Setting Boundaries: I Believe My Sister Is Undiagnosed BPD, Mom Doesn't

[uncleidiot]

Setting Boundaries: I Believe My Sister Is Undiagnosed BPD, Mom Doesn't

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I asked my sister to get checked for Borderline Personality Disorder. I want to end the verbal and emotional abuse she aims at me and my wife. Research and counseling led me to believe she may suffer from BPD. So I set a boundary: No contact till she gets tested.

That was more than 2 years ago. We haven’t spoken since.

Every few months I get an earful from our mother. Mom says I have no right to set boundaries or suggest diagnoses. She says I'm no doctor, no father, no boss. She tells me to back down, to be less “dogmatic,” to reach out to my sister again.

Unfortunately my mother uses some of the same abusive language my sister uses. She describes my lifestyle as “highfalutin,” my decisions as “disrespectful,” my approach as that of Hitler’s. (Have to admit, that last one had me dumbfounded.)

I hate to see mom upset. And I don’t want this sibling boundary to sever my maternal relationship.

I’m hanging onto one slim fact: mom and I share the goal of mending this brother-sister bond. We differ widely, though, in that I don’t want to go back to regular contact before my sister investigates BPD. And mom doesn’t even want to consider that possibility.

(In fact, mom calls it “bi-polar” or “multiple personality” disorder, instead of BPD, and argues that her chronically ill daughter “sees enough doctors as is” and that an amputation surgery years ago never would’ve proceeded had my sister been “mentally ill.”)

Does anyone else have experience with this phase of boundary- and relationship-building? Has anyone dealt with the temptation to re-open relations with an undiagnosed BPD, maybe just sending birthday cards, to keep the rest of the family off your back?

(Not that it would; the first year I sent cards, despite my no-contact rule, and still got grief from mom. Shame on me.)

The rest of my story, for additional insight and context:

For 20 years, since college, I've reached out to my younger sister. She has diabetes, lupus, eating disorders, an amputated foot. Though we live thousands of miles apart, I've lent support. Visited when I could. Invited her to my home. Called, emailed, texted. Sent gifts, cards, cash, ideas, advice. Volunteered with a foundation seeking a cure for her diabetes. Offered a place to live when she was running out of options elsewhere.

I may not come across as the warmest, most emotional guy, but I care for her and want to see her happy and successful.

Nearly all that time, on and off, I've been the object of her scorn. She says I’m insensitive toward her and her ailments. That I can’t understand, won’t understand, because I’m "healthy." Because my life, unlike hers, is “easy.” Because my support for her is self-serving and "intellectual.”

More clues:

1. Emails with great details of my past crimes, starting from when we were teenagers (during the first Reagan Administration).

2. Perceived harms extending to insensitivities from my wife (whom my sister calls a certain “c” word).

3. Family get-togethers 2 or 3 times a year, usually at holidays, where my sister recalls a past event in great detail, claiming only she remembers it accurately. Any other version of the event, like my own, is dismissed. (Eventually, through repetition, everyone else shares her version.)

4. Sudden email or text “grenades,” as I’ve come to call them, accusing me and my wife of new crimes. These usually follow an otherwise pleasant family get-together, and include everything from wearing shoes on her new carpet to being hopelessly out-of-touch with a newly-diagnosed ailment. (The underlying sin is often failure to ask the right questions in the right way at the right time.)

5. Elaborate pretense of “getting along.” Requests from my sister, for example, to split the cost of a gift for mom, so we can demonstrate sibling togetherness.

6. Persistent fallback on diseases and ailments to explain her behavior and attitudes.

I could write a lot more, but this should give you all the gist of my situation. I’m happy to dig deeper and answer questions if you think it’ll help!

[Blazing Star]

Hi Uncleidiot,



Sorry to hear about your relationship with your sister, you obviously care for her, but it is good to hear that you also care for your own mental health and your wife and have protected yourselves from the abuse as much as you can.

And you are in the right place to get some guidance and support in how you progress (or not) with the relationship!

You are asking about how to keep a bit of peace in the family, in particular with your mother.

Do you think there is any compromise possible? (eg If we assume that your sister won't explore BPD, what, if any, level of contact do you think you are able to maintain with her to appease your mom).

We look forward to hearing from you.

Love Blazing Star

[southernsis]

Hi Uncleidiot,

I wish I had some words of wisdom for you. I am in a similar situation. I feel like I could have written your "Clues" list myself. I have been NC with my uBPD sis for a few months now. All has been calm, but I got the email and text "grenades" this morning. I have explained to my mom that while she would like us all to get along, it is "rather unfortunate" that the reality is that it is best for us all to take a break now.

I hope that you are able to find some guidance and support here. I know that I am finding it, but getting to "peace" is a work in progress.

[GeekyGirl]

Hi uncleidiot,

Welcome!  Hi! I'm so sorry that you're going through this. It's very hard when your relationship with your sister affects other relationships, and from what you've written, I can tell that this has been tough for you. It's understandable that you want relationships with your sister and mother and it's very healthy to set boundaries.

Assuming that your sister hasn't gotten help, what sort of relationship do you want with her?

What kind of relationship do you think you'll have with your mother if you don't reconcile with your sister?

There are some good tools here that I think would help you in dealing with both your mother and sister. It's really important to ensure that you validate their feelings, even if you don't agree with them. Boundaries are also good, and you need to be prepared to uphold them and be consistent with them.

You've come to the right place. All of us have relationships with people with BPD and know how hard it can be to maintain those relationships. 

-GG

[Esperança_Hope]

Hi, Uncleidiot


I am very new here and am learning a lot. I am the daughter of a uBPDM (died in 2007) and i deal with a very delicate situation with my oldest DS 31

Your post like that of Southernsis moved me. It is very painful to try to preserve a hostile contact when the person who is hostile is a brother / sister.

You tried with great effort to help and at the same time maintain healthy boundaries for your family.


So there are many reasons for you do not  relate back to his sister.

It´s good to be cautious.

Do you think your mother will only be happy if you fix with your sister?


What is doing you to want to get back in touch to your sister is the attachment to your mother?

You see... it´s quite normal that mothers do efforts to glue family together although you tell us your mother tends to justify your sister´s BPD behaviour and this is painful, awful and annoying to you.

I think you have to make choices .   let´s see what else people will sugest.

Take care

Esperança

ps: sorry about my english

[Vivgood]

Sounds like my mom. She prefers to call me "harsh" and "judgmental" rather than "dogmatic", but maybe she will increase her vocabulary.

I went NC with my BPDsis 11 years ago, in response to several years of drug addiction, child abuse and general chaos. My last contact was during the intervention, when i stated that I would have no contact until BPDsis reached a point in her recovery (from addiction or BPD or any other of her dxs) where she acknowledges her actions/choices/behavior and exhibits genuine remorse. Never gonna happen. My parents (my mom, really, my dad just does whatever she says) have gone back and forth about her diagnoses, but whether they are in "she has it" mode or "she's fine" mode... .I'm the one responsible. They do not hold BPDsis accountable for anything she does. It is what it is. They're pushing 80.

We moved 2K miles away 5 years ago, so it makes it easier. We fly up 1x-2x/year, stay in a hotel near my parents house, take them for dinner, visit with them a bit, visit my other sister a bit, then fly home. Duty done. We get a car so that if BPDsis shows up unannounced we can politely take our leave. I do not expect mom to change her relationship with BPDsis. I want contact with my parents as they age, but I won't participate ever again in the high drama so this works well. My mom STILL hasn't given up on cajoling, manipulating or shaming me into "being the bigger person", but its become pretty mild and easy to shine it on  after all this time. I understand that she isn't doing it because its healthy or safe... .she's doing because she's 80 and wants someone reliable to take care of BPDsis when she is gone. I don't fault her for that even if I'm not interested in the job!

When we lived closer, WE were the Thanksgiving family, so everybody came to our house (and after the intervention,  BPDsis did not) . Mom's house was Xmas house, so we did our own Xmas at home, then later or next day dropped by their house for a fairly quick visit. Now, DH's sister and our kids with their SOs, and DH's elderly aunt/uncle come to Tgiving, and Xmas is just our 5 as it has always been, we just don't go to Mom's anymore later. The longer you do these things and make your own traditions, the easier it is.

For me personally, I lost "my sister" a long time ago. I grieved and was upset, then I started to heal. NC was part of that healing, and now that my family (DH&3 kids) has a happy, healthy life, I won't go backwards and take my old place in the psychodrama. I do not feel bad or guilty or sad about it anymore.

Like yours, my sister has multiple comorbidities- BPD, addiction, Body Dysmorphic Disorder, Eating Disorder, and she claims to have a chronic pain disorder the identity of which changes every time she surfs the 'net. Oh, and Reynauds Disease. 


vivgood

[GreenMango]

Uncle having boundaries is imperative. It sounds like there is a lot if conflict -family wide- being generated from this.  

Many of us come here thinking the diagnosis will be the answer.  Unfortunately it often isn't.  It's the commitment to the appropriate therapy and us working on not being enablers or playing into the dysfunction because it makes things worse.

Many therapist are reluctant to give the diagnosis for many reasons, patient sensitivity, high likelihood they will quit therapy, insurance, etc.  They focus on behavior.  As family we can focus on behavior too and boundaries like you started to do.

It looks like right now the most pressing issue is with your mom.  You, your mom, and your sister are caught in a Karpman triangle (persecutors, rescuers, victims) dynamic.  This causes conflict.  It may help to pull out of this with your mom and like Geekygirl suggests some validation with your mom while holding firm to your boundaries while you sort through which way to go.

It's hard but it can get easier.

Have you read much on BPD behavior?

[sodonewiththis]

Hi Uncleidiot,

I also threatened to go no contact with my sister until she got therapy. Both my mother and sister are undiagnosed BPD. I use undiagnosed loosely - their behavior so clearly fits that I don't think they could be anything other than borderline. Anyway, sis did get into therapy, but continued to be openly hostile and abusive to me if I do not meet her needs literally as soon as she has them. I feel very emotionally blackmailed by her.

Your mother's reaction sounds similar to my mom's. My mother has gone so far as to suggested that my sister's problems could have been caused by remembering her own birth, rather than anything that might have happened in the family while we were growing up. My mom will grasp at any straw to avoid responsibility. She will also try to get people to put up with anything from my sister. She has told me she's scared that sis will end up all alone, and its a real possibility. She has pushed just about everyone out of her life with her hostility (all done in the name of being "honest".

Clearly, I don't have a whole lot of answers - I'm new to this website myself. But may I ask you - do you want to have a relationship with your sister? If she was tested and you found out she was definitely borderline, but she didn't change her behavior, would you still want a relationship? Do you feel like the quality of your relationship with your mom hinges on continued contact with your sister?

I had assumed that my sister's behavior would change with therapy, or possibly just time and maturity would calm her a bit. I've found that therapy gave her a new vocabulary of accusations to sling at people and time hasn't changed her one bit. For myself, I've decided that I have to accept that she is not going to change.

I've found it comforting to know that there are many, many people who have similar stories and understand how difficult this is. I wish you the best in dealing with your situation.

[waverider]

Whether someone is diagnosed or not makes them no different. In fact To officially tell someone they have a defective personality and all the dramas in their life are because of them, AND then tell them there  is no quick fix can be devastating.

A pwBPD has low levels of self worth, commitment and responsibility by nature of the disorder and makes it even harder, so they can be even worse post diagnosis, With treatment IF they can commit to it brings these demons that have been buried to the surface, so things can get even worse, before eventually getting better. If it gets so bad they may quit therapy before the demons have been expunged, but after they have been brought to the fore, will leave them in a state far worse than when they were ignorant in the first place.

I personally dont believe in NC for family members, just very strong personal boundaries. If they can respect your boundaries that is all that matters not whether they get a diagnosis or not, that seems more controlling than caring

[Esperança_Hope]

I personally dont believe in NC for family members, just very strong personal boundaries. If they can respect your boundaries that is all that matters not whether they get a diagnosis or not, that seems more controlling than caring

I´m  really very ignorant about BPD, how to cope with. I´m trying, learning in here, reading etc... I set boundaries to my DS31. And we meet 3/4 times a week to go out for coffe, to the Mass, to talk in the deck´the inn he is living.

And , one of the boundaries settled is he can´t speak too much loud. This is nice to both of us.

What i mean is  that is obviously if pwBPD doesn´t respect my boundaries, so the only way is NC.

I´m learning a lot with all these posts. Thank you all

Esperança

[gregor]

I have two sisters, one BPD and one not.  I am in contact with both and have severe boundary issues with my BPD sibling.  My older sister has very little contact with our other BPD sister.  I can tell you that my continued contact with my BPD sister has not helped her one bit.  Contact with a relative with untreated BPD inevitably leads to a deterioration of the relationship because the person with BPD will blame those closest to her/him for all problems rather than accept responsibility. 

Setting that boundary is hard, but I applaud you for doing it- those boundaries are NOT harmful to the person with BPD- what's harmful is to be allowed to treat others badly and have no consequences.  You're teaching her what is acceptable in the real world, whereas your mother is teaching her that she can treat others poorly and still have the relationship.

[sodonewiththis]

I think if my sister had been able to respect my boundaries in the past, I would have found the relationship much easier to deal with. But isn't that part of the problems that borderlines have in relationships, that they don't really respect others? Maybe that isn't everybody's experience, but it is mine. My sister has no problem with blaming others, venting her anger at people, raging at people, etc. No surprise, this violates my boundaries! And she really doesn't care. And she doesn't take any responsibility. If she is angry, you must have done something wrong to hurt her. If she is sad, again you did it. If you feel hurt or angry, no matter how mildly expressed, about her chewing you out, that is your problem. And I also don't know that having a relationship with her has made much difference or not. I've been a shoulder to cry on, but it lasts only for a short time. Inevitably, I'm not immediately available - I do have a family, school, and a life. Not that I should have to justify not being available 24/7, but I've got other responsibilities. And once she's disappointed, she's sure she's been abandoned, it's because I'm an unfeeling btch, she just knows she never should have trusted me because I'm so unkind and refuses to speak to me for, oh, a year or so at a time. I just don't know that signing up for another cycle of that is helpful to either one of us.

[gregor]

Consider yourself lucky if you can be left alone for a year!  With my sister, if she gets angry she just keeps texting and leaving abusive voicemails.  She just won't give up- it's amazing!  Most people get tired of harassment at some point, but not her.  Last weekend I and my parents had to turn our phones off because of the abusive tirades and voicemails- what does she do?  She called the police and claimed we were abusing her (by ignoring her) and her son (who lives with my parents).  That's what I can't deal with- she doesn't LET you ignore her.  Setting boundaries is hard- if you are able to do it, don't look back.     

[waverider]

The point about NC is to let them know it is because they dont respect your boundaries. That may be a result of BPD. But if you are simply giving the message that you have NC simply because they have BPD, then the blame will be all yours and they will be the victim.

A diagnosis of BPD will see no sudden change in behavior, so plays no part in boundary setting.

[sodonewiththis]

I doubt anybody says "Hey, I hear you're a borderline, I won't talk to you anymore." That wouldn't make any sense. Of course its based on their behavior.

[GreenMango]

Unfortunately part of this disorder is a lack of the ability to properly gauge actions and effect on others.  Self reflection isn't consistent.  Sometimes spelling out in SET (support empathy truth) when enforcing your boundaries helps to communicate without unnecessarily inflamming the victim stance conflict more. 

It all depends on what your limits are.  Knowing those can help light the way on how to proceed.

[sodonewiththis]

Hi GreenMango,

Could you tell me what SET is?

Thanks

[waverider]

I doubt anybody says "Hey, I hear you're a borderline, I won't talk to you anymore." That wouldn't make any sense. Of course its based on their behavior.

Obvious to a non

But not to a pwBPD particularly one in denial, and looking for an excuse to be victimized.

I see this with my partners own family, whos own mother I heard her say get your act together and you can be a part of the family again.  My partner hears "you may as well go away and die quietly, because your not good enough, never have been, and never will be."

Boundaries have to be clear and specific with no room for misinterpretation

[GeekyGirl]

Could you tell me what SET is?

SET is a communications tool: TOOLS: S.E.T. - Support, Empathy and Truth. It's very effective generally when communicating with someone with BPD, although I use it with people without BPD too.

[sodonewiththis]

I would certainly agree that boundaries need to be very specific. Probably not just with borderlines, but with anyone. Labeling people or accusing them of some overall bad trait just starts fights. But I disagree that family members should feel that the blame is all theirs or that the BPD person is being victimized, unless of course they are actually victimizing that person. Things can go both ways. Here's an example that popped into my head. My sister used to stand me up repeatedly. I told her I didn't like it and I expected her to call if she couldn't make it. Her response was "Why can't this just be something that happened instead of something I did?" Well, because it is something that you're doing. I didn't tell her she was rude, didn't call her names or tell her she was irresponsible, just said I didn't like her not showing up and not calling to tell me. The end result was that I stopped agreeing to meet her places. Then of course she feels rejected. So she pushes me into a place of either having to be mistreated by her or to have to back away from her. This is a really minor example, if all she did was stand me up I could deal with it! But my point is, it is really hard to set boundaries with someone who flat out refuses to take responsibility, even if you've said it very clearly, specifically, made your comments just applicable to their behavior, and tried to be as unthreatening and accepting as possible.

[waverider]

But I disagree that family members should feel that the blame is all theirs or that the BPD person is being victimized

You have to differentiate between, reality and the way the pwBPD interprets it. Family members shouldnt feel the blame correct, it is more a case of being clear so it lessons the ability of pwBPD to feel or to lay blame. If they can separate consequences from actions and instead redirect it onto something they cant control, ie having BPD in the first place or just being themselves if they are in denial. They will complete the victimization role and projected all responsibility onto you. Hence see no need to change themselves.


Your boundary re being stood up is good, and it is clearly a boundary that would apply to anyone, without singling anyone out. "You haven't turned up last two times so i'm not arranging rendezvous again until you've proven to be reliable". Done, explained and actioned, dont need to bring BPD into it

A pwBPD may well have a long list of boundary infractions and hence in fact have severely limited the contact by their actions. Those actions need to be clearly identifiable otherwise they will never see the need to change.

Family members going NC will become a contributing factor in worsening the condition, and will degenerate into a tit for tat finger pointing. Of course a pwBPD will have difficulty in accepting their part in this, no one can control that, but as a non it is the right thing to do to make it crystal clear why there is a problem

As you concentrate more on consequences being applied to actions, then issue of diagnosis or not becomes unimportant.

You may have to keep sending a child to their room because they keep trashing things, but you dont send them there because they are a child and you find them difficult. Its much the same.

[Esperança_Hope]

Family members going NC will become a contributing factor in worsening the condition, and will degenerate into a tit for tat finger pointing. Of course a pwBPD will have difficulty in accepting their part in this, no one can control that, but as a non it is the right thing to do to make it crystal clear why there is a problem

I Got it. The problem is if DS31 "matched" with family and therapist that his goal would be not to drink for 3 days and breaks it... .so why not to return to NC if the limit was to keep in touch if he did not drink?

tks

Esperança

[gregor]

Some people are lucky enough to be wired for setting boundaries.  In this respect, I really envy my husband, because he's very good at being able to look objectively at a situation and decide what course of action is appropriate based on what action will produce the result that is best (both for him and for the other person), and he doesn't get all wrought up emotionally just because someone else is irrationally emotional about something.  Somehow I just don't have this hardwired in- it feels so unnatural to do something that will greatly upset someone in the short-term, even if I know it's best in the long-term.  I think with BPD family (because you can't break up with or divorce them), you just get so worn down.  You have to keep re-learning the techniques and every communication has to be thought out in advance so you don't slip up and accidentally set a bad precedent or undo all your previous boundary-setting efforts.  It's exhausting!

[bavaria]

You definitely need to keep your boundaries intact. Ater dealing with a BPD/NPD sister and mother for 50 years, I have finally gotten a clue. I send Christmas and birthday gifts and a nice, newsy letter once a month. I will not meet with them or talk on the phone as it always erupts into some sort of drama on their part. And for heaven's sake get caller ID, it is like the witness protection program for non-BPDs.  When your mother encourages you to continue to be abused by you sister, she does not have your best interests at heart. These people CAN act in a civil manner, and they do with other people. It is a choice. When they refuse to treat you decently, they are sending a clear signal that you don't matter. And that is wrong. Many people in the world have had tough life circumstances and yet they turn out to be productive, kind, good citizens. When we excuse bad behavior, chaos will reign. Take good care of yourself and your wife, and good luck!

[waverider]

You definitely need to keep your boundaries intact. Ater dealing with a BPD/NPD sister and mother for 50 years, I have finally gotten a clue. I send Christmas and birthday gifts and a nice, newsy letter once a month. I will not meet with them or talk on the phone as it always erupts into some sort of drama on their part. And for heaven's sake get caller ID, it is like the witness protection program for non-BPDs.  When your mother encourages you to continue to be abused by you sister, she does not have your best interests at heart. These people CAN act in a civil manner, and they do with other people. It is a choice. When they refuse to treat you decently, they are sending a clear signal that you don't matter. And that is wrong. Many people in the world have had tough life circumstances and yet they turn out to be productive, kind, good citizens. When we excuse bad behavior, chaos will reign. Take good care of yourself and your wife, and good luck!

This is about not allowing yourself to be an easy channel for their anger projections. To rid them selves of anger and blame they cannot handle it themselves and hence have a need to "flush" it through someone else. If they can provoke you to react angrily, you validate their anger by being "alike", they are no longer wrong. At this stage the projection flows on to you. You can often begin behaving irrationally yourself. Often throwing your arms up storming off in  a bad mood, taking their projected anger with you. At this point they put on their wounded victim hat, often finding a third party to pour their poor me victim rewritten version of effects on. So they are now victim, you the  persecutor, and the third party the rescuer. At this stage they are healing, you are wounded, resentment building up about feeling "set up". This results in the classic "splitting" line between you "bad persecutor" and 3rd party "good rescuer".

This often happens between BPD children and parents, causing domestic issues with "split" parents.

Of course now pwBPD has hand balled the anger and starts to cure, they cant understand why the other person is holding a "grudge". This widens the gap further.

So when I say "easy" channel this example shows that to a pwBPD, this can easily mean someone who rises to the conflict rather than one who shrugs and walks away and gives no avenue for projection

[uncleidiot]

Thanks for all your words of encouragement, advice and questions! Here's one I think about often from Blazing Star:

>> Do you think there is any compromise possible?

>> (eg If we assume that your sister won't explore BPD,

>> what, if any, level of contact do you think you are

>> able to maintain with her to appease your mom).

Great question. Since I've cut off communication with my undiagnosed BPD sister, I get into regular and heated arguments with my mom about it. Mom tells me I have no right to "diagnose" my sister with BPD. Mom tells me I need to relent and re-open communication. Mom tells me my sister's behavior isn't explained by BPD, but by her physical pain from from other ailments, like diabetes and lupus.

My thinking is this: Mom might be our final hope. She might be the only one who can get through to my sister. And if I try to appease my mom by re-opening communication with my sister, then they're both off the hook, right? Neither of them need to look into BPD. And I look like I threw a 2-year temper tantrum with no outcome.

It's hard, but in the last year I've actually reduced communication with my sister: No birthday cards, no Christmas presents, no thank-you notes. This really bothers my mom. I got an earful about not wishing my sister happy birthday last year.

I just hope all this will bother her enough to do something about it.

Hi Uncleidiot,



Sorry to hear about your relationship with your sister, you obviously care for her, but it is good to hear that you also care for your own mental health and your wife and have protected yourselves from the abuse as much as you can.

And you are in the right place to get some guidance and support in how you progress (or not) with the relationship!

You are asking about how to keep a bit of peace in the family, in particular with your mother.

Do you think there is any compromise possible? (eg If we assume that your sister won't explore BPD, what, if any, level of contact do you think you are able to maintain with her to appease your mom).

We look forward to hearing from you.

Love Blazing Star

[Kit kart]

Wow, I'm so glad I found this message board! Just knowing that others struggle with loved ones, is a huge relief to me. I am the youngest of 3 girls in my family. My middle sister, I will call her Jan, is recently diagnosed with BPD. As children and growing up, I would consider us fairly close. We always seemed to have a lot to talk about. In recent years, however, our relationship has become very strained. Both Jan and Marcia (oldest of us 3 sisters) are single. Marcia was previously married and has 3 grown children. Jan has never married. I

am married with two teenagers. Previously, I was the peacemaker among the three of us. Jan and Marcia fought a lot and I was called on to play referee. A few months ago, things became physical between them. I told Marcia to leave or to kick Jan out of her apartment even though Jan relied on Marcia financially. I also suggested that Jan go to an area shelter. As of a few months ago, they no longer live together, but Marcia pays all of Jan's bills. She's also trying to help get Jan on disability. Often, Jan will send me nasty text messages or voice mails about how I'm a terrible sister for not helping her, etc. Marcia and I sometimes talk on the phone, but we usually disagree about what should be done with Jan. I wish for the close relationship I once had with Jan, but at this time I can't even talk to her, let alone visit her. I'm sad about it, but I feel it's best for myself and my family that I keep my distance. Any insight from others who have similar experiences, would be greatly appreciated.