What would be the result of a relationship between a NPD and a BPD ?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hi,

Not that I think of myself as a narcissist LOL, although we all have a little narcissism in us, in a healthy way, but it is something I'm giving thought on the fact that my ex partner could not really leave her husband and vice versa.

However from his side for very different reasons.  He even said that he was never going to let go of her, no matter if she still loved him or not.  What I've seen, heard from himself and whitnessed from his behavior, points the least one can say in very egocentric behavior.

He does not know the word responsability in any way, is extremely nonchalant, sexually abused his wife in the early stages of the marriage and even later tried to control her in a sexual way, lacks personal hygiene at home (which lead to disgust from her side), is not really interested in his children and doesn't take responsability for them, is always telling how good he is at work, is very manipulative (already was said to be so during his army service), when drunk he yearly gets involved in at least a fight, is very sarcastic about his wife in public, really humiliating her on moments in public, she is the fault of everything that went wrong in their marriage, can not talk about his own feelings.  He also said that he still loved his wife to her, but went out and had other relationships meanwhile.  Also has been trying to challenge me to get in a fight with him by all kinds of behavior.  His first wife ended up in psychiatry, and he expects his wife to be the slave of the house, doing all the housekeeping (this had changed a bit it seems) and between his marriages his parents had to come over to his place to do all of his housekeeping !  And he buys the love of his children.  He doesn't know how to give an honest hug or to cuddle in normal way.

I was wondering what the result would be of such a combination in a marriage if this is indeed narcissist behavior.  Any ideas ?

Thanks !

Reg

[Reg]

Hi,

Not that I think of myself as a narcissist LOL, although we all have a little narcissism in us, in a healthy way, but it is something I'm giving thought on the fact that my ex partner could not really leave her husband and vice versa.

However from his side for very different reasons.  He even said that he was never going to let go of her, no matter if she still loved him or not.  What I've seen, heard from himself and whitnessed from his behavior, points the least one can say in very egocentric behavior.

He does not know the word responsability in any way, is extremely nonchalant, sexually abused his wife in the early stages of the marriage and even later tried to control her in a sexual way, lacks personal hygiene at home (which lead to disgust from her side), is not really interested in his children and doesn't take responsability for them, is always telling how good he is at work, is very manipulative (already was said to be so during his army service), when drunk he yearly gets involved in at least a fight, is very sarcastic about his wife in public, really humiliating her on moments in public, she is the fault of everything that went wrong in their marriage, can not talk about his own feelings.  He also said that he still loved his wife to her, but went out and had other relationships meanwhile.  Also has been trying to challenge me to get in a fight with him by all kinds of behavior.  His first wife ended up in psychiatry, and he expects his wife to be the slave of the house, doing all the housekeeping (this had changed a bit it seems) and between his marriages his parents had to come over to his place to do all of his housekeeping !  And he buys the love of his children.  He doesn't know how to give an honest hug or to cuddle in normal way.

I was wondering what the result would be of such a combination in a marriage if this is indeed narcissist behavior.  Any ideas ?

Thanks !

Reg

[Scout99]

Not that I am an expert in any way, even though I have had the luck or the opposite to have been in a relationship with both an NPD and a BPD... .

I did read once in a book about Narcissism, (don't remember the title from the top of my head), and actually aso elsewhere online that at least in theory it could be a match that actually could work... . At least as long as the N finds the B desirable... .

The thing with the combo is that since the B always tends to question the relationship, (usually from the hidden perspective of fear of abandonment and fear of engulfment), and therefore gladly engages in a push and pull scenario. This in turn will trigger the N to remain in idealization mode and constantly in need to hunt for his prey... . N's get NS and a lot of satisfaction from the hunt, and hates when a relationship starts to feel safe or balanced, which to them feels boring... .

To simplyfy they both are attracted to a lot of drama, but for very different reasons... .

The B to get away from it and the N to get energy from it... .

From a different angle the N will not get so moved or thrown off by the B's constant mood swings since they are not controlled at all by feelings and have a very strong defense shield where the B has almost none... .

It could however also turn ugly I guess if the needs of the B is not met when the desire starts to fade in the N and they move from idealization to devaluation.

So for it to work, I suppose the N needs to get triggered all the time to remain in idealization. But since the B constantly causes drama, that can in some weird way create it's own balance... .

Only theories though from a rambling mind... .

scout99

[Reg]

Scout99,

Thanks ! Don't mind I'm rambling myself LOL 

From what I've read you've been in a relationship with a NPD as well.  From what I've mentioned in short on the other persons behavior, does that look familiar to you in any way ?

What you've said on the matter looks in a larger part familiar to me and his behavior.

Reg

[Scout99]

Scout99,

Thanks ! Don't mind I'm rambling myself LOL 

From what I've read you've been in a relationship with a NPD as well.  From what I've mentioned in short on the other persons behavior, does that look familiar to you in any way ?

What you've said on the matter looks in a larger part familiar to me and his behavior.

Reg

I some ways yes, In some not clearly... .

The Narcissistic personality is usually very complex, and there are just like when it comes to BPD often a matter of combinations of behavior that is also linked to how the person was brought up and so on that all have to fit if NPD is to be considered.

Like you said yourself, and more unlike BPD, narcissistic traits can be found in most people in different times, so consistency is also an important key... .

When it comes to nonchalance, yes that is a narcissistic trait. However a narcissist is an excellent actor and mimic of feelings, so when in idealization mode they can be extremely considered and behaving in a most caring way... .

The narcissistic nonchalance shows it's head when theory is put into practice... . Like if elaborate plans have been made (by the N), and promised, but then something else catches the N's interest and they can suddenly just cancel a planned trip to the zoo with the kids and while the kids cry their little hearts out, the N is completely oblivious to the fact that they have failed them... .

Threatening not to allow a partner to leave is abusive and could of course be thought of as extremely selfish, but that can stem either of fear of abandonment, which is not a big issue for a N. If a N behaves that way it is because they consider the partner to be a part of them, their property if you will, and a source of good NS, and they therefore don't want to let go. So in itself it is not necessarily a narcissistic trait... .

If the N is getting positive stimulation from sex, as opposed to being more into intellectual stimulants like wanting to feel superior brain wise, then dominance is often part of it, at least in the beginning... . Usually N's use sex as means to hook a person into liking them, so the narcissist I lived with was more into showing himself off as a fantastic lover rather than being abusive... . However most N's loose interest in sex once the relationship is established, and then become somewhat boring lovers... . (That was true in my case anyway... . ). If the partner is BPD and r/s kept in hunting mode, then I suppose sexual dominance could be an ingredient... .

Poor hygiene is not something I would describe as a N' trait... . Usually they want to be perfect and therefore donät skimp on hygiene... . Most narcissist, or at least my ex and people I have worked with are rather vane and buy tons of clothes and stuff to perfect their image as being just perfect... .

Not caring for children is a N' trait. They don't grasp the essence of empathy and lacks interest in objects/people who don't give them anything without asking a lot in return, which children do... . A typical narcissist likes to show off their children before others and can "act" as the perfect parent when people are looking, but wouldn't hesitate to betray them or appear totally oblivious to their needs behind closed doors... .

Manipulation and boasting in combo is narcissistic, also downtalking a spouse in front of others but only if they believe they stand to gain something from it, in the form of narcissistic supply. Cheating can definately take place, but a N will go to great length to hide it, both from the partner but also from everybody else... . Being viewed as a cheater doesn't gel with the image of being perfect... .  

Getting into fights and bad hygiene thrown in the mix, makes me wonder if this may also be signs of antisocial behavior, (psychopathy), rather than pure narcissism... . ?

A psychopath can be a bully and couldn't care less about what he is perceived as, and is a master manipulator on top of that. A narcissist always always worry about how they look in front of others... . Hence if a r/s doesn't work out it is always the other's fault. And the N will portray him or herself as the perfect person who is an innocent victim of the other persons badness... .

A psychopath couldn't care less about what other people may think.

[Reg]

Scout99,

Thank you very much for this long response on my question, which is most interesting !

Concerning lack of hygiene, this only occured in private, and when going to work he was nonchalant also, sometimes combining work clothes with other clothes, a very good example of his curious behavior was when he got coffee all over his shirt, he just dried it a bit up, didn't actually clean it up, and continued to visit his customers with the explanation, I had a little accident.  When he went out on social occasions with or without his wife, he expected from her that she would make the good mix of clothing to wear for him.  And he actually expected her to do the same when he went to work, before she was suffering from serious health issues with her fibromyalgia.

The humiliations were most of all in front of me, his rival in a way of speaking.  I don't know what occured on that matter in other situations, except one, and yes he was jealous on that moment again... .

He was playing the good father in front of others, but this was differrent in private. 

The picture of the sex life seems to correspond also what happened, there was a lack of sex after some time, from both sides of course... .   But he would dare to say to her I need sex, what are you going to do about this.  But this only occured twice as far as I remember.  He didn't get any... .

Yes he did see her as his private property, that is very clear to me in all kinds of ways.  I have even often said that... .

I get the idea that the fights he was involved in are related to having a relation with a married woman in one case, but also by his superior behavior towards some people when drunk in at least two cases.

And there is the case as I did mention of always playing the victim of others badness.  I remember he even did get his tires stabbed on a moment and he was the victim again of me to the public, but never filed a complaint as I was 55 miles away on that moment.  Curiously this happened just a few weeks after one of my tires had been very clearly stabbed also when I was in the area... .

On another moment there was a confusing story, due to alcohol from is side, that someone had been in his house, had taken his car keys and damaged his company car.  Leaving the hood open, doors, etc.  So I was the first one accused again, but he didn't file a complaint either for the same reason again.  I wasn't there when it happened... .

He never did anything wrong, and it was as good as impossible to make him understand that he had faults.  Although he seems to have said once that he made mistakes himself.  He was going to change his behavior, but that only lasted a few days... .   Then he was back the nonchalant him.

When he was to hug someone, that is in public, you could see that he did it in a way which showed that he was not really comfortable with it.  Even with his own kids.

Most curious behavior... .

Reg

[Reg]

BTW his - still - wife was 13 years younger then he was and 11 years younger then I am.  He certainly saw me as a threat.

[bpdspell]

I was wondering what the result would be of such a combination in a marriage if this is indeed narcissist behavior.  Any ideas ?

On paper it would seem like a Narc and a Borderline are a match made in heaven but in reality these are two very sick personality disordered human beings who will always live in a lot of dark emotional turmoil and pain. It won't be a happy life and it is a nightmare of a relationship because there's no civility, peace nor tranquility... . just lots of chaos, drama, toxic dysfunction, and disordered thinking from both partners. Sounds like hell on earth to me. And if children are involved... . God help them.


My ex's parents were a Narc/Borderline combo and they had one of the most ___tiest relationships I've ever seen a man and woman ever have. It's like watching two mentally ill kids at a playground fighting over the same rotten toy. Lots of fights, abuse, manipulation, arguments, toxicity, push pull, depression and deep unhappiness. Both were addicts and both fed off of each other's misery. Did they love each other? Yes. But who wants that face of love?

Spell

[Reg]

Spell,

Thank you for sharing this very personal story.  And sorry that you had to cope with such a situation as an extra to your ex.

I don't know what to make of my ex her husband and his behavior. A lot seems to point in the direction of narcissism, but it doesn't fit on one point at least, his lack of personal hygiene at home, his nonchalance with dressing.

I've written to someone in psychiatry I know to see if he can tell me more, might however take a few days before I get an answer on the matter.  I'm really curious on that matter.  Actually that part convinced me for a long time that he was the problem, and that she was rather naive and easily influenced by him.

After my ex her aunt committed suicide, he was to read a text for her youngest brother, who stammers a lot, at the funeral.  I remember very well that when he came on the podium, he showed for a moment a big smile, as he seemed to be pleased to be in the center of the attention.  I found this extremely unrespectfull... .

When my stephdaughter started to cry afterwards she came to me for comfort (not to her real father) and I took her in my arms and tried to calm her down.  My ex broke also out in tears when she saw this and he rushed to her to comfort her, but only to be grinning in my face, all the time that he did hold her, it was all a large comedy to him... .

Later that same afternoon he even tried to go further, came almost nose to nose to me, chest forward, and waved his hand just close to my nose, pointing in the direction of the door that I could enter the house.  I didn't run into the trap and remained calm.

Although he was much larger then I am, he later became somewhat scared of me when he heard I had been doing some boxing and that my father had been a former champion in his weight class and  that I had been a stormtrooper.

He even manipulated his own daughter by saying that I was the reason that he and her mom did split up, which was not the case.  But he was extremely manipulative... .

Reg

[Reg]

Hi,

Just wanted to share that I just heard that lack of hygiene or nonchalant clothing can be just as normal for a narcissist as for any other person.  It may explain a lot on his behavior towards everybody.  And being so obsessive in keeping his marriage.

Another part I can close for myself I guess.  I will call it narcistic behavior or something like that.  Don't know yet.  Don't want to get in the head of a narcissist as well to understand it all... .

But it may explain a lot to me on the situation I got into, right in between a borderline and a person with serious narcistic features.  Maybe a real narcissist.  Maybe not.  It's not up to me to decide that... .

Reg

[Reg]

The answer came BTW from a forum.  No answer yet from my friend... .

[Iamdizzy]

Reg,

My uBPDex dated what appeared to be. It with NPD for about 6 years on and off. Long story short, madly in *love* numerous suicide attempts on both parts in front of each other. They had to either call 911 or shove a finger down their throat to throw up the meds they intended to overdose on. Extreme jealousy, very hurtful words towards on another, physical abuse and verbal abuse on both parts, drug usage. Very toxic combo no doubt about it and they wanted to get married 

[seeking balance]

This is a match made in heaven regarding how they feed each others lacking self worth.  They both use people to self-soothe, but in different ways.

In the beginning it is heaven - the mirroring of the BPD completely works well with the need to be special of the NPD.  We know this cannot be sustained, thus the dance begins.

Here is a book review on it: https://bpdfamily.com/book_review/joan_lachkar.htm

Reg - I think it is important to look at our own NPD traits in how we may have been susceptible to these relationships.  Narcissism is not all bad, but looking at our self worth through an honest lens led me to learn more about vulnerable narcissism.  Both Clearmind and 2010 (members) have posted on this topic, you can search it and read some of the links.

Best,

SB

[Reg]

Seeking balance,

Will do that.  I "scored" at the time no hidden narcissism and low open narcissism.  My ex told me that she had fallen for me because I was to the outside a rather hard boss (I was shopmanager at the time for shops in trouble) and she knew that I was taking care of my parents, before they went to the retirement home.

Reg