Psychodynamic group work V 1:1

[maria1]

Hi folks

I've been offered a place in a weekly women's therapy group. It's psycho-dynamic and two years if I want it. It's a fantastic opportunity but I could wait longer for 1:1 psycho-dynamic therapy from the same service.

I don't mind waiting if the 1:1 would suit me better. I've met with the group leader once to discuss and meeting again next week.



Does anybody have experience of 1:1 and/or group psycho-dynamic work and therefore a view on the pros/cons of either?

At the moment my concerns are:

1.It's women only which may mean many of the group members may have been overtly abused as children which I wasn't. My concern is that I would feel my problems are less than theirs and I have already begun exploring this with the Group Leader;

2. Would I be able to do the work as well in a group?


Thanks

[AnotherPhoenix]

Hello Maria  ,

I'm sorry that nobody else has replied to your post! I don't know anything about psycho-dynamic therapy. What is it?

Have you decided to join the group?

AnotherPheonix 

[Phoenix.Rising]

Maria,  If that is the same as psycho drama therapy, then I would recommend it if you have a good therapist.  Psycho drama is essentially role playing, and very effective.  It brings out old emotional pain that has been holding us back.  Good luck.  I'm happy for you.

[maria1]

Hi the Phoenixes! Thanks for replying. I think no-one replying suggested I'm lucky to get the offer of a place as groups like this may be few and far between. I live in a large UK city which is pretty disadvantaged but also quite renown in health care. The group is also subsidised and I wouldn't afford it otherwise.

I copied the descriptions below from the net. Psychodynamic therapy seems to be another term for psychoanalysis. I think it's probably what many people on here refer to as 'therapy' but for me it's important to be clear what approach a 'therapist' is using and what his/her goal is with therapy, as there are many different types. As a qualified mental health nurse I could set myself up as a private 'therapist' and listen to people for an hour using counselling skills I have. I would alleviate some distress by validating the person and making them feel listened to, or solving a short term problem. I have had that sort of 'therapy' myself in the past and it has been helpful in the short term. BUT now I want something that goes deeper inside my personality and works on the FOO stuff with a goal of real insight, change and growth.

So... psychoanalytic/ psychodynamic therapy is defined as:

Psychoanalytic or psychodynamic psychotherapy draws on theories and practices of analytical psychology and psychoanalysis. It is a therapeutic process which helps patients understand and resolve their problems by increasing awareness of their inner world and its influence over relationships both past and present. It differs from most other therapies in aiming for deep seated change in personality and emotional development.

Psychoanalytic and psychodynamic psychotherapy aim to help people with serious psychological disorders to understand and change complex, deep-seated and often unconsciously based emotional and relationship problems thereby reducing symptoms and alleviating distress. However, their role is not limited only to those with mental health problems. Many people who experience a loss of meaning in their lives or who are seeking a greater sense of fulfilment may be helped by psychoanalytic or psychodynamic psychotherapy.

The relationship with the therapist is a crucial element in the therapy. The therapist offers a confidential and private setting which facilitates a process where unconscious patterns of the patient's inner world become reflected in the patient's relationship with the therapist (transference). This process helps patients gradually to identify these patterns and, in becoming conscious of them, to develop the capacity to understand and change them. ( British Psychoanalytic Council)

A psychodynamic group is a long term group made up of people with similar types of diagnoses, such as depression, dependent personality disorder, general anxiety disorder and etc. The group is lead by one or even two mental health professionals. The purpose for joining this type of group is to learn how to cope with relationships while learning about all the dysfunctional ways in which one has functioned until the present time. The purpose of learning about one's own dysfunctional patterns is to become self aware and begin behaving in ways that are healthier and satisfying so that the person can enjoy greater success in the world.

The premise this is based on is that we repeat or reenact, in the outside world, all the unhealthy patterns of behavior we learned in the group of origin: our family.

This type of group is usually made up of no more than eight to ten people with seven being the most ideal. People in the group learn how they behave in the outside world because they repeat their dysfunctional patterns in the group. In a way, the group is a microcosm of the world and an experimental family in which members take on their old and unhealthy roles until they are shed and they adopt new patterns of behavior in which they enjoy greater acceptance and warmth in the group.

I suppose these boards operate on the same principle of psychoanalytic theory, that we get into dysfunctional relationships because of dysfunctional stuff in our FOO. I'm very aware that an inexperienced or bad therapist can just reinforce it or make it worse. The group approach is supposed to take out the transference/ dependence on the therapist that can occur.

Now, having spent some time thinking about it I still have the same concerns but I don't know whether I'm going to know the answer and may just have to go for it.

I will also have to get past the guilt of having a place... it's a women only group and most of the women will be worse off than me. I've already started on this with the therapist though who I'm meeting with for a few 1:1s to explore the group.

Thanks again- it's scary but very positive  

[AnotherPhoenix]

  Maria,

Thank you for the explanation.

What are you looking to get out of the group therapy? Will you also be seeing a T 1-on-1?

I will also have to get past the guilt of having a place... it's a women only group and most of the women will be worse off than me. I've already started on this with the therapist though who I'm meeting with for a few 1:1s to explore the group.

What is the guilt about?

AnotherPheonix   

[maria1]

I want to work on how I interact with people- how I function in relationships. Ultimately I want to function better as a parent; if I'm doing better in the rest of my life I know I'll do that. I'd like a healthy relationship with a significant other. I'd like to feel less conflicted about the relationship with my father who is disabled and can't speak and who I resent having in my life but who has nobody else in his life.

I won't see a T separately no. It's not the idea. The idea is that the group functions as the therapy- you wouldn't do both together. Well, you might do some CBT stuff or short term goal focused stuff but not deep stuff. I think it would conflict?

The guilt is about me feeling my problems aren't as bad as other peoples. It's a subsidised service set up for marginalised women, probably overtly abused. I come from a middle class background and wasn't abused, just ignored a bit. I worry I'm taking a place from someone else.

I also feel I function OK really, much better than many others.

I met with the group leader today. I told her my feelings. But as I told her I was crying; I said I knew things were wrong because I can't express my feelings without tears any more. She said she thought I would work well in the group and there is no reason not to do it she can see.

I've decided to do it. I'm pleased- I feel privileged to have the opportunity. If it doesn't work (I want to give it a really good go though) I can revert back to the waiting list for 1:1 therapy

[AnotherPhoenix]

  Maria1,

I've decided to do it. I'm pleased- I feel privileged to have the opportunity. If it doesn't work (I want to give it a really good go though) I can revert back to the waiting list for 1:1 therapy

Great for you! I'm very happy for you.

AnotherPheonix   

[maria1]

Thank you Another Phoenix! You are very kind x

[Wendell]

Maria1, I think this sounds awesome, I'm happy for you!    We actually sound like we're at similar places in our journeys, some of the things you mention are issues I'm also working on and thinking deeply about.  I think that you shouldn't be feeling guilt over taking a place in the group, what we deal with in our lives is our own pain, it's not less or more than another person's pain, it's just different.  You have every right to be there and find the support you need in order to heal! I will look forward to hearing about how it goes and if you find it helpful.  Please keep us posted!  

Wishing you lots of luck!

Wendell  

[maria1]

Hi Faith2heal and thank you for the support- that's very kind of you   I know you are right but it helps to hear these things.

Have you managed to find some therapy for yourself?

[Wendell]

Hi again Maria,  Yes, I'm back in therapy after not being in it for awhile.  I recently moved back to the city I grew up in, so I had to leave behind my wonderful T.  I'm a teacher and they offer if free where I work so I've started back.  Thanks for asking! 

[Phoenix.Rising]

The guilt is about me feeling my problems aren't as bad as other peoples. It's a subsidised service set up for marginalised women, probably overtly abused. I come from a middle class background and wasn't abused, just ignored a bit. I worry I'm taking a place from someone else.

Maria, You are just as deserving of the help as anyone.  I come from a middle class family as well, but I don't think that matters.  It sounds like a great opportunity. 

I just received a name of a therapist who works with FOO issues and borderline relationships.  My last therapist wasn't too keen on FOO work.  He was very much about working on today, which is fine, but I feel I need to look a bit deeper.  I've done some FOO work before, but the recent relationship I had with my uBPDex totally blew my world apart.  I'm still not quite right from it.

On a side note, there are many positives in my life right now.  I just purchased a nice home, and I really love it.  I got a wonderful deal, and it is in a great neighborhood.  Work is going very well for me right now as well.  I just feel a bit lost on the relationship front.  I'm trying to get back to a good relationship with ME.  Keep up the good work.  Group therapy can be very powerful.   

[maria1]

Hi Phoenix Rising and thank you

I think what's helping me stay focused on the fact that I 'deserve' a place is that I want to do the work. I think I am convinced that is what makes me deserve the place. They wouldn't offer it to me if they didn't think I need it and it's going to be hard work. I'm ready!

I spoke a little last week with the group leader about how the therapy works. I am concerned about FOO work because I don't have many memories of my childhood. I'm pretty sure that's not because I'm repressing them; it's because I don't have a very good memory and I didn't have a family who looked back and remembered together so the memories weren't reinforced. She said the work is based on the here and now and the group takes the place of the therapist with the therapist guiding. The idea being that we get a better idea of how we interact with others and how we might change from working in a group, and we can work on particular issues, for example parenting. I want to find out more about where the growth and learning is and how that works.

I think it's great that you know what you need for your own growth and healing. Congratulations on your new home! Funnily enough reading you write about work and your home but wanting to get a better relationship with you made me think I've progressed quite a bit in getting to know me but it's hard. I've shed some friends and some friends are looking at me as if they don't quite know who I am any more, and vice versa. I'm spending a lot of time alone and enjoying it.

All the best with finding a T that will work on the FOO stuff and who works for you too- be great to hear how that goes 

[Phoenix.Rising]

You are definitely growing, Maria.  Much of my 'recovery' started years ago when I quit drinking.  I was an alcoholic.  With that said, intimate relationships have been my toughest area for recovery.  I was married, but divorced years ago (in 2001), so I've been 'single' for a good while. 

The last three serious relationships I've been in have lasted about 2 years each, the most recent one being my uexBPDgf.  I believe I've dated other women with BPD or at least with very strong traits, and I realize now my mother has strong BPD traits.  My father is a recovering alcoholic, and my parents divorced when I quite young. 

I'm 'aware' of where a lot of struggles in intimate relationships come from, but it's another story using that awareness to apply healthy practices to new relationships.  I really believe it all starts with ME first.  I need to remember too that I don't have to do this perfectly, nor do you. 

The group dynamic for you sounds great because that is real-time application of healthy interaction.  I'm happy for you.

I believe much of what we do in relationships plays out almost in a subconscious way due to our FOO, but those patterns can be unlearned.  It is hard work.  Most people don't venture that far into recovery, but when the pain becomes strong enough, people will usually do something to change, or either experience more misery.  And I am very hard headed!  Ha! 

[maria1]

Hi Phoenix

Yes- I do feel my own growth- thank you for seeing that and saying so. You are very kind and lovely.   These boards are a good place to play out little interactions and notice how we function in mini 'relationships/interactions'. A big thing for me from my FOO that was replayed in my borderline relationship was attention. My ex noticed me in a way I was never noticed in my family, nor any of my other relationships- the idealisation never really went away in our relationship, or even if it did he still really noticed me. Not just physically but emotionally and psychologically- all round.

It's interesting to stand back from myself these last months both in and out of a relationship and see how I cope with and without attention and where I look for it. I get some of it here and some of it in the real world. But I'm learning to cope without it. Not completely but I can feel the need is a false need, it doesn't satisfy me.

It's the same as an addiction. I watched a programme about addicts recently. It was made by Russel Brand and he was saying that all addicts he had ever met have a hole inside them that they keep trying to fill up with the drugs/ alcohol. It made me think of us with our people with BPD. How I really feel a physical reaction to him, how I feel I really want to breathe him in, like a drug. But I'm breaking the habit.

I have had that physical reaction to a few men in my life. They have been the ones who have been the worst for me but the most compelling.

Yes these patterns can be unlearned and the patterns can be broken. We need help to do it. You too are making those steps further forward, hard as they are. Good for you, and good for me. Good on us! 

[Phoenix.Rising]

Like you, the attention I received during the idealization phase gave me a high like none I had known before.  I felt like I was on top of the world, like I could do anything.  I read your post to Myself earlier and I agree with what you are saying about addiction. 

I became addicted to the high from the over-the-top attention she would give me.  The hook really started when she started taking it away, then giving it again, and on and on.  I was constantly on edge waiting for a hit, so to speak.  I did, and do, have genuine care for her but it is mixed in with addiction.  That becomes an impossible situation unless I'm able to avert the addictive part somehow.  I know that I am not in any condition to even try.

In my FOO, my emotional needs did not seem very important.  I don't think my parents were able to give much in that area, and I often felt like my voice was unimportant.  I feel much stronger now, but I still struggle with aspects of that.  I used alcohol and other substances for years to mask emotional pain.

I appreciate your kind words to me.  You are an awesome person, Maria.  I'm glad we are able to hash some of this out in these forums.

One last note... the last time I saw my ex I was close to her house and just called.  She was home, and I asked if I could stop by for a minute.  She agreed.  We had not seen each other in quite a while.  I was literally shaking inside, like an addict who has been without his drug for a while.  I had a literal physical reaction to her presence.  It was powerful and frightening.