Is it possible to set boundaries around stonewalling / silent treatment

[emotionaholic]

I have read the article in here about the silent treatment, but all I got out of it is confirmation that it is abusive.  Are there any boundaries that can be utilized to offset the silent treatment.  I am doing my best to treat it like a "therapeutic break" but it does not make it not hurt.  I know that the NC I am receiving right now is to punish me and all I can do is wait it out.  I used to think that it was so she could work things out in her head and sometimes I think that is true but mostly it is to punish.  Is there anything I can do besides just carry on and wait?  I do wonder how long it will take before she realizes um he is not chasing me.

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[cleotokos]

I'd like to know the answer to this too. Every other week I am punished for some minor infraction with days of emotional withdrawal and stonewalling. What to do? I can't deal with the up and down anymore.

[SweetCharlotte]

In the foreground, I think that stone-walling/NC/silent treatment is their version of "self affirmation."

They are steeling themselves against what they perceive as our abusive behavior (even if they created or embellished this in their own mind).

There's a lot of self-deception here because our suffering feeds their self affirmation, which they deny. They don't want to see it as emotional sadism. However, that is a definite by-product and part of what makes them return to the behavior again and again.

I'll have to look for this article because my uBPDh uses this very frequently, especially on special occasions that don't focus on him.

[Scarlet Phoenix]

I always thought this was a tricky one, because it's difficult to set a boundary around, just logistically.

What I find work best is just continuing with my life as if nothing is wrong, talking to him or asking questions like I normally would. He's free to not answer and continue his silent treatment, but I refuse to play. It takes some of the huff and puff out of it.

Granted, it took a while to be able to do this, because it hurt my feelings when he gave me the silent treatment. Now it's barely a blip on the radar. The difference is that I've educated myself on the disorder so I intellectually knows the mechanisms behind his behaviours. And the radical acceptance of what this disorder is has gradually sunk in. What's hard is that there's a REALITY GAP between what we want and what we have. Radical acceptance helps close it.

Radical Acceptance for family members

[briefcase]

What I find work best is just continuing with my life as if nothing is wrong, talking to him or asking questions like I normally would. He's free to not answer and continue his silent treatment, but I refuse to play. It takes some of the huff and puff out of it.

This works well when we have some healthy detachment from our partners.  Allowing them to feel their anger, resentment, or pain without us feeling like we have to do something about it for them allows this strategy to work well during a silent treatment.  It takes some time and work though. 

[DreamFlyer99]

What a familiar one! My H says "just stop."  or what I call "The Shut Down." I know it's silly, but giving it a name takes some of the sting out of it for me as it helps me have a little distance from it, helping me realize it's his deal and not mine.

I asked a similar question in the last month. it is a quandary!

The evil part of me   kind of enjoys not buying into the dance, and just talking to him like normal even if he doesn't answer. The more I've realized it's a choice he makes and I have no control over it, the more I can just go on my happy little way and not buy into his choice to be unhappy.

[Candace30]

I've found that not giving into it seems to work.  Silent treatments drive me nuts.  I'm the type of person who (in the past), when I was given silent treatments, I'd do things like call repeatedly, cry, beg, plead, show up at my BPD's house in the middle of the night.  And the more I reacted that way, the more it seems to validate and even "feed" them emotionally.  And the more silent treatments they gave me.  I see it as emotionally abusive and a means of control.  It is also extremely immature and counter-productive to maintaining and building a healthy relationship. 

My ex (who could give a silent treatment for a month at a time) once confessed that he saved voicemail messages of me begging him to call and talk to me.  He said that every time he considered ending the silent treatment, he would listen to my voicemail message begging and crying, and it would give him the will to give me the silent treatment for just a little bit longer.  How sick is that?

So, I don't give into silent treatments anymore.  I found that if you go on with your life and don't give them energy, they won't give you the silent treatment anymore.  And if they do, the silent treatments won't last as long. 

The important thing is to always maintain your own life and your own friends/hobbies/interests.  Take the energy off of them and put it into yourself. 

[cleotokos]

I usually just ignore it, after a few days or a week he slowly comes around and starts acting normal again. With a few pointed comments about how I don't care about him.  I'm getting really sick of the roller coaster. Yesterday morning I bbm'd him after a fight to say I was sorry I got so angry at him. He was actually remaining calm during this fight. I had a right to be mad at what he was saying, but I do think I overreacted for a variety of reasons. I don't like to lose my temper. With BBM, you can see when someone's read your message. The first was an apology, which he read and didn't respond to. The second was me saying "you don't have to give me the silent treatment, you know". We had just been in this the week previous, and I wasn't prepared to go back on his ___ list just yet. He read that and didn't respond. The third I let loose, saying "oh so it's ok for you to get mad, never apologize and act like you did nothing wrong. But I can't get mad, realize I was wrong and say I'm sorry? I deserve to be punished for this?" He claimed he had just woken up and seen all the messages, when I could see him reading and not responding all the while (I called BS on that). He says "you must really feel bad about last night". Like he delights in my suffering? Long story short, he's talking to me... . though he said he's thinking about moving out for a bit because this is all in my imagination. I guess I'M too crazy for HIM to put up with.

So, did I set a boundary - or did I give him what he wanted here? I don't know. I just know I couldn't put up with another week of emotional withdrawal. I felt like I was calling him on his BS and pointing out how hypocritical he was being. Maybe he thought better of what he was starting, or maybe he wanted some kind of interaction and further fight. In any case, it's avoided the days/week of punishment I usually endure.

[emotionaholic]

So I guess the long and short is no.  There is not a boundary that can be giving in terms of the silent treatment, NC, stonewalling.  But continuing on with life as though nothing is happening, smile on your face, unaffected, may reduce the frequency and duration.  Living your life for you.

I feel for those of you who are living together.  The silent treatment and "running away" are what have kept me from having her move in.  I think it would be hell.  I had to go through it once on a trip with the kids where she did not talk to me for three days and I could not drive fast enough to get us all home so that I could get away from the pain it caused me.  That also happened to be the trip we took a week after getting engaged and we were going to tell the kids, we each have one, that we were going to get married.  Sucky.

On a second note not living together is hell also.  There is just nothing.  I am doing my best to just continue on my way like nothing is wrong.  I am not contacting her and letting her have her NC bit, but by not contacting her I feel like I am just playing the same game.  When it all comes down to it I miss her.

[DreamFlyer99]

emotionaholic,

it is a sticky one for sure and like you said, Sucky.

It must be weirder/harder if you don't live together. Consensus seems to be to not let yourself take on the weight of their issue by going on with your life and not acting glum and giving into their drama, just "doing your life." When you are separated by actual space and place I guess it would feel like you were playing along to not respond. Huh.

How are you seeing this play out in terms of your future? Does this stuff happen a lot with her?

I feel ya. i'm learning too.

[emotionaholic]

I don't like playing the silent game, but what choice do I have.  I can not force her to talk.  I am going off the advice of her T that I have seen with her and also see on my own, to not contact her.  She is really pissed at me right now, but it is due to her fabrication and hatred of a particular friend of mine.  The last thing I said to her and in a very sincere and calm voice was that I loved her and want her in my life and that i was not going anywhere.  Then I walked out the door, she had asked me to leave.

She does do this often or at least way more that I find tolerable.  We have had lots of on again off again in the 3 years I have known her.  As far as in the future part of me thinks that if she were to move in together that she would loose the ability to "run away".  Even my son10 said the other day " Daddy I think that if you marry hit_ then things will get better because she cant leave"  Kids they say the darnedest things.

I just feel stuck right now.  The only consolation I have is that when I was dropping my son off down the street from her house that the potted flowers I got her for 4th of July are still on her porch.

[Grey Kitty]

Boundaries aren't the right tool to deal with the silent treatment. This thread is full of better tools to cope with the silent treatment.

Sometimes a pwBPD just goes away to get out of some of the emotions they are feeling with you and need some time to calm down, and will be better later. Letting them have this space is the best thing to do. Sometimes they get over the feelings but forget to come back, so a friendly "touch" which just lets them know you are friendly and available can be helpful at that point. I'll also say that the "punitive" silent treatment is a completely different animal--it says the same nothing in a very different way!

I'll also add that there is one boundary you can enforce: "I will not be in a r/s with somebody who gives me the silent treatment." I've never seen it come to that, but unfortunately, I can't think of a lesser boundary.

[emotionaholic]

Thanks Grey Kitty.  Your advice and insight is well received.

I do know that her NC and silence are a combination of punishment and self healing.  Deleting me from gmail chat affirms the punishment,she has never done this one.  The flowers still on her porch affirms the self healing, I assumed she would chuck them.  The ratio of punishment vs self healing I don't know.  I fear if I reach out to soon and give her a "friendly touch" it will re trigger what sent her into silent mode and take her beginning to miss me right back to hating me.

[DreamFlyer99]

I don't like playing the silent game, but what choice do I have.  I can not force her to talk.  I am going off the advice of her T that I have seen with her and also see on my own, to not contact her.  She is really pissed at me right now, but it is due to her fabrication and hatred of a particular friend of mine.  The last thing I said to her and in a very sincere and calm voice was that I loved her and want her in my life and that i was not going anywhere.  Then I walked out the door, she had asked me to leave.

She does do this often or at least way more that I find tolerable.  We have had lots of on again off again in the 3 years I have known her.  As far as in the future part of me thinks that if she were to move in together that she would loose the ability to "run away".  Even my son10 said the other day " Daddy I think that if you marry hit_ then things will get better because she cant leave"  Kids they say the darnedest things.

I just feel stuck right now.  The only consolation I have is that when I was dropping my son off down the street from her house that the potted flowers I got her for 4th of July are still on her porch.

Grey Kitty always has great wisdom! Must be the green helmet thing.

I'm not sure how to ask this question other than to ask, and i'll back up my good intentions by saying it's lovely that you want to be there for her, i'm just wondering what would make her change her behavior from the way it is now, simply by getting married? You obviously are doing a lot more in the early stages of your relationship to be informed and to stop contributing to the crazy-making behavior, and if i'd known any of this I would have added less "crazy" to the making myself in my nearly 4 decade relationship. So kudos to you for all that. Does she still see her T?

[emotionaholic]

I first want to say thank you for everyone's continued interest and advice.  I really am wanting to improve myself, and to be as informed as possible about this illness to have a lasting and relatively stable relationship with this woman.

As for the questions of marriage.  I personally don't see marriage as a tool to fix a problem.  I did propose to her 2 years ago and she said yes.  I was never so happy.  Then she crushed me when she dumped me on vacation with the kids.  I have since forgiven her, but never forgot.  We never talked about it much since then, some fantasizing but no plans.  I have been waiting to see some improvements.  Basically I lack the confidence that it wont end in divorce.  I have however spent the last 1 1/2 years adding 1200 sq ft to my house during my spare time in preparation of us living together.  Which certainly added exhaustion and stress from me to our relationship.  It is no secret that I want to eventually live together.  She has never pressed the marriage issue though and I think she goes back and forth with it.  Black and white.

As for therapy.  I am not sure if she is seeing her T.  We went individually and together for just over a year.  She always seemed in control in front of the T and most things were pointed at me and I just did my best to remain calm try to understand and make changes.  Once she did loose it in front of the T and I was actually happy to have the T witness it.  Then after a breakup a few months ago I went to see the T alone.  The first thing the T said when I sat down was "You must be exhausted"  That was the session that I was informed she has BPD.  And I thought she was just crazy.  I know that gf was starting the think that T was not working and was taking a break.  I have been seeing the T every two weeks now and against confidentiality T said she had not seen gf.  When I saw the T a couple days ago she did not tell me ether way.  So I really don't know if gf is still going.  The T knows that I love this woman dearly and that I am very loyal, exactly what the gf most desires, and has told me that gf loves and cares deeply for me.  The T said that if we continue on in this relationship she wants to bring this BPD thing out in the open and hopefully get gf into group DBT therapy.  I am not concerned about labels and swear to never use the word "borderline."  Knowing that it is an illness and not just crazy heightens my compassion and supplies tools that I desperately need.  Though my first attempt at boundaries and SET brought the silence on me.  While in limbo all I can do is read, read, read.

[DreamFlyer99]

I first want to say thank you for everyone's continued interest and advice.  I really am wanting to improve myself, and to be as informed as possible about this illness to have a lasting and relatively stable relationship with this woman.

Though my first attempt at boundaries and SET brought the silence on me.  While in limbo all I can do is read, read, read.

Well, reading and learning is the best thing you can do at this point. Whatever happens, you'll be a stronger person.

Good luck on your journey.

[yeeter]

And if you think about it, trying to get someone to stop the silent treatment is another form of trying to control their behavior.  Never really works well.  Lots of good advice here on what YOUR behavior options are.  Starting with detachment, such that it doesn't bother you as much.

The cycle is feed by them getting the reaction they want from you.  Quit giving the reaction and it's likely to change (or at a minimum, you just won't care so much any more). Easier said than done as always... .

[Chosen]

2nd yeeter's post.  All of those outrageous BPD behaviours are to provoke strong reactions and emotions in the receiver.   I think the best way to handle silent treatment is not to passively wait it out, but carry on with your life as normal as possible, while allowing the room for the pwBPD to ease back into conversation.

Say you still contact her maybe once a day, or on certain issues which you normally communicate about.  If there is no reply, then you don't push for a reply (if you succeed, the response is unlikely to be something you want anyway), you let her be.  You make your plans, do your stuff.  If she replies, you don't jump at it (if you jump at the chance of talking to her again, she will likely just push you away), but you maintain a decent conversation.  For me, it's usually mirroring the frequency or dialogue initiated by the pwBPD. 

Of course, it's easier said than done, but at least this shows you're not just passively waiting for her to do something.  It takes a bit of control out of her hands and into yours.

[emotionaholic]

Yes it is all easier said than done.  The hardest part is not having anyone to talk to about all this.  I just spent the last 4 days on a camping trip with my family and spent most of it being very quiet.  Nobody wants to hear any more about gf and I am learning to not talk to friends and family about her, mainly to not cause judgement.  All of this is heightening my feelings of being isolated and alone.  Stuck inside my head and unemotionally going through the motions while in social events.  I know it is all just depression and have struggled with it most of my life. 

Detachment is the hardest.  Being the pursuer in the relationship, I have for the most part been the one to reel her back in, makes detachment feel more like abandonment.  And after almost a month now of NC my resentment is growing.  I so badly want to go to her house and tell her to "cut the crap" stop playing childish games and lets get this relationship back on track.  But by doing that I will just be reinforcing the silent treatment behavior.  Or should I just give her a call like nothing happened and say "hey hit_ that trip to San Francisco is coming up and I never booked the plane tickets are you still wanting to go?"

[cleotokos]

Emotionaholic, I second the feeling alone bit. I do the same, I have nobody to confide in because I fear their judgement and they just tell me to leave him. It's not what I need.

[yeeter]

A big part of taking care of yourself, is to back fill the emotional loneliness in other ways.  This means making sure you have a strong support cast other than your BPD partner.  Friends, family, outside activities (healthy ones) you do on a regular basis.

You will never get everything you want out of this relationship because they are not able to give it.  So you have to figure out what you 'need', and fill these in other ways.

I had a wakeup call at one point.  A really close and good friend just up and told me they no longer wanted to be friends because I kept going on about my wife too much.  And yet didnt leave.  So they were tired of hearing about it.

They were absolutely right.  I shut the heck up and took actions towards acceptance, and living my life in a way that I could control, and we were able to remain friends.

Take care of yourself     EVERYTHING is more difficult if you are feeling tired, and alone.  Which all of us do at some point.

[SweetCharlotte]

Yes, Cleo and emotionaholic, I'm at that crossroads too where the silent treatment has started to feel like abandonment.

We're married but live 400 miles apart, so when he wants to "detach" there are many dramatic possibilities, such as walking out of my home in the middle of the night, staying in a hotel, and flying back to his city in the morning. This is what transpired two weeks ago. He has been willing to talk and text superficially, but I was not so willing to let this episode go.

It galls me to read that you have added a wing to your home, emotionaholic, and she refuses to take in the potted plants on her porch. She no doubt instigated the feud that spoiled the trip when you had planned to announce your engagement. So typical. Soon after I became engaged to my H, he started hounding me about the little bit of contact I maintained with my first H, father of my oldest child. That had to end. Little did I know, it was only the beginning and I always lose at the appeasement game.

I guess it galls me the more because I see myself in your situation and I am sick of playing the emotional caretaker and making sacrifices that get thrown in my face. At least your gf has been diagnosed and there is no denial of her condition. My H refuses to see any sort of mental health professional. However, her having stopped therapy, from what you can tell, may be the underlying cause of your current problem. She may have decided that her life sucks and she is chucking everything—therapy, the r/s, etc. What is the difference between the silent treatment and being dumped by one's BPD SO? At some point the distinction begins to blur and that's where I feel like I am.

[Newkate]

At some point the distinction begins to blur and that's where I feel like I am.

Me too, SweetCharlotte. It's so confusing. My uBPDbf "ended" things this last time by saying things like, "I can't do this with you currently." "I've failed and that's not fair to us." "I'm not leaving, I just can't finish." So here I am in this limbo. He left all of my belongings on my doorstep after saying these things about a month ago. Recently he's been texting about how he misses me. I am trying to focus on myself, but a big part of me knows I have to make a decision about whether I want to stick with this relationship. The anxiety over what to do is almost unbearable. I know deep down these times are probably the most important times for me to grow as my own person, but dammit it's hard!

[DreamFlyer99]

i'm curious what you all would answer to a question my T has asked me a few times, but i'll phrase it differently for those of you not living in the same home together: What does it feel like to not have them in your life? In the case of the "missing in action" girlfriends or boyfriends, if you aren't worrying about what's going on, what does it feel like? Is there less drama, are you less concerned about what could happen when you do something that displeases them, stuff like that? I've been married to my uBPDh for nearly 37 years, have only understood the dynamics in the last 2, and she'll ask me, "Can you imagine what it would be like if you could take a trip and be away for a while?" I usually say, "Sure I can, I wouldn't always be wondering if i'm gonna say the wrong thing or make the wrong noise or set him off." The pwBPD can be rather high-maintenance. And I just wonder how that sort of question affects those of you.

IF you don't mind, i'm curious to hear your thoughts.

[SweetCharlotte]

"Missing in action"—that is so funny. That's exactly what it's like when my uBPDh runs away from me (this has happened quite literally, though this last time he only walked briskly because he knew I was not going to pursue).

There is some military background to each of our families, so I have often used terms like "going incommunicado" for when he is stone-walling me. But "missing in action" is definitely the best!

Yes; it's an interesting question. This time, despite the pain and hurt, I have had to grumble that perhaps our being apart and NC is for the best, at least for now, because I have a major project due at the end of August, and at that point I must also begin something new at work. I have to realize that having him in my home, even though he is my husband and we are supposed to be life partners, would hinder more than help me. Since we mainly live apart, when he is with me he sees it as vacation time (we are both educators, btw). He must be entertained, fed, clothed, etc. We joke about it, but he asks me every morning, "What are we doing today?" If I say I have to work, he is obviously glum. So, to go back to your military analogy, it's like a momentary truce or ceasefire. I am well dug into my trench, making progress, and jotting down notes for the next assault. All quiet on the BPD front.

Well, it's quite something that you managed for over a quarter of a century with your mate without a blueprint or diagram of what you were dealing with. Kind of like being lost at sea in uncharted waters. I'm glad you feel you understand the dynamic now. I honestly don't know if I will make it as long as you have.

[DreamFlyer99]

"Missing in action"—that is so funny. That's exactly what it's like when my uBPDh runs away from me (this has happened quite literally, though this last time he only walked briskly because he knew I was not going to pursue).

Well, it's quite something that you managed for over a quarter of a century with your mate without a blueprint or diagram of what you were dealing with. Kind of like being lost at sea in uncharted waters. I'm glad you feel you understand the dynamic now. I honestly don't know if I will make it as long as you have.

Glad you like the MIA thought! So strange to have someone run/walk briskly away, interesting indeed.

Yes, let's just put the length of time I managed down as "bad boundaries"!   I went from a childhood with a uNPD/BPD mother and alcoholic father into a marriage where I guess I carried on the same way I dealt with childhood--figuring I "just didn't understand" and that "if I hadn't said that... " etc. Plus we've had a lot of good times as a family, and I tend to remember in the front of my brain the overall goodness of raising kids etc. But boy I do think they may be on to something here, since I've been trying to use validation and such it has taken some of the anger out of "conversations" with my H. (for now.)

I was always pretty Pollyanna too, looking for the best, but then the truth of the disappointments would surface, so i'd just shove them down and hide them from view, causing more craziness in the back of my brain where the two would collide.

I do think it's different at this point in my life, if I hadn't already spent this long in the marriage so that I feel we are so tied together, and if i'd known all I would have to give up having a BPD partner, I suppose it might have been different. I don't really know. i'm loyal to a fault.

I guess I was just wondering what the knowledge of the disorder does to the dynamic when you are able to look at the truth of it all. Thanks for responding, SweetCharlotte!

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Let's not forget the option of just ignoring it and going about with your everyday life, engaging your partner as normal. Lot less satisfying for our partner when they don't actually gain any control over you because you remain calm and level headed

[emotionaholic]

To answer your question Dreamflyer99 I have been talking with my/her T about this also.  I am trying to get to the root of why I choose to stay in such an unstable relationship.  Loyalty is a big one.  Attraction is also a big one, in my eyes she is the most beautiful woman ever.  Love is at the top.  We each have kids so the dream of family I think tops them all.  I really don't like having to be so cautions of what I say and do out of fear of her reactions.  Even when I am being perfect I get sucker punched out of nowhere with something made up.  I have many long lasting friendships but notice that if I spent too much time with someone I get board.  That said I also really don't like drama.  So I think that deep down where I can not see I actually enjoy the instability because it brings some level of constant excitement.  Something new all the time.  It gives me something to focus and dwell on.  I am great at getting projects up and running and will obsess with a new project with great enthusiasm.  Then when the project is 60% done I loose interest and want a new project.  This relationship seems to give me that in some twisted way.  The T laughed and said yes hit_ is far from boring.  So much of her is exactly what I have been searching for in a partner and she was the first person in 20 years I felt a real connection and utter bond with.  I know I lack self esteem and admit that when I was getting to know her and started to see her insecurities I thought "perfect she is just screwed up enough to stay with me."  I know kind of messed up on my part and I did just order "Love yourself like your life depends on it."  I don't want to be like this anymore.

As far as the silent treatment goes.  If and when she comes back I am going to have a real serious talk about this behavior.  I have expressed many times how hard it is on me and that the thing I need most from her is for her to not run away, go "MIA."  Without us living together it is too easy for her to run and hide when she feels threatened, real or imagined.  Which is what she does.  I know that she does not like the NC bit either and expresses how much she does not like not talking to me.  That is where I am stuck the most.  She initiated this as punishment so I am trying to not take it on as punishment and give into her emotional sadism.  If I go chasing her am I not reinforcing her poor behavior?

[DreamFlyer99]

Let's not forget the option of just ignoring it and going about with your everyday life, engaging your partner as normal. Lot less satisfying for our partner when they don't actually gain any control over you because you remain calm and level headed

I think what Scarlet said is likely the best idea. Just do your normal thing, asking them a question when you normally would, telling them something like you normally would... .

That doesn't feed into their need for attention and drama.

Long before I had a clue what was happening with my uBPDh, before my T helped me put the BPD idea and my H together, I used to say "I think he is so miserable that he just wants everybody around him to be miserable too." And I still think that's a good part of it. He has a lot of pain he's never dealt with around his abusive mother and emotionally absent father (who actually told him one time, "I don't want to be responsible for giving you the wrong advice." but then he did live with a crazy  lady.) And he tends to react to me and to life around him out of that pain, roaring like a bear with a thorn in his paw.

Thanks for responding, Emotionalholic! It's interesting to see how each of us ended up in these relationships and why we stay.