Was it OK to not commit?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hey guys,

Struggling again... .  Now with this question... .  Was it OK to not commit? I was incredibly under committed in some ways, over committed in others. But, I never moved in with her. I always kept her at a distance from friends and family. I never proposed to her. She claimed that all her bad behavior had to do with my not committing. I kept telling her that I wasn't committing because of her bad behavior. I can understand how my non-committment would have triggered her. For sure. But, I didn't really believe it would get better with more commitment. I thought that it might get worse. And I wasn't willing to take that chance. Now I'm doubting myself. Immensely.

I know that all relationships are different and all people are different. And my ex hasn't been diagnosed officially with BPD although I'm seeing a specialist in BPD right now who deals with both BPDers and those who have gotten involved with them. He tells me that she was way, way off the charts in terms of BPD/Narcisistic.

But, has anyone given in to the commitment issue and still have it not work? Did it get worse? Did it get better?

I was terrified of having kids with her. And I was terrified of giving up my life and work to move cities to be with her only to find out that she would still scream at me all the time and I would have to hide under the bed from her. But there is doubt. Maybe I did cause all this?

[willy45]

Hey guys,

Struggling again... .  Now with this question... .  Was it OK to not commit? I was incredibly under committed in some ways, over committed in others. But, I never moved in with her. I always kept her at a distance from friends and family. I never proposed to her. She claimed that all her bad behavior had to do with my not committing. I kept telling her that I wasn't committing because of her bad behavior. I can understand how my non-committment would have triggered her. For sure. But, I didn't really believe it would get better with more commitment. I thought that it might get worse. And I wasn't willing to take that chance. Now I'm doubting myself. Immensely.

I know that all relationships are different and all people are different. And my ex hasn't been diagnosed officially with BPD although I'm seeing a specialist in BPD right now who deals with both BPDers and those who have gotten involved with them. He tells me that she was way, way off the charts in terms of BPD/Narcisistic.

But, has anyone given in to the commitment issue and still have it not work? Did it get worse? Did it get better?

I was terrified of having kids with her. And I was terrified of giving up my life and work to move cities to be with her only to find out that she would still scream at me all the time and I would have to hide under the bed from her. But there is doubt. Maybe I did cause all this?

[waitaminute]

I was committed. Didn't matter. It wouldn't have mattered in your case either, I suspect. They have a script for both types of people.

[seeking balance]

Hey guys,

Struggling again... .  Now with this question... .  Was it OK to not commit? I was incredibly under committed in some ways, over committed in others. But, I never moved in with her. I always kept her at a distance from friends and family. I never proposed to her. She claimed that all her bad behavior had to do with my not committing. I kept telling her that I wasn't committing because of her bad behavior. I can understand how my non-committment would have triggered her. For sure. But, I didn't really believe it would get better with more commitment. I thought that it might get worse. And I wasn't willing to take that chance. Now I'm doubting myself. Immensely.

I know that all relationships are different and all people are different. And my ex hasn't been diagnosed officially with BPD although I'm seeing a specialist in BPD right now who deals with both BPDers and those who have gotten involved with them. He tells me that she was way, way off the charts in terms of BPD/Narcisistic.

But, has anyone given in to the commitment issue and still have it not work? Did it get worse? Did it get better?

I was terrified of having kids with her. And I was terrified of giving up my life and work to move cities to be with her only to find out that she would still scream at me all the time and I would have to hide under the bed from her. But there is doubt. Maybe I did cause all this?

What's going on with you emotionally to ask this question?

[dancinginthelight]

He tells me that she was way, way off the charts in terms of BPD/Narcisistic.


How can your specialist label your ex as way, way off the charts?

Im sorry but that does not come across as very professional coming from

a specialist, especially if he/she isnt involved with your ex.

[willy45]

He didn't label her. He said her behavior was way off the charts in terms of emotional abuse and BPD like behavior. Why do you care? That wasn't even my question.

[willy45]

And to answer Seeking Balance's question... .  

I miss her. I am in so much grief it feels unbearable. I am beating myself up for not trying hard enough. And I am beating myself up for not committing enough. I doubt my decision to leave. I doubt the way I did it. I miss the incredible things about her. I don't miss the abuse. I guess I was just wondering if anyone had committed, what the outcomes where? I guess I am speaking to the wrong crowd though, since everyone here is on the leaving board. Just wondering... .  Trying to stop beating myself up.

[Justadude]

The way I see it is, you judged her based on her behavior, you didn't trust something about her, you didn't accept something about her. Does it make you wrong or bad? No. Do you miss her. You betcha.

If it didn't work then, it's not going to work after some "commitment". Honestly, what commitment does she want from you? to not leave her while she treats you like crap?

Maybe you should go proposeo her. She sounds great. You outta just put a kick me sign on your back.

[willy45]

That's funny. It's true. I never really got her whole idea. She would yell and rage at me, flip out even worse when I yelled back. She once told me to use my 'big boy voice' after I started to argue with her because she called me an ___hole. And then right after that, she says: "So where is my proposal? Why haven't you proposed to me yet?"

[Changed4safety]

I was totally committed to my ex.  I let him move in, funded him, forgave him after TONS of cheating (mostly online), for punching my walls, and even for choking me.  We had an open relationship (I was married, my husband knew about him and even suggested he move in--H and I later divorced) but he used that as an excuse to hide me from his friends and lie about our relationship.  He was on medication, and sometimes when he was adjusting to a new one things got very bad.  Things came to a head when my father was dying in the hospital and he flipped out about his meds and kept texting me about them, and then four days after Dad's death flipped out again and had a psychotic episode.  I was so raw from the pain--it kind of killed something in me.

After the ep, he adjusted his meds and hey presto, suddenly he wants to marry me.  He did clean his act up a lot regarding the women and the violence, but too many things remained the same.  For the last year, he's been pursuing me, and something inside me kept saying "no".  Still wants to marry me, and oh the guilt trips I get because I still haven't quite found the ability to write him out of my life (we are platonic friends now.)

Long answer, but basically--nope.  I think your instincts were trying to protect you, honestly, in this case.  Now, you might want to look at your past and if you've not been able to commit to anyone, that's a whole other can of worms.  But with this--I would stop beating myself up about it.  She would likely have been ecstatic, then afraid of the intimacy, and a whole other battle would have started.

[seeking balance]

And to answer Seeking Balance's question... .  

I miss her. I am in so much grief it feels unbearable. I am beating myself up for not trying hard enough. And I am beating myself up for not committing enough. I doubt my decision to leave. I doubt the way I did it. I miss the incredible things about her. I don't miss the abuse. I guess I was just wondering if anyone had committed, what the outcomes where? I guess I am speaking to the wrong crowd though, since everyone here is on the leaving board. Just wondering... .  Trying to stop beating myself up.

There is nothing you could do differently... .  forgive yourself... .  you did the best you could with the information you had.

I married mine... .  less than a year later we were in MC and unknown to me at the time affairs were happening.  Another year later and full on divorce with attorneys fighting... .  finally another year passes and the divorce is final.

You dodged a bullet... .  let go and cry, feel the lonely... .  it won't hurt forever.

Forgive yourself.

[Slowlybutsurely]

Your exgf sounds like mine. Okay, so... .  

Occasionally, I would stifle the wise voice inside that said RUN LIKE HELL, and 'commit' to doing bigger stuff, like going to her work things, meeting her friends, having her meet mine, letting her meet my son, all that good stuff.

The result: She'd go off the deep end way more and make a fool of herself and me and I'd want to die of humiliation.

She once said that when things were going well, when she was getting what she wanted, it made her even more angry. I guess because then she didn't have anything legitimate to be angry about.

Go figure.

Had you 'committed' it would have gotten worse, much worse. I guarantee you.

You did the right thing. 

[ricky rick]

johnnyorganic,

It would never have worked no matter what. I went through the exact same thought process. Usually if somethings holding you back there is a reason. another thing I heard. Never move in with a BPD unless your getting married to one. Its damed if you do damed if you dont. They want your love and affection, thats why they want you to move in, then once that happens they feel smothered and push you away. Wanting you out. Its a no win situation. PERIOD!

[willy45]

Interesting... .  

I couldn't sleep beside my ex. She wouldn't let me. She felt smothered. She would actually build up a whole entire wall of pillows between us when we did sleep in the same bed.

When we first started dating, she said she couldn't sleep in the same room as her previous boyfriend because she felt the 'walls closing in on her'. And the guy before that she said that she felt smothered and would have to sleep on the couch.

With me, it was either I would have to sleep on the floor, she would sleep on the floor or a giant wall of pillows would be built between us. For some reason, I got used to this. I guess that isn't normal... .  

[healing_orlando]

Hi.  I never dated a BPD, but my mother is BPD.  You have no idea how many times I wished I had just dated one, that way i could just break up and move on.  Having a BPD mother, it is harder to move on because she will always be my mother.  There is nothing I can do about that.  I am not sure if this helps you at all, but I guess what I am trying to say is that not only will she not change, you should count your blessings that you were smart enough to move on and not get sucked in.  You WILL find somebody that will make you happy. Please be patient.

[Lady31]

Johnny,

Cut yourself a break man!    It would not have made a difference, it would have been worse!  You know in your heart why you were not wanting to "commit" or take the relationship to the next level.  You know what you were thinking at the time. 

Do not base this on what she says.  Base this on what YOU were experiencing.  While dating her, you can remember the thoughts that went through your head.  If you really had strong feelings for her (which it is obvious you did) why wouldn't you take it to the next level?  I doubt you would be lying here when saying that her behavior was concerning so you were keeping some distance. What would be the point?  SO... with that being said... .  

You actually responded in a more healthier way than most of us by not letting yourself get too sucked in when you saw all the red flags.

You should be patting yourself on the back here, not beating yourself up!  You did the right thing for yourself.  You have the good tools and boundaries which will help you in the next relationship and at least lower your risk of getting too involved in an unhealthy relationship.

As typical with BPD, that is her EXCUSE to try and rationalize her behavior.  I listened to my BPDh's excuses for years and that is what kept me in the fog and actually did a lot of damage to me.  I kept thinking "when I change this" or "when we get out of this problem" or "when he can quit his job" and on and on... .  

You care about her and want to make sure that you made the right decision.  You did.  If you were still with her and and made those commitments, then she would have to start finding other things wrong with you as a man or partner (or other external things like an illness, crappy job, financial problem, etc.) to blame the her crazy cycles on.  Thus causing more damage.

Trust yourself.

Also, my H also has a serious problem with intimacy.  It seems like he can only have sex when it is meaningless and not very connected.  He literally gets muscle spasms where I touch him.  If I put my hand on his arm, the muscles start twitching!  He piles the pillows up between us also, can't stand to be touched while sleeping, and will not share the same blanket/comforter.  I just resigned to sleeping on the couch as the constant rejection is too sad for me.

Best wishes to you, you are on the right road.

[sam-2012]

Johny,

Thanks for your post and i really relate with you thinking what i did wrong.

I tried to commit to with her.

We were having a discusion of leaving together and get married. She was really happy. Next day she droped it off. After months i proposed to her. She said yes. After some hours she got crazy and we had a big arguement. After one week she called the cops during one arguement that we had which she initiated, and which was one of the ( i lost counting ) arguements we had that week that i proposed her that she initiated. Needless to say we are not together anymore. I still try to recover adn i still miss her madly some days. The truth is that this was not something that is good for me. I do not believe that it would get better.

[ricky rick]

Johnny,

Just responding to your post, My exBPD was a cuddle bunny. Wanted to be close all the time. Especially in bed. We were twiisted up like a pretzel. I think she felt safe and secure. Anyone else have the same?

[elemental]

Your lack of committment was likely feeding into a circular situation.

Catch - 22

As BPD, she would have triggered off of it and become upset.

Honestly, if you wanted to stay with her, and understand why she was triggering and how your responses and actions were feeding into it... and she flipped out even more... you will find your answers over on the staying board and by reading the workshops and lessons.

I see a lot of people on this part of the board asking WHY and wanting validation and reassurance that they didn't mess up.

You were in a relationship with someone with BPD. They are not operating from the same world view you are.

So if you want to "get it" spend time on staying board and the other information and lessons.

Broadly, you didn't have the tools to handle her in a productive way. How could you have even known until a lot of damage was done and you were so spooked and the catch 22 had set in?

No way you would have.

So was she all over the place and upset and lashing out and freaking out? Sure she was. Was it your fault? And are you wrong for not committing and for the circular arguments, etc? You played your part and fed into her problems and made it worse for both of you. We all do until we learn differently.

Is this your fault? You did the best you could at the time under difficult conditions. What is there to condemn you for? If you are moving on, accept the circumstance you fell into as part of the problem, and BPD was probably not even on your radar.

No one really is to blame that you didn't know. That she probably didn't understand.

It happens.

If you want her back, though... you can learn the tools and have enormous effect on how it would go down this time.

You sound kind of PTSD, though. You are your own priority. Heal your own self before anything else.  

[hithere]

And I wasn't willing to take that chance. Now I'm doubting myself. Immensely.

In my opinion you saved yourself from a life-time of misery.

I moved in, fathered her children, apologized for her rude behavior, supported her position when I knew it was wrong, etc... .  she turned on me, tormented me emotionally and painted me black.  Eventually you will meet someone new and normal and it will put all this into perspective, until then stay strong.

[ExTreme]

 Not committing is a good idea when you're insecure in your r/s.  Not committing to two (possibly more) women at the same time (4.5 for me and 2.5 years for another) and they don't know about your concommitant r/s? Sleazy.

[willy45]

Hey Extreme,

What are you talking about?

[seeking balance]

Johnny,

What helped me was article 9. https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm

Anytime I was in the emotional place like you are now - I could go back to the false beliefs and see where my wrong thinking was causing my emotional pain.

Based on your post - wouldn't False Belief 3 about sum it up?

3) Belief that the relationship problems are caused by some circumstance or by you

You concede that there are problems, and you have pledged to do your part to resolve them.

Because there have been periods of extreme openness, honesty, humanity and thoughtfulness during the relationship, and even during the break-ups, your “BPD” partner’s concerns are very credible in your eyes. But your “BPD” partner also has the rather unique ability to distort facts, details, and play on your insecurities to a point where fabrications are believable to you.

It’s a complex defense mechanism, a type of denial, and a common characteristic of the disorder.

As a result, both of you come to believe that you are the sole problem; that you are inadequate; that you need to change; even that you deserve to be punished or left behind.

This is largely why you have accepted punishing behaviors; why you try to make amends and try to please; why you feel responsible. But the problems aren’t all your fault and you can't solve this by changing.

The problems are not all of your partner’s fault either.

This is about a complex and incredibly “loaded” relationship bond between the two of you.

Focus on the facts while you process the emotions - this is a complex healing process.

Peace,

SB