Need advice on how to get DH to start using BT techniques and stop sabotaging

[mamachelle]

I'm feeling like my H will never take the time to read about, or  use any DBT or other behavior  techniques with his sons SS 8,  10, 15. We also have my 2DD 13and16 and 21 month old so weekends are packed for me as it is and I seriously need my DH to sign on and use some of these behavior techniques and not let things escalate and resort to threats and more empty yelling which does no good.

All 3 SSare emotionally dysregulated. SS10 acts like he has BPD, is dx emerging Bipolar. He sometimes is predatory to SS8. sS10 is on lamictal 25mg 2x day.

I have spent the past 18 months reading, implementing, and working with different therapists in and out of the home to help these boys cope and learn better ways of interacting.

Every weekend especially my younger SS 8 and10 get wacky. I have tried to get H to plan things with the boys. To do anything involving structure or fun like working on a project or going to a movie.

All he ever does is plan complex meals, takes boys shopping, buys them food... .  SS10 eats compulsively so the food bit just plays into his issues.

Every weekend Boys get into fights with each other and with dad.

It's like watching the same bad scenario play out time after time.

Has anyone had this experience where the other parent or caregiver would not consciously sabotage the behavior therapy techniques but end up doing so by just engaging in fights or ignoring behavior over and over.? My H with reminders and prompts will do what he is supposed to but constantly reverts back to some 1950s style of parenting... .  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[griz]

mamachelle:

My H tries very hard but struggles with remembering when and how to use most of the DBT techniques.  It can be madening at times but i found it really helpful if I model the techniques for  him.  Here is an example, I hope it helps:

DD comes in angry after a long day at school and work.  She is exhausted and this can disregulate her.  She sits down at the dinner table and does not take off her coat and is responding with one word answers.  DH's normal reaction would be to say.  Why don't you take off your coat and calm down.  Stop eating so fast.  Why are you in a bad mood?  He doesn't realize that his well meaning questions are just barraging her with more input making the situation worse.  I normally will jump in before he even opens his mouth. Sometimes i will give him a cue to not speak yet and I will say to her.  Wow you had some day you must be exhausted (validating how she is feeling).  She will usually respond with something like yea, I am so tired.  I will then follow up with, "anything I can help with tonight?".  Usually the answer is no thanks.  Then I am just quiet for a while and let her breath.  I may resume speaking with saying something about my day or asking dh how his day was.  I let her join in the conversation when she is ready.

This usually gets h to observe the conversation and take my lead.  Maybe you can set up a cue with your H when his sons get out of hand and you can take the lead.  I also found that if I ask my husband to plan something with D he either does nothing or he asks her to do one thing and if she says no he retreats to his computer with the excuse that he tried.  Now I give him a plan such as DD needs to take some photos for school. I told her you can do this together on sat morning...  

Griz

[mamachelle]

Thanks griz

I will try to do this. (I have done it- but then I forget too or get fed up I guess) It is completely maddening that I am the only one really using any sort of effective BT with these kids.  It's also sadly comforting to know I am not the only one dealing with this.

H see that the techniques work, yet he will still "retreat to his computer" like your H and in DH case he often ignores the escalation with the computer or iphone... .  Or he will act quickly and use the completely wrong practice and punishment and threats that amount to nothing.

Like,

"YOU ARE DRIVING ME NUTS. DON"T YOU SEE THAT YOU 2 ARE DRIVING ME CRAZY AND I JUST CAN"T TAKE IT ANYMORE. YOU HAVE TO BEHAVE!"

"YOu will GO TO BED EARLY IF YOU KEEP DOING THIS!" empty threats... .  

This morning SS10 and SS8 decided to try shoveling snow with Dad. It was a mess as SS10 was not wearing boots, wanted his brothers gloves, wanted to use someone else's shovel. At about 10 minutes in, my H decides to yell at SS10 for not wearing the boots (that he forgot to get from school) , for not listening, for being a pain, for forgetting the boots, the gloves ... .  and it was like big drama with doors slamming, kids being escorted inside the front door, fleeing the back door... .  fun to watch for my toddler who just saw it all happening as like a tv show but my H was nearly a wreck at the end, exhausted   

With me, my SS know I don't put up with this behavior. I can't. It nearly killed me last year. There was an incident where SSthen8 threw a snow boot at my head (missed) when I told him he needed to wear it. This was before the BT and before the meds. My H at the time was on his way home and I was really upset and he said something like "They can sense when you are scared and so you need to not be scared" Well the reality is, I have resolved to not get to that point where I feel like I could get hurt and doing that means keeping with the BT and keeping with the plan.

The problem is when both of us are home and it's me Stepmom going after them I become the b****. H backs me up sometimes, but other times he is just like completely overwhelmed and will wait til the boys have really said something awful to go after them.

Sigh. This stuff just isn't easy.

It's a messed up dynamic and very tiring, but I will continue to do it because in the end it saves my sanity and hopefully helps my SS and their sibs.

[MammaMia]

Mamachelle -

Where is the boys' bio mother?  What is going on here is not fair.  If she is capable and in the picture, both she and your H must do more to be helpful and not create issues.  They cannot dump all the responsibility onto you.  These boys are still young, and the worst is yet to come when the teenage years strike.  You need help now.

[mamachelle]

Hey MammaMia,

Guess what, their mom has BPD... .  She gave up residential parent during the divorce and though she has joint custody and supposedly 50/50 parent time she has never been able to do that. 18 months or so ago she moved to live with her mother across the country. It's good in that I can help the kids more, but it has subconsciously increased the abandonment issues esp in SS10 who I believe is enmeshed somehow with his mom even though they don't live together that much of the year. (Boys now spend part of the summer with her) Grandma has been supporting her for years and the boy's Mom was able to justify moving because she was going to help Grandma run the business and eventually take it over and oh she had a BF (that she had met online and moved in and abusive now exBF) also wanting to return there. Latest fun fact is that BPDMom had a DUI last year, suspended license, now using breathalyzer in the car with her sons in it... .  Long story, but BPDMom's Mother could easily be posting on this board if she weren't also probably PD in some way... .  

I know, it sounds completely awful writing it out.

it's better than it was last year, but still very frustrating. This board is interesting to me as I have not hit the teen years with SS10 though I have with my DD and Ss15 (who has autistic traits and became suicidal and psychotic last year as well and had to be hospitalized).

I have done a lot of work, but I really need DH to step up. I need to learn more too.

My exH also suffers from BPD. When my new NonH and I were just getting together 6 years ago and got married, the SS behavior could be blamed on BPDMom.

,

Now, that whole line has gotten old and I am  trying to be as proactive as I can.

Thanks for the concern.  It helps to have these boards to learn from.

[MammaMia]

Wow!  You are outnumbered!  Your life is very complex, and I do not know how you do everything.  That is a huge burden.  I suspect your nonH may still be suffering from burn-out from his past BPD marriage.  Not that it matters... .  he has a responsibility to help care for his new family. Your exh was also BPD?  I think you deserve a little burn-out as well.  Is he able to help  with your daughter?   

Have you considered couples or family counseling?  Maybe your nonH needs an outsider to give him a wakeup call and remind him of where his priorities NEED to be ... .  and re-enforce the fact that you cannot and should not do it all.

I had a feeling the bio-mom was mentally ill, addicted, or both.  That definitely puts you, your nonH, and the boys between a rock and a hard place, and while you, obviously, want to help all the children, remember... .  you also need time for yourself.  It will not help anyone if you get sick.

Do you have any family nearby that help you?  Even a weekend off once in a while would be welcome relief.

[lbjnltx]

Hello mamachelle,

Can you tell us what investments in education your dh has made?  Family counseling?  Books read? Parenting classes attended?

Here are a few good resources for basic parenting:

"I Don't Have To Make Everything All Better"  it's an easy read with clear directives in validation

"Parenting a Child Who Has Intense Emotions"  a dbt skills basic for using to parent highly emotional children.

[mamachelle]

Hi lbjntx and mammamia

I have read both those excellent books.

I have distilled them down for H as much as possible.

He has read excerpts of the books that I've highlighted.

H will do whatever I tell him, the problem is getting him to stick with it.

We are huge consumers of the mental health system these days.

H has been to many counseling sessions for all 3 sons, family sessions to some extent but not the whole family.

We've also had behavior analysts and therapists coming to the house a few times a month so we have charts for tv watching, chores, eating, rules. We were on tickets but that got old so we switched to 1 dollar a day and they lose.25 for each time we decide they've been misbehaving.

We have not done marriage counseling.

Tonight when I got home he was making dinner. SS  8 and 10 started fightng about who could raise more money for a fundraiser ... .  Ridiculous I know.

He started with the "you better stop or I'll send you to bed at 8!"

I said,

Oh uh no! You need to stop saying that. You never send them to bed early. So stop threatening.

I said, listen they lose a quarter, they lose a quarter. This our behavior therapy plan and if you don't follow it, we are toast.

He said, uh uh... .  Ok. And he switched right into the right BT mode.

I know my sitch sounds untenable, but really SS10 is my biggest concern.

All other BPDs in my life are stabilized, NC, or not causing issues.

My 3 teenagers are ok. Getting good grades. SS15 is in a great program now. He is doing really well.

dD13 and  16 are doing well. None of my teens are doing bad stuff, drugs, risky stuff.

SS8and 10 are doing ok in school and look at me like their mom. They like me and all kids love their little bro too.

Thanks for the support today. Tomorrow me and H are going out to work on an art project together and getting dinner. I'll reiterate that we need to keep up this BT stuff. It's the only thing that works.

[MammaMia]

mamachelle

It sounds like you are doing everything you can to help your children, and your h is willing to help, but sometimes when the kids act out, he forgets about BT and reacts with meaningless threats.  Well, we are all creatures of habit, and we all blurt things out without thinking.  He needs to make a conscious effort to change his "automatic" responses.

This may sound silly, but perhaps you could post reminders around the house where he has interaction with the kids to encourage him to use BT and discourage threats.  Threats without follow-through are just noise, and kids know this.  Since BT is working, it needs to become a spontaneous response ... .  especially when you are not around to remind him.

Tell him you will remove his visual reminders as soon as they become one of his "good" habits.

Just a thought... .  

[lbjnltx]

Hello again mamachelle,

Thanks for the information.  You do have a great deal on your plate ma'am!

I think it is fairly typical... .  the scenario... you research, read, study and share with your husband... .  he listens and makes an effort... .  I think we value what we have invested much in... .  we can only do what we can do.

In our home, with our d16, my dh is a big kidder... he tries to lighten situations with humour... .  which isn't always appropriate.  I usually give him a signal of some kind that it isn't appropriate at this time.  He usually will stop.  During the times when he becomes emotionally involved himself or forgets to use his skills I will validate his feelings and then ask a validating question... .  like "I understand why you feel frustrated" " How is this helping in the moment?"

In all fairness, it's the same question I ask my d16 and she asks me.  We are all held accountable at the same level.  As parents we need to behave the way we want our children to behave. We need to be willing to use the skills we are asking them to use.  We also need to be ready to fail from time to time, admit our mistakes, commit to doing it differently next time and get on with it. 

lbj

[mamachelle]

Thanks ... .  I've been rereading your posts and feeling like I'm not alone in this. I've been prompting H and now he's doing it as well without prompts too. I know it won't last, I know he won't read or research as much as me, but I just have to keep going... .  


Mammamia

There was one time where my H put up reminders for himself after I got so frustrated with him for forgetting to give the behavior tix before bed. I was just saying, why are we spending all this money and time on BT and therapy and throwing it all away!  We've changed the system now so that I write on the calendar if they earned their $ as they kept losing the tix anyway... .  

Lbjnitx

Yes, my H uses humor that does not go over so well sometimes with DD16 and she is not BPD so I can't imagine it would work too well with your DD either. Part of his issues are that the behavior therapists look so young. It's been hard for him to take them seriously because they have no kids themselves.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders