First post in staying (or improving) with great hesitancy.

[Hurt llama]

Hi all,

I started posting on this forum after luring around for a month or two. I didn't want to join as i didn't want to give energy to what I have been working on in one way or another for almost 6 years.

But after my exBPDgf ex fiancee visited me a couple of weeks ago (she lives a 3 hour plane ride away), many things got triggered as expected and while it was good to see her and all... .

I ended our engagement 3 years ago and we have always stayed in touch... . very close... . texting most days, video etc.

After finding this place, it was an incredible relief to learn all that I am feeling is not at all unusual... . The feelings of loss of identity, the addictive qualities, just so many things.

I would rate her BPD at about moderate... . She doesn't abuse drugs, never rages, but she does idealize, the usual painting white and black, etc.

I am convinced and i wish I wasn't that she does love me as much as I always loved her.

She and I have seen eachother 3-4 times since we broke up and each time has been during a time she was painting the other guy black... .

SHe has never swayed in her love for me... . Not one time... . and neither have I... . She does have her own brand of integrity... . no doubt... . I figured out finally she was BPD when I trusted her with a large sum of money in December (a years salary) in a business transaction that was ok for me but was really to help her out.

The way she handled it (and she had a bf during this that I was aware of), was far beyond my expectations... . She was flawless and it was not an easy transaction. It was all on a virtual handshake... . When it was over... . it got me thinking if I just tested her and I know I did... .

I used to think she was a Sociopath but it just never fit.

All of her actions in the past have only hurt her, not me... . That does not reduce what she did in the slightest but it's worth noting.

While she was here she was out at a business meeting... .   and i texted her and i heard her iPad in the other room... . I looked at it and saw that she was meeting someone she does business with but who also is a former lover... .   and noteworthy was her twin sisters bf years ago... . Her sister and this guy dated for a long time,, she got pregnant and he wanted the baby and she got an abortion without telling him. She's BPD as well.

My BPD, starts dating this guy (classy) and they have a short affair that ends when in bed he calls her by her sisters name... . she turned ice cold and ended it... . He reached out to her and wanted to meet for lunch and she showed up with a male friend... .

SO the idea that  she is meeting this guy, blew my mind and I packed up her things and went near where they were and left them at the nearest hotel.

I texted her what I had seen and told her I would pay for her hotel and and not strand her but she can't stay with me.

A couple of hours later, she is at my apartment and never got the texts.(confirmed).

I was ice cold to her but not yelling... . just cold and said she can't stay and sorry.

She asked if she could use the internet and I agreed... . i said stay a few hours and please... . I just can't get into this again.

She's not the type to beg forgiveness but she did manage to explain that she didnt want to upset me and it was pure business. I know she was telling the truth... . She has an almost eerie way of NOT lying... . she might lie by omission but she is rather harsly honest.

She wound up staying and it was ok... . but she drank a bit and when i took  her to my local haunt she said to my friend the bartender some joke about a menage e trois... .   It set me on high alert... . he didn't hear it or ignored her.

The last night here she was very sexual but i told her not right now but after dinner... .   we spoke about her ex bf, my first dates etc.

When I tried to make a move towards her she said, "Sorry, Im not in the mood. Not after hearing about all of your dates"

I said to her... . 'listen if you dont want to have sex that's fine but don't blame it on me! You were talking about your ex bf the guy you dumped me for ice cold in october via a text message!"

I got very mad, lost it for a minute, kicked a box and she left... .   I went down after and got into her taxi with her but it didn't end very well.

I had said to her the day i discovered the meetng she had that I had a date planned for next week and I just want her to know.

WHen she got home, we texted as usual... .   then suddenly she disappeared... . which is the universal sign of sleeping wtih her bf or who knows.

She reappears 18 hours later and send a picture of her dog and another dog... . I say... . "whose dog is that?" she responded... .   "I'm dating"

That triggered on of the worst anger and panic attacks I've had and I called her every name in the book... . I lost it... .   countless texts... . I was feeling so out of control.

And that's when I joined the site.

(deep breath here... .   heart is pounding literally)

end Part One

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Hurt llama]

after a few days we start texting and slowly she tells me that she was not on a date but was embarrassed that she went back to her bf and they have been fighting and broke up 4x in 10 months and this time he wanted her to move in and they had the final talk and she is 100% done.

(she 100% believes this and it might be true)

She said as she has always maintained that he is not her soulmate... . that it was always about me and she loved me and wanted to find a way to make it work.

For her to almost apologize is just about unheard of.

And it tugged on my heart and i started to let her in... .

I got involved with another business deal that fell through and am not in an uncomfortable position of just loaned her 3 months expenses... . I know for sure she will pay me and I saved her butt with this transaction that would have been good for me but there was a risk that it would fall through and it did... . UGH... . that's just all my fault... .  

So she is coming back to my city in less than two weeks... .

I have worked extremely hard in the past 5 years on trying to figure out what was wrong with me and i am at the tail end finally of really really getting all the dynamics... .

Reading on this forum has been eye opening to say the least.

I no longer tell her what i think is wrong with her... . she started explaining herself and her last relationship and i just listened and when she was done... . I said... .   Listen... .   you do realize that in many ways what happened with him and how you slept wtih me after each time 'breaking up' is not something that is umm anything less than ridiculous"

I said it almost laughing and it was the first time she actually responded not defending or blaming me... .   she said she gets it... . that she is overwhelmed with anxiety... . doesnt have a job and can't handle more than she is handling now.

And in the next few days I have learned more and more about BPD and am very anxious... .

I have nightmares about her... .   that she is cheating... .   i had one the first morning that she slept here and was awakened by her iPad and the text from the former lover! THat set me off in the worst anxiety.

I am really feeling ill right now... .   I have lent her money... . i am entwined with her and I am afraid of going through all this again.

I had my perfect chance to walk... . I had a chance to feel justice... .   she came here, I called her out... . she went back home and INTENTIONALLY messed with my head... .   It's the atom bomb of weapons and she set it off!

I am sorry for this ridiculously long post. I dont expect anyone to make it through it... . but I am anxious and not even sure what I want to do.

I will add that I am a middle aged man, have an outstanding life, great relationships with my kids, my ex, lots of friends, interests and work only when I want and if I want... . It's about the best life and I feel i am seriously blowing it.

I'll post some more later and maybe pull it together to ask for tips in how to communicate with her.

Oh, last thing... .   and the reason I am posting.

She just sent me a link that she is going to rent her apartment on a daily basis on one of those websites that supports that.

It makes me extremely uncomfortable and I wanted to post here first but I emailed her back that it makes me uncomfortable and that I do have some lingering PTSD from all of our history.

THank you for reading any of this long rant.

[Hurt llama]

Sorry to add a little (yeah right) more.

I have a date (sleep over ) tomorrow night with a beautiful sexy woman I had dated a few times in the past... . I am on dating sites, I easily find lots of women and yet I have wasted so much energy time and money with my ex.

I want to stop the madness... . I know i am close... . I know i am smart enough that I can daydream and even see her but I can't do this alone and i am not the most mellow guy who can absorb body blows without getting very upset.

I am a nice, generous, friendly, outgoing person and I don't know if I want to go though any more pain.

Right now as I am writing this she seems to have disappeared after I emailed her that I did not like the idea she wiull rent her apt by the day to strangers.

She knows this will bother me... .   We had a argument about this in October and she used that argument about this and some other ridiculousness as the basis for not moving forward and going back to her bf.

Maybe she is sending me this information to test me again... .   to state that she will do as she needs and its a passive aggressive way of asking if I will help her financially without directly saying it.

If this is what it seems to be... . this might be the final swan song... . (again)

And yeah... .   without my 'loan' she would be in serious trouble... . she told me that if i didn't do that she would be hiding under the bed... . WHen I am calm and centered I get her completely but the key question is what about ME?

[yeeter]

Welcome llama


A long history, thanks for sharing your story.

The key question is, what about YOU?

Nobody wants to go through pain, and you will need to decide if you want to stay in the relationship, realizing the limitations.  Or cut your losses and move onto something you feel might b more satisfying overall.

The push pull dynamic is normal.

What do you get out of the relationship?  What do you want out of it? Is what you want, possible/probable?  What are the minimal acceptable components?

Just some things to consider ... .  

[Hurt llama]

I will post the last email i sent and her response... . what appears to be going on is that she wants my input into something she knows how I feel... .   last time she mentioned renting the place out and i told her my thoughts... . she told me that her bf offered to help her but she would never accept and is not asking me... .   Then she said he convinced her to go back and sorry... .   "no easy way to say it but I am back with X"

==

My Response:

sweetie….try…

really try... . to put yourself in my shoes…try hard

last time you asked me of this i told you my thoughts... . your response was to tell me about how X was going to pay for some stuff…

and then you dumped me…

You can't possibly think I am going to be happy to hear that miscellaneous people including men can rent your place out with you in it.

and it's not about goodbye... . you were the one who said that to me…am i mistaken.

also you don't and didn't react to one word i said in my texts about my own problems…hello?

am i allowed to have my feelings or just you?

I sent this in response to her email about her apartment

Not sure what to say…

You know what you are doing I am sure.

to be honest, it creeps me out and makes me uncomfortable in a pretty deep way... . that's not judging you... .

i'm struggling a bit with what i have told you is some PTSD issues I have and am dealing with about certain things.

i have trouble hearing about this and you don't need for me to be negative but as said…it makes me very uneasy to say the least.

good luck with new job interview. i hope that works best for you!

=====

Her response:

I'm reading a good bye (yet again!) in your email. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm actually fortunate to have a rentable apt. I rather not but until I have steady  income security it's the fiscally responsible thing to do.

Sorry it makes you feel uncomfortable. It certainly wasn't my intention. I was excited about it and wanted your input

On the wording.

===

My Response

sweetie….try…

really try... . to put yourself in my shoes…try hard

last time you asked me of this i told you my thoughts... . your response was to tell me about how oscar was going to pay for some stuff…

and then you dumped me…

You can't possibly think I am going to be happy to hear that miscellaneous people including men can rent your place out with you in it.

and it's not about goodbye... . you were the one who said that to me…am i mistaken.

also you don't and didn't react to one word i said in my texts about my own problems…hello?

am i allowed to have my feelings or just you?

[Hurt llama]

Welcome llama


A long history, thanks for sharing your story.

The key question is, what about YOU?

Nobody wants to go through pain, and you will need to decide if you want to stay in the relationship, realizing the limitations.  Or cut your losses and move onto something you feel might b more satisfying overall.

The push pull dynamic is normal.

What do you get out of the relationship?  What do you want out of it? Is what you want, possible/probable?  What are the minimal acceptable components?

Just some things to consider ... .  

thank you for the post.

We get along great other than the push pull craziness (that sounds absurd). she is sweet, loyal (in her way) and caring always about me... .   but of course that's flawed as clearly my feelings and all dont seem to matter... .  

What do I want? I wanted to marry this woman... . What I want may not be and probably is not possible... .   Obviously... .   I wanted my soulmate the woman I love and to feel safe and to be the best man I could be.

I am just starting to access the damage this relationship has had on me... .   Therapy after a point was pointless. I know myself inside and out... . I know my demons that we all have... .

I don't think it's possible to be with her as she is BPD and even if she started working on that directly (her idiot therapist said ... . "what are his credentials to make that diagnosis"

If I had a wish? It would be to move on and not feel the pull and to get my life back... . I am determined to have a great life... . there is not a force on this world that will stop me... . except myself.


PS:

Here's her most recent response... .  

Whoa. Ur right and I forgot. I'm sorry. It was insensitive of me.

I just wanted to share with you what I was doing. Spent the day cleaning.

So you forgive me?

[Hurt llama]

and lastly... .  

Her Response:

It's insensitive not passive aggressive at all. I would know! Today has been difficult. I'm mentally preparing mentally for a what might be a challenging family reunion. I have been responding to your texts as I see them.

You need to take care of yoursel. I'll be in X next week and would love to share time with you, if that feels good for you.

I love you.

[Hurt llama]

I'm sorry this thread has just really been for me to vent and document for later use and I suppose to get it out ... .

I have a date planned with a woman I have a causal relationship and yet a really wonderful time... . Exact opposite personality... .   and for those interesting in astrology... . born the same day (different year)... . oddly my ex is literally my opposite sign!

She's doing her best i suppose but I never was the guy who would even slightly tolerate a woman using sex as a weapon or at the very least able to have sex the day before she's with me with someone else and or the day after... . She has done this habitually and I won't go into detail as I can't afford the spike in blood pressure right now!

I'm exhausted and have to just remind myself that I am really in the drivers seat... . I have treated her very well and in spite of it all have been there for her just about always and in as healthy a way as I can... .

When she met this ex bf, she was delighted to share it wiht me and it was annoying but at the end of the day... .   it's not as if I believe she can make it with anyone as I know she can't. Not yet anyway... .   and I do remember her texting her joy about it (and yet acknowledging it's not even close to what we had) as I was in the hospital getting tests on my heart and reading her wax on aobut this guy who turned out to be a bombastic bad tempered guy who sorta reminded her of me! haha

I'm in control here. Right?

[Hurt llama]

Well, I guess I got what I wanted.

Posting in the 'staying' area, even though I wasn't necessarily 'staying', was a way for me to just unload or recap the key problems and figure out what I want and how can I get it.

I sent her an email that recapped how it's felt from my perspective knowing she, while not being 'promiscuous' in the classic sense with many partners, has shown since the beginning the clear pattern of bedding me, and another and then me within a very short times span... . (a day) and that although the clear message from her has always been consistant she would rather be with me as we are 'soulmates' (she means that as I do), she has her way and that just seems to be that.

her response to my last email was simply this:

"I know you'll understand if I don't call you when I'm in X next week. Keep doing what's right for you X, and I'll do the same. "

===

That's her message always, she didn't address anything i said from a heart level (of course as it's to painful and I know she is not comfortable with what she does at all). But while I suppose I do understand it's to painful for her, this kind of rather cool and "normal' response, says to me that she can't or won't address the facts raised. She doesn't have the words, even if I do believe she in her deepest place does agree (sort of) that her behaviour is not really good for her or for us.

Part of me respects that she is not 'breaking' and I think after these long post fests I had yesterday, I have managed once again to reset the relationship, gain control and not feel as if I don't have a choice.

If the past is any indication of the future... . this will very soon be the time that i start to feel anxiety and missing her and in the past I would start the texting (or she would) any by the time I see her we will be missing eachother, that familiar love and connection and during that time either of us can be triggered.

And at the core, especially after laying all of it out, I may have just made her see me as impossible and she might be that much closer to being ready to have the next guy become part of an almost 'back up plan'.

IN other words at the end of the day, well... .   I think she is pathological and that to really be with her in a committed relationship for me she would do in a heartbeat but it would require me to be the one constantly 'walking on eggshells'. I don't think I can or want to put myself at risk to go through another bout of the same old thing.

It's all tied to trigger points for both of us and while I actually do trust her in most ways, I trust more that she can cheat with out ever cheating... .   easily

Which is close to what I am actually doing with her by bringing all of this up yesterday and today, while all the while having plans to sleep with a woman I have dated in  the past.

I think I am doing this intentionally to make myself feel that if she can do it , so can i.

But it is a bit more than that, as I am consciously trying to be open to other woman and while I wish it were possible wtih my ex, I just don't know if i have anymore 'juice' to do this.

But I aways seem to and that's the scary part.

[yeeter]

I think I am doing this intentionally to make myself feel that if she can do it , so can i.

To point out the obvious... .   this isnt a great reason to sleep with someone.

I would recommend you get the relationship with your gf cleaned up - one way or another - before bringing another party into it.

[briefcase]

Hi Hurt llama,

I'm sorry you are going through all this.   

I might have missed something, but I am a little unclear about your goals for this relationship.  Do you want to get back together with her? 

At very least, it sounds like you are still very much attached to her and still have strong feelings.  The drama of her comings and goings, the loans, the constant contact/texting . . . .

What do you want?

[Hurt llama]

I think I am doing this intentionally to make myself feel that if she can do it , so can i.

To point out the obvious... .   this isnt a great reason to sleep with someone.

I would recommend you get the relationship with your gf cleaned up - one way or another - before bringing another party into it.

No no no, sorry if I was not clear... .   I do NOT have a gf! This woman is someone I have a cool and casual relationship with for two years... .   we rarely see each other and she was away in another country for a long time for work... .

But she just returned home and we have been trying to set up a time to see each other again.

[Hurt llama]

Hi Hurt llama,

I'm sorry you are going through all this.   

I might have missed something, but I am a little unclear about your goals for this relationship.  Do you want to get back together with her? 

At very least, it sounds like you are still very much attached to her and still have strong feelings.  The drama of her comings and goings, the loans, the constant contact/texting . . . .

What do you want?

Good question.

After a couple of years after me ending the engagement I finally took the chance to see her and I think I outlined the story and won't do it again for all of our sakes. : >

But after that I am just so afraid I am going to get hurt yet again and I don't think it is reasonable to take a chance with her unless she is actively working on how to take responsibiity for her part of the equation. I do accept that she is doing all she can in her life and I do respect it but it's not my place of course to be pushing so hard and telling her what her problems are... . i have avoided that most of the time we have been together.

In a perfect world I would be with her forever. I love her and she does love me. It's powerful and I do trust it's real... . I have the ability to look within and take responsibility for my own issues which I believe I am well aware of... .

I don't know if it is realistic to think it could ever work out due to her BPD and the fact she might deep down know she has it but it's forbidden territory which I understand and rather not be diagnosing her... . I backed into finally figuring it out.

SO I said what I want in a perfect world... . that would be with her together.

In the real world... .   not sure it's possible... . and certainly not unless we BOTH learn the tools to use to reduce the conflict... . I actually do see a glimmer of hope as I do see her as a good person... . Not extreme really at all to me at least... .   she needs to be understood... . and I actually am getting it... .   but i need to exist here too... .

I know i am posting a lot and it is ranting but at my core... .   I am confident... . and I know I will be ok no matter what.

This is the end of something big... .   and the beginning as well... . it will be a new way I approach my life and relationships either way this goes... . one that finally and eventually puts this past stuff to rest.

thank you both for the posts. very appreciated

[Hurt llama]

I think I am doing this intentionally to make myself feel that if she can do it , so can i.

To point out the obvious... .   this isnt a great reason to sleep with someone.

I would recommend you get the relationship with your gf cleaned up - one way or another - before bringing another party into it.

Just re read your post and I got confused too... .   My exBPD fiancee is NOT my gf... . she was in another relationship that I thought ended by by no means do either of us consider ourselves together... . she wants that very much but as posted... . I have a lot of things to think about if I even can do it.

The other woman I mentioned was also never a gf. she was someone I have gone out casually with who is a sweat heart but she travels overseas and has two young children and not really sure what she wants... . She's just super cool and we keep in touch and wanted to re connect and this is nothing to do with my ex BPD... .   It's just that I had this sense of almost misplaced loyalty to my ex as after being intimate with her I didn't feel I should be with the other woman so fast... .   Yet my ex immediately had sex with her exbf and made sure i know by the usual sudden disappearance which sets me off in a very bad way.

sorry to go on about it... .

[Hurt llama]

Gonna close this thread out... . sorry for the long on and on meandering ranting... .

The turmoil is actually past and I have the best peace I could have considering... .

I will make a new thread to answer the question that has been asked of me more than a few times here.

"What do you want""

I know what I want... .   and to be continued

thank you for anybody who managed to read all this lunacy and... .  


sorry... .   :'(