Whole heap of trouble. Baby on the way. Separated by thousands of miles

[TheseDays]

Hi all,

It was suggested I move my post from the introduction to here. I've copied and pasted it. Thanks a MILLION!


Hi all,

I hope everyone is having a wonderful day. I guess the only way to start is from the beginning. I won't be long (and please tell me if I violate any rules, I really don't want to do that and I apologize too if I get ramble-y or confusing). I've read a lot about BPD and in fact, it was a post from this site that really made everything clear to me, and I really need some advice or help or something or anything. I'm at such a loss... .   if anything is confusing, ask me for clarity. I really appreciate any time spent trying to make sense of all this, right now I'm just kind of spilling.

Last August, I met a woman on a dating site. She was from another country, but she sounded so great and I wanted to tell her so. I did, and shortly after, we started exchanging messages, then emails. By September, I had already booked a flight to her country. She said she was married but had filed for divorce and that it was in process. No problem, i thought. Her facebook had said "married", which she explained as not wanting to anger her "ex" who she had told me was emotionally and physically abusive.

She has a daughter who just turned 15. I had talked with her daughter on the phone sometimes, and texted, despite the language barrier (her English isn't great) while we were courting. During this courtship, we had mostly very big "ups". It was magical and it was wonderful.

I went to her country (Chile) on December 27 last year. I had left my job (she had said she'd be able to support me until i found something, i know, dumb dumb dumb especially in this economy), but that yes, we were going to start a new life in Santiago. She lives in a small town about 2 hours away, in her husband's house. She had said before I came that she was moving out, to her dad's house in Santiago, and honestly, a lot of her stuff WAS there. I had booked a hotel in Santiago where I was to stay until we found a place to rent together, which was the plan.

Long story short, nobody would rent to me without a social security number (which you can get with a job there) and her credit was so bad that nobody would rent in her name, either. I had plenty of money and offered six months rent to everyone in lump sum. Nobody took the offer.

In the meantime, like in October, she had changed her daughter's school from one in the small town to one in Santiago, that she was to begin in the next session (it was summer vacation in Chile). I went with her to the school to talk with the principal, just to get a feel for our goals for her daughter. I was proud to have helped her choose it, it was like our first big parenting project, and I loved the fact that she would represent me to the school officials as her daughter's legal guardian. It felt wonderful.

When nobody would rent to us and her father didn't let me stay at his house (I had slept there two nights while he was gone), we decided maybe we should do it here, in the States. She thought it was a great idea, that she wanted to be in a loving family (I had to move back in with my parents because I had also ended the lease on my apartment), a big happy family. I had asked her to marry me and she said yes and we were in heaven.

Babies. I fit so well the non-BP archetype. Sometime during our pre-meeting courtship, she had said she wanted another baby, maybe two, and that she never thought of it before she met me, because I was the best man in the world. I cried when she told me that. I was so moved. I have no children because I thought that was never going to be an option for me.

We made plenty of love together. Unprotected. She had said she was on the pill. I left Chile on January 25 to try to get my old job back (which I could not) and also like I said, so we could build a life here. Plenty of nights, in fact most, I was alone. She'd either be at her dad's or at the house in the small town. She had said her ex was on vacation. (She would tell me later that this was true "for some of the time".

After I left, she had the choice to stay with her dad or go back to her ex's house (who she said was gone the whole time we courted, who for some reason was coming back now. Her best friend said he was gone during our courting too, but i know my gf lies to her too, so I dont know). She chose to go back. Her daughter did not want to go back. She wanted to stay in Santiago and go to the school we had chosen. She didn't want *me* to leave, either. She begged me "no baya, no baya" in person and via text. No baya. Don't go. That's the most painful thing I've ever had to do, to leave her. My gf said that going back to the ex house was a hell she could better deal with than her dad's.

So now she's pregnant. Or so I think. I don't know if the child is mine. Her best friend was with her during her clearblue test. I know some of her friends, and I met her family (her dad, her brothers, her aunts and uncles). Just putting that out there. Anyway, she went to the doctor for a due date. October 11.

The night before the due date test, I got a little paranoid. Her best friend said her husband doesn't know about me, my girlfriend says he does. I confronted her about that, wanting to know which is true. She said "He knows but doesn't take us seriously, which it isn't my job to do". That hurt me. The next morning I asked if she would please finally change the relationship status on Facebook. I wanted to be taken seriously. I wanted to tell the world about being a dad, too, the dad of our baby that we had dreamt of, that meant so much to us.

When she denied the relationship request, I snapped in a typical non-way and said "Why am i so terrible?" It made me feel like dirt.

Her due date appointment was about 1, and I still wanted to be there. I had texted, I'm with you, please tell me how it goes. No answer. Time went by, i figured she was done. I asked how it went, and she said "Im upset right now, i'll talk with you later". Later came, and it was an i'm dumping you text. She said she had decided to stop hurting me. I said "What about the baby?" and she replied that she'd let me know when she figured it out.

Meanwhile, my mom had been exchanging emails with her a bit. My girlfriend said "He's a great guy, and I hope he finds a woman with fewer troubles. Maybe we'll meet in a next life." My mom being my mom, said "You dont have to do this alone, we're here for you, please come" and so forth. Finally, she replies, "I cant abort and i dont want to give up the baby, maybe i'll beg for my ex for him to get back with me and just rot in this hell i created even if it means i have to have black eyes for the rest of my life". My mom then pleaded, begged her to come, even if she weren't with me, to come and have a loving support network for the baby and for her daughter.

The next day, I asked her, thinking we were broken up, if we could chat about money. I knew it was tight for her and I want our baby to be ok. She EXPLODED. (this was all on text). You're not a man. You're a boy. You left me alone (she always said she had a lonely pregnancy. Her husband is not the father of her daughter--she had her when she was 20, unmarried, and that her daughter's birth father never wanted anythning to do with her. Incidentally, neither does her current husband. I guess by pressing her about wanting to be visible, finally questioning things, I had hurt her). You are a monster. You're as bad as my ex, just you didn't hit me. Youre never going to see the baby. You're just a sperm donor.

"I needed you. I still need you." ?

This was maybe 4 or 5 days ago. The past few days have been hell. We finally reconciled to a point. She said she loves me, she needs me, she wants me in all ways possible, could I record a message to put on her belly for the baby to hear. And I did that. Since then, she's practically been avoiding me non-stop. I don't press her now. I didn't really before, but especially now because last night... .  

"I love you. You know that. I just don't understand how you can love me""

"Why wouldn't I?"

"Because I have troubles, I'm weird, I have bad moods, I'm mind-___ed. I'm not a monster physically but I suck"

I told her I wasn't full of crap when i asked her to marry me, that she was beautiful and I was proud of her for being who she is. And she said ""You're not full of crap, you're full of beautiful things"

The situation is now, she said she would come on a student visa in june. That can't happen, they'd know there was an intent to emigrate, which is a big no-no. I could bring her on a fiancee visa, but she has to be divorced first, which I am now disbelieving she ever had filed. I would come back to Chile, but she is not telling anyone other than her best friend about the pregnancy. Nobody can help us, then. And she's refusing to look for any. She's afraid to tell her dad or anyone else.

Now she's living in a house, trying to conceal her pregnancy from her husband or ex or whomever he is, while keeping all this secret, while saying that now her daughter doesn't want to come to the States, also that she doesn't want to go to a different school in Santiago (which she did, she begged us not to take her back to her old one, for reasons she didn't say). And avoiding me most of the days. Not doing anything to make this happen, though she says she loves me and it's her dream and goal to be with me and raise our family and our baby together. I'm so confused and worried. She's had suicidal thoughts articulated to me before, and I'm worried that if it's true this guy she's living with is abusive, well, finding out she's pregnant with another man's child might be something to trigger him.

And it's awful because she can just disappear because she's so far. I don't want her to be in danger, even if we can't make our relationship work, I don't want our baby in danger. Or her, or her daughter.

So that's it, everyone, at least the best I can explain it right now. I'm so terrified. This is consuming me and my family.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[whereisthezen]

  Thesedays!

First thing is welcome to the boards, you'll get good advice to help understand different parts of whats going on from some great people. Be patient they will reply

First, take a deep breath. Here's more 

Second, I'm sorry for the situation and the anxiety you must have.

Third, we are all struggling, I guess were all in it together in many ways. So lean on your family, the boards, your friends whenever YOU need it, even more   

I think you have a great family to stand by you, her, her child and your baby. That is amazing. So definitely stick by your family in the hard times as they seem strong and as objective as ever.

If you havent slept, sleep. Takecare of you. Your nerves must be on edge and if time difference you're probably not sleeping with all of this.

Advice: eat, sleep, talk, trust your loved ones. You can figure out the legal rights you have from the Embassy in Chile or if she accepts have her come to your country. Either way you'll know soon and anything unknown talk to a therapist on now. This isnt a small thing. This is your possible wife with daughter and new baby.

Take care of you. Keep talking & rest soon.

[TheseDays]

Thanks a lot. And you're right, I'm not sleeping. I just had a major panic attack. I just couldn't stop homina-homina-homina-ing and collapsed on the floor.

She sent me pictures of her baby bump. She asked if I showed my mom. Then she didn't answer me when I said a million kisses for the bump and for the baby. I'm dying.

[TheseDays]

She's been avoiding me left and right. I just tried to call her (this isn't a time I would normally call) and she said "Hello?" and I said "Hello!". A few seconds silence then she hung up on me.

[briefcase]

 

Wow, that's quite a lot on your plate.  And I'm sorry you are going through this.  It's understandable that you feel terrified.  I know what you mean by feeling "consumed" by this too.

There are some pretty big obstacles getting in the way of this relationship. First, she's married to someone else.  Its unclear if she's really leaving her marriage.  She lives in a different country.  And she's avoiding most contact with you. 

It's helpful sometimes to keep in mind what you do and don't have control over.  First, you really can't control her or her actions.  Sometimes it can be hard to accept that we don't have control over things we want - her to get a divorce, her to live with you, her to take your calls, etc. 

You do have control over your actions.  You can make sure the interactions you do have with her are positive and healthy (see the Staying Tools for ideas) and you can empower yourself by learning your legal rights with respect to this baby. 

Some of this might just take some time to sort out too.  Be patient.  Don't over pursue her, but be solid and available to her when she needs you - and she will need you.   

[TheseDays]

Thanks, Briefcase

It's so difficult to control, and I appreciate your empathy. I'm not a control freak, but I've been freaked out from this *complete* lack of control, especially given the fact that I don't trust anything she says anymore. I can't.

Today, I will talk with her best friend, i think I alluded to her as being witness to her home pregnancy test. I know it was probably a mistake but I mentioned to her that a large part of my concern stems from thinking she has BPD. She said she agreed and that she didn't think I was being mean or insulting to say so. I hope she can provide some clarity.

Thanks again, so very much!

[waitaminute]

Thesedays,

Wow! It must be very difficult for you.

Minus her marriage and pregnancy, I can really relate to you hearing and reading her crushing BPD-like responses. My ex lived across the Atlantic from me. Getting texts in ambiguous English that leaves you wondering "did she just spit in my eye or tell me that she loves me" is a bizarre experience. So is writing a nice message only to find that she translated it with sarcasm and even negative connotations. I write simply now in English and try really hard to learn her language for whatever remains of our friendship... .   More of an "aquaintence-ship" now.

The marriage, pregnancy, and distance complications could be in a story about a man and woman here in the states. You got some tough road ahead. But it sounds like you have a support structure (your mom sounds super. Give her a hug!). So you will get through this.

Dealing with the added complication of BPD symptoms is where you can most benefit here. Learn about communication. Learn about how to respond emotionally to the horrible things she will say. Learn how BPDs behave so that you can try to figure out fact from fiction. There is good support here for that.

The rest of the pain and agony and decisions that relate to love, her marriage, the pregnancy, distance... .   I guess you're gonna face some tests of judgement, discernment,  and character. A therapist or even a spiritual guide might be able to help you get through this very very difficult time.

Keep writing. It will help you sort out your own thoughts.

Prayers and hope to you, brother.

[TheseDays]

Thanks, waitaminute,

I have been off the board for a long time, and a lot has changed. It's just as awful, if not more so... .

I am sorry that you went through the ambiguity of such a relationship yourself. It's that ambiguity that kills you and you wonder what reality is. Crazy-making behavior. It's awful, and I am hoping to learn how to help myself, too. I have to admit, at this point, I'm down. I just chain-smoke and drink coffee and learn about BPD all day. Getting a job again would really be helpful, but this economy... . yikes.

Thanks for the support and the time to reply. I am going to post an update to the drama (my head spins... . ),

My mom is super indeed, btw

[TheseDays]

UPDATE:

Since I posted this originally. a lot has changed. A lot. Sorry if it's confusing and hard to follow. This is about a six-week summary. It's a long story, but I hope entertaining... .  

Every day, she'd complain about puking, about back pains, etc. I was worried. And she was awful. Her concerns seemed mostly about how unfair life is, how much she hated the world, all these things. It's been a whirlwind, so I apologize if anything is unclear. She'd send me awful pictures on occasion (never of the baby bump--which I never saw unclothed), just looking either sour or despondent. Once when she did this, I asked her to send me a picture of her smiling. She responded to that by sending a horrendous-looking picture with her head tilted to the side and an orange peel in her mouth. She really looked dead.

I'd ask her about her appointments, wanting to  know when they would be so I could be available for emotional support, whatever she wanted. She stopped replying to me in any consistent way. The baby's heartbeat was low, but stable. She had a series of appointments, etc. Once, I asked her if the doctor gave the number for the baby's heart-rate. "Hmm, nope", she said.

In the midst of all this, she tells me "I've always been alone. I just wanted to be loved and accepted.  That was a big mistake". I told her she has that. "It's deeper than that. It's a personality disorder" (!). Then she says ":)isorder or not, I've always been alone."

A few weeks ago, maybe three, her daughter texts me and asks me if I know that her mom is pregnant. I show this to her mom's friend (the one who was there during the pregnancy test--but, i dont think I mentioned this in the initial post, my gf, i'll call her that for now, just for ease of terminology, had told me she had taken an earlier negative test, which she didn't tell her friend about. Her friend knows this because I told her.) I called my gf, which is the last time we talked on the phone. I don't remember much about that conversation except I asked if her daughter knows who the father is. She said "what difference does it make?". I don't know why I let that slide.

Anyway, I texted her daughter back. "Yes, I know. How do you feel about it?"; "I think my mom is stupid. Honestly, I feel sorry for her." "Your mom isn't stupid. She loves you." "Aren't you disappointed?" "No, I'm not disappointed. I love your mom, too". So now her daughter "knew".

Meanwhile, while she's not answering my calls or texts, I'm trying to talk to the only person I think can know anything, the friend she took the pregnancy test with who I had met a few times in person. We were both so worried for her daughter. I told her friend about the whole reality of the relationship, the dumping and subsequent verbal abuse, the silent treatment, the avoidance. Her position is to run. She's said that a few times. Another friend sent me a heartfelt long email about how chaos-addicted she is, that she only married to escape her house, that she'll re-engage with me because I also represent escape, that she's not likely to change.

So Friend 1 and Friend 2 and I started a chat group to see how we could help gf's daughter, but the only conclusion we could reach was that nothing was going to change until gf got help. (Also meanwhile, gf had told me she was taking her daughter to a shrink. That she messed up her daughter's life with bad decisions she made, how she never should have gotten married, all this stuff).

Two Fridays ago, she said her doctor couldn't hear a heartbeat and that she should take dilation pills but that she would look for another opinion at a specialist in the city. Friend 1 calls her and tells her not to wait, that she can meet her in the city and take her to the specialist. Gf says "ok" but never shows up.

Anyway, she said she lost the baby. On Mother's Day. (She posted on Facebook what I thought was a pretty sick comment: The best gift a mother can get: epidural anasthesia--not that it would be sick on its surface, but to post that the day you allegedly miscarry... . )

A few days later, she says she's back in the hospital to do a "cleaning". Last Saturday, she says she's in the hospital AGAIN, because she had too much post-cleaning bleeding and that she's alone there. This is the last time we chatted. She was bleeding, wearing a big adult diaper, tired, playing Sims, the hospital  food is terrible, etc. She says she's on morphine and that helps. She says she isn't sure if they'll release her the next day or not. Also, that she needed to find someone to cook and clean at the house, and that her daughter was going to school but didn't know how (she usually takes her) and to feed the 2 dogs and 2 cats. Cooking and cleaning despite the fact that her husband lives there?A few hours later, I send a message to ask if she knows if they'll release her.  Nothing. I text the next day saying I'm worried for her physically and emotionally. No response. Also, she had told Friend 1 that her husband had taken her to this hospital, but still knew nothing about the pregnancy or miscarriage (?)

Last Wednesday,  I wrote to her daughter, telling her I was proud of her,  that I was sad to lose the baby, that I didn't ever want to leave, that her mom needs to pay attention to her mental health too, and that I was always very available to talk. It's a lot for a 15 year old to handle, but I didn't want her to feel like I just wasn't talking to her. She didn't respond. Friend 1 told me too that the daughter didn't even know her mom had lost the baby. So who knows who is telling who what... .

I keep trying to contact gf. Nothing. Friend 1 said that gf had called her the Friday she was in the hospital for the bleeding and told her she didn't want to talk to her.  That there were consequences for shutting out both herself and me. I wrote to gf too that Friend 1 is upset, but that we all just are trying to love her and help her.

Two days ago, I got a long manic-sounding message on Facebook from gf. Sorry for the parenthetical commentary, but I think it is important. This isn't verbatim, but the summary. "Why can't you both understand I need silence? I begged for it (no, she didn't, she just stopped responding.) I need silence to shut out my thoughts. I've been working two jobs to pay for the hospital stays. (she always said her husband had great insurance and that's why she didnt divorce sooner). I've been in and out of hospitals for weeks (1. I had no idea she had a job, let alone 2.; 2. wouldn't frequent hospital stays put a damper on that ability?) You're mad at me for not being near the phone all day? for not checking my chats? (Being worried about your gf and her and your dying baby's health, or expecting any update on is apparently too demanding) You took away my right to tell me daughter what I think she needs to know because she's having troubles, too. I dont check our chats because it makes me too sad. I will delete my Facebook because I am jealous of posts about babies. (She hasn't).  I am doing everything I can just to not kill myself. Some people talk about their problems, some use drugs, I wish I could, but I can't. I needed silence, not judgment. I am sick of explaining and apologizing" (I never got any explanation or apology).

I wrote her back saying we are just worried and that's from a place of love,  not judgment. That I wouldn't apologize for being concerned for her daughter, though. That when someone mentions being suicidal, that sends a distress signal. I closed with saying I understand silence is her coping mechanism and that I'd respect it. But it's hard. And I don't know if I should.

I noticed too that her husband unfriended on FB both Friend 1 and another mutual friend we had (the husband and I are not friends there of course, but I can see public view--not super attractive quality, I know, but of course I would check... . ) So I think something happened but I have no idea what.

-----------------

A few things should be noted, just highlights of our communication since my original post:

I told her that I think she pushes away the people who love her most:

"I can't deal with it. I'm safe like this. Not great, but I know the territory,  the pros and cons".

"I think the part of me you loved died and will never come back. You're fighting a lost cause".

When I said "How do you think it makes me feel that the woman who is having your baby and having complications won't tell you when the appointment is, so he can be there for you if you need emotional support? (as i said in the original post, she raged at me for 'leaving her alone' during her pregnancy).

"That wasn't me. Me acting that way".

She's been suicidal to me before, or at least talked about it.

After I came back, but before the pregnancy: "I would  kill myself if I could find a way for my daughter not to find out".

A few weeks ago talking about her daughter: "I don't mean to scare you, but sometimes I think it's better if I just get out of her way"

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So that's that. I have no idea about anything, nobody does,  and if they do, they aren't telling me. I am proud of myself for not going completely crazy,  but I admit, it's difficult. Very difficult.