Should I contact his T?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

My partner ended our r/s 5 weeks ago and NC since.

Now that I have understanding of what was ACTUALLY going on underneath the behaviors I couldn't understand... .I have been feeling that I want to contact the T he had been seeing. Should I share with the T what I know now and that my experience in our r/s matches up to a lot of BP/NP patterns as a heads-up for her? I've read that so many Ts don't detect BP/NP in people who are high-functioning. I'm NOT wanting to be in HIS business (it's his life from here on, and my caretaking was a problem that got me in that r/s to start with... .) YET ... .isn't it being responsible to share this info if it could potentially be helpful? I just hate to think this cycle will repeat again with other people... .and possibly w/ his children. I know I have no way of knowing IF it would help, but part of me feels I should say what I do know.

Help me see blind spots if I'm missing them here... .

Or if any of you have experience w/ this, how was that for you?

[Discovery]

My partner ended our r/s 5 weeks ago and NC since.

Now that I have understanding of what was ACTUALLY going on underneath the behaviors I couldn't understand... .I have been feeling that I want to contact the T he had been seeing. Should I share with the T what I know now and that my experience in our r/s matches up to a lot of BP/NP patterns as a heads-up for her? I've read that so many Ts don't detect BP/NP in people who are high-functioning. I'm NOT wanting to be in HIS business (it's his life from here on, and my caretaking was a problem that got me in that r/s to start with... .) YET ... .isn't it being responsible to share this info if it could potentially be helpful? I just hate to think this cycle will repeat again with other people... .and possibly w/ his children. I know I have no way of knowing IF it would help, but part of me feels I should say what I do know.

Help me see blind spots if I'm missing them here... .

Or if any of you have experience w/ this, how was that for you?

[Lady31]

I personally would say no.

1) The T is a professional and will at some point see something off.

2) If he stops getting help - all the knowledge in the world doesn't change anything.  So, if he is committed long enough for himself - it will eventually come out.  If he's not committed, it has no effect on the final outcome anyway.

[babyducks]

My first thought is No, contacting his therapist crosses his borders and creates ethical problems with for the therapist. 

The therapist should be able to figure things out, and work towards a healing plan.   That's their job.  Your job is to take care of yourself.

[heartandwhole]

Hi Discovery,

I'd say no as well.  His relationship with his therapist is private and it's his business.  The therapist has been trained to recognize these things.

I agree with babyducks, your job is to focus on yourself and your healing.  He is responsible for his behavior and his healing. 

heart 

[HarmKrakow]

I personally would say no.

1) The T is a professional and will at some point see something off.

2) If he stops getting help - all the knowledge in the world doesn't change anything.  So, if he is committed long enough for himself - it will eventually come out.  If he's not committed, it has no effect on the final outcome anyway.

I say yes, simply because 1) might take a while.

High functioning border-liners are almost impossible to 'catch' outside the relationship as only their intimate partner knows who they truly are.

[numbr3]

I say "NO".

I sought out a therapist that had experience about BPD and worked with them.  On my intake form I had BPD, alcoholic, NPD(?) listed about my H.  We went to counceling about 4 months and he totally had her snowed. It damaged me a lot and she seemed to take his side and minimized any of his behaviours.  "He has some anger issues", "he is such a personable guy and considering his past he is doing great." That is about all I got.  Oh, and maybe Bipolar, than maybe not. That I was driving him away with all my jealousy and insistence that he tell the truth about other relationships.

Over 20 years I dragged him to 5 different therapists.

He never went more than a couple times and not one even scratched the surface.

He did acknowledge that he was an alcoholic but that's about it.

I wish I had never wasted my time or money!

Discovery-the cycle will repeat itself time and time again. be thankful it will not be with you.

[slimmiller]

The therapist has been trained to recognize these things.

In a perfect world, Yes. My experiences with therapists is that they do recognize some of the craziness but several when I asked look at me like I was speaking Greek when I mentioned it. The other one that knew sort of what I was talking about said, 'I will diagnose it and refer them to someone else'  I asked why and she said because we (counselors) will not waste our time with 'them'

BPDs are master manipulators when they dont want to be found out and will hide it like the plague around a professional.

As for telling the therapist, I wanted to tell my exBPD's therapist (who she saw breifly) and she would not discuss anything with me unless my ex was present. Ethically she cant without her present

So while the intentions may be good, its pretty much futile. Even if the therapist finds out by you telling or diagnosing it, the chances are that your partner will then drop the therapist.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Discovery, I understand your motivations but have to concur with those above who say that it is not a good idea.  The bottom line is that you are not the T's patient and the T would be crossing an ethical line, in my view, by receiving any communication from you without first informing your Ex and getting his consent, which presumably would not go over well.  Suggest you rethink.

Lucky Jim

[Juno]

I can understand the urge to contact the "T", but in the end you would be breaking the NC rule. Your ex would probably paint you black if you haven't already been painted black in they're world. IMO the best way to move on is no contact regardless of the situation.

My ex and I ended things 26 years ago. Yet, she still sent letters and msg's to me over the last 26 years. Just recently she sent me a letter to my work. I'm convinced she didn't want to send it to my house because she was afraid my wife would see it. In the letter she just continues to trash me. (long story, but a few months ago I was viewed white in her world) One of the most revealing things in her letter was that her "T" told her that the only mistake she ever made was to have a relationship with me because I was such a loser. My Ex was my high school teacher from 1986. When we dated she was married and is still married today to her current husband. When I received her letter back in March I seriously thought about contacting her. I wanted to give her a piece of my mind. The thought of her "T" condoning a married teacher having inappropriate relationships with a student disgusted me! Yet, that's exactly what her letter suggested. Then I realized it's all bs. She probably never went to a "T" and the whole thing was a ploy to get me so upset that I would contact her.

My advice to you is stay the course. Continue with the NC. If you contact your ex all your doing is giving them what they want, which is feedback. Silence is the biggest fear to these people. They already have huge abandonment issues. Do you truly want to move on with your life? If you do it's probably best to continue with the no contact. I know it's not easy and they will resort to some very ugly behavior, but its best to stay the course and not fall for any of it.

[Discovery]

I personally would say no.

if he is committed long enough for himself - it will eventually come out.  If he's not committed, it has no effect on the final outcome anyway.

Thank you to all of you who shared your thoughts. I really appreciate it.

Upon reflection, the above line stands out for me... .he will heal IF HE thinks there is a problem and if HE wants to, and if HE chooses to do what it takes.

It likely wouldn't help much anyway because the person he was working with is not someone who works with PDs as far as I know... .he did phone sessions with her on looking into the underlying things under the rage episodes (at my request, when I told him I felt scared in the r/s because of these).

BPDs are master manipulators when they dont want to be found out and will hide it like the plague around a professional.

Yes... .and I know how skilled my x is at appearing to be blameless (worked on me, and for a long time), so... .who knows?

What he told me about the sessions he had thus far was that he received validation for "giving too much". Which is true in a sense... .I see that his pattern is to show up as a the super nice, super-giving man, h/e underneath it are many, many unspoken needs and resentments. I was actually excited to hear that he was becoming aware that he could have needs and thought the next logical thing would be that he'd share them with me! so I could listen and be responsive, examine my behavior, show him that his well-being mattered as much as mine to me... .

However, this never translated into an ability to share or express his disatisfactions/needs with me (even when invited to by me in the gentlest of ways, or in our couples counselling, which tanked... .he had committed to 12 sessions, but stopped after 4).

I sought out a therapist that had experience about BPD and worked with them.  On my intake form I had BPD, alcoholic, NPD(?) listed about my H.  We went to counceling about 4 months and he totally had her snowed. It damaged me a lot and she seemed to take his side and minimized any of his behaviours.

Good to know... .to counter my presumption that sharing what I've experienced *would* necessarily help.

----

When the B/W thinking kicked in and devaluation started, suddenly he revisited in his mind many things he'd done in the r/s (I thought, out of genuine love, and which FELT genuine to me at the time) were now re-tagged in his mind as obligations, resented obligations, proof of how he was the giver and never got (soo untrue) and he pulled the cord without specifically voicing any of them, just took off and expressed that he was "unhappy."

Not contacting his T also goes back to me stopping thinking I can HELP him (a hard pattern to let go of, clearly). And to me stopping thinking I'm in charge of fixing everything in my world that appears to be not working (or that I'm the right person to do so). 

Reading some of the posts of people who are still in r/s w their SO and who after realizing BPD and other dysfunctional patterns (for both people) are happening... .are able to repair their r/s... . I feel sad that I didn't know what I know now... .feel that w/ that understanding, we might have been able to work through it... .There is/was so much I love about him.He is high-functioning and we didn't have super-crazy destructive behaviors to deal with, mostly all communication impasses (due to the B/W thinking and passive-aggressive behaviors), avoiding and distancing when there were any conflicts and some rage episodes. *Sigh* Of course, whether it *could* have worked out is all speculation... .maybe, maybe not. (The maybe yes is a place I get stuck... .)

If any of you are familiar with Byron Katie's "The Work" process... .she distinguishes between:

1. My business

2. Other people's business

3. God's (the Universe's) business

My challenge in this is learning how to discern whose business I am in. In this case, I obviously need to realize that my former partner's life and healing or not is the Universe's business, not mine. If, how and when it happens is not for me to know or orchestrate.

Now... .to stay clear about that and learn what  I need to learn from this very painful cracking open... .Very thankful for this place to share and learn... .

[HarmKrakow]

Discovery, ask yourself, why would someone like a high functioning borderliner seek help?

High functioning BPDers are clever, witty and successful and it's not difficult to find another partner. They have zero incentive to find a T because every time they feel depressed they run to another partner.

In my opinion high functioning BPDers are the true psychopaths of the world

[slimmiller]

Discovery, ask yourself, why would someone like a high functioning borderliner seek help?

High functioning BPDers are clever, witty and successful and it's not difficult to find another partner. They have zero incentive to find a T because every time they feel depressed they run to another partner.

In my opinion high functioning BPDers are the true psychopaths of the world

With the current infactuation in the world with 'zombies' and all the 'walking dead', sometimes I think they are already among us. They are masquerading behind the mask of BPD ... .  Just a thought because sometime my ex really honestly takes on a persona of being possessed. I m not trying to imply a theological argument, (I have read the Bible extensively) just a thought

[Juno]

Slimmiller,

Mine was completely messed up. I'm sure she was processed. I am almost certain something bad happened to her as a child. There is no way she could to the things she did without some type of trigger. It defies all logic of why she would take so many risks with so much to lose. I'm sure there are many nightmares locked into her head. Its frightening how someone can put on a mask and pretend to be normal.

[Surnia]

Hi guys,

please let us go back to the original question about contacting partner's T.

I second heartandwhole  and others here:

I'd say no as well.  His relationship with his therapist is private and it's his business.  The therapist has been trained to recognize these things.

I agree with babyducks, your job is to focus on yourself and your healing.  He is responsible for his behavior and his healing. 

[Turkish]

I personally would say no.

1) The T is a professional and will at some point see something off.

2) If he stops getting help - all the knowledge in the world doesn't change anything.  So, if he is committed long enough for himself - it will eventually come out.  If he's not committed, it has no effect on the final outcome anyway.

I say yes, simply because 1) might take a while.

High functioning border-liners are almost impossible to 'catch' outside the relationship as only their intimate partner knows who they truly are.

I don't know about yes or no, but Harm is right. This is the case with mine. She's been seeing hers on and off for a few years, and was only diagnosed with Depression (correct), but nothing else. Since I and the X belong to the same insurer, I offered to have a session or two with hers, but she was non-committal about it. The only way this will proceed is if she is hospitalized for a suicide attempt in which case I will talk to the psychiatrist and let them know my theory. There is some chance of that happening later one when my X leaves the house finally, and she is no longer under the safety of my house (and me). My presence and the stability of our home provide her emotional support still.

All in all, I'd say no... .things often need to get worse before they get better. If they are our Xes, then they are on their own.

[TwoCents]

The therapist will most likely find it highly irregular that you are contacting them directly, which would give your ex more ammunition during therapy to explain how you are a control freak and overbearing and how that was the whole problem with the relationship.  So you will have inadvertently given your ex a convenient smokescreen to hide the failed relationship behind during therapy.  For your ex (or anyone) to begin fixing a problem, they have to recognize it and want to change, not have others point it out to them and ask them to change.

[frag1911]

NO!  Big NO!

You would be violating their privacy and set yourself up for retribution and a stalking accusation.  Let it go, as others have said.  If the T is any good, they will see it. 

[Lucky Jim]

Well said, TwoCents:

For your ex (or anyone) to begin fixing a problem, they have to recognize it and want to change, not have others point it out to them and ask them to change.

Can't say that I ever reached that point, though, in a 16-year marriage to a pwBPD!

Lucky Jim

[LaSuede]

To answer, from my point if view, more questions need to be raised... :

Have you met with the T? I mean have you any own relationship with the T?

Is anyone in danger, and could a contact with the T avoid that?

You? Or any kids?

Do you have  kids together?

Does he have kids of his own?

If so do you have a close or open relationship with them?

Has the T "interferred" in any legal matter or such... ?

Are you sure the T has not acknowledged?

When my pwBPDexbf finally went (to another country) I contacted a former T of his.

I wanted to know if he had tips for ME healing from co-dependency, with DBT as therapy form - as he is working with that and it's not that common in my country.

1. We had met all together once, which ended with my ex calling me the C and B words and the T had to stop the meeting... .

2. When my ex had started with drugs again I finally kicked him out of the house and I wanted to A) seek for own custody for our kid or B) make him be open with his drug abuse to the social services. This since there was already one record on his addiction and violence, after a serious suicidal attempt - and if I was not acting I could have been questioned as a parent. Or more it was my way to fully protect the kids. First my ex wanted to sign the papers, but he was confused at the time, high, paranoid etceteras - and I did not want to do anything immoral, so I suggested him to talk to his T. The T could not fully understand so my ex asked him to contact me to get everything straight.

So he did.

It after some research and debriefing for the T (with his mentors/colleges) ended with that he encouraged my ex to go for the honesty-step and sign no paper. His motivation was that our son was a motivation for my ex to stop drugs and since he was my exes T, he had to put my exes matters first. Even in front of the kids matters... .

This has caused both good contacts with social service, alone for me and together, more hope raised and at last more pain, cause now my ex has left for another country kicked in with drugs and sex addiction fully, meanwhile playing with the custody part... .Control me there. He has still half custody... .

3. When my ex got the diagnose BPD with 99% certainty from clinical and interview studies (still need 6 meetings with pshycologue for 100%) he told me, "strange the therapy I found for myself is one of the few working for BPD... ." And his T had once told him, "you seem to be a pwBPD".

So when I was seeking everything to understand the situation - as it had finally turned out - and grasp what to do for ME and the kids I called my ex T.

Did he/the T have any idea how to move forward?

Of course I said he had to think about me even calling due to him have been my ex T.

The at came back and said "if I can get an okey from the ex, we can talk".

I said "no for sure, this was not about him, but about me and the kids and since that would for sure cause more trouble its a non-no".

We agreed on the T giving me suggestion for other T's for me. And him being there for my ex if he ever decided to return... .

Also I could in a diplomatic way make him/the T understand that his advice, not for me to get full custody that time almost a year ago, had put the kids in an unhealthy game. It felt important to get that out in the air. In hope for him never to take that path again.

So to put it shortly:

if contacting the T could help you or anyone else close to you, my answer is yes.

If contacting the T to "control" your ex or any unknown future of his or any unknown relations if his, my answer is no.

All my thoughts and strength for you.

[Cmjo]

I might be one of the only Yes votes, but absolutely only if he gives you his consent.

I am having the same dilemma. when I left a year ago I found maybe the only specialist clinic for personality disorders in this country (not the US!). I saw a doctor there. I asked him to go. I believe he went once but not again.

Now after a year of abuse for my having "abandoned him like a dog and destroyed the family" he is pleading for me to go back, as he is now seeing a psychologist once a week. He plays the family card, the children need us together, he doesnt want to go on holiday by himself etc, he doesnt want to live alone in the big house. 

He said "she says I'm not bipolar" but I do have a short memory. i said but about two years ago we agreed that it was probably not bipolar, but that I had said when I left that I thought he was borderline. Not sure if he just wasnt listening, or had forgot, or was pretending he had forgotten... .

So I asked if I could haveher number and he gave it to me.  I havent rung yet but I will. What do I hope to achieve? Absolutely nothing... .but I will just say three things, he is a lovely man but has problems that are too big for me to handle and caused a terrible level of conflict between us, that I believed it could be BPD and tha I had asked him to go for treatment, and that he had changed since his previous doctor put him on lots of meds, in fact worsened and I think these should be completely reassesed as they are adding to the problem not helping.

Talking to her I need to say how hurt and sad I am but that I dont feel it is possible for us to get back together... .I find it so hard to say it to him directly anymore, he wont take it in and wont let me go. Maybe his therapist can help make it sink in... .

Does anyone agree? I suspect maybe not... .

[Turkish]

I might be one of the only Yes votes, but absolutely only if he gives you his consent.

He said "she says I'm not bipolar" but I do have a short memory. i said but about two years ago we agreed that it was probably not bipolar, but that I had said when I left that I thought he was borderline. Not sure if he just wasnt listening, or had forgot, or was pretending he had forgotten... .

So I asked if I could haveher number and he gave it to me.  I havent rung yet but I will. What do I hope to achieve? Absolutely nothing... .but I will just say three things, he is a lovely man but has problems that are too big for me to handle and caused a terrible level of conflict between us, that I believed it could be BPD and tha I had asked him to go for treatment, and that he had changed since his previous doctor put him on lots of meds, in fact worsened and I think these should be completely reassesed as they are adding to the problem not helping.

Talking to her I need to say how hurt and sad I am but that I dont feel it is possible for us to get back together... .I find it so hard to say it to him directly anymore, he wont take it in and wont let me go. Maybe his therapist can help make it sink in... .

Does anyone agree? I suspect maybe not... .

No. This is where I am. Only if she gives me permission to contact her T, after getting the go ahead from her T. Meaning, only if she and her T mutually agree that it might be beneficial. My X doesn't trust men (amazing that I missed this all of these years when it explains so much!), but her T is a woman. I have no problem with women, and have always related to them very well from a young age. Until my stbBPDx told me the opposite :^(

[LaSuede]

Cmjo

I would say half yes, half no... .

Yes, call to clear things out, about bipolar etc, since ok from your ex to have number and do so. No, if getting help getting your own message thru, that's not the job of your ex T I believe... .

That's only my opinion of course. And I am not a professional!

The things you tell is reminding of my ex half a year ago though... .

I wish you all the best.

[HarmKrakow]

The therapist will most likely find it highly irregular that you are contacting them directly, which would give your ex more ammunition during therapy to explain how you are a control freak and overbearing and how that was the whole problem with the relationship.  So you will have inadvertently given your ex a convenient smokescreen to hide the failed relationship behind during therapy.  For your ex (or anyone) to begin fixing a problem, they have to recognize it and want to change, not have others point it out to them and ask them to change.

Haa! I'd think you'd do the therapist a favor by telling you are suspecting high-functioning borderline personality disorder :D. BPD, and especially the high-functioning ones are incredibly difficult to detect. Many therapists have actually rejected therapy for some BPD patients as they were 'to crazy'.

A therapist is nothing else than a normal person who is just a bit more educated in this field than we are. There is no harm in pointing out suspicion of high-functioning BPD. You'd have one crazy therapist who would join in the defense of the 'suspected' BPD person who he only diagnosed with a mild depression.

Low-functioning BPDers are on the other hands easy to spot.

[HarmKrakow]

I'm only saying yes on the statement of Discovery that a high-functioning aspect is suspected.

If any other scenario, i'd say no. A therapist would have find that out by himself.