Let me get this right (if I can)...

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I'm still trying to make sense of my devaluation and discard.

If I'd have been everything that my ex wanted me to be: loving, caring, supportive, etc... .

Would the devaluation and eventual discard still happened?

Yes, I'm thinking (yet again) of the new Mr X in her life and how she thinks he is totally wonderful and madly in love with.

What I want to know (for sure - is that possible?) is will the devaluation and discard happen with him as well.

I suppose I'm asking a more direct question than one that I've intimated in past posts. Is it possible to give a definitive answer?

Yes, I'm jealous of him. I'm sad that he can offer her so much more than I was ever able to. It just seems that whilst I feel like my whole world has caved in, she goes from strength to strength.

Whatever we had, is now (I feel) meaningless to her and whilst I spend most of my days thinking about her, she (probably) has forgotten that I even existed.

It's like I can't accept that she has BPD/NPD/PTSD, and that the relationship failed because of what I did or didn't do.

I look back to times when I could have acted in different ways and we'd still be together.

I miss her in so many different ways, but don't miss the walking on eggshells, or the pain of wondering how she would act from day to day.

If only she'd shown empathy and compassion when I really needed it.

Gawd, if only... .  :'(

[houseofswans]

I'm still trying to make sense of my devaluation and discard.

If I'd have been everything that my ex wanted me to be: loving, caring, supportive, etc... .

Would the devaluation and eventual discard still happened?

Yes, I'm thinking (yet again) of the new Mr X in her life and how she thinks he is totally wonderful and madly in love with.

What I want to know (for sure - is that possible?) is will the devaluation and discard happen with him as well.

I suppose I'm asking a more direct question than one that I've intimated in past posts. Is it possible to give a definitive answer?

Yes, I'm jealous of him. I'm sad that he can offer her so much more than I was ever able to. It just seems that whilst I feel like my whole world has caved in, she goes from strength to strength.

Whatever we had, is now (I feel) meaningless to her and whilst I spend most of my days thinking about her, she (probably) has forgotten that I even existed.

It's like I can't accept that she has BPD/NPD/PTSD, and that the relationship failed because of what I did or didn't do.

I look back to times when I could have acted in different ways and we'd still be together.

I miss her in so many different ways, but don't miss the walking on eggshells, or the pain of wondering how she would act from day to day.

If only she'd shown empathy and compassion when I really needed it.

Gawd, if only... .  :'(

[Turkish]

I'm still trying to make sense of my devaluation and discard.

If I'd have been everything that my ex wanted me to be: loving, caring, supportive, etc... .

Would the devaluation and eventual discard still happened?

Yes, I'm thinking (yet again) of the new Mr X in her life and how she thinks he is totally wonderful and madly in love with.

What I want to know (for sure - is that possible?) is will the devaluation and discard happen with him as well.

I suppose I'm asking a more direct question than one that I've intimated in past posts. Is it possible to give a definitive answer?

Yes, I'm jealous of him. I'm sad that he can offer her so much more than I was ever able to. It just seems that whilst I feel like my whole world has caved in, she goes from strength to strength.

Whatever we had, is now (I feel) meaningless to her and whilst I spend most of my days thinking about her, she (probably) has forgotten that I even existed.

It's like I can't accept that she has BPD/NPD/PTSD, and that the relationship failed because of what I did or didn't do.

I look back to times when I could have acted in different ways and we'd still be together.

I miss her in so many different ways, but don't miss the walking on eggshells, or the pain of wondering how she would act from day to day.

If only she'd shown empathy and compassion when I really needed it.

Gawd, if only... .  :'(

I've been feeling much like you. Today, I am better. Tonight or tomorrow, I may cycle back.

Empathy, compassion and mercy are qualities I started to feel were missing in my BPDex as much as a year or so before things started really going downhill, which was a year ago.

I hated myself for thinking that.

Her discard speech to me (one of many, though I have stopped us from talking about those things) was that I was so wonderful in 95% of all ways a woman could want in a partner. This is a bit of idealization, but pretty much everybody tells me I'm 100%, so I believe it.

She wanted, however, to be in "teen romance" mode forever. We were now and then, but that isn't a mature relationship. If that is what she felt in her mind it was based on,  then it wasn't a healthy relationship.

She came to me earlier in the year, telling me SHE was unhappy, and here was x, y, z I could do about it. I could do... .

If I did, it would have just postponed my discarding. Then maybe hurt more, and I would have suffered longer. She suffers all of the time, in-between "medicating."

It's like filling a bucket with holes in the bottom. It's never enough. There would have been increasing demands. The fact that a lot of us here tried for so long to do it says more about us and how we need to change. 

Mercy is not tolerating your partners idiosyncrasies (and then resenting him for that).

Kindness is not periodic emotional and verbal abuse, apologizing now and then, but continuing to do so.

Empathy is not... .well, most are incapable of true empathy.

Sure, I did things wrong even in a healthy relationship, but most of them in my mind were in reaction to what she was doing. Which triggered her more. It was the same with those before me, and it will be the same for those after me. What you see on the outside with her new paramour may be true in the beginning, but you know from personal experience what is going on behind closed doors. I am kind, stable, constant, reliable, trustworthy and loyal, emotionally regulated, and well-adjusted, especially given my childhood (I have a LT friend who tells me this periodically, just to remind me, and I appreciate it). She is none of those things. So why was I attracted to her in the first place? Oh, the mirroring... .but after not to short a while, i knew something was off. I almost came to the BPD conclusion the end of year 1. Two kids and six years later, here I am.

If he stays longer than you, then you can safely conclude that he has a lower level of self esteem, tolerates devaluation and abuse, or could also have more of a Caretaker/Fixer personality than you do (if you do... .most of us in LT relationships with them seem to have some form of it).

I have finally been telling and hinting to people outside what went on with us. Some close to us saw things now and then, but I presented the happy face to the world. You can rest assured that after a while, what you see with her and him is just a facade.

I validate your jealousy. I am obviously teed off and jealous of the guy she went out with at night while I was staying home with our kids (some mom!). But I already feel jealousy towards anyone in the future. I will confront that when I get there.

[Turkish]

What I want to know (for sure - is that possible?) is will the devaluation and discard happen with him as well.

I suppose I'm asking a more direct question than one that I've intimated in past posts. Is it possible to give a definitive answer?

My short answer to this, despite what I said in my other post, is possibly not, and you need to accept that.

But you can, however, accept that behind closed doors he is living hell.

[goldylamont]

If I'd have been everything that my ex wanted me to be: loving, caring, supportive, etc... .

Would the devaluation and eventual discard still happened?

well, weren't you loving, caring and supportive? were you unsupportive, unloving and could care less about her? i doubt this, but you have to ask yourself these questions.

to answer your question though, YES. the discard would have happened in any case--that's my opinion at least.

for evaluating issues about yourself in relationships, please do yourself a favor and look to other r/s you've had in the past to see if you can find relevant things that you'd like to improve upon. the gaslighting that goes on in a r/s with someone wBPD can have you blaming yourself for things that aren't an issue for you under normal circumstances (or even at all).

What I want to know (for sure - is that possible?) is will the devaluation and discard happen with him as well.

Yes. Their r/s may last longer, or it may be shorter. But it will happen. Be patient grasshopper 

Yes, I'm jealous of him. I'm sad that he can offer her so much more than I was ever able to. It just seems that whilst I feel like my whole world has caved in, she goes from strength to strength.

Normal to feel this way. It's possible she's parading around to help make you feel this way. But, don't do it--don't do this to yourself. No one can offer her what she truly needs other than herself. You will find yourself feeling sorry for her next "victim" and perhaps even an odd kind of kindship/brotherhood once everything plays out.

Whatever we had, is now (I feel) meaningless to her and whilst I spend most of my days thinking about her, she (probably) has forgotten that I even existed.

This could be true. Or she could be hurting over you also. Impossible to really tell. And, it sucks I know, but this unfortunately are the cards we've been dealt. We are here for you! It.gets.better.over.time 

I look back to times when I could have acted in different ways and we'd still be together.

these are fantasies in your head. again, normal, be kind to yourself i don't want to sound critical--just letting you know that this is not the truth. if she truly is ill in this way, perhaps there's ways you could have acted better to hurt yourself less, but i think it wise to let go of any thoughts that there was something you could do to stay together. there's a lot of work you have to do coming up so good to let go of these feelings of inadequacy--there's nothing you could do. but, there's a lot you can do now.

best wishes and hang in there!

[winston72]

HoS!  Your post is so genuine and heartfelt.  Thank you.  And, sadly (but helpfully!) I could have written it verbatim in the summer of 2011.  Verbatim.  

(I note that Turkish, GoldyLamont have made lengthy posts while I have been typing my post.  I am going to post my and now read yours.  Please accept my apologies if I am redundant or non-responsive to your posts.  I am familiar with your posting and appreciate and respect your thoughts!  I don't want you to think otherwise.)

I suspect some of my fact pattern was a bit more off color or dramatic, but nonetheless very similar.  I will offer some bullet points in summation of that time period.  My ex left me, flew to a Italy actually which was a place I wanted to visit with her, to meet a guy who she had been seeing on the side (more complex, but sufficient for now).  He was younger than me, very successful in a field similar to mine, very rich, very involved as an art collector, my ex is an artist, I am not involved in that world at all.  I had been providing some support for her career, logistically and financially and unbeknownst to me he was doing likewise, but more.  So, in other words, he was younger, richer, more relevant... .better than me in every way!  But, he was a jerk and I was a nice guy.  Nice guy didn't win on this one.  So, in addition to feeling terrible loss of her and the pain of betrayal, I felt inadequate in any and every other way.  

I was loving, caring, supportive... .but he provided so much more!  And they were in his fabulous place in Italy.

I wanted it to fail... .in every way.  

It did.  

You know that nobody can assure you of these outcomes.  I know you know that because of the clarity of thought in your posts.  For me, if someone could have assured me they would fail, well I think my pain at that time would have been less.  Surely it would have.  But, look... .apply your rational mind to this situation... .and I know that part of you is not running the show right now because you are in such pain.  But, really, that relationship has no chance.  She didn't change overnight and that guy is a bad match for her.  They are a great match for using one another.  Conflict, pain, grief ahead for them. And, the nuttiness is that they are in the same field.  I remember some of your original posts and just looked at them again.  That coupling will last as long as the mutual benefits flow.  When the supply is cut off from either one, it will blow up.

She did not want what you had to offer.  Love, compassion, warmth, your willingness to do anything... .that was not as big a pull as a car... .A CAR... .and the career advancement.  So, did this woman make this leap for love, trust and faithfulness?  I don't think so.  

And, I think people would offer a similar view regardless of an awareness of personality disorders.  She is not looking for long term fidelity, so be assured she isn't going to find it with the new guy.

And HoS this is not true.  Not true! "I look back to times when I could have acted in different ways and we'd still be together."  You did everything you could.  She had another agenda.  And that agenda does not include what you probably wanted, which was a close, loving, intimate relationship.

Now, I still feel the same way in many respects as you do... .certainly not as strongly.  In my case, she was with the guy for a while, it blew up, I reconnected with her later that year (stupid me... .now this was late 2011), we tried to make it work for the next 15 months... .it did not work... .NC for about 5 months just communicated with her again over the last month.  So, we were not happy with one another, she was not happy with the other guy, we were not happy on the next round... .I was in anguish in my sense of inadequacy when she was with him and was afraid that all of a sudden she was sane, whole and happy.  She was not.  It ruined it with the next guy... .and ultimately with me again.

And, by the way, the way she and I originally got together was screwed up, the way she got together with the other guy was screwed up, I was screwed up to take her back without dealing with our core issues... .so why would I be surprised that the relationships did not work out!

But I was.  And. I. Still. Miss. Her.  AArrgghh!

But, the issues are within me.  I can find wholeness and happiness within myself.  I am working on it.  I am making progress.  Life is getting better.  Yay!

[fromheeltoheal]

A borderline spin cycle goes from vulnerable seducer to clinger to hater, and it has nothing to do with you or him, you're just in different places in the cycle, and there's nothing you could have done that would make a difference.  Again it's not about you, it's just the way a borderline is wired to make sense of their world.

[alliance]

House, the hardest thing to accept about loving someone with PBD, is that one cannot make sense out of stuff that just doesn't make sense. One just has to accept what the disorder is about and how it plays out.

There is seldom anything we could have done differently that would have resulted in a different outcome. The timing might have been a little different but the outcome would have been the same.

We cant fix the person with BPD. We cant heal them. It is not that we weren't loving enough or strong enough or supportive enough or anything enough. The disorder is nasty and predictable.

As for the new beau... .it is just a matter of time before their head is spinning as well. It is not a question of IF, it is a matter of WHEN.

Being in a small community, I cannot help but run into my ex and her new beau. I know my ex, her behavior, what her behavior means. You know your ex, her behavior, and what it means too.

I can tell you exactly when there is trouble in her current paradise. And, when she is over compensating. And when the new beau is running around like a chicken with its head cut off trying to keep her happy.

It is very sad. But I am so thankful it is not me anymore. Hang in there. It does get easier. Promise.

[fiddlestix]

The big injustice we feel is because WE WERE LOVING, FORGIVING, KIND, SUPPORTIVE... .!  And we still got thrown to the wolves.  Many times my wife told me how she didn't deserve me, how I was the most forgiving... .yada yada yada... .  And I was!  I am no saint, but I really was good to her, never insulted her, usually went her way on things, let her choose the music (so to speak)... .  When I was in a rare bad mood she would worry about it. 

Yet she would tell me I was codependent when I worried about her moods.  For all she "valued my grace and kindness" she once told a friend, "I wish my husband was crabbier more often."  Weird.  I guess she wanted a "bad boy, a more manly man."  LOL  Well, when she left me she shacked up with an ex con, who abused her and went back to jail.  But she devalued him too, even though he was a "bad boy."  He texted me to whine about it before he went to jail (how's that for weirdness?). 

As said above, my ex seemed to want that teen thrill.  She frequented the hook-up websites with 18 year old boys when she was over 40.  And yes, she screwed them.  Sorry; I grew up.  Too bad she didn't.  I wanted to spend my old age with her, but she had other plans.  Now she is with a dude 14 years younger than her... .but I hear they have been fighting. 

I believe your BPD ex will probably continue to devalue and abuse any man she spends a good deal of time with.  Once that honeymoon wears off, he is in for some hurtin'.  I hate to be a downer, but it is true. 

Fiddle

[DragoN]

HoS

It's like I can't accept that she has BPD/NPD/PTSD, and that the relationship failed because of what I did or didn't do.

I look back to times when I could have acted in different ways and we'd still be together.

I miss her in so many different ways, but don't miss the walking on eggshells, or the pain of wondering how she would act from day to day.

Can't add anything more to what the others have written.

We are still "together" under the same roof. Divorce in progress. I don't believe he really wants it, but it is long past time to end this marriage. Even though it has "improved" with the raging etc, etc, etc it's an empty relationship.  Trust, love, gentleness, compassion, intimacy the desire to take care of each other is not there.  :'(  I don't have a friend, lover, life partner or husband. I have a husband on paper.

Maybe, had I done things differently in the beginning? It could be better? But I don't believe so. BPD seems to get worse with time in some regards if left untreated. If you read the old timers posts here, that is the best answer. I will take notes from their pages in the Book of Life and apply the lessons to my own.

I miss her in so many different ways, but don't miss the walking on eggshells, or the pain of wondering how she would act from day to day.

If only she'd shown empathy and compassion when I really needed it.

Me too. He is here, but there are no egg shells. He explodes less often as he cannot draw me into his drama and he also no longer feels the same towards me. Lack of enmeshment and he is on his own. If he or had she shown that capacity towards us? Would we even be here? I think not.

Two ships passing in the night. It is what it is. It's not very pleasant. I feel badly for him too. He also wants to be loved.

*note to self- back off on the empathy or I will be pulled back into the vortex. Which would be insane, given all the crap that has been done to me and that which I allowed prior to learning about BPD. This is so incredibly hard and also why NC is so important. Time to work on yourself and fix the internal problems or weaknesses we have. 

[houseofswans]

My friends,

So many wonderful and insightful responses to my quandary

Thank you  

Turkish - I strongly suspect that he has a high level of self-esteem (unlike myself). I don't know what makes me think that, other than what I know about him and his life. I may be wrong but I doubt it.

Goldylamont - Yes, I was loving, caring and supportive. And that what riled me, not having those things returned. I'm glad you confirmed that the devaluation and discard will happen as well. Grasshopper will be patient... .

I agree that it is pointless fretting about what I could or couldn't have done to make things better. The thing is I did what I did, regardless of circumstances, not thinking about the future and worrying that I'd live to regret the actions.

Winston - so nice to know that you and I feel similar things, and how kind of you to re-read my posts and are familiar with my back story. Interesting what you said about the relationship lasting as long as the mutual benefits flow. That was what I may or may not have intimated in another post - wondering if my ex would start the devaluation with the new Mr X and get as much financial and networking support, contacts, publishing deal, etc knowing that he would be (in a matter of time) be shown the door when she'd got exactly what she will have wanted from him?

heeltoheal - the spin cycle analogy is good - vulnerable seducer to clinger to hater. The wheel turns ever on... .

Alliance - thanks for confirming what others have said. "It's not a question of if, but a question of when... ." I like that, it gives me an odd sense of hope.

Fiddlestix - Yes, it is a big injustice. We were loving, forgiving, kind and supportive! And you are not being a downer on me saying that once the honeymoon is over, he'll be in for some hurting. That makes me happy (yes, I've got my wishing them the worst head on today)

H20 - I can't even begin to imagine what being in the same house but apart can feel like. I feel so sorry that you have to put up with such a horrible situation.

[lockedout]

The devaluation would have happened no matter what - just a matter of when. She does not have the capacity for empathy and no amount of care and support would have gotten you that. It's sad that whatever happened to make them incapable of empathy and unable to receive love and affection never gave them a chance.

"... .he'll be in for some hurting. That makes me happy (yes, I've got my wishing them the worst head on today)". This will not heal you. It may just be a part of the anger part of the grieving process but don't stay there. Anger is OK in moderation but it will do a just as much damage in the long term as if you stayed in the toxic relationship.

You may be jealous of this Mr. X and he does not have more self-esteem than you do. Yours bottomed out when you stopped denying that you were in a doomed relationship. If her cycle is continuing, his is artificially boosted by the mirroring which is on borrowed time. Just because you think he has more self-esteem doesn't mean you don't it just needed to be rebuilt. Most importantly, just because she devalued you, doesn't mean that you don't have value. You have a lot of it that just needs to be rediscovered.

[houseofswans]

The devaluation would have happened no matter what - just a matter of when. She does not have the capacity for empathy and no amount of care and support would have gotten you that. It's sad that whatever happened to make them incapable of empathy and unable to receive love and affection never gave them a chance.

"... .he'll be in for some hurting. That makes me happy (yes, I've got my wishing them the worst head on today)". This will not heal you. It may just be a part of the anger part of the grieving process but don't stay there. Anger is OK in moderation but it will do a just as much damage in the long term as if you stayed in the toxic relationship.

You may be jealous of this Mr. X and he does not have more self-esteem than you do. Yours bottomed out when you stopped denying that you were in a doomed relationship. If her cycle is continuing, his is artificially boosted by the mirroring which is on borrowed time. Just because you think he has more self-esteem doesn't mean you don't it just needed to be rebuilt. Most importantly, just because she devalued you, doesn't mean that you don't have value. You have a lot of it that just needs to be rediscovered.

Thanks, my friend... .