I reached that "place" i read about.

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

the detaching has been going on for a while, two weeks ago the verbal abuse was so bad in my mind I "left" the r/s and decided I was done.

What was left for me was how to go about getting my expensive items back (motorcycle, mtn bike family items). I had accepted I would lose the 2,500.00 I lent to him. Small price in the scheme.

We spoke last night, with some distance I am able to see a little more clearly. I am beginning to see my participation and surely will uncover more as I start the healing. Last night I changed my reactions, my thoughts about the words exchanged. My head FINALLY felt healthy. And in this head-space I was able to see my past dysfunction, my need for (possibly unreasonable)understanding (both of myself and of him) and the overall dysfunction between us. (mind you I realize this is new and I have much to feel and experience as I move forward, but I felt I was exercising my boundaries without fear. I was both sad about the experience and grateful for my inner strength.)

I was very calm, rational and used few words, used the tools (SET) and heard him blame me for "everything" over and over. I did not defend it. This is his view. While listening to him I thought "An emotionally mature adult would not respond in the ways he is responding. A mutually invested and caring partner would not continue to yell, curse, and scream when met with calm or empathic responses. A person who is accountable would stop themselves before they said repeated damaging words, when asked with kindness to refrain because it hurts."

He did show moments of clarity, but they were overshadowed with what appeared to me to be a loss of power(?) I was not reacting from fear.

I did get caught once in a mind game, and responded by calling him out. Not a good idea. I quickly retraced my steps and reverted to how it made me "feel" without any judgment.

I let him know I am responsible for my actions between us over the last 5 years and I am not proud of myself and said I feel I am not responsible for his behaviors. He started down the track of saying things like "I'm at the bottom, I just want to go to bed and not get up ever again. But if I do that tomorrow will be worse" and other things of this nature and I only responded with what I hoped to be supportive statements. I said "When I feel down I try to do something to distract myself with something I know I enjoy for an hour and it often leads to lifting my spirits a bit." And other removed but supportive suggestions for him to take care of himself.

For some reason something has changed. I feel/know/understand I am not responsible for his feelings or his happiness, nor is he responsible for mine.  And, if I am honest with myself, and this one hurts a bit, it feels that when I made it clear I was not willing to fund our living situation on my own and needed for him to explain his financial back-up plan - this is when he became VERY angry.

I wondered if my reflecting back what he believes is his personal failures turned me black. I do not judge him, he works hard and has had some bad luck with the economy, but I will not invest or risk my good financial position when our r/s is also broken.  He cannot accept this need I have for security in our r/s before I invest in something which is also a risk.

The pattern to me is clear and dysfunctional. It would be a challenge in the best of r/s's. The volatility added (ie: lack of respect, rages, lies, twisting exaggerations, mind games), makes is a deal breaker.

The "place" I refer to in the title is a place where I feel I have "let go". I feel a glimpse of who I was before I met him and I like that woman.

I know there is much to come for me in this decision, maybe I am just numb? I have plenty to feel angry about, but I have been so angry inside for months it feels like this has only hurt me. I can't change any of the past but I only feel the need to take care of myself right now.

Thoughts? Anyone else had this experience where you love them but letting go hurts less than going on?

[wishingwell17]

the detaching has been going on for a while, two weeks ago the verbal abuse was so bad in my mind I "left" the r/s and decided I was done.

What was left for me was how to go about getting my expensive items back (motorcycle, mtn bike family items). I had accepted I would lose the 2,500.00 I lent to him. Small price in the scheme.

We spoke last night, with some distance I am able to see a little more clearly. I am beginning to see my participation and surely will uncover more as I start the healing. Last night I changed my reactions, my thoughts about the words exchanged. My head FINALLY felt healthy. And in this head-space I was able to see my past dysfunction, my need for (possibly unreasonable)understanding (both of myself and of him) and the overall dysfunction between us. (mind you I realize this is new and I have much to feel and experience as I move forward, but I felt I was exercising my boundaries without fear. I was both sad about the experience and grateful for my inner strength.)

I was very calm, rational and used few words, used the tools (SET) and heard him blame me for "everything" over and over. I did not defend it. This is his view. While listening to him I thought "An emotionally mature adult would not respond in the ways he is responding. A mutually invested and caring partner would not continue to yell, curse, and scream when met with calm or empathic responses. A person who is accountable would stop themselves before they said repeated damaging words, when asked with kindness to refrain because it hurts."

He did show moments of clarity, but they were overshadowed with what appeared to me to be a loss of power(?) I was not reacting from fear.

I did get caught once in a mind game, and responded by calling him out. Not a good idea. I quickly retraced my steps and reverted to how it made me "feel" without any judgment.

I let him know I am responsible for my actions between us over the last 5 years and I am not proud of myself and said I feel I am not responsible for his behaviors. He started down the track of saying things like "I'm at the bottom, I just want to go to bed and not get up ever again. But if I do that tomorrow will be worse" and other things of this nature and I only responded with what I hoped to be supportive statements. I said "When I feel down I try to do something to distract myself with something I know I enjoy for an hour and it often leads to lifting my spirits a bit." And other removed but supportive suggestions for him to take care of himself.

For some reason something has changed. I feel/know/understand I am not responsible for his feelings or his happiness, nor is he responsible for mine.  And, if I am honest with myself, and this one hurts a bit, it feels that when I made it clear I was not willing to fund our living situation on my own and needed for him to explain his financial back-up plan - this is when he became VERY angry.

I wondered if my reflecting back what he believes is his personal failures turned me black. I do not judge him, he works hard and has had some bad luck with the economy, but I will not invest or risk my good financial position when our r/s is also broken.  He cannot accept this need I have for security in our r/s before I invest in something which is also a risk.

The pattern to me is clear and dysfunctional. It would be a challenge in the best of r/s's. The volatility added (ie: lack of respect, rages, lies, twisting exaggerations, mind games), makes is a deal breaker.

The "place" I refer to in the title is a place where I feel I have "let go". I feel a glimpse of who I was before I met him and I like that woman.

I know there is much to come for me in this decision, maybe I am just numb? I have plenty to feel angry about, but I have been so angry inside for months it feels like this has only hurt me. I can't change any of the past but I only feel the need to take care of myself right now.

Thoughts? Anyone else had this experience where you love them but letting go hurts less than going on?

[Surnia]

Sounds like you are on a healthy path, wishingwell! 

It feels good when we know what is ours and what not - I can relate so with it!

And no, I dont think you are numb. Enjoy the days when it feels good.

What can I say - keep going with it. With your new detached life. 

[wishingwell17]

thanks for your words of encouragement Surnia,

intellectually I understand. And, this feels like a healthy choice (finally).

However, I believe the feelings I have surrounding this "ending" are surfacing today. The disappointment in myself, the pain of being painted black ( told I'm crazy in the most abusive manner) and sorting out the reason I stayed after the first rage, 2nd, 3rd... .  and when he raged at me the day I found out my mother had just a few weeks left. I feel extremely raw today and physically sick for the loss someone who at times I felt loved me very much and said "forever" and the next day was able to hate me and rage such awful things.

I was not clever or strong enough to handle the trials of his personality and I even though I thought I was strong enough to walk away and feel better, this was more of me fooling myself.  It is going to hurt for a myriad of reasons very much and will take time, self care and work. I also think it has brought up some things from my past ( sister ) of which are beginning to make sense to me about why my boundaries for abuse did not exist.

( he left another message today and said "I'm fine today, resigned that it is what it is. Hope you have a good day" In a happy tone. OUCH.

thankfully I read the grieving threads and understand sometimes pwBPD grieve in reverse.)

I know a fast forward button would not serve me well in the long run, but I sure wish for it right now  

[Distraught-m-in-mn]

Wishingwell17,

In my situation I FINALLY drew a hard boundary line about 6 weeks ago.  If you drink again, we will split up.  Of course 3 weeks later she's passed out at he sisters laws house.

So we separated.  That separation has given me such clarity of thought and purpose.  I don't have to worry about what I'm coming home to every night.  I'm sleeping so much better.  And like you, I'm beginning to see things as they truly are, and able to view them from an almost clinical perspective. 

Over the past week it's been interesting to see how she's progressed thru several of the traits.  Waif, witch, and queen.  And back.  I'm also beginning to catch on more and more to her passive aggressive ploys to try and get what she wants. 

It's simultaneously frustrating and enlightening.  But it's tolerable because now I'm armed with knowledge.

So.  To conclude my rambling.  I understand what you are feeling and how tough it is. Stay strong.  Maintain your boundaries, and don't be sucked back in!

[wishingwell17]

D-m-i-m,

Hearing your story shores up my strength in this bizarre maze. thank you.

the "traits" you witnessed in your partner, I completely relate as you will soon read below.

(I am doing my best to emotionally stay on the "outside" of the roller coaster by keeping my contact in the realm of "succinct, and only when necessary"

After his message yesterday which I believed/understood at the time confirmed his understanding that the relationship is finished, another came when I was out last evening. He was in his kind voice, wants to talk again, he stated "this is just a separation". I just sighed to myself. Is this a control tactic? Does he just not want me to pick up my things? I will be doing this anyway, tomorrow I'll pick up my mtn bike and  I made an appt to tune up my bike in which I will need to take it to them which requires moving it.

In the past time apart has not helped me grow stronger, (because he had "dumped" me out of the blue during some rage and I had few tools or knowledge back then as well as all my own issues surrounding the chaos).  Or, did he block out our last conversation completely? I have no idea. It really doesn't matter which it is, what matters is I hold my boundaries and as you said "not get sucked back".   

It IS frustrating to be sure, but at the same time I think "at least I have some space to get even stronger". And like you mentioned, it feels good to know each day is what I make it and eggshells are nowhere to be found.

Wishing you continued strength and clarity (too). Thanks for the hope! 

[OTH]

I think you have a very good mindset. It is a hard process. I still had a great deal of love for my ex when I finally gave up and started moving on. She moved out after I came back from a 4 day trip. We were at a high point when I left so it was a shock. She only packed a few things and left all her stuff behind. We had torturous push/pull cycles for the next few months until she swore at me and called me names. Something I didn't tolerate when we were together and I sure wasn't going to tolerate it after she moved out. I gave her a day to calm down and called her up letting her know that I could understand there are a lot of difficult emotions between us but I was not going to be talked to that way. That no matter how difficult things were between us I had never talked that way to her. She blew up at me and told me She didn't feel the need to sugar coat anything and I was just going to have to learn to deal with it.

I was done. We didn't talk for two weeks after that. Before the argument she had asked me to do her a favor while she was gone over Christmas and I refused when she finally called and asked. She had to find someone else. When she got back I told her I was moving all her stuff into a storage facility and I'd drop off a key. She insisted she would come get her stuff. The first day she came she saw my change and cried. I had finally hit the limit. I still loved her but I was done trying.

I continued to love my ex for a long time after. We began talking again. I had found this board and used the tools with some success. I was never interested in getting back together but I still had strong feelings for her.  I did learn more about her struggles and she opened up a bit more about her real feelings. I thought we had reached a better place but she began telling lies about myself and her family to me. I wound up not being able to look away so we can't talk anymore.

I rehash my story just to say stay strong. You can't deny your feelings but you can always make the best decisions for your long term future. 

[wishingwell17]

OTH,

Wow, I'm so sorry for what you went through. I'm impressed you had the strength to speak and explore her feelings after your break up and have empathy and compassion for her. It feels like you honored yourself and stayed strong by ceasing contact. How far away from your r/s are you now?

I, like you, still feel a lot of love for him, our good times, his great qualities. It hurts to realize I will need to find my own closure and work through the push/pull and love/hate dynamics which have been our entire r/s on my own. I felt my internal switch go off not too long ago. I was done trying (too). I have always been the optimistic one, searched for solutions, paid for counseling, bought books to help us. This is a completely new feeling to love someone and also acknowledge that in order to be loved myself I MUST move on. (by being loved myself I mean, love myself). His version of love has no empathy. His definition of relationship is how it will serve him and make him feel. For me to ignore the very strong message in his brutal words and anger filled actions is tantamount to self-abuse at this point.

I have this week of which he now claims is "a separation" to do a few things. Pick up my larger items, change the locks on my house, invest in myself by hitting the gym, taking a day trip with a friend to the mountains and on Friday I am participating in a local benefit for children and the arts.

My friends are very pleased and supportive now I have made this decision. They tease and say I stayed due to my "unreasonable need for reason and understanding". There is some sad truth in the jest and it has challenged me to reevaluate my need for both understanding and feeling understood.

thanks for your words - it helps much. today I am doing well and feeling strong. I'll try to repeat tomorrow.

[wishingwell17]

p.s. I will add that I feel his new "this is only a separation" is also just for him to feel connected to some 'thing'(me) while he is online and out securing a new person to make him feel attractive/better (or not feel). Yeah it hurts, it is the pattern in every break up and it is out of my control.  As I mentioned, I'll use this time as well - to be able to move my things without chaos and drama. For this I am actually grateful.

I keep telling myself no matter how the goal is reached, it will be reached. And, this is what matters to my long term happiness.

[OTH]

The time we spent communicating helped to lessen my emotions over time. I didn't need to have that nostalgic feeling for the old times because I realized what I was dealing with was the real human. We still had arguments and difficulties.  It helped us both come to a mostly soft landing and there was no more mirroring or idealizing on either of our parts.  It is a strange illness. When she went off the deep end because of a family situation. I was detached at that point and decided to let things die out. I called her out on it and let her go. I know some really horrible things she has done concerning her family. I am sure I am not somebody she will seek out for comfort. I know where the bodies are buried. I know fully who she is. The good and the ugly is all the same person.

The time we spent after the fact was a gradual process of turning more and more attention to my own self care and less worrying about her and her future. In the end I took a new job back near my mother. Who wound up letting me down (literally right after I moved back) in a way that brought up our past problems. I've been working on my FOO issues ever since. LOL. I am over my ex now. I'm mostly focused on trying to heal my relationship with my mother. I moved away from my family when I was 18. I thought we were fine but distance and fun holidays are easier than getting along on a daily basis. It safe working on my relationship skills with my mom. Hopefully we both heal our old wounds and can find a way to understand and appreciate each other as unique human beings. I'm back to my old self. I'm really not much different except that I find I question myself more. I'm not as certain as I used to be. I've had some hard knock lessons here. I'm still trying to figure out how to process them into future relationship decisions. I know I am on the right path for me at this time in my life. It is up to my ex to find her own path to healing. We finally parted and let each other go. 

OTH,

Wow, I'm so sorry for what you went through. I'm impressed you had the strength to speak and explore her feelings after your break up and have empathy and compassion for her. It feels like you honored yourself and stayed strong by ceasing contact. How far away from your r/s are you now?

I, like you, still feel a lot of love for him, our good times, his great qualities. It hurts to realize I will need to find my own closure and work through the push/pull and love/hate dynamics which have been our entire r/s on my own. I felt my internal switch go off not too long ago. I was done trying (too). I have always been the optimistic one, searched for solutions, paid for counseling, bought books to help us. This is a completely new feeling to love someone and also acknowledge that in order to be loved myself I MUST move on. (by being loved myself I mean, love myself). His version of love has no empathy. His definition of relationship is how it will serve him and make him feel. For me to ignore the very strong message in his brutal words and anger filled actions is tantamount to self-abuse at this point.

I have this week of which he now claims is "a separation" to do a few things. Pick up my larger items, change the locks on my house, invest in myself by hitting the gym, taking a day trip with a friend to the mountains and on Friday I am participating in a local benefit for children and the arts.

My friends are very pleased and supportive now I have made this decision. They tease and say I stayed due to my "unreasonable need for reason and understanding". There is some sad truth in the jest and it has challenged me to reevaluate my need for both understanding and feeling understood.

thanks for your words - it helps much. today I am doing well and feeling strong. I'll try to repeat tomorrow.

[Clearmind]

Wonderful! Good for you

My ex also wanted to catch up for "the chat" - you sound like you are in a better place, mentally to do this than I was. I felt invalidated at the time because I was still so confused.

[Distraught-m-in-mn]

Wishingwell17,

It's so very comforting to know that someone else out there is right where I'm at.

You'd mentioned honoring your self in your post to OTD.  You might enjoy this quote from Nathaniel Brandon.

"... .  to honor the self is to practice selfishness in the highest, noblest, least understood sense of the word... .  "

I know we all end up reading self help books to help us heal.  However, is like to recommend a fictional book that helped me a ton.  It's called 'the fountainhead' by any rand.

It's a very long book, but it presents that very philosophy of "principled selfishness"

I've bought and given that book away 4 times.  It is truly amazing if you have the patience to read it.

I find amazing power in clarity. I really appreciated how you view that. It reminds me of FOG.  That's an acronym in the swoe stuff for BPD's tactics, but it's also how I felt every night after work, and every weekend.  Like I just couldn't see anything clearly.

Now that I'm not exposed to the Fear, Obligation, Doubt tactics she used so frequently, I'm able to see and diagnose what's actually happening. And that is an amazing power I didn't even know I could have a few weeks ago.

Have you started a journal?  As the fog has lifted, I started have so many thoughts, ideas and questions that I couldn't keep track of them all.  So I started writing them down.

It's funny tho. I've just never been a 'journal person'. I thought they were kind I'd dumb if I'm being honest.  And yet here I am with 15 pages of diagrams I've made up along with random thought. 

[wishingwell17]

OTH: I'm happy for you and that you feel your path is the right one and it brought you to a place for healing FOO wounds, I am certain I have some work to do in this area with or about my sister. (one step at a time though  

Good for you.

Clearmind: I have less and less to say to him as each day passes and this does help my state of mind. I find in this moment I must work very hard to remind myself of what I value most, who I am and the importance of love, respect and trust in my life and relationships. 

I'm almost out of words for him except to say "take care of yourself and good bye". 

Distraught-m-in-mn: I do appreciate that quote, thank you. Oh my gosh, I have read so many self help books in the last two years. I started buying them as audiobooks to listen at the gym. I do not know if that is a very good thing   feels a little obsessive? I try to just laugh about it ( now)

And,  I have "the fountainhead" on my bookshelf. It was a book my mother had and made some inscriptions in... .  it is something I kept for myself after she passed. I think this is a sign I need to pick it up and begin. Thank you for the reminder. And, if you are able to be patient with my attempting to get through it, I'll let you know how I am enjoying it... .  in a month, or? It is a long one.

I have not been completely away from him for many days yet but I am almost surprised regarding how I feel too. I have experienced sadness and sorrow this last sunday, it felt paralyzing for a few hours. What is interesting to me is I have not been tempted in any way at all to contact or email him. I do not wish to see him, and I feel more like myself in the last few days than I have felt in a few years. I have never felt this way in the past during our breaks. I always very anxious and much more angry. I felt a need for him to hear me or be understood after his rages (I feel bad for my then self... .  it was not healthy to want anything after some the of the things he showed/did)  It feels much better this time, even if still very challenging. Clarity is beginning for me and I really look forward to how it will aid me in healing and discovery.

I do journal. I have for years. I am in a creative field and this is a skill I developed in college... .    I find journals very useful tools to express, but even more useful to look back and remind ourselves of feelings, thoughts, and solutions. The answers some times hide in the bursts of ideas/concepts and only reveal themselves when we go back through with a new perspective. yike - I guess I am a journal person?  I'm glad you have been pleasantly surprised with one!

[OTH]

Strong emotions die a hard death. Try to commit to yourself. Be true to you. Keep that thought up front.

Good luck, OTH