Hos holiday with ex & how to confront

[yeeter]

+1 on taking the high road, and avoiding tit for tat games.  

You gave a lot of thout to your boundaries.  Rational and reasonable.  You decided what you would do if he decided to go on this trip.

Yes it's still tough emotional times.  Confusion.  Second guesses.  Basically still looking for any little thing that will allow you to rationalize NOT following through with your own boundaries.  I've been there for sure.  

But NOT following through.  NOT honoring your own boundary and your own self, will simply reinforce the status quo.  That he can do anything he wants and you will still be there.


of course it's not at all what you wanted, nor what you expected for your future together.  But you know now what the relationship will be... .     Which is better finding out now instead of another 2... .   5... .   10 years from now.  By enforcing the boundary you go forward in the relationship ONLY if it's a healthy one.  If not, you go forward in an unhealthy dynamic which you allowed, and thus is likely to repeat many times over.

Hugs  

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[connect]

Hello,

Thanks Yeeter - just what I needed to hear today. It is true - my head knows its true, I am just waiting for my heart to catch up.

I need to vent now guys... .  

I f*ed up big time last night. He has now got what he wanted and what I was trying so hard to avert.

I gave him and myself space yesterday and went out for 9 hours. I came back and I tried to be normal but I just couldnt do it. The holiday is in four days time. I ended up crying my heart out in front of him. We went to bed really really late (a trigger in itself for him) He cuddled me and looked after me and said we would get through this.

However this morning he was awakened by a call from his mother - a sudden awakening triggers a very bad mood for him. I said "please dont see her today we agreed I would take you out somewhere" (country walk and nice lunch) He took that call and I could hear her say that she knew he was in a bad way at the moment and she wanted to help him. He then said "so you want me to come over to see you today on my own? Ok I will do that" that was just for me to hear as that wasn't coming from her. He almost started raging at her and then hung up and started on me.

He said that I have to sort out my trust issues and that he cant stand that I wont let him talk to other women and its too much for him to cope with. I said I do trust him not to sleep with her on the holiday but I dont trust him to do the right thing by me. (by the way here I should mention something I am ashamed of and hence why I havent posted about it before - when he went on the stag do recently directly after our first row about his holiday - I discovered that he had taken condoms with him on the trip. The box was still unopened on his return , he said he took them out of anger and as he didnt use them then it wasnt so bad as I thought, god I am ashamed I let this go -I havent told anyone about this as I know what people will say, but I did let it go, denial, I nearly left him but I did let it go eventually. So yes I suppose I do have trust issues)

He said that he needs space and he will stay at his mothers tonight and he doesnt want to talk until I can talk to him normaly and not have a go at him all the time - this isnt true btw as I dont do this) He says that I am unreasonable and at the moment I am being even more unreasonable. He said he wants our r/s to work but we are making each other ill with this - he is worried about his own mental health and he cant deal with feeling so bad about himself and he can feel himself going into lock down. (He has only recently taken himself off anti-depressents against my advice) He looked and sounded pretty crazy, wild eyed, muttering and repeating phrases over again. I am really worried about him too actually.

He hugged me and said he was sorry that he had arranged this holiday and he knows it is wrong and he is so bad for doing it. But he cant cope.

I talked normally to him to keep him calm and gathered some of my things for tomorrow as I said I will stay at my friends tonight. As is usual with BPD I have no idea of how long this space is required for. I imagine until his return from the holiday. I am under no illusions as to what everyone thinks I should do which is run for the hills. Its heartbreaking - I love him - but he creates drama and impossible situations, pushes people away, triangulates and he wont allow himself to be loved.

He got what he wanted. Distance from me. Me out of his house. A row. Him in victim role. Me as persecuter. Mummy to tell him what a witch I am for upsetting her son.

I wanted to keep things calm so that when he was on the trip he would realise he had left his girlfriend at home and he was ACTUALLY on HOLIDAY with ANOTHER WOMAN. I wanted him to feel this. I wanted it to hit him in the face that HE was responsible for the situation HE was in. I thought it might be a break through of some kind (coming back from the holday early, inviting me to join him there, finally seeing he had a problem etc)

I have posted here before about how I KNEW he was trying to distance me before the holiday so that he wouldnt feel guilty about it. He wants to go away on a row or, as friends, or with distance or with me being "unreasonable" to justify it to himself so he doesnt have to look in the mirror and see its all his own doing. Or have to take responsibility.

I know what I have done wrong here if I wanted him to stick around before the trip (so that he would face things whilst ON the trip - last chance scenario for me). I should not be still talking to him about the holiday. I should have had some distance. I should have remained calmer. But I couldnt do it. I am upset. I am angry. He is behaving badly. He has hurt me. He tells me what he is doing as a bad thing but he keeps doing it. He blames me. I just cracked.

I just wanted him to go away KNOWING it was wrong. GETTING it. FEELING how inappropriate it is. Not him going away blaming me and justifying it. I have given that to him on a plate by losing it. He will never see that now. History is being re-written right now to him needing this holiday because I am such a jealous, unreasonable shrew. I can see it happening.

If he got that feeling then maybe we could have a chance at saving the r/s. If he could see he needed to look at himself.

Its the unfairness that is really getting me. I am being pushed out and blamed for his mistake. Its so unfair. So unfair.

[arabella]

Oh, connect... .    

You did not screw anything up. You did not set up this 'ideal' for him. And you can't expect yourself to follow a script! All those things he's accusing you of being? Unreasonable, etc? Projection! Don't listen to that crap. As much as I know you wanted to have some control over the outcome (don't we all?) the fact is you really don't. Nothing you did/didn't do was going to be the magic bullet, because it's not you - it's him.

I know exactly what you were trying to do. I see the rationale behind it and the hope stemming from it. But, to be honest with you, I don't think it would ever have worked anyway. Why? Because he would have just twisted THAT in order to make himself feel better, in order to still be the victim. I think I mentioned before that you might have to actually leave before he would comprehend that you actually meant it? That's what would have happened - you'd act perfectly according to your script, all calm and loving and firm, he would go on his vacation and put you out of his messed up mind so that he wouldn't have to deal with himself, and then he'd come back and blame you for not being 'more clear' or 'not telling him how you really felt' or 'not showing him how serious it was 'cause you were acting so calm'. Seriously. You can not win with a person playing these kinds of BPD mind games.

Now I have a question for you: why are you being so hard on yourself re the condom box incident? He gave you an explanation that, given his issues, actually sort of makes sense (can you tell I've spent too much time with a pwBPD ?) and so you decided to pick your battles. Sure, you could maybe have tried making more of a point about appropriate anger responses, etc. but do you really think that would have made a difference? And were you really going to break up with him over an unopened box? No and no. So it's over and done with. And you have another clue as to how his mind operates - he obviously realizes that infidelity, or the threat of it, will hurt you (otherwise why take condoms "out of anger"?) He is taunting you with your "trust issues" (which sounds perfectly legitimate to me) - GAS LIGHTING. So he knows what this vacation means too. De-nial = not just a river in Egypt.

I do agree with you on at least one thing - it is 100% unfair. It is also NOT YOUR FAULT. You know, I often wish it WERE my fault with my dBPDh - then I could at least change it.

[GaGrl]

... .   I wanted to keep things calm so that when he was on the trip he would realise he had left his girlfriend at home and he was ACTUALLY on HOLIDAY with ANOTHER WOMAN. I wanted him to feel this. I wanted it to hit him in the face that HE was responsible for the situation HE was in. I thought it might be a break through of some kind (coming back from the holday early, inviting me to join him there, finally seeing he had a problem etc)... .  


... .   I just wanted him to go away KNOWING it was wrong. GETTING it. FEELING how inappropriate it is. Not him going away blaming me and justifying it... .  

... .   If he got that feeling then maybe we could have a chance at saving the r/s. If he could see he needed to look at himself... .  

You are projecting on to him your own cognitive ability to process logic and rational thought.  He cannot do this.

My DH spent many, many years dealing with his former wife's infidelities.  It never stopped, from 15 months into the marriage.  At one point, during yet another discussion of her behavior, she was finally honest enough to say,

"I know it's wrong, and I know it hurts you.  But it's what I want to do, so I'm going to do it."

[connect]

Thanks Gagrl and arabella   - will answer properly in a while 

God I am now worried sick about the state he was in. Very worried. Don't know what to do.

[arabella]

God I am now worried sick about the state he was in. Very worried. Don't know what to do.

What exactly is the worry? Is there something you're afraid he'll do/not do?

[patientandclear]

Connect, I completely agree with Arabella.  You did not do anything wrong here, even accepting that you wanted to maximize the chances he would have an "aha!" moment.

I think if you had remained strong, loving and firm & then he left, while he was gone, he would have felt triumphant that he pulled this off, that you had seen the light, gotten over your trust issues  , blah blah blah, and allowed this without blowing a gasket.  Then he returns & you have no choice according to your own boundary definition but to leave.  Not at all sure why you thought he would engage with this subtle ethical wrestling-with-self just because you were still acting like you were not going to fall apart over this.

If he was going to have an aha! moment I would think what happened in the past 24 hours would be more likely to cause it.  He is dysregulated now it sounds like because you have pushed the contradiction button.  He says he knows it is wrong, he says he wants you to allow it anyway.  Well, there it is, staring him in the face.  All set up to prompt his aha! moment.  He probably won't have it because BPD precludes aha! moments -- it's easier to put the blame for how this goes on you & he has much more experience doing that, rather than looking within.

But if he were going to be an exception, I think you've set that up as well this way as any.

[briefcase]

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