Lack of empathy is amazing sometimes

[Depression = 72% of members]

Today I found out that a guy I had been training off and on for the last year was murdered last night. I was just working with him on Saturday so it was a very big shock to me to hear it.

I called home to talk to my wife about it, she didn't know the guy but I was hoping for a smidge of empathy with what I was feeling after I found out. I could have just as easily gone to a coke machine and started talking the only difference is I would have gotten something to drink from that.

Even something like this doesn't register to her. It was the same in March when my father passed away only then I had my family to talk to. It kind of sucks when you have no one to talk to about these things that are very big and emotional.

Should have learned in March and saved the call today.

[Hmcbart]

Today I found out that a guy I had been training off and on for the last year was murdered last night. I was just working with him on Saturday so it was a very big shock to me to hear it.

I called home to talk to my wife about it, she didn't know the guy but I was hoping for a smidge of empathy with what I was feeling after I found out. I could have just as easily gone to a coke machine and started talking the only difference is I would have gotten something to drink from that.

Even something like this doesn't register to her. It was the same in March when my father passed away only then I had my family to talk to. It kind of sucks when you have no one to talk to about these things that are very big and emotional.

Should have learned in March and saved the call today.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[Haye]

Hmcbart – it is not perhaps lack of empathy, though that is possible too. I've realized that the concept of death is really really hard on pwBPD's. It is too much for a person with emotional disabilities to handle. The pwBPD in my life 'archives' deaths immeaditely and avoids the topic and/or dysregulates badly on the news.

Even when doesn't know the person (or animal) who died he is usually unable to even utter "my condolences", though he tries as he is fully aware that it is something I need to.

Me thinks there are severeal reason. For one, it reminds him of his own losses which he has not been able to handle at all or get over; too strong. Two, me having a strong negative emotion, is likely to pull him down, too. Three, he struggles with showing positive encouraging emotions like empathy. Sometimes he doesn't feel any, sometimes he says he probably feels as a normal being would, but has no way of dressing those feelings into words. Also, common to pwBPD he has huge trouble recognizing feelings and naming them so it is just a huge dark chaos in his mind. And four, death is the ultimate abandoment. My guess is that to an average pwBPD "hears" somebody murdered in a similar manner than a say seven year old kid. It strucks them very hard and they get a harsh reminder that the important persons in their lives are not going to live forever, but might die and abandon them permanently any moment.

[Hmcbart]

That makes a lot of sense. She also acts this way if I'm sick. Even something minor lick a head cold or flu. If I'm bed ridden for a day or two it's amazing the lack of compassion I receive. I used to think she just didn't have a good bedside manor accept with the kids.

Now I just feel like I can do things for her when I'm sick so it makes her mad. I can be painted white for several days and then get sick and it's all over, I'm painted black the minute my fever goes over 99. Luckily I don't get sick that often because I have a tendency to try to work through it to keep her happy even though I know it will make things worse for me. Yes I'm a caretaker.

[Heldfast]

Mine was still emotionally raw over the tragic death of a friend who was dating a con man and drug dealer (they were shooting at him, they hit her) over twelve years before. But cold to other less direct tragedies. So who knows? Maybe that death was part of her core trauma. She's 6 months gone now, moved away, I was immediately (even before she left) replaced and she refuses any contact. Will never know I guess.

[goateeki]

Today I found out that a guy I had been training off and on for the last year was murdered last night. I was just working with him on Saturday so it was a very big shock to me to hear it.

I called home to talk to my wife about it, she didn't know the guy but I was hoping for a smidge of empathy with what I was feeling after I found out. I could have just as easily gone to a coke machine and started talking the only difference is I would have gotten something to drink from that.

Even something like this doesn't register to her. It was the same in March when my father passed away only then I had my family to talk to. It kind of sucks when you have no one to talk to about these things that are very big and emotional.

Should have learned in March and saved the call today.

On the day my father died I left work early and drove home (had to figure out how to break it to the kids).  I'd called my dBPD ex wife from the office to let her know what happened. The conversation was brief and clinical.  I drove home, arrived, had some trouble finding the keys so I rang the bell. 

She opened the door and didn't say a word.  She didn't even look at me.  She opened the door and walked away. 

I think that it was at the moment when I knew I had to get away from this person.  It was then that I started to believe (or to realize) that there was something very wrong with her.

[EaglesJuju]

I just had two significant deaths happen over the last month. First was the death of my dog, who was originally my bf's. Then my grandmother just passed away the other day. My grandmother and I were very close. My bf liked her very much too.  Needless to say, it has been a pretty tough month for me.

When he was here helping me with the dog, he rarely showed much emotion. He tends to over control his emotions. It gives an impression that he is indifferent. When the emotions/feelings are way to overwhelming for him to over control, he breaks and starts getting very emotional. Granted he was very supportive in his own way, considering I was a hot mess.

I was speaking to him about my grandmother the other night. I could tell that it was getting him upset and uncomfortable. I started getting frustrated and he could tell. I stopped feeling that way after he said, "As you know that I am not very good at coping with upsetting things. It makes me think of the sadness of the loss of other people. Thinking about it makes me really depressed and I am struggling with depression right now.  I'm trying my best to be supportive. It makes me sad to think of the loss of your grandmother, since I knew her too."

I started to get it from there. The emotions are too much for him to handle and he tends to avoid/suppress emotions. He wants to be there support me, but cannot on a level that I would expect.  I do know internally he can empathize, but cannot show it externally. I kept comparing his empathy to a level of empathy of a person who is not disordered.

Looking at it from a different perspective helps.

[Cat Familiar]

My husband immediately relates any death to his own losses. Same with illness. It's almost like a competition to him as to who is the most depressed or sick.

[Hmcbart]

When my father died in March I remember having a very upset conversation with me because of how she was acting. She was treating me like I did something wrong and complained how I wasn't speaking to her about my feelings. She had said some very upsetting things but I can't remember them all. I do very much remember my words after something she said. I think that was the first time she ever realized how badly she had hurt me. I was just trying to hold it together for my mother, sister and brother. But it felt like  because I wasn't focus on her then she went after me. If I would have had any energy and cognitive abilities that day I would have asked her to leave and never come back.

[Notwendy]

Empathy requires connecting with someone else's emotions in a healthy way. However, to do this takes boundaries. Grief and loss from a death is overwhelming. How to we connect with someone who has these strong feelings without becoming overwhelmed ourselves? Our boundaries, our sense of self - where we end and where someone begins - allows us to be empathetic to grief without feeling as if we are grieving.

The essence of BPD is emotional dysregulation. When they feel bad, they can't deal with feeling those feelings so they project them on to someone else. How can someone who does this connect with the feelings of someone else if they can't connect with their own?

Also, the basis of empathy is that, even if we are not experiencing grief, we can identify with those feelings because we have had those feelings too, if not for a person, for a pet, or something. Usually children first experience loss when a pet dies, or a grandparent. Ideally, they have an empatheric caregiver who can connect with them, hug them, console them, while letting them feel their feelings. They also have to have good boundaries so that they are not overwhelmed with the feelings of the child.

An invalidating caregiver may be uncomfortable with the child's feelings and try to stop them. " be quiet" "don't cry".

My mom does not show empathy. She's about as cold a person I have known. Her FOO isn't empathetic either. However, they are not bad people, like a sociopath would be. They will do things like visit sick friends, help out someone, but they don't connect with feelings well. My mother will do the same, or she can act coldheartedly, but I am not sure it is always by intention.

My H's family is cold and unemotional, but they do care for each other. His mother would give you the shirt off your back but not hug you if you were crying. His dad, an emotionally stunted ( from his own issues)and invalidating man would also do anything to help a friend.

My H is empathetic but has a hard time in the face of strong emotions. Since nobody handled them well in his family, his approach is to stop them. " don't be upset" "don't cry". "don't worry" and if that doesn't work, he gets angry. It isn't easy for me to turn to him for support when I am upset because his reaction is to get agitated and angry, not what I need. But he is a good intentioned person.

I don't know if it is possible to expect empathy from someone who has trouble with emotions. However, I think we have to look at this in context of the whole pictures before deciding that they just don't care. They might, but it may not be something they can process or deal with.

[Hmcbart]

I agree whole heartedly Wendy. I don't really believe she doesn't care. I just don't think she has the capacity to deal with it when it doesn't hit home for her. When my father died she was emotionally upset. He was in her life for 20 years. She just couldn't deal with me being in an emotional place also.

My personality profile at work states that because of my ability to control my emotions others may think that I don't care about their needs or problems. I know this about myself and have to go out of my way to let people I understand their concerns even if I do show it. I guess I've taught my self so well over the years that my emotions are bad and cause problems I keep them hidden from everyone.

I will be working this Saturday at the business where the guy I have been working with and training for a year was just murdered (Not at the store). I have to use his office and work with everyone at the business all day. They will be emotional train wrecks because this happened just Tuesday night.

I guess this post is more to help me get past it than anything else. I cannot count on my wife for supper with this. She didn't know the guy and has no attachment. I guess I wrongly hoped she would be able to be there for me emotionally even when I know it's not really possible.

I will do like I always do and act professional and show empathy towards all of the people I'm working with but my emotions will be in check. I don't openly show my emotions with things like this any longer. I'm not sure if I can.

[Haye]

Hmcbart, I forgot to write I am sorry for how you have been treated. It feels quite horrible, even if you understand why and don't believe the not-so-functioning spouse. I think pretty much everyone (with any sorts of emotions) expects our partners to support us in a moment of loss, grief, sickness etc. Just a kind word, a hug - doesn't have to be that much.

Quite recently we lost very suddenly a very beloved pet. Nothing compared to murder of course, but something that was devastating to my kids, me and also the pwBPD in our life. I knew that there would be no support coming from his side, but what happened felt a bit too much. He went really out of control. Dysregulated or dissociating, hard to say, but he made a scene at a local store, was acting all weird and attacking me verbally. Yeah I knew of course that it is the loss being too big for him to handle, but it really felt... .unjustified. Unnecessary.

[Stalwart]

It's my observation that in some cases I'm not certain my wife can relate to some situations in the same way that we would. One thing I do know for certain is that my wife doesn't have a full grasp on exactly what some emotions are. Oh, she can definitely recite what they are technically and for the most part she can pick some of them out of other people quite well, but knowing and feeling are two separate issues when trying to responds to a situation.

Just to explain a little more clearly she's extremely high functioning, literate and capable. I know that she can not distinguish the nuances between someone being embarrassed and someone being humiliated. She doesn't understand or feel the nuances between the two situations when confronted or recognize in someone else that is the reaction to what they're feeling. If she is humiliated or embarrassed it relates immediately in her mind to 'being disrespected' and the anger and retaliation button is automatically engaged. This is true for many emotional states, she lacks the feelings and developed responses that other would have and would result in coping with the situation due to proper emotional rationalization of the situation.

When it comes to death, that's a huge one she buries as a real and constant fear. But it is not her own death that drives that same fear - it's the death of those around her. She has our three dogs dead, me dead and fear of what that would be to her constantly in her mind. She lives each day in that real and tangible fear of loss and being alone. That's a powerful fear to have hanging over and affecting your thoughts on a constant and heightened level of emotional reality each moment you function in the other necessities of your day. It horrifies her with it's inevitability.

Confront her with a death and she turns stone cold and unable to even speak or allow her self to recognize it or feel it because it lingers as her most utmost fear that people will die around her. She immediately associates someone else's death to her own fear of it and it immobilizes her.

For that reason I've never come to the conclusion that it is a lack of empathy. I consider it a desperate reality of the empathy she feels and how overwhelming it is to her well being in coping in that environment when it confronts her.

I really do believe that many times when we see reactions that we misinterpret them. She has no empathy when the truth is she is a super feeler of the exact same situation and it affects her with extreme emotional responses that are hard to understand. It really is difficult to traverse the winding and confusing maze of reason, emotion and rationality that exists between a non and a person who is affected by BPD. Far too often I also think we interpret with our past angers and our own egos when situations arise and it helps blind us from seeing the reality of what we're looking at from their perspective in their world.

I'm sorry for the loss of your acquaintance HmcBart. It must have come as shocking to you and  my heart goes out to that person's family as well.

[ColdEthyl]

Confront her with a death and she turns stone cold and unable to even speak or allow her self to recognize it or feel it because it lingers as her most utmost fear that people will die around her. She immediately associates someone else's death to her own fear of it and it immobilizes her.

My husband can read and article in the news, or have a neighbor we don't talk to have a problem and he breaks down like it happened to him. The other day when I was trying to sext him, an ambulance picked up a neighbor we didn't know, and in mid texts he started talking about how terrible it was that it looked like they were working on her. When I got home from work, it was more talking about it and crying.

On the other hand, if I'm upset about a loss or something... .it's stone face. I think it's because when I'm upset, he doesn't know what to do, and he hates not being able to make it stop, so he sort of shuts down.

It's possible your wife just didn't know what to do or how to feel :/

I'm very sorry for your loss, hun  

[Hmcbart]

Haye- it doesn't matter with its a close friend, family member or pet. Those feelings of lose and sadness are the same. That's how we learn them and how to deal with them.

Stalwart- I guess it's more difficult to see this when you have been painted black since April 6th. The silent treatment and all the other things that come with this time can wear on you. Constant egg shells.

This morning she called me to ask if my not calling or texting her was because someone else told me to do it or because I choose to do it. That wasn't the call I was expecting this morning. I thought she was calling because I had sent her some flowers to surprise her and say I love you. I thought the call was going to be a happy call. I guess the flower delivery had some bad timing. Anyway, it's been a rough couple of days and I'm emotionally and physically spent.

[Circle]

Sorry to hear of the loss of this person in your life. I wish you well.

[Fian]

This isn't death related, but I see my wife lacking empathy for a different reason.  Her mom was diagnosed with a condition that prevents her from eating meat, which she loves.  She will often ask my wife for permission to eat meat.  They will then fight and be upset with each other.  I understand her mother's situation.  If I was told that I could no longer eat the food that I loved, it would be hard for me too, and I would be looking for exceptions where I could eat the food that I loved, even if it was less frequently.  Of course, the "parent" in us has to make good choices despite how frustrating the situation is.  I think that is a normal empathetic response - we sympathize with the situation, but we still encourage the person to eat the right things.  For my wife, all she can see is how frustrating it is for her to have her mom ask for permission to eat meat.  Even when I explain how her mom is feeling, she still responds with how her mom makes her feel.  I think the constant victim status of a BPD prevents them from feeling empathy for others.  They are so focused on how they are feeling, they don't see how others are feeling.

It should be noted that my wife is very empathetic towards our cats.  She doesn't feel like a victim to the cats, so she can focus on what they are feeling instead.

[Circle]

I think the constant victim status of a BPD prevents them from feeling empathy for others.  They are so focused on how they are feeling, they don't see how others are feeling.

Yes, I've thought that. And, it goes with co-dependency ideas; that the more you cater to their needs, the more they expect that. Seems like maybe BPD is based on a lot of conditioning. Where they were conditioned to be the victim. And, maybe, as everyone says, the lack of emotional maturity makes empathy above and beyond their ability.

[Notwendy]

I think you have a good point with the constant victim status. It has astounded me when I see how they can feel like victims in situations where they are clearly not victims, but they truly believe it.

Sometimes my H would rage at me, just go off like that out of the blue. I thought he was an ogre. If you ask him-he thinks I am attacking him.

How in heavens name can that be true? Anyone who knows me says I am not an attacking person. Sometimes, asking a simple question can be an "attack" to him. Sometimes asking him to do something is an "attack". I really have no clue as to how many times he thinks I I have inadvertently "attacked" him when really there was nothing happening like that at the time.

To me, it looked like my father bent over backwards to try to make my mother happy, but to listen to her, she feels as if she is his victim.

The Victim triangle is a good explanation of these dynamics. There are three roles: victim, persecutor, rescuer. It describes how one gets on the triangle as a rescuer, and ends up being perceived as the persecutor to the victim. The pw BPD usually alternated between victim and persecutor- to the rescuer- but I think they see themselves as victims.

[an0ught]

Hi Hmcbart,

I guess it's more difficult to see this when you have been painted black since April 6th. The silent treatment and all the other things that come with this time can wear on you. Constant egg shells.

This morning she called me to ask if my not calling or texting her was because someone else told me to do it or because I choose to do it. That wasn't the call I was expecting this morning. I thought she was calling because I had sent her some flowers to surprise her and say I love you. I thought the call was going to be a happy call. I guess the flower delivery had some bad timing. Anyway, it's been a rough couple of days and I'm emotionally and physically spent.

you are painted black. She is upset with you. And you send her flowers with simple message "I love you". How is that not invalidating? She is irritated by it and reaches out to you. Since when she is irritated she is not so rationale you get the biggest topic in her mind where she struggles with mightily: Lack of messages. If (and only if) pushed (hard) on that topic explain it (once) as a rule for yourself: "When I'm upset messages from me are not so well thought out and will only upset you further. After we have cooled off things work better. It saves pain on both sides.".

It is better to put a lot of validation before the "I love you". In SET format it could look like:

  S: Hey, I'm thinking of you

  E: we are struggling right now. Are upset about stuff that may or may not be so important but still is upsetting us greatly.

  T: getting over this takes time. Still want to let you know I love you.

[Stalwart]

Hey Hmcbart:

My friend I caught the frustration in your post and response to me earlier in this thread. I just want you to know for certain that I am absolutely sympathetic to the position you're in here. I've lived it, been so confused and dazed by it and beaten down by the exact same set of circumstances so many times. Most of us have lived so long in the bewilderment of it and suffered emotionally because of it.

There is such an ironic sadness to the state of lack of a needed response when we feel pain in a loss situation by our spouses. It's both so startling and maddening when so often we can come to recognize that their unusual responses are so often not about us and to realize at the same time in a situation like you're in that same equation (their reactions not being about us.) is so desperately what we need in the moment. I don't know if any words, logic, rationalization or reasoning anyone can offer here can truly take the deep sadness away from the reality of just how desperately that hurts, nor how easily we can get over that situation we've all been in at one time or another in our relationships with our spouses.

Quite often I've said here that I took a day turned the page on the past and started a blank page to  rewrite our lives together. For the most part I've been really successful at mentally doing just that. But I'll share a secret with you. It is the exact same situation that you've encountered and I've encountered with a lack of sympathy in those times of loss that I truly can't forget. It's because those few moments of real loss of something in our lives consume us so emotionally and entirely and we feel so much need of another's understanding that it hurts so deeply when we realize it isn't there for us.

I guess going forward in my case knowing the desperation of how I felt in those times, in those instances really helped me to better understand the almost constant and same state my wife lives in virtually everyday, over some active or remembered incident from her past she felt loss (that generally comes through in anger) consume her ability to be in our world or feel as though I understood or was there for her. It's the nature of the beast and it is a real beast to battle in our own hearts.

But as you so aptly said, being painted black at the time makes it all that much darker. I really feel for the situation you find yourself in mourning alone the loss of a friend you've invested yourself in, knowing it can't be met the way you need it to be with your wife.

I think the constant victim status of a BPD prevents them from feeling empathy for others.  They are so focused on how they are feeling, they don't see how others are feeling.

It should be noted that my wife is very empathetic towards our cats.  She doesn't feel like a victim to the cats, so she can focus on what they are feeling instead.

Well Fian I think you really hit the nail on the head with your first statement. That's entirely how I rationalize the situation. I think coming to that understanding was a huge aha moment for me. It's when I could really understand that a situation she is facing in interactions with others that seems so small is compounded in her perception because she builds exponentially on that situation throwing her feelings and anger from every like situation she has faced with others in the past on top of it and mixing it into the brew with the situation at hand. That is such a toxic brew, the things we don't see behind the situation that heightens the emotional state of my wife that always blinded me to just how emotionally desperate she felt at those times. I know in those times, because of my inability to relate to why she could find something so desperate also led her to believe that I had no empathy for her situation. I think the worse part is her inability to truly relate situations to other emotions like we do such as remorse or pity compound the situation because her natural state of response turns so quickly to anger and stays there for so long she can't break free from it.

Knowing this now, about how little sometimes I really do know that motivates her entire perception of a situation has really helped me to learn how to address those times with her. That understanding has led me to be able to stay calm while I ask her different questions and allow her to more easily talk a situation through. It's really a game changer when you can actually understand this and learn how to respond to it in a way that's helpful. We so often think that we can't or shouldn't help them when they're facing their own problems - but tackling that in a way that doesn't bring wrath on to me and also helps her regulate more quickly - that's a real game changer.

It also lets her know in her own mind that I do understand, I do listen and I am there for her.

Your second statement and realization has been huge in my life and relationship Fian.

When I first met my wife she had never had dogs, nor did she really like them. She had a calico cat but real mean, scardy cat. Funny how sometimes we emulate our own pets. - only kidding.

I've always had dogs. It took her a while to warm up to my dog but when she did Wow did she ever. Being a bit compulsive we now have THREE DAMN DOGS. That's a story better left unsaid.  Thank goodness for city by-laws knowing we can't have any more in one residence.

It's when I see her with the dogs that I really truly see the potential she has to love something else. It really does my heart good to see that in her, even if she doesn't relate the same way to people. It's there and I can see it's there to bring out.

The reason she's learned to love dogs so much and they're so close to her heart and being - they don't judge and she feels safe with them, an experience she's never had in her life - feeling safe with something. They're unconditional in their love and she responds in the same way.

She's migrated to becoming hugely involved in dog rescue and even though it consumes a lot of her time and effort, it's great to see how capable she is in her part in that world. That's a huge subject in how that's helped remold her and how I've also been able to use situations she deals with to help her see abstracts of dealing better with other people.

[Hmcbart]

Stalwart- it's all good. Like I've said, I can rebound fairly quickly and am a pro at hiding my feelings and emotions. That's not all from living with someone with BPD. I grew up in a house were everyone was in the medical field in one capacity or another.

Typical dinner conversations were about what dad saw the night before at work. He worked the graveyard shift at the major trams hospital in Dallas. These conversations were pretty graphic at times. You developed a strong ability to deal with things that would cause most people and kids to puke.

It was tough last week finding out about my friend but I have moved forward in my own way. It's not healthy and understand this but I choose to feel the hurt and pain as quickly as possible and move on. I guess in some ways I may keep my self in the denial stage of grief but I also understand the truth of it and quickly move to acceptance.

I see to be better at dealing with death than I am at dealing with my with and her BPD symptoms.

Thank you everyone for the heartfelt replies, I do appreciate them. That was something I really did get to have when my father passed away in March this year. I was too busy trying to keep everything together for my family and handling all the arrangements that I never took the time to grieve. So thank you for being there for me.

[Hmcbart]

Hi Hmcbart,

I guess it's more difficult to see this when you have been painted black since April 6th. The silent treatment and all the other things that come with this time can wear on you. Constant egg shells.

This morning she called me to ask if my not calling or texting her was because someone else told me to do it or because I choose to do it. That wasn't the call I was expecting this morning. I thought she was calling because I had sent her some flowers to surprise her and say I love you. I thought the call was going to be a happy call. I guess the flower delivery had some bad timing. Anyway, it's been a rough couple of days and I'm emotionally and physically spent.

you are painted black. She is upset with you. And you send her flowers with simple message "I love you". How is that not invalidating? She is irritated by it and reaches out to you. Since when she is irritated she is not so rationale you get the biggest topic in her mind where she struggles with mightily: Lack of messages. If (and only if) pushed (hard) on that topic explain it (once) as a rule for yourself: "When I'm upset messages from me are not so well thought out and will only upset you further. After we have cooled off things work better. It saves pain on both sides.".

It is better to put a lot of validation before the "I love you". In SET format it could look like:

  S: Hey, I'm thinking of you

  E: we are struggling right now. Are upset about stuff that may or may not be so important but still is upsetting us greatly.

  T: getting over this takes time. Still want to let you know I love you.

I never thought of it this way. I have always done things like this out of the blue. I like to do little things that show I love her.  I had sent the flowers before she called so I didn't know there was a new issue on her mind. The message on the flowers was the same one I've sent for 20 years, I'm sentimental that way. It just said "I love you, love me". I've signed every note or card I've ever sent her with "Love, me". I really wasn't thinking validation, just that I thought she would appreciate getting some flowers.

[an0ught]

Hi Hmcbart,

traditions are important to sustain relationships so if flowers belong to it keep going. Still dialectical messages - life sucks / love you - may be working better than sending a message that ignores the obvious distress around her.

Becoming aware where we invalidate - with best intentions and considerable energy and resources - is an important first step to making things better.

[Stalwart]

anOught:

I always welcome reading your posts because they're so insightful. I can also so relate to just how my thinking has changed over the past few years into the exact things you say from where I was before.

It really is a difficult process to go from years of being painted black and turn that around in relationship to a constancy of being white. I truly understand the circumstances are different and more or less challenging for everyone but in my case after learning about the disorder it was really a planned and yes, challenging situation to maneuver the process of trying to clean years of black paint off my wife's pallet.

More or less in a general way I did it exactly how you've pointed out. It's the constancy of small things that remind her that I loved her, really not the big things. The quick emails during the day to say I love her and can't wait to get home. Buying flowers, and they don't have to be expensive and coming home and breaking them into three vases, one where she sits in the living room, one beside her side of the bed and one on the vanity in the bathroom, the consistency in any situation of gently touching her and telling her I love her on a constant basis in any situation.

Honestly it's all the small things that any woman or wife would want in her relationship - the thoughtfulness of knowing that you think about her, care for her, listen to her, are there for her and she really is so important in your life and in your heart. Maybe BPD makes that a more challenging connection to establish and keep but I really do believe it's just the common need of loving anyone in a relationship. Guys, well for me I don't need that stuff as much - but she does.

I really think when it comes to BPD it really has to do a lot with really understanding both object constancy or better put lack of it and simply finding a way of maintaining in her understanding that regardless of the issues you DO love her for the good and the bad, just the way she is.

A long and difficult challenge to change the dynamics to one where she again dabbed at the white acrylics on the pallet though, so it could come to the point of really knowing that you do love her just the way she is and for every challenge she faces and maintain that in the relationship as a constant (for two years anyway :-)).

It was sometimes difficult to maintain back a few years ago when I was still black. It's difficult to do when you're dodging bombs and shrapnel and running for cover in the craters but the constancy of doing it regardless of the situation and the determination to follow that plan and path really paid off for me in her finally seeing I'm there for her.

[IsItHerOrIsItMe]

My husband immediately relates any death to his own losses. Same with illness. It's almost like a competition to him as to who is the most depressed or sick.

My wife is the same way competition-wise... .

My dad's death was dominated by my deciding to inform my ex-w by email (even though she had just said in CT that if I CC'd her she'd be OK with any email correspondence... .)

2 years later when my mom passed it was dominated by my sending the email about my dad... .I didn't need to send one about my mom, because my ex responded that our D had informed her.

But that week was a 1-2 punch of "she lost her parents earlier" and "your connection to your ex is bigger than ours because you 'felt the need' to inform her about your dad... ."