Idealization and devaluation. Is there anything in between?

[Border_Lover]

Hello, I was wondering if there was anything in between idealization and devaluation. If there is, is their perception of you normal? Or could it be any shade between the two?

My uBPDgf of four years and I figured out she most likely has BPD. We have talked a lot about it and she is very open to exploring herself. Her idealization and devaluation phases don't seem as extreme as most of the stories I hear on here. For the first time ever, the other day she opened up and shared things with me during a period in which she was cold to me. Which I am guessing is devaluation, but I am not sure. She explained that in a lot of ways I am holding her back, am unhealthy for her, and make her feel weak. She says I am stuck in the past and need to move forward. Recently she told me a lot of the things she had lied about from early in our relationship, and I am still processing these, and trying to make things right in my head, so I do talk to her a good amount about the past, for me to get over the lies. She said I am stuck in the past, and she doesn't feel like she can wait around for me. So, what does this sound like?

Also, are Idealization/Devaluation, Push/Pull, Black/White, and Love/Hate all kind of synonymous with each other? And is there anything in between, or is it only one or the other with this disorder?

Thank you for your time everyone.

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[waverider]

Everyone is an individual, and so is every relationship. So most of the characteristics about BPD can occur to different levels at different times. Sometimes we over analyze and try to categorize every aspect of behavior rather than just accepting some of it and take it as face value.

Typically this means we become cynical and cannot take a compliment, not really believing it. Often what is said is meant exactly as is, it is just that that particular view often changes, so we tend to dismiss it as not real eg idealized.

Your partner may be idealistic or devaluating about somethings, but then have surprising inside about others. Black and white behavior shows up more around issues that can be perceived as "threatening" to them.

As far as fibbing and twisting the truth is concerned, by confessing up to it she will feel as though she has cleared the slate, this does not mean she has changed her ways and will not continued to do this. The truth as you may see it is not as set in concrete in her mind. Often she will say whatever it takes that best expresses how she feels with little qualm about the real truth.

The short answer is that you can experience anything, There are common traits, but few golden rules.

[Stamp]

The truth as you may see it is not as set in concrete in her mind. Often she will say whatever it takes that best expresses how she feels with little qualm about the real truth.

This really hits home.  I know my partner does not think of herself as a liar, but her idea of the truth is far from mine

[waverider]

Its like impressionism in art. Reality and details are not important, as long as the emotion and feeling is conveyed, all else can be blurred. This is not seen as manipulation or lying simply the most accurate way of saying what they feel.

[usernamed]

Hello, I was wondering if there was anything in between idealization and devaluation. If there is, is their perception of you normal? Or could it be any shade between the two?

My uBPDgf of four years and I figured out she most likely has BPD. We have talked a lot about it and she is very open to exploring herself. Her idealization and devaluation phases don't seem as extreme as most of the stories I hear on here. For the first time ever, the other day she opened up and shared things with me during a period in which she was cold to me. Which I am guessing is devaluation, but I am not sure. She explained that in a lot of ways I am holding her back, am unhealthy for her, and make her feel weak. She says I am stuck in the past and need to move forward. Recently she told me a lot of the things she had lied about from early in our relationship, and I am still processing these, and trying to make things right in my head, so I do talk to her a good amount about the past, for me to get over the lies. She said I am stuck in the past, and she doesn't feel like she can wait around for me. So, what does this sound like?

Also, are Idealization/Devaluation, Push/Pull, Black/White, and Love/Hate all kind of synonymous with each other? And is there anything in between, or is it only one or the other with this disorder?

Thank you for your time everyone.

Prefacing my comments here by saying I'm not a psychologist and I'm still learning myself how to improve my relationship with my pwBPD.

I think the important thing to keep in mind is that BPD sufferers are often very intelligent and her criticisms of you there ("unhealthy for her", "make her feel weak" don't have to be false or entirely antagonistic to still be part of the devaluation process. Even when a pwBPD is dysregulated and not entirely in control of their actions and emotions they can still make extremely cutting and painful remarks because of your shared history. In that sense it sounds like she is engaging in devaluation, even if she's not saying "I hate you" explicitly.

My own pwBPD does not engage in behavior that I consider to be strictly idealization / devaluation either, but the general emotional pattern holds up.  Part of what makes it so difficult to deal with is that my pwBPD is very astute and knows exactly what to say to make me question my own behavior.

[Ironmanrises]

Is there anything in between... .?

No.

At least for me there wasn't... .

In both rounds.

Idealization... .

Day of trigger into Devaluation... .

Devaluation... .

Discard.

Both times.

[Border_Lover]

Black and white behavior shows up more around issues that can be perceived as "threatening" to them.

Thank you for the insight, and especially for this. Now that I think about it, it is entirely true, and will help me very much in the future.

Prefacing my comments here by saying I'm not a psychologist and I'm still learning myself how to improve my relationship with my pwBPD.

I think the important thing to keep in mind is that BPD sufferers are often very intelligent and her criticisms of you there ("unhealthy for her", "make her feel weak" don't have to be false or entirely antagonistic to still be part of the devaluation process. Even when a pwBPD is dysregulated and not entirely in control of their actions and emotions they can still make extremely cutting and painful remarks because of your shared history. In that sense it sounds like she is engaging in devaluation, even if she's not saying "I hate you" explicitly.

My own pwBPD does not engage in behavior that I consider to be strictly idealization / devaluation either, but the general emotional pattern holds up.  Part of what makes it so difficult to deal with is that my pwBPD is very astute and knows exactly what to say to make me question my own behavior.

Thank you for the insight. I find it very difficult because I only notice my uBPDgf devaluing or idealizing me about 5% of the time. The other 95% of the time, I can not tell one way or the other, and what I don't like about that is depending on how she is feeling, what I am saying can come across to her as good or bad, but I don't usually find of which way she took it until weeks later, if ever. Even during her worst rages, she has only ever said she hated me once, and it was after she had way too much alcohol. Also she has never threatened to leave me, which is good IMO. I like to think her ups and downs are more mild then average, and that she will have an easier recovery, but I hope I am not fooling myself and she is just more subtle about it all.

I have read that (some?) pwBPD are capable of staying with someone they truly hate, and this terrifies me. I would never want to stay with someone who did not want to be with me, but was only doing so because they had no where else to go and had abandonment fears, but I suppose that could also happen with desperate people without BPD. When she told me she feels that I am unhealthy for her, and I'm not worth waiting around for, it really hurt my feelings badly. I know she is very unhealthy for me, and I have been through three extremely difficult years, and am willing to stick around for more while she gets the therapy she needs, but she is not willing to give me the few weeks I need to get over her past lies, because it is unhealthy for her! It just really hurts.  The other day during a calm conversation, she told me that she thinks the sadness that I feel during my most painful days is comparable to her happiest days.  It's just so difficult sometimes, her lack of empathy, especially during my most trying times feels as cold as ice.

I'm glad to have a place to finally vent some. I've been keeping everything to myself for four years now. I appreciate anyone who has taken the time to read what I typed. I would love to hear from anyone who has anything to say. Thank you.