Forgive your BPDex?

[Regular_Joe]

There have been many posts on this board by people struggling with the idea of forgiving their BPDex. (Search by keyword or browse my posts). Here's some persuasive data that might help convince you it's in your own best interest to do it:

www.pbs.org/thisemotionallife/topic/forgiveness/understanding-forgiveness

Also check out Soulpancake's YouTube video The Science of Happiness: Forgive and Forget.

Cheers!

[Turkish]

IMO, Forgiveness cannot be performed without remorse and repentance. It doesn't logically make sense. We can just move ourselves on and not dwell on it. Mine finally showed some type of remorse, but I know it is centered around her guilt... .not around me. I did accept that measure of it verbally to her. That is more than a lot of us get, so I am lucky.

But I will never forget. I will never let her recycle me (I already let that happen the first year, before we had kids).

[Bananas]

I forgive my ex.  He is mentally ill and I don't think he knows any other way to be.  He will most likely never apologize or show any remorse for any of his bad behavior, because it isn't bad behavior in his eyes.  He is like a little boy.  A very sad little boy.  My expectations of him are slightly below that of my five year old nephew. 

I will never forget.  And I learned some huge, life changing lessons from him for which I am very grateful. 

[fromheeltoheal]

I will never forget.  And I learned some huge, life changing lessons from him for which I am very grateful.  

Yes!  And remembering forgiveness is for us.  The only part left of my borderline ex is memories in my head, and if I carry around negative ones, she's living in my head rent-free and shtting all over the place.  I've been choosing to consciously forgive her, which I do by deciding to envelope her in the massive amount of love I'm capable of, in my head mind you, which has the byproduct of containing all her crap, it can't get out.  Then, if some of that rage I've felt towards her since I left peeks it's little head into my world I imagine her pint-sized with a really big head, running around spewing her silliness with cartoon music playing.  These mental exercises, silly as they may sound, have a profound effect on how I feel about her when I'm done; I'm literally reprogramming my brain, modifying bad code.  I will never forget either, but I now see her as a sick person not, a mean or bad one.

[MyKryptonite]

I am a huge proponent of forgiveness. To me forgiveness has nothing to do with the other person and everything to do with me. My ex doesn't have to ask for my forgiveness, for me to forgive her. In fact if I were to hear from her again, I do not expect that she will ever ask forgiveness because in her mind I am the one who is wrong. None of that matters though because for me to forgive her also allows me to forgive myself for allowing the harm that was done to me. Please be aware, at no point in this post did I say ANYTHING about forgetting.

[Mutt]

In my  I forgive her but I won't tell her, nor do I want to hear it from her. I won't tell her because it doesn't matter and whatever she says, there is no remorse or empathy. I was with her for 8 years and iirc, she apologized two times and neither times did it sound sincere.

I will never forget. It's better that we part ways and only deal with what we had together... .the kids.

I never want to be with another mentally ill person like her in my life again.

[Perfidy]

For me... .Forgiving holds little comfort. I will not let this person be a part of my life again. I have established no contact and intend to keep it that way for the rest of my natural life. The seven years of madness were enough for me. I still think about her way too much. A varied assortment of feelings ranging from compassion to loathing. Indifference is in there too but not as much as I would like. I have no reason to believe that I will ever want her to be my friend. The unacceptable attacks and put downs aren't the actions of anybody that I would ever call a friend. An epic betrayal pretty much sealed the deal. She contacted me a couple weeks ago to tell me how great she is doing but I didn't respond. I plugged that hole up too and any further contact from her will me un-met with me. I just want to forget. When I'm indifferent to the fullest then forgiveness is moot. I don't want to be her friend... She treated me as an object not a person. I don't want to be her enemy... .I am a good person not an object. It has been over ten months since I became aware of my status and her last contact to me was like a couple or three weeks ago. I haven't tried to contact her in many months. If she is so happy with her new babysitter and her new life why do I need to be dragged back into her crap? I don't. In a way just accepting and moving on is forgiveness enough. I'm getting there.

[Mutt]

The unacceptable attacks and put downs aren't the actions of anybody that I would ever call a friend.

This.

None of my friends have ever come close to treating me the way that that my ex has. Friends don't treat friends like that.

If she is so happy with her new babysitter and her new life why do I need to be dragged back into her crap? I don't.

People that move on, don't really need to tell people that they've moved on, because well... .they've moved on!

[Turkish]

For me... .Forgiving holds little comfort. I will not let this person be a part of my life again. I have established no contact and intend to keep it that way for the rest of my natural life. The seven years of madness were enough for me. I still think about her way too much. A varied assortment of feelings ranging from compassion to loathing. Indifference is in there too but not as much as I would like. I have no reason to believe that I will ever want her to be my friend. The unacceptable attacks and put downs aren't the actions of anybody that I would ever call a friend. An epic betrayal pretty much sealed the deal. She contacted me a couple weeks ago to tell me how great she is doing but I didn't respond. I plugged that hole up too and any further contact from her will me un-met with me. I just want to forget. When I'm indifferent to the fullest then forgiveness is moot. I don't want to be her friend... She treated me as an object not a person. I don't want to be her enemy... .I am a good person not an object. It has been over ten months since I became aware of my status and her last contact to me was like a couple or three weeks ago. I haven't tried to contact her in many months. If she is so happy with her new babysitter and her new life why do I need to be dragged back into her crap? I don't. In a way just accepting and moving on is forgiveness enough. I'm getting there.

In bold. My experience, too. While I was home at night taking care of our children. I mistakenly gave mine too much freedom to "make her happy." Oops.

My T recently told me that a friend is someone with whom you entrust the building of your character. Is my X like that? No way. We haven't had the discussion yet, despite her saying a month ago, "I hope we can still be friends." Are you kidding me? She still hasn't realized that I blocked her on FB. Seems the first thing to do, but I will always have my X in my life as the mother of our children. My curse... .There are some old threads on this site on this very topic, with some good advice and views.

[Lady31]

"Then, if some of that rage I've felt towards her since I left peeks it's little head into my world I imagine her pint-sized with a really big head, running around spewing her silliness with cartoon music playing.  These mental exercises, silly as they may sound, have a profound effect on how I feel about her when I'm done; I'm literally reprogramming my brain, modifying bad code."

WOW HeeltoHeal you CRACK me up.  I'm going to do this too!  I like the way you think.

On forgiveness, I also believe it is for us, not them.  Also, forgiving does not = forgetting.  If we do not forgive, there are strong "roots" that can form in our own soul.  It is very toxic to us.

Forgiveness based on the other persons actions (showing remorse, etc.) is conditional - "it's easy to love those who love you" is how the Word portrays it.  Also, if you are a Christian, you can see where it says if we do not forgive others, our Heavenly Father can't forgive us.  Pretty eye opening one there.  I, of course, am STILL having to do this (forgive & release) my exh regularly by conscious decision.  Forgiveness is not a feeling - it's a decision.  Feelings come later. (I know, BOO!)

There is also a scripture that talks about allowing bitterness (that comes with unforgiveness) to take root - that it will spring up and "defile many" - meaning that once it is in you, if you don't release it, it will become a part of your soul/psyche and then spill on to others/in other relationships.  

The Bible talks about all this psychology long before the psych docs ever figured it out.

[lockedout]

In my heart I forgive her but I won't tell her, nor do I want to hear it from her. I won't tell her because it doesn't matter and whatever she says, there is no remorse or empathy. I was with her for 8 years and iirc, she apologized two times and neither times did it sound sincere.

I will never forget. It's better that we part ways and only deal with what we had together... .the kids.

I never want to be with another mentally ill person like her in my life again.

This is about where I am. To me it doesn't make much sense to forgive someone directly who will only ever see themselves as the victim and us as the aggressor. I've forgiven her in the sense that I don't harbor ill-feelings towards her or what happened and I'm concentrating on moving on. I think that's essential to moving on: we can't move on to healthier and more rewarding lives and relationships if we're still angry about what happened in our past.

[fromheeltoheal]

"Then, if some of that rage I've felt towards her since I left peeks it's little head into my world I imagine her pint-sized with a really big head, running around spewing her silliness with cartoon music playing.  These mental exercises, silly as they may sound, have a profound effect on how I feel about her when I'm done; I'm literally reprogramming my brain, modifying bad code."

WOW HeeltoHeal you CRACK me up.  I'm going to do this too!  I like the way you think.

Thanks Lady, and making you laugh was part of the point, although do try it, it really works and will lessen any negative energy you have towards your ex, which is what we're here to do as we learn and grow.

[ScotisGone74]

Forgive?    yes, because carrying around all the angst, feelings of wanting to enact revenge for the emotional torture, tell her just how beyond mean she is for doing some of things she did,  and just wanting to set things right about how she really needs professional treatment ... .too much baggage that weighs down and clutters life, you are much better off letting it go. 

Forget?    Never

[ShadowDancer]

In the forgiving of myself I find that all the bitterness of past just seems to melt away... .like butter in my mouth. Will I forget... .nope! Why? Because over a year out I'm a better man for the life experience. Was it worth it? THAT is an open question and a matter of interpretation. That coin has two sides.

[Perfidy]

If I had been forgiven by her for being imperfect we would have never have parted.  Her behavior with me was unforgiveable. The maneuver here is to forgive myself for allowing this person to treat me bad. Forgive myself. I forgive myself. She is none of my concern.

[Mutt]

In my heart I forgive her but I won't tell her, nor do I want to hear it from her. I won't tell her because it doesn't matter and whatever she says, there is no remorse or empathy. I was with her for 8 years and iirc, she apologized two times and neither times did it sound sincere.

I will never forget. It's better that we part ways and only deal with what we had together... .the kids.

I never want to be with another mentally ill person like her in my life again.

This is about where I am. To me it doesn't make much sense to forgive someone directly who will only ever see themselves as the victim and us as the aggressor. I've forgiven her in the sense that I don't harbor ill-feelings towards her or what happened and I'm concentrating on moving on. I think that's essential to moving on: we can't move on to healthier and more rewarding lives and relationships if we're still angry about what happened in our past.

Anger is a mask for pain. It's a person that I can no longer trust. I feel the same,  there's no point in harbouring ill-wiil.

I feel a deep sadness for my STBX  that she doesn't see what she does and that she's surrounded by enablers. I'll do prayer for her to get help for herself and that's all that I can do. I choose to end the cycle and move on.

[Perfidy]

Indifference is the key. No hard feelings. No ill will. No compassion. No feeling whatsoever for her. I believe this can be achieved without forgiving. Just live good and be good to myself. Let time do its trick. Fade to zero. Forget. Learn the lesson.

[caughtnreleased]

I forgive my ex.  He is mentally ill and I don't think he knows any other way to be.  He will most likely never apologize or show any remorse for any of his bad behavior, because it isn't bad behavior in his eyes.  He is like a little boy.  A very sad little boy.  My expectations of him are slightly below that of my five year old nephew. 

I will never forget.  And I learned some huge, life changing lessons from him for which I am very grateful. 

Exactly! and while there may not be apologies, there most definitely is shame. Sometimes they show it, sometimes they don't.

[Juno]

This is a good question. I think a lot of this depends on each individual. My situation was pretty bad with my ex. There are days when I feel sorry for her, but there are days when I can't bring myself to forgive her. I've written a lot about this in my journal. My ex was/is very sick. She broke a lot of ethics and you can only be sick to show no remorse for what she did. Most of my mental abuse came in the form of letters. This is what I wrote in my journal about that. "I doubt she feels sorry for sending me these letters or holds herself accountable for the things she says. When you send a letter its gone from your possession. There's no record to remind you of what you said and hold you accountable. In time she'll forget she even wrote it. In her world the letters never existed. In my world the letters do exist. I have to live with them and what they represent. If she ever had to read her letters I'm sure it would result in a nervous breakdown because in her world the letters never existed."   

[Turkish]

"Then, if some of that rage I've felt towards her since I left peeks it's little head into my world I imagine her pint-sized with a really big head, running around spewing her silliness with cartoon music playing.  These mental exercises, silly as they may sound, have a profound effect on how I feel about her when I'm done; I'm literally reprogramming my brain, modifying bad code."

WOW HeeltoHeal you CRACK me up.  I'm going to do this too!  I like the way you think.

On forgiveness, I also believe it is for us, not them.  Also, forgiving does not = forgetting.  If we do not forgive, there are strong "roots" that can form in our own soul.  It is very toxic to us.

Forgiveness based on the other persons actions (showing remorse, etc.) is conditional - "it's easy to love those who love you" is how the Word portrays it.  Also, if you are a Christian, you can see where it says if we do not forgive others, our Heavenly Father can't forgive us.  Pretty eye opening one there.  I, of course, am STILL having to do this (forgive & release) my exh regularly by conscious decision.  Forgiveness is not a feeling - it's a decision.  Feelings come later. (I know, BOO!)

There is also a scripture that talks about allowing bitterness (that comes with unforgiveness) to take root - that it will spring up and "defile many" - meaning that once it is in you, if you don't release it, it will become a part of your soul/psyche and then spill on to others/in other relationships.  

The Bible talks about all this psychology long before the psych docs ever figured it out.

I'll take an exception to that. In the Parable of the Unmerciful Servant, the servant refuses to forgive the debt of the debtor that begs for forgiveness. He is later punished by his master who finds out about it, having forgiven the UM for a much larger debt. At the crucifixion, Jesus asks his Father to Forgive his executioners. He doesn't forgive them directly. Only after his death and the subsequent earthquake does the centurion fall down and acknowledge what he took part in. Ditto for the one thief on the cross. They all ask for forgiveness, expressing remorse and repentance. Only the unmerciful servant, who spurns remorse, and refuses to grant mercy, is punished. I certainly pray for my X... .not every night, but I do every night with our children (in a general way, of course, just to bless her and protect her).

[lockedout]

Another thing to take from that parable (unmerciful servant, a favorite of mine) is that he gets his butt tossed in prison after the other servants become outraged and turn him into the master. The lesson to be taught is that by harboring your anger and resentment, you are keeping yourself in a type of prison. We were forgiven and freed when we saw that were were in an out of control situation and resolved to move on and grow. The anger will keep you from getting very far. In the beginning it's a normal, healthy part of the grieving process. Holding onto it will be very harmful over time: you are mentally keeping yourself surrounded by the hurts of that toxic relationship (prison) until you decide to let go of it and not let it make you angry and hurt anymore.

When I first separated, I'd look in the newspaper for things to do (as opposed to drowning in my sorrows in the room I was renting) and ended up going to Celebrate Recovery. It's logistically impossible for me to actually do a step study, but I go to meetings when possible. Below is one of the steps that may answer some of the debate:

Step 9: We made direct amends to such people whenever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift. (Matthew 5:23-24 NIV)

This would apply directly to dealing with someone with BPD. If you try to forgive them, they will consider it very patronizing. If you seek their forgiveness they'll use it against you. You'll just needlessly open wounds that don't need to be opened. Over time, forgiveness is gained by letting go of your anger, hurt, depression, animosity, disdain, or any other negative emotion you have toward this person. I think this is especially important when dealing with kids, especially young ones, which is my case. I have a lot of years ahead of me in which I have to deal with her directly and those negative emotions don't need to trickle down to my 3 year old. Even if without kids the effects of these negative emotions can harm future relationships.

[GreenMango]

There have been many posts on this board by people struggling with the idea of forgiving their BPDex. (Search by keyword or browse my posts). Here's some persuasive data that might help convince you it's in your own best interest to do it:

www.pbs.org/thisemotionallife/topic/forgiveness/understanding-forgiveness

Also check out Soulpancake's YouTube video The Science of Happiness: Forgive and Forget.

Cheers!

The PBS this emotional life has really great topics.  I haven't checked out the YouTube series.  

Also Itunes has the PBS and other postive/constructive podcasts.  Great for accessing on the go. Sometimes just listening to one of these in the mornig really helps and improves my day.

The cool part about these are (if you tried cbt) how we think affects how we feel.  Negative thoughts negative emotions.  Reframing thoughts can be a helpful exercise  to combat those overwhelming negative feelings.

TOOLS: Ease your pain by reframing your thoughts


I

[Turkish]

Another thing to take from that parable (unmerciful servant, a favorite of mine) is that he gets his butt tossed in prison after the other servants become outraged and turn him into the master. The lesson to be taught is that by harboring your anger and resentment, you are keeping yourself in a type of prison. We were forgiven and freed when we saw that were were in an out of control situation and resolved to move on and grow. The anger will keep you from getting very far. In the beginning it's a normal, healthy part of the grieving process. Holding onto it will be very harmful over time: you are mentally keeping yourself surrounded by the hurts of that toxic relationship (prison) until you decide to let go of it and not let it make you angry and hurt anymore.

When I first separated, I'd look in the newspaper for things to do (as opposed to drowning in my sorrows in the room I was renting) and ended up going to Celebrate Recovery. It's logistically impossible for me to actually do a step study, but I go to meetings when possible. Below is one of the steps that may answer some of the debate:

Step 9: We made direct amends to such people whenever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift. (Matthew 5:23-24 NIV)

This would apply directly to dealing with someone with BPD. If you try to forgive them, they will consider it very patronizing. If you seek their forgiveness they'll use it against you. You'll just needlessly open wounds that don't need to be opened. Over time, forgiveness is gained by letting go of your anger, hurt, depression, animosity, disdain, or any other negative emotion you have toward this person. I think this is especially important when dealing with kids, especially young ones, which is my case. I have a lot of years ahead of me in which I have to deal with her directly and those negative emotions don't need to trickle down to my 3 year old. Even if without kids the effects of these negative emotions can harm future relationships.

That is very good insight. And it sounds like you and I are in a similar situation, with my S3 and D1. In my case, I've already seen the devaluation [of males] start to be exhibited towards my son. Most of the time, she loves him to death and shows it. About half the time, she doesn't deal well at all with his tantrums. I need to work carefully to deal with this, especially since I experienced the push/pull paint white/paint black towards myself from my own mother.

I pray, not as much as I should, to show her love. It helps that I have a Christian counselor as well, to remind me to be patient and kind.