Dating

[MaybeSo]

I think this might get more exposure here than building new r/s board.

I am taking baby steps to venture into the world of dating again.

I have not dated since 2006.

I met my last significant other on match.com, after being single for about six years. I was married for six years before that.

I'm 49; people say I look 40. But ive always looked younger than my age, at 39 people thought I was in my late 20s. I'm pretty, in shape, bla bla bla. Whatever.

So, I am open to meeting folks organically, but obviously meeting folks is a numbers game. I live

in a more rural area, an hour away from a more metro area. If I stay put and rely on running

into someone organically, I could be single for a very, very long time.

I do not mind being alone or single! I'm in no rush! But I need to take some steps toward being

available to start a new relationship because I value partnership. I move slowly; if I never take

these steps, nothing will change.

So, I have a nicely worded profile on a popular dating site. looking for friendship/connections,

open to and hoping to find a significant other but in no rush kind of thing

I get a lot if views and messages. I reply selectively.

I am looking for integrity and similar values.

A man that looks very promising wrote me, and I wrote back in kind. When I say looks

promising, I'm looking at a host of criteria offered by the site; basic stats, geography, and

personality match based on a ton of lifestyle questions that gauge opinions on ethics, dating

practices, lifestyle choices and preferences... . values. I look at profiles where there is an indication

of a decent match there. This man overall had a really wonderful matching profile.

Then I read his answers to the questions specifically, not just the stats.  this takes some time.

You can also explain your answers if you want to. So... . This man who is obviously pretty

intelligent and sophisticated and sensitive in a lot of areas ... . Indicates the following:

Question: once a cheater, always a cheater?

Options given were basically... .

Yes

No

They just haven't found the right person yet.

He selected as his answer, "they just haven't found the right person yet."

I had selected, "No" but included an explanation... . that if there's a pattern of cheating, it's likely to continue because that's how patterns work.

I find it a red flag for a person to equate "cheating" with just not having found the right partner yet. To me, it implies a lack of integrity AS you look for the right partner, which means you yourself aren't the "right" partner... . For anyone.

Of course, there are instances where we exit one participating bad relationship by meeting someone else... . and cheating... . but it's rare for that to be successful and if it happens repeatedly then you are back to a dysfunctional pattern.

Another question said, would you sleep or cuddle in bed with a member of the opposite sex while in a committed r/s with someone else?

He said "yes"... . with an explanation that he would maintain his boundaries so that it did not become sexual. ?

I just answered NO... . and in my explanation, I said " if there's deceit involved,  this is not cool".  I

find it  hard to imagine why I'd be cuddling in bed with another man, if I were in a committed relationship? Right? Who does that? Well,  my EX would do that!

His answers, to me, are big red flags. It bums me out that a 53 year old man, at this stage of life, seems so confused about what I see as just basic common sense relationship issues. He is thoughtful and insightful in other answers, but his answers in this area... . to me, indicates very wishy washy boundaries and some integrity issues surrounding fidelity. He "feels" like my ex. Gulp.

[eeyore]

I agree with you that those would be red flags.

Reminds me of being told by someone that guys aren't just friends when talking about my guy friends.  However, he was the exception when it came to him and his ex.  In his mind it would be ok for them to sleep in the same room, go out to lunch, etc.  Because they were just friends or like a brother and sister.  I Still don't buy it.  What a double standard. 

Your match guy could sleep in the same bed with a female, but how would he feel if his committed relationship girl slept in a bed with some other guy?  To me there shouldn't be any ambiguity people in a relationship don't share beds with others.  And he didn't say Yes only if all other options were exhausted.  I have often wondered when traveling with men coworkers what would happen if I got stuck due to weather and there was only one hotel room or something.  Fortunately, I have always been able to get my own room or bunk with another girl.  Sleep seems to be different than cuddling.  To me cuddling would be off limits.

The answers that man gave in response to your questions show that you both have different standards.  Cheating is wrong as it's defined as an immoral way of achieving a goal.  You didn't ask once a swinger always a swinger.  Swingers can't be cheaters assuming they are openly swingers.  While I don't want to be with a swinger as that's not my lifestyle I consider them cheaters. 

A no answer with the caveat that maybe once a cheater and learned a lesson would have been understood.  A cheater being a cheater because they haven't found the right person is questionable to me.  I know zero cheaters who quit cheating because they found the right person.  More like I quit cheating because I had the right person and I cheated and that person dumped me and I've learned my lesson.  Or the cheater is always a cheater. 

[123Phoebe]

LOL!  It sounds like he's looking for that special someone who's willing to take him on as a challenge.  To teach him the error of his ways... .   So that she becomes 'the one' and then feels so so special.  Someone who has equal intimacy issues.

I yi yi

[MaybeSo]

Exactly! To both replies!

And you know what?

I'm just going to be perfectly honest here.

I am drawn instinctually to this guy! He is like catnip to me. Six years ago, I'd have been all over that "challenge".

Today, it's more just disappointment that he is off limits to me. I don't want to be any man's mommy, therapist, teacher, dominatrix (at least not outside the bedroom!)

I just want to have a relationship with another grown up!

[123Phoebe]

I just want to have a relationship with another grown up!

Good luck with that!  I have to believe they're out there, but when I listen to other people's stories (outside of bpdfamily), I begin to wonder... .  

There's a lot of dysfunction out there

[MaybeSo]

Ha! I know, I know... .

I notice myself rationalizing his answers, too... . cause part if me wants to blow off the red flags and pretend it's not red, but maybe a pale shade of yellow.

My mind went straight to:

Maybe he didn't really understand the questions or didn't fully understand the implication of his own answers... .

Maybe I'm being way too analytical and I'll never meet anyone if I critique every litle thing.

Then I thought... . just trust your gut instinct and find someone whose answers aren't so gamey!

[123Phoebe]

Then I thought... . just trust your gut instinct and find someone whose answers aren't so gamey!

Yep, not trusting my gut and overthinking is what has always gotten me into trouble.  Blah.

[eeyore]

so any "new" interest you care to share with us?  I love living vicariously through you.   

And it's so much easier to have a clear good opinion on someone Else's love life.  So difficult when it's me.

[MaybeSo]

Ha! Too funny... .

I was really happy to see another very promising match who answered these kinds of questions in a much more straightforward way... , good match stats, etc. when I took the time to really examine closely his written essay he said... . "I'm  the boy next door with a nice attitude, the bad boy doesn't come out until you get to know me better"... . oh, and he drinks a lot. Yikes!

This is clearly not going to be easy.   

[123Phoebe]

Oh my god, this is so funny.  These GUYS are so f'n funny!

And of course your take on them

I guess one redeeming quality is their honesty

[eeyore]

... . "I'm  the boy next door with a nice attitude, the bad boy doesn't come out until you get to know me better"... . oh, and he drinks a lot. Yikes!

Did he really say he drinks a lot?  How did you arrive at he drings a lot?  Just wondering.

[Blazing Star]

Then I thought... . just trust your gut instinct and find someone whose answers aren't so gamey!

I am an overthinker too  . So I think your awareness is great! Hopefully now that you are aware and have thought this one through the desire/wishful thinking of 'just yellow, not red flags' you can smile and tell yourself that was a close call, and then let go and trust your gut. You are doing all the right things, passing the tempting tests too, you are on the right track! It takes strength to listen to your gut. And you sound strong.

Love Blazing Star

[KellyO]

Well, knowing my exBF hunts on dating sites (which I had no idea, I don't use them, never will, and he always said he does not chace women in anyway... no, he expects them chace him), I would stay out from any dating sites. But so I have always done. I had one profile 14 years ago, and experience was devastating: married men wanting sex etc. I met one guy and he was disappointed that I was not prettier, and he told me that. Go figure!

This is the truth: many men on dating sites are not serious about dating. They are just hunting in candy store. Many are there because they are socialy handicapped. It is common knowledge that people with personality disorder of any kind love anonymity and sheer amount of "possibilities" in dating sites and internet world. Many of us have devastating experiences of finding out that our loved one had a second life full of dating profiles and whatnots. You don't want that.

There must be other ways to meet people for you. Must be. Because dating sites are not healthy place to look for anything. I'm glad you are being picky and seeing red flags. Mind you, my ex-bf is a perfect lier and can expect what kinds of answers you want and give them to you. For that moment he believes himself too. Before you know it, you would be in a hell again.

I have known one couple who met on dating site and married etc. It was not happy ending in the long run even it sounds so romantic.

[Cumulus]

Kellyo, just hunting in candy store... . ! Gotta love that. I think for women who are on dating sites it is like looking for that one perfect diamond amongst all the worthless gravel. I don't do dating sites either. For me it is because I live in a small community, one where everyone knows every one else's business and people like to play match maker for the single people they know so it is easier to meet people the old fashioned way. In a large city though where you may just know the people you work with it may be the only way of getting to know and date others. I've seen my xBPDh's online profile and he sounds pretty good. I do think though that most anyone on this site would soon pick him out as being disordered. At least I like to think so. 

[MaybeSo]

I live in a rural area; the prospects are very slim.

The metro area is about an hour away.

I don't put anything on a profile that would be an invasion of privacy or embarrassing.

I'm not thrilled about dating sites either, never have been,  but connection through dating sites is actually how most people report meeting up these days. Indeed, its through electronic avenues that people meet, for friendship, dating, activity, business networking, commerce, support. Look at linked-in, match, okcupid, meet-up, facebook,bpdfamily... . it's people connecting through the Internet. Using the Internet doesn't prevent me from meeting someone organically, if I run into the love of my life next week at the market, fantastic! Nothing about the Internet prevents that possibility, though I suspect the odds are not in my favor.

KellyO, creepy people live in our world, not just the Internet. I could run into a creep at my Farmers Market. Unless I choose to fully cut myself off from dating as a whole, there is no perfect safety when you meet people and go out into our world.

If I stay off these channels, I fear I will be quite isolated and eliminating a whole world of people that i not otherwisw evdn know are out there. And the chances of meeting someone in my demograhic organically during my usual work days/weekends would be slim to none.

I network with associates, friends, hairdressers (hairstylists are the best in terms of knowing nice men who are single). I don't cut myself off from other channels.

But... .

It is 2013. In my part of the world, the internet is a big part of how people meet.

I wonder how many people met a loved one in the last 10 years by running into them organically versus a Internet connection?

Also, I am bummed out enough that I have to bite the bullet and go out in the world this way at all again, instead of being with my ex, which was the plan I'd hoped for over the last 7 years. So, might I ask that this thread NOT turn into the Internet dating horror story thread? That's really not

helpful.

thank you!

[MaybeSo]

Eeyore, he did answer a question related to drinking. Options are none, rarely, lite drinker,

Most people say they are lite drinkers... . that kind of wording.

He selected an option that he drinks a lot.

Hmmmm

[DesertChild]

You can also network by doing activities and hobbies you like. For example, playing a sport, taking a class for yourself, etc. You don't have to be stuck with your circle of friends and the internet--see if you can widen your network.

Most people find marriage options through their weak ties... . that is a friend of a friend or a friend of a friend of a friend.

[livednlearned]

Maybeso,

You are so good at reading the responses carefully -- it says a lot about you and where you are at in your life right now. I admire that. 

I met my new b/f while out walking dogs, so meeting people does happen organically these days. But I did a version of what you're doing -- listened carefully to what he said, watched for red flags, moved very, very slowly through different stages of the r/s.

For me, I thought about the process of meeting someone like an opportunity to learn about myself, and less about finding someone. It's been a much healthier experience, more fulfilling. It sounds like you are doing it in a similar way.

[talithacumi]

It strikes me that any answer to that drinking questions is going to be highly subjective and indicate more about someone's relative personal comfort with how much they drink. He clearly "feels" he drinks a lot, but what does that mean really? For some people, more than one beer a week is "too much." For my ex, on the other hand, there was no such thing.

Same goes for the essay that made him sound like the boy next door until you got to know him and the bad boy came out.

Personally, I'm impressed with the honesty he's demonstrating by answering both questions the way he did.

Not getting the answer we want/are hoping to get isn't always a red flag. Sometimes it can be just the opposite.

I mean, think about it. You asked that drinking question. It's obviously important to you, and the chances are good it's not because you're a hardcore alcoholic looking for someone to get snockered with every night. A guy with BPD would recognize that, and compulsively give you exactly the answer they know you're probably hoping to get.

We've both been there and done that to (literally!) near death, maybeso. To find someone different, I think you have to be able to recognize, appreciate, and take a chance on someone who is different - someone who isn't perfect (or who at least doesn't seem to be nearly so perfect as our exes first did anyway!).

You say the rest of his profile was encouraging. What about it did you like so much?

[123Phoebe]

Something else to keep in mind is that you don't have to get into a serious relationship with any of these guys, MaybeSo.

Since you're just dipping your toe in the water here, maybe you could think of it as dating for the sake of dating.  Getting yourself out there.  Meet new people.  Go out for a few nice meals/activities and take it from there... .   Who knows, you might make a friend or one of these guys might have a friend for you to meet?

I think your spidey-sense is keen, so I would trust myself as a 'grown up' to be able to cut through the bull and look at it from the perspective of an adventure!  An adventure in getting to know myself more intimately

It could be kinda fun

[MaybeSo]

All good really good points/observations... . thank you! I will reply more thoroughly later... when more time... .

One correction. These are not question I asked. There are a huge amount of of lifestyle, dating, ethics etc., questions generated by the site; we all choose to answer as many or as little of these questions as we want. So, for example, there was a site generated question about drinking, and he chose to answer it publically. But, I have not asked him any questions personally to these men, at least not yet.

[Grey Kitty]

I'd not get completely hung up on one or two questions.

For example the Q about cheating... . if he answered it thinking about other people who cheated, in a hypothetical way because he didn't really know anybody who did... . hadn't been in a r/s where he was cheated on or cheated on somebody... . he might not have a lot of useful thoughts about what it actually means.

I'd also second Phoebe's comment--Don't look for a guy you want to grow old together with on a dating site--look for a guy who might be fun to go on a date with! Even if there is a possible red flag in there (not 10 or 20 's, though!)

If you enjoy dating this person, you will have a chance to better get to him and worry about next steps.

There is a "sequence" on these sites I understand... . first finding a profile... . then on-site messages... . then txts/emails... . then phone calls, or meeting for coffee, etc. Have some fun with the process!

I once met a woman who was writing a book called "50 first dates." She actually started having fun with it. Then she found the guy she wanted on date #49. He insisted that she continue and have at least that one more first date anyhow! I heard an excerpt from one of the failures, and it was pretty funny

[MaybeSo]

For me, I thought about the process of meeting someone like an opportunity to learn about myself, and less about finding someone. It's been a much healthier experience, more fulfilling. It sounds like you are doing it in a similar way.

Yes, I'm a bit of an introvert so I think just chatting with new people is good for me, it need not be all about finding Mr. Right.  Just meeting and getting to know different people, and getting to know more about myself in the process.

I think you have to be able to recognize, appreciate, and take a chance on someone who is different - someone who isn't perfect (or who at least doesn't seem to be nearly so perfect as our exes first did anyway!).

You say the rest of his profile was encouraging. What about it did you like so much?

I liked his responses to other straightforward questions: Like, have you been faithful in all your last relationships?  He chose to answer that particular question, and he answered yes.  He also indicated he would not think it's okay to be cuddling with a member of the opposite sex when he's in an exclusive relationship with someone else. That kind of stuff. He is ranked as a bit more old fashioned than the average user, which in my opinion is probably a good match for me.  He has an interesting hobby/profession that I admire and take interest in. He describes himself as a no-nonsense kind of guy, and that's how his entire profile comes across, as down to earth, no nonsense.

I'd also second Phoebe's comment--Don't look for a guy you want to grow old together with on a dating site--look for a guy who might be fun to go on a date with! Even if there is a possible red flag in there (not 10 or 20 Red Flag's, though!)

Yes, again, just meet people, and don't take it too seriously or think of each person you talk to as a potential mate at all... . just someone to chat with and find out about for fun.

 

[topknot]

Hey, MaybeSo, we are very much alike in our proximity to a large city and using Internet dating sites. I actually prefer to, for lack of a better term, "weed people out" ahead of time. For instance, religion is very important to me, so I wouldn't want to start liking someone and then find out oh crap, that's a deal breaker for me. I have met some very nice men this way. Are they the love of my life? No, but we enjoyed our time together. The one I am seeing now I would have called "boring" when I was in BPD Land, or "predictable". Now I just call that comforting. Keep looking for the good guy!

[MaybeSo]

Thanks Topknot!

[livednlearned]

When we meet "boring" people, I think it helps to date them 3-4 times before deciding they aren't for us. I thought my new b/f was boring, but it turns out he has a lot of the qualities I was looking for, plus some new ones I adore.