives in a little less than 4 weeks.  

As for wanting closure, it gets easier.  At some point I realized that I needed to be responsible for the closure that I wasn't given.  So I did.  I found a lot through reading this site and the small library of cluster b material I now own.  I found a lot through therapy.  But most of all, I've found a lot through forming a new life for myself.  Sure, I think a part of me wants her to just say "Look billypilgrim, I'm just like my mom.  You were good to me and you loved me like no one else has.  There's nothing else you could have done.  I'm sick and I'm going to get help for myself.  Thank you for everything you did for us." But I already know all of this.  I don't need to hear it. Feelings are stubborn and are always so slow to catch up to what you know.  

[JRT]

Not necessarily a ruse JRT. My exw was high functioning NPD/BPD. My gf is low functioning BPD waif and very different. I get the push/silent treatment and then a phone call in tears.

Like Turkish says, these traits aren't necessarily BPD related as we all exhibit certain traits from our own environments, FOO and upbringing.

So given that, it isn't necessarily a ruse but could in future act as a trigger in the future that may cause her to re-engage.

I found out about BPDgf infidelity on New Years Eve and ended the r/s. A few hours later I got a text to say she was ending the r/s because her heart wasn't in it. Went NC and 3 days later got the email about returning keys, responded with an address and she begged me to speak to her. I said nothing more to be said and then got a suicide threat through. I gave in and spoke to her, she was remembering some of the places I took her last year and wanted to do that again. R/s back on, 2 days later I get complete silence, then get another call because she is upset. I take her out for dinner because she hasn't eaten in several days. Silence again for 2 days and then texts like nothing has happened.

Right now, it's remembering all the things I did for her that keeps triggering because nobody has ever done that for her in her life so as much as she tries to let go, she cant.

Holy Cow! What a roller coaster ride... .sorry that you are going through that!

[JRT]

JRT,

Whether the ring was silver or a diamond, temporary or permanent, you proposed and BPD or not it meant something to her. The cards were personal too and she felt she didn't want them on the frig any more but in her possession.They like to keep stuff. Mine kept my slippers from previous recycle but used my pj's for a rag for his car! He has kept all my cards and all the pictures of us over 8 years in a box in his closet. It is weird - sentimental and attached.

I refused to give his ring back. It is mine and it meant a lot to me when we got engaged. I went through 8 years of recycle, good times and bad. I am not using it as bait either.

Well thats very interesting to me then. So do they put this stuff away and just store it, or do they keep it handy and look at it? Is it like snow globes from summer vacations or is the stuff highly meaningful? I have a hard time reconciling the sentimentality against the anger that she is now displaying to the extent that she is willing to legally besmirch me to prevent contact.

She had a really hard time sleeping... .I can now see why.

[JRT]

I admire your determination to do the right thing for you. Some of us are no so clear of thought in this regard! I really hope that you gett the closure that you seek as well, thats what I want as well.

Same to you friend.  The abruptness of how some of these relationships end can really throw us and leave us scratching our heads while trying to pick up the pieces.  You can really wear yourself out trying to keep up.

All was going well in my 2 year relationship. She had just moved into my house and had been there for 3 weeks (stress) Her 18 year old son had moved out (trigger-abandonment). I went out of town on business leaving her all alone for the first time in 18 years (abandonment). We began to plan our wedding and I recall telling her how incredibly happy I was. We were discussing future plans both short term and long. There were no arguments - we NEVER fought. She NEVER told me that she was unhappy about anything (she is a waif type BPD).

Sounds very similar to my story - we were a couple of months away from kids.  She was off B/C and was taking pre-natal vitamins.  We had names picked out.  We were going to buy a new house to make room.  The whole nine yards.  I dodged a bullet there, a kid with her would have formed a forever connection with her.  And it likely would have led to a 4th generation BPD.  We did fight, rarely, but we fought.  Mostly it was her complaining about something I didn't do right.  Or pouting about not getting enough attention.  Or me not loving her enough.  Or me doing stuff without her or doing something she wasn't interested in.  I do not miss those tantrums.  

But then one Saturday morning that all changed.  She woke up, said she had a pit in her stomach, went to her mom's, came back 4 hours later and left.  The explanation e-mail came about a week later.  She had a new apartment a day or two after that.  Separation papers were signed a couple days after that.  With her replacement about a week after that.  We went from being married and planning kids together to having completely separate lives in a little less than 4 weeks.  

As for wanting closure, it gets easier.  At some point I realized that I needed to be responsible for the closure that I wasn't given.  So I did.  I found a lot through reading this site and the small library of cluster b material I now own.  I found a lot through therapy.  But most of all, I've found a lot through forming a new life for myself.  Sure, I think a part of me wants her to just say "Look billypilgrim, I'm just like my mom.  You were good to me and you loved me like no one else has.  There's nothing else you could have done.  I'm sick and I'm going to get help for myself.  Thank you for everything you did for us." But I already know all of this.  I don't need to hear it. Feelings are stubborn and are always so slow to catch up to what you know.  

Wow! Thats really incredible! Amazing how that went down... .sorry to hear. Had you recycled in the past? Have you heard from her at all? Have you attempted to reach out? How long ago was it?

[Splitblack4good]

Here's what I know:

-She has recycled a lot of her relationships.  The guy she wound up with after me was an ex.

-She got some crappy advice from her dBPD mother - when she left, she went to her mother's house and her mom basically told her that she could always come back.  That she could always break a lease if she got a new place.  Separation papers could be voided.  Nevermind how billypilgrim may feel about all of this.  

-She blamed me for everything, via e-mail no less.  She apparently had been keeping score our entire time together and brought up each little incident in which I got knocked down on a notch of the pedestal.  This list of grievances included things that happened 5 years ago, before we were even engaged.

-Since I told her to leave me alone, she has respected my no contact wish.  She continued to contact me after she left.  Filling me in on family details.  Asking if I was going to sell the house.  Stuff like that.  After about 2 weeks, I said do not contact me please.

Here's what my gut says:

-I don't know why but I really don't think I'll hear from her again.  At least not in recycling sort of way.  She is still driving a car around in my name so I'll have to sign some paperwork once she finally gets around to switching the title over.  So some sort of contact will need to happen then.  And then one more time when the divorce is final.

-I did have a feeling a couple of days ago that she was going to reach out.  I don't know why, just sort of one of those feelings in the bottom of your stomach.  I haven't heard from her, however, and that feeling has since passed.

-Something seems very final about all of this.  Again, I can't put a reason on it but things just feel over.  Maybe that's just how things are for me.  There's nothing predictable about her but for me, it's over.  I think all of this stuff she left is now my stuff.


But every time I say the above out loud or write it out, I get reminded of what my T said. Even some of my friends have echoed the same sentiments.  Each have said on a number of occasions that she might try to come back.  And that I need to be ready.  But for some reason I just don't think I need to be ready.

I'm in the same boat as you right now I wasn't married to my ex but was engaged and to be married this July since the split just over 2 months ago ive been in LC with her mostly hatful stuff from her then on Xmas eve she seemed to of calmed down abit crying down the phone etc looking for indirect validation and support as she's fallen out with all her freinds and what I can gather things Arnt goin to well on her new relaitionship . I since found out she had cheated on me and I asked her to leave me alone as im to hurt right now . Her response was she denied it and of course turned round and said she wanted to get on with me but she doesn't want to now a d to fuc*k off (guilt , shame ) followed by a text saying " you all win ok now I am alone " how that makes sense as she has my replacement I do not know but that was the last I heard from her just over a week ago . I think she was implying she could come back by saying and hoping she could get on with me when her relaitionship falls apart with my replacement but as I found out she cheated since she would feel to much guilt and shame and she's now lost her back up !

So I feel the same as you I have a gut feeling I wont hear from her ever again but who knows . I did have a call from an unknown number last night when I answerd it they hung up so could of been her ? I told her that I'm blocking her number when I found out she cheated I didn't block it and think maybe she was testing that last night but can't be 100% sure .

[JRT]

Here's what I know:

-She has recycled a lot of her relationships.  The guy she wound up with after me was an ex.

-She got some crappy advice from her dBPD mother - when she left, she went to her mother's house and her mom basically told her that she could always come back.  That she could always break a lease if she got a new place.  Separation papers could be voided.  Nevermind how billypilgrim may feel about all of this.  

-She blamed me for everything, via e-mail no less.  She apparently had been keeping score our entire time together and brought up each little incident in which I got knocked down on a notch of the pedestal.  This list of grievances included things that happened 5 years ago, before we were even engaged.

-Since I told her to leave me alone, she has respected my no contact wish.  She continued to contact me after she left.  Filling me in on family details.  Asking if I was going to sell the house.  Stuff like that.  After about 2 weeks, I said do not contact me please.

Here's what my gut says:

-I don't know why but I really don't think I'll hear from her again.  At least not in recycling sort of way.  She is still driving a car around in my name so I'll have to sign some paperwork once she finally gets around to switching the title over.  So some sort of contact will need to happen then.  And then one more time when the divorce is final.

-I did have a feeling a couple of days ago that she was going to reach out.  I don't know why, just sort of one of those feelings in the bottom of your stomach.  I haven't heard from her, however, and that feeling has since passed.

-Something seems very final about all of this.  Again, I can't put a reason on it but things just feel over.  Maybe that's just how things are for me.  There's nothing predictable about her but for me, it's over.  I think all of this stuff she left is now my stuff.


But every time I say the above out loud or write it out, I get reminded of what my T said. Even some of my friends have echoed the same sentiments.  Each have said on a number of occasions that she might try to come back.  And that I need to be ready.  But for some reason I just don't think I need to be ready.

I'm in the same boat as you right now I wasn't married to my ex but was engaged and to be married this July since the split just over 2 months ago ive been in LC with her mostly hatful stuff from her then on Xmas eve she seemed to of calmed down abit crying down the phone etc looking for indirect validation and support as she's fallen out with all her freinds and what I can gather things Arnt goin to well on her new relaitionship . I since found out she had cheated on me and I asked her to leave me alone as im to hurt right now . Her response was she denied it and of course turned round and said she wanted to get on with me but she doesn't want to now a d to fuc*k off (guilt , shame ) followed by a text saying " you all win ok now I am alone " how that makes sense as she has my replacement I do not know but that was the last I heard from her just over a week ago . I think she was implying she could come back by saying and hoping she could get on with me when her relaitionship falls apart with my replacement but as I found out she cheated since she would feel to much guilt and shame and she's now lost her back up !

So I feel the same as you I have a gut feeling I wont hear from her ever again but who knows . I did have a call from an unknown number last night when I answerd it they hung up so could of been her ? I told her that I'm blocking her number when I found out she cheated I didn't block it and think maybe she was testing that last night but can't be 100% sure .

It sounds like there is a LOT of turmoil in her life right now. But you are dammed if you do and dammed if you don't, block her and you have abandoned her... .take her calls and she abuses you and then acts out anyway.

Mine was never like this. She is completely silent. I venture to guess that all these things go through her mind but she NEVER articulates them to anyone ever. But I am a strong enough personality to have been able to absorb any craziness ... .at least for a while.

[billypilgrim]

Wow! Thats really incredible! Amazing how that went down... .sorry to hear. Had you recycled in the past? Have you heard from her at all? Have you attempted to reach out? How long ago was it?

We never fully broke up but there were about 3 distinct instances in which she looked me straight in the eye and said, "I'm not in love with you anymore."  Those 3 instances are the 3 times I should have gotten out.  I had given her no reason to feel that way.  Instead, I took it upon myself to win her back.  I think those probably qualify as recycles. Blerg.

Initially when she first left, she texted me updates about her life and family.  We spoke over the phone a couple of times.  But something clicked in me that I didn't need to be contacting her.  This was before I started T or knew about this site.  Some sort of built in defense mechanism told me to stop talking to her.  It started when she showed up at the house when I was working from home (I'm guessing she thought I would be in the office) to drop off paperwork.  Because mailing it or scanning it would be too difficult?  It was one of the weirdest days of my life.  I remember being frozen at my desk when I heard a car pull in.   I knew it was her, no reason, I just knew.  I peeked out and there she was.  This complete stranger that was still my wife, coming by to drop off separation papers.  I'm pretty sure she tried to put the key in the door but I had already changed the locks since she ignored my request to return the keys and garage door opener.   Whatever she was doing at the door (she was there quite a while) made my dog start barking and that prompted her to try to get him to stop.  Hearing her voice talk to him in such a familiar tone was pretty surreal.  But whatever she was doing, she decided to leave the paperwork propped up against the door.  She texted and said, "I've signed the paperwork, it's at the door."  And that was the last time I saw her, through the window of my office.

I didn't like the thought of her just showing up, even though I had changed the locks.  She texted me the next day about having our dogs meet up (what the heck) and to discuss insurance change overs.  And for some reason, that was my tipping point to go NC.  I just didn't want to hear from her anymore.  I didn't want her to just be able to contact me whenever she felt like she needed something from me.  So I told her to please leave me alone and to stop contacting me.  She responded with "wow."  I said back "you're one to talk" and that's the last I've heard from her.  I will be NC for 2 months on Wednesday of this week.  I do not plan on breaking it for anything other than divorce related issues.  

[JRT]

Don't mind me saying this, but it sounds like you are in the exact place that you want to be. That being the case, you might be on the wrong thread since it sounds like you have made up your mind that you are done. I enjoy your posts but there might be more in the way of resources for you on the 'leaving' board that would be more helpful than here. Dunno, I am not there yet, .

Though I wonder if her saying that she no longer loves you was just meant to hurt you... .she certainly doesn't act like she no longer loves you... .or  maybe she just  NEEDS you

I think

[Splitblack4good]

Mine kept her ring, too. It was a sub-$1k gemstone ring. We had agreed on it. It was a gemstone of her favorite color, quite beautiful.

After she moved out, I found all sorts of things from a previous r/s (a guy who left her, but with whom she was still madly in love with idealizing up until we had S4. I also found a letter by the bf after that guy, but before me. She ended up getting an RO against him, and I know she never loved that guy. He sounded NPD.

So what does it go back to? Attachments. While keeping an engagement ring isn't indicative of BPD, it may be something to hold onto. A way to reminisce when she starts ruminating.

That being said, I found things that I'm sure mine hadn't broken out and really looked at in years. It could be just foregetfulness, too. Stuff it away, and forget about it. We could go crazy trying to figure out every little thing, and as my T said, "let's not be too quick to assign every little behavior to some PD."

I still have my exes engagement ring she took it off about 2 weeks prior to us splitting up and left it on the kitchen side she knows I have it and wasn't fussed at the time. Roughly a month after we split just before Xmas she text me asking for it back as she was goin to sell it as she was broke abd needed some money for Xmas ! I didn't reply as that really hurt on top of the hurt I was already feeling then 2 days after that got a text saying I should keep it ? Then to add more conffusion got a text after Xmas saying I stole her engagement ring ? I think deep down the truth was she had no intention of selling it was just a way of trying to get it back so she could keep it ? I found out aswell that ther is still a picture of me her a d her kids still hanging on the wall in her front room and she also hasn't deleted any pictures of us together on her FB . I think pwBPD even tho they may not have any intention of coming back do like to keep things as some kind of an attachment  it is strange . All of the stuff from our relaitionship ive kept however it's all in a box that's now under my bed out of sight but my ex seems to have kept everything on full veiw even tho she's with my replacement . And even up till this day 2 months after the B/U she hasn't blocked me on her phone . I try not to understand why they do stuff like this and I'm staying NC .

[JRT]

incredible... .after splitting me and as part off the process, blocking me from contact including social media, I know from a friends that was not yet blocked that she left pictures of she and I on fb... .i wonder why?

[borderdude]

The rs was partially in fantasy , so by keeping the ring she could progress with her engagement more easily.

My encounter of this , was that she acted like a teen who got engaged for the first time, much grining and childish happiness, look I am normal.

[JRT]

The rs was partially in fantasy , so by keeping the ring she could progress with her engagement more easily.

My encounter of this , was that she acted like a teen who got engaged for the first time, much grining and childish happiness, look I am normal.

I am not sure I understand BD as we broke up.

[billypilgrim]

Don't mind me saying this, but it sounds like you are in the exact place that you want to be. That being the case, you might be on the wrong thread since it sounds like you have made up your mind that you are done. I enjoy your posts but there might be more in the way of resources for you on the 'leaving' board that would be more helpful than here. Dunno, I am not there yet, .

Though I wonder if her saying that she no longer loves you was just meant to hurt you... .she certainly doesn't act like she no longer loves you... .or  maybe she just  NEEDS you

I think

I don't mind you saying it at all.  I spend most of my time on these boards jumping between the Personal Inventory and Leaving boards.  My mind is made up.  But there was something about this thread that triggered me to jump back over here for the night.  Maybe it's because I haven't fully dealt why she left so much stuff.  And why she ignored my requests to get the keys back.  It's just so completely opposite from how I would have handled getting my stuff and returning things that were asked of me - so I think that's why I found this thread so relevant.  I also spent part of last night cleaning out some of her stuff so I guess it was just the right timing for this thread.  

I think the second half of your last statement is dead on.  I don't think she still loves me.  You can't treat people this way and still love them.  That's not love, it's something else.  Infatuation?  Attachment?  Maybe a little of both.  Now that doesn't mean she won't wake up 4 weeks from now and "love" me again but I don't really concern myself with that.  It's all about need.  It's all about filling that gaping void in her life.  Whether that's through me, the replacement, friends, job, etc.  It's all about her needs.  

[JRT]

I had meant that he saying that she didn't love you was the equivalent to the closest hunk of wood or metal that happened ot be nearby to pick up and smack you in the head with. No meaning other than to inflict pain, in other words; that she still loves you.

[billypilgrim]

Oh I hear you now.  You are right, she figured out exactly what made me tick.  And it hurt.  Each time she said that felt like a ton of bricks (or hunk of metal, as you said) falling on my chest.  It's like she would say that just to see my reaction.  The way she looked at me after saying that was almost like a "What are you going to do about it?" kind of gaze.  Her saying that triggered guilt inside of me and guilt is what made me tick in the r/s.  That I somehow wasn't doing enough for her to love me (which is crazy, looking back).  That I needed to change somehow to make things work. And I did, far too often.  She was testing my commitment to her and looking to hurt me or get something out of me.  Nothing more.  So yes, I suppose she could have still loved me when she said that.  Or whatever you want to call whatever it is she calls love.   

[JRT]

Sure... .I am pretty sure that was what it was all about at least from my vantage point. Especially the way that she looked at you to gauge your reaction.

[jo19854]

My wife left and took the keys of the house, kept her wedding ring and took a picture of us with her. Just her, me and her dog that she left behind

[enlighten me]

Its not about value its about a conection to more positive emotions. These objects are from a happy time so therefore remind them of being happy.

My exgf has a picture I bought her for our first valentines. It hangs above her bed. I know this as i can see it when i pick up my son. You would think that such a big reminder in such a personal place would be the last thing they would want. I know for me it would be triggering.

[JRT]

Wow... .just amazes me... .mine left me and will not talk to me... .she blocked me from communicating with her! I treid to call from an unblocked hotel phone and she called the cops on me. This just adds another layer of wierdness to it all.