Do pwBPD enjoy inflicting pain?

[bpdlover]

Mine seemed to enjoy being the victim so much that her voice would suddenly have purpose and intensity. If she had perceived I'd wronged her, the tone would alter and there would be a reason to go on. Finally, something I can use to get my heart started or something else. She was sick and abusive. A RO on her ex after she attacked him, locking him out for two years and then one on me, locking me out for two years. I'd say that she got something out of inflicting pain. Her parents may have given her a pat on the back for being their good little victim waif again, incapable of being in a loving relationship. Why did her parents push her to get these orders? Was it the right thing to do maybe? Can't say it's right due to the false statements and alienating children from good parents.

[diotima]

I think they get something out of inflicting pain too--trying to get back in control. Mine would get a glint in his eye... .thrive on chaos, etc.

Diotima

[newlife3]

 As SM and Diotoma note, the higher functioning ones have a lot of narcissitic traits, and often have other disorders, including other personality disorders with the BPD... very common for males to be BPD/NPD...

As BPD is a spectrum disorder, people will have a range of ability for reflection, insight, empathy and overall coping skills. This is why its so hard to spot a high functioning, one as they are usually quite successful in their professional lives...

So some may not be as vindictive as others, but to say they are not vindictive when dysregulated or decompensating is not really accurate... BPD's are known to make false allegations of abuse, sue their T & psychiatrists, engage in high conflict in divorce and custody matters. Their vindictiveness and not being able to "walk the middle path, let go" is part of their disorder...

My ex h BPD/NPD was a T... the false self ego part was the "nice guy", very empathetic and helpful to others, community causes, etc... BUT not with those closest to him, very narcissitic... Like Diotoma, would split his daughters, one was the 'perfect", one, and to the other he was very polite to but very distant...

[Zena321]

I'd like to jump in with my 2 cents . I agree with the last few posts . My H I believe is primary BPD and a close second NPD as I am just learning over the last year of this stuff... One thing I have known he is afflicted with and he will gladly admit to being extremely OCD or as I have learned there is an Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder a bit different and can't be helped with medicine like OCD and he fits those symptoms more so another PD for him and that has gotten worse with age with him he is 47 now  and like 50% worse than 12 years ago when I had met him.example along with his daily liss,monthly and longterm lists apparently he has lists at work and home because he called me once 4 days after I left a message for him and said he had just found a note he wrote himself in his pocket to call me back but didn't put the day or date so forgot when I called. His memory apparently is possibly getting worse too although back when I was with him I think it was more gaslighting and rewriting history than actually memory blips. Now though not sure it might really be memory...

So if its memory ought to be real fun in a courtroom when I divorce him finally not only will he drag it out because he is still full of piss and vinager but with possible real memory problems along with PD crap ... .

Maybe I should sell tickets to the soap opera to ensue to pay for a lawyer  LOL

[sm15000]

sm: sounds like we were involved with the same man.

I have read your posts and thought this also

He does have a deep-seated hatred of women (I met his BPD mother and can see how that came to be). He loved his two daughters, or rather he was enmeshed with one of them (she could do no wrong and was/is a princess) but he triangulated her with the other daughter, who won't speak to him.

My ex's parents are not alive. . .his mother died when he was about 18, his father when he was in his 30s before i met him.  When i think back, he didn't talk a lot about his parents and his childhood - what he did say was often repeats of the same stories.  I get the impression he was his mother's blue-eyed boy - his father was a police detective and i think an authoritarian who was always right and a womanizer.  There was something not resolved between him and his father before he died but i don't know what this was.

He has a daughter (22) and a son (14) from different relationships.  The daughter relationship is a bit 'princess' and a couple of years ago all of a sudden he started carrying around and using a wallet of her's from when she was a teenager (and obviously a teenage girl's wallet) and i found this a bit strange.  With his son, i feel like he wants him to be a carbon copy of him, his values, ideas etc but i think there may be trouble ahead with this.

Mine was a serial cheater--seemed to have no control over it. Ultimately I couldn't stand the infidelity and always knew when it was happening because he would suddenly lose 100% interest in me, which hurt like hell.

  over this. . .when i tackled him over issues of infidelity about a year ago and which was a factor in the relationship ending, he told me at the beginning of our relationship he had been seeing 6 other women - i believe he thought if he admitted to this, it would take me off the current issue and as it was from 10+ years ago he could get away with it.  For 6/7 years i'm not sure if he was unfaithful due to as you say the 'interest' factor. . .for the last couple of years i think he was shagging around again because his 'interest' in me changed radically and was easy to observe.  But he has always in his past been a serial cheater - i think he does it as the chase and the thrill tops up his confidence and self-esteem. . .and is put in place when he dysregulates or feels a threat of abandonment.

[diotima]

i think he does it as the chase and the thrill tops up his confidence and self-esteem. . .and is put in place when he dysregulates or feels a threat of abandonment.

Yup. My T described it as my ex seeing other women who would be interested in him as a "bank account." He felt he could draw on it if he needed to in order to prop himself up.  

"disgusting," as CP says about her latest incident on another thread. I never thought it would happen, but I am soo happy that this crap is out of my life.

Diotima

[WillThisGetBetter]

It's been more than a week now since I last heard from him.  I find myself missing that intense connection but not enough.  I am now emerging I think from 3 years of dense fog and all these memories come back to me... .how unbelievably bad it really was.

I was lonely, he and I had once been good friends, and there were good times.  But nothing and I mean nothing was worth the bad times.

I'm so grateful to finally be out of it.  I think about one his parting phrases, "Well at least now I can go have some sex".  That should have hurt me, but it didn't.  I almost wanted to hear it and some parting evidence of what kind of person I almost married.  It made leaving him easier.

[T2Logan]

I think it may be 1) projection, 2) devaluing your, 3)in the moment truly not understand what they're doing is as painful as it is (since they do not have the emotional ability as an adult), or 4) a combination of the above.

I know my BPD in the moment would say some extremely nasty things, call me names, bring up all my past trauma, and has even said I was less than human on more than one occasion. In calm, rational moments though, she admits she says these things on purpose and knowingly to hurt me, yet feels horrible that she does. This confused me, but rather than other thinking it, it took me a few times (ok, more than a few!) to practice "this is her TRYING to hurt me, she admitted it, I won't LET it hurt me!"

[truly amazed]

Howdy,

Forgot about this habit ... .

My ex even when her kids fell and hurt themselves and sometimes badly ... .her initial reaction was to ... .laugh   

Basically she could not relate to anothers pain and found it awkward to see someone in pain the lack of empathy on every level was there. To laugh at your own children when hurt says it all.

In the end if you cant undersand anyones feelings outside your own little world for me its not about them deliberatly taking revenge or inflicting pain for the sake of it. They just dont relate to it ... .outside their own constant pain.

This trait was highlighted to me when her new toy hurt himself and she thought it was funny. If you dont have empathy you cant understand anything ... .

Yuk yuk yuk

[findingmyselfagain]

I don't think "enjoy" inflicting pain in the sense that we think that they do. It's a vicious cycle of the disorder they suffer from. I can remember early on my ex didn't even like for me to say I "forgive" her. She took EVERYTHING as an attack or in the worst way possible. I've seen her in terrible emotional pain... .the first when I wouldn't give up my virginity when she expected it. *I* should have pushed for counseling then, but I didn't ask that much about it. I trusted her. When the relationship was in its collapse, she split wildly from one day to the next. I can't think she truly enjoyed anything, and was in a lot of pain herself. I was devalued to save her "false self." It had little to do with reality. One day it'll be nice if borderline was more publicized and studied for a cure. These people with the illness are humans like us, but we should let them go their own way and seek healthy relationships.

[bpdlover]

I think my ex was a narcissist for sure. She enjoyed being the victim but revelled just as much being "right" or "just" after she'd set up a smear campaign that was bogus. All the calls to and from her family and rescuer buddies pumped up her sense of grandiosity and it hit an all time high when I became sick from being her altruistic dependant caretaker. She used that fact that I cared too much against me in the end also. Yet of course, during the relationship I would be fired if I couldn't be there in ten minutes when she asked me for help. There was certainly BPD traits also. She is now gone and taken my child for almost two years. Not a trace of her. The strangest thing I have ever experienced. Have not been online for a while so hi to everyone here. Cannot say I am missing her anymore. I am now enjoying the benefits of T, the help of this site and the lessons that this relationship taught me about myself.

[stonehead]

That must be really hard for you Karen, I am sorry.

Most pwBPD actually do not enjoy hurting others - it honestly is not about you.  Many times their pain is so great that they project it onto you; as such the actions around that are really just more maladaptive coping skills - NOT designed to hurt you, simply a method for them to survive.

SB

I am sorry Seeking Balance, I have to disagree with you. My expeBPD told me directly that she knew what I was thinking and how I felt and she specifically wanted to humiliate and hurt me. She even said that that those were the words from GOD.  Later on, when she attended the New Year's party in my house, she purposefully ignore me in front of all the guests, when I greeted her. She acted as if I didn't exist. Such a cold and heartless creature!

[WillThisGetBetter]

You know, I think their illness compels them to be cruel and maybe they would like the option of making healthier choices, but let's get real.  These people know enough to get some help if that's what it takes and they also know enough to be kind, caring, considerate, actually almost surreally so in order to get their way.  Who cares?  As therapists and people who intend to stay in these life draining out of you relationships (God bless them), one has to take that approach or you'll never reach them.  We don't need to reach them anymore and we can stand back and look at what it really was.  My boyfriend broke up with me, he told me, many times, not because of engulfment issues but because he wanted his way.  All that unbelievable heartbreak I went through over and over because of a tantrum?  It had never occurred to me.  He was gracious enough to tell me that the last time we broke up, after telling him I never wanted to hear from him again, that this time he was not doing that, this time he really meant it.

[Gowest]

So when you are in recovery from the aftermath of a cluster B relationship, you must be honest with yourself- what exactly did you do? Did you serve this person? Or did you allow this person to serve you? If it's the former, then you are dealing with a Narcissist. And yes, they enjoy inflicting pain.

I do not believe my ex enjoyed inflicting pain. I read something ages ago about the dance between narcissists and borderlines and it was clear to me at the time that I was the narcissist in our relationship, though I'm sure now that I'm not a narcissist in general. I'm not sure about whether I'd say he served me, though I have an inkling that it's just me having a sulk because if he was meant to be serving me he didn't do a very good job of it. ;p

But no, it's true. For example, I would define serving me as actually not having sex with other women, but pretending to not have sex with other women and genuinely not wanting me to find out does look more like serving than being served... .I guess.

But then cutting me down to make himself bigger, that he liked for sure. Is that the same or different than inflicting pain? Ugh, my head hurts.

[avoidatallcost]

I do not believe my ex enjoyed inflicting pain.

I'm sure BP's can differ,  but I think a lot of them do enjoy inflicting pain.  I'm convinced that mine sure did.  I remember once watching a video by BPD expert AJ Mahari, in which she talked about how BP's seem to really dwell on revenge and getting back their partners a lot.  This would certainly explain a lot as to why they can be so mean, and hurt us so much especially in the breakup phase after they have decided to ditch us and they are secure with our replacement.

I think they do enjoy inflicting pain on us, the thing is the reason why they enjoy it is disordered due to their mental illness.  They think we deserve it, because - especially during the hater phase - they come to believe that we are their persecutors, their abusers, the people who are trying to hurt them.  Not only did my ex BP gf comment in her diary many times about how satisfied she was with certain put-downs of me, but she also mentioned that once her therapist told her that she was subconsciously treating me as her abusive schizophrenic mother.  In her diary, she would also mention how she realized something she did hurt me, but she seemed so detached, as if she was a total sociopath.  It's like she was in a laboratory, watching somebody get hurt and taking notes of their responses.  

For me, I was deeply in the fog at the time but now I'm starting to realize just how terrifying a situation I was in by being in love and so attached to this destructive young woman.  

I think they do enjoy inflicting pain on us, but I think the reasons they enjoy it are based on faulty perceptions of the world around them.  That's what makes their brains so disordered: they don't perceive the events around them the way "normal" people do.  

[stonehead]

I do not believe my ex enjoyed inflicting pain.

I'm sure BP's can differ,  but I think a lot of them do enjoy inflicting pain.  I'm convinced that mine sure did.  I remember once watching a video by BPD expert AJ Mahari, in which she talked about how BP's seem to really dwell on revenge and getting back their partners a lot.  This would certainly explain a lot as to why they can be so mean, and hurt us so much especially in the breakup phase after they have decided to ditch us and they are secure with our replacement.

I think they do enjoy inflicting pain on us, the thing is the reason why they enjoy it is disordered due to their mental illness.  They think we deserve it, because - especially during the hater phase - they come to believe that we are their persecutors, their abusers, the people who are trying to hurt them.  Not only did my ex BP gf comment in her diary many times about how satisfied she was with certain put-downs of me, but she also mentioned that once her therapist told her that she was subconsciously treating me as her abusive schizophrenic mother.  In her diary, she would also mention how she realized something she did hurt me, but she seemed so detached, as if she was a total sociopath.  It's like she was in a laboratory, watching somebody get hurt and taking notes of their responses. 

Wow! Avoidatallcost, I agree with your thinking 100%. My PBD actually told me she knew how I think and how I feel and that it was her intention to humiliate and hurt me! After she brokeup with me, she continued to ignore me even when I was standing infront of her, greeting her. She came to my party, ate my food and drink my stuffs and yet ignored me and treated me as though I did not exist, all designed to further humiliate me in front of my frends and relatives.

How can people claim that what these BPDs were doing was all about themselves and they do not want to hurt us?

[Marii]

     Mine seemed to be very sadistic and enjoy hurting me emotionally from time to time, as if it were all a game.  Make fun of me when I cried because she upset me. 

     

I grew up with a BPD mother and then ended up with two "friends", both of whom were BPD (yea, I know, history repeating itself). One was very close and the other was a more casual work friend. My mother was very severe, the close friend was pretty low functioning and the work friend was fairly mild, maybe not even clinically diagnosable.

I believe without reservation that my mother and the two friends were very reinforced by hurting.  It gave them a sense of power and getting vindication for all of their imagined and paranoid slights.

Think of it this way- you are at a movie and the "good guy" gets one up on the "bad guy". I imagine most people get some kind of vicarious rush or good feeling watching the "good guy" win. Well, in the mind of the BPD, they are always the good guy and we are the bad guys. The rush they get from hurting us is the same rush we would get from watching Bruce Willis be the hero in  an old Diehard movie.

[sea5045]

     Mine seemed to be very sadistic and enjoy hurting me emotionally from time to time, as if it were all a game.  Make fun of me when I cried because she upset me. 

     

I grew up with a BPD mother and then ended up with two "friends", both of whom were BPD (yea, I know, history repeating itself). One was very close and the other was a more casual work friend. My mother was very severe, the close friend was pretty low functioning and the work friend was fairly mild, maybe not even clinically diagnosable.

I believe without reservation that my mother and the two friends were very reinforced by hurting.  It gave them a sense of power and getting vindication for all of their imagined and paranoid slights.

Think of it this way- you are at a movie and the "good guy" gets one up on the "bad guy". I imagine most people get some kind of vicarious rush or good feeling watching the "good guy" win. Well, in the mind of the BPD, they are always the good guy and we are the bad guys. The rush they get from hurting us is the same rush we would get from watching Bruce Willis be the hero in  an old Diehard movie.

Yes mine is always with people with alcohol problems etc trying to be the hero, she did seem to think her raging was justifiable as she blamed me for things. And my mother does enjoy inflicting to try and keep me under control. But I'm 56 so get over it Thanks this I could relate to...

[marbleloser]

 I was witness to my exBPDgf being cruel to her H.I thought he deserved it according to the lies she told me about him.She would hide things from him,as to make him question his own mental sanity.She would sabatoge things.I finally told her to stop.That he had to be hurting(knowing we were having an affair) and to take it easy on him.She said she would.

I guess I have a bit of a mean streak in me as well for condoning it,but there comes a time when even I have compassion.Yeah,I was with his wife,and cheating on mine,but that kind of mental cruelty is too much on someone.My boundry I guess.

So,yes,they enjoy inflicting pain because they think you deserve it,but if they need something from you,they'll turn around and be the sweet person you think they are.Her poor H even drove her to the lawyers office so she could file for divorce to be with me.She told me that she "acted" all emotional and started crying to the lawyer about how bad her H was to her,so that the lawyer would lay into him.THAT was my first eye opener to how cruel and manipulating she is.It's calculated and cold.She herself told me that the only thing she didn't like about me was,I had a concience.She wished I didn't have one.That is a creepy and scary thing to hear someone say.Much less someone you are in love with,or thought you were anyway.

[bostonmom]

Yep, they actually THRIVE in their efforts to inflict pain on others ... .

in 2 txt's I've received today from my X-Fiance who is BPD ... .he referred to me, as the name that ONLY my dead son, used to call me by. (he is not father to that child, he never knew my son)

I ignored the first attempt to destabilize my day, when he did it the second time, I questioned him on it.

... .his reply was "I think it is cute" ... .  I never responded to him.

he is a mean, evil son of a btch.  we are only communicating bc of "issues" we need to be on the same page with.

[WillThisGetBetter]

Yup, in the end discussions mine used all the ammunition he could against me... .cruel, cruel stuff.  He knew it... .he had nothing to lose after I left him, so he threw it at me as hard and as fast as he could.  Fortunately, I didn't give him much material.

[bpdlover]

They do thrive. Creation of a crisis or event in which my ex can sit on the phone and tell as many people as possible who will listen made her feel wanted and special. She created what ever she needed to keep people in the cycle. The drama was all she had in the end. Take that away and what do you have? A hurt little child. I have been doing a lot of T lately. The gym is has become my second home. On the surface I have recovered considerably from the relationship. I haven't posted as much because I have let go and accepted her craziness. This is not the end for me though. I have come to know a lot because of this relationship and what I have discovered has made me sad. I am a lost little boy. I love attention and work very hard in my professional life to be the best I can be. Personally, I have a partner and we are practiced at the art of human doing rather than being. Because life is so busy, we rarely get time for each other between raising children and work. I have recently tried to sabotage myself again. My best friend told me that I was unhappy with my partner. My partner told me I'm not content with my life. I don't like excuses. T continues. I am altruistic and need to address how I gain self worth from saving or sabotage. I am hanging in there but only by a thread.