De-escalating fights when you can't physically walk away

[nomoremommyfood]

I haven't written on here in a while, despite ongoing insanity with my dBPDbf of 7 years. Returning to the boards is like admitting things are miserable and I hate that admission.

I've got one foot out the door of the "Staying" Board, but a hard time getting him out the literal door when fights start escalating. Obviously, the most successful method of damage-control has historically been physically walking away. But, since we don't live together, this can only be employed at his apartment or in public. What can I do when I need him to leave and he refuses?

When we fight at my apartment, he won't go when I ask him to leave. I've been trying to wait it out stone-faced, but he gets so demeaning, I feel like I'm in a Lifetime mini-series. Putting on my shoes to personally leave has prompted him to storm out but, last time, he threatened to stay until my roommate got home to smear her face in dog feces. Now, I'm too scared to chance leaving him alone in my apartment but can't hold up to his verbal assaults, either.

On a bright note, I've started going to therapy, though it's never made a difference. Today was the first time I've seen a doctor do a double-take when I recounted being told to "go kill yourself and make both of our lives easier." Which is horrific enough to be funny, in retrospect. Or horrifically depressing, depending on your perspective.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Theo41]

Thats very hard to cope with .I have a similar situation in that my uBPDw does not want to let me leave. In the past she has hidden my keys, stood in front of the door , placed herself face down on the hood of my car, and chased me through the   neighborhood barefooted:)! Writing it now I can't believe she did all that but she did! And she is a high functioning highly educated woman who , on a sane day, really loves me a lot.

What seems to have worked for me is to have repeatedly made the point with her ,when things are not totally disregulated, this is abusive and not respectful of my rights as a human being. I have also learned on this site to validate her feelings and tell her exactly when I will be back. (they fear abandonment.) With that she has given up and let me go out. I have made a point of coming back on time. I hope you can find something in there that will enable you to not have him in your place when you don't want him there. It's not only your legal right but moral as well.

[waverider]

Have you ever threatened to call the cops?

[nomoremommyfood]

I have threatened to call the cops but don't like to bring it out unless absolute last resort. He's afraid of police, I learned six years ago when he grappled a phone from my hands. I've never gone through with it because a.) I'm sure his retaliation against me will be unbearable, b.) I'm holding onto the 911 card for suicide threats. Further, my roommate flipped when I offered to call the police if he gets out of control in the future (he broke her dresser and is close to getting us both kicked out) as she doesn't want police at out house. Though I'm surprised the neighbors haven't reported possible domestic dispute... .yet.

He formerly agreed with "walking away is the best policy" until recently, coinciding with an upswing in "pull-in" behavior during happy times. His new thing is screaming "if you walk away, it's over." This has actually transformed non-serious fights into week-long battles. The "it's over" threat consistently works on me... .which is probably why he uses it all. the. time. 

[nomoremommyfood]

Actually, I just came across this thread, which proved really helpful:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=202729.20

I don't want to bump up an old thread, but the comments were really helpful. I find it virtually impossible to avoid JADEing. I love (non-heated debates), proving points with evidence, and logical persuasion. I loathe silently fuming in the face of overt logical fallacies. Acting like a doormat incites more disturbing verbal abuse than fighting back.

I've tried going into another room to buy time, but return to freshly-culled insults. I'm now thinking of making it 100% clear that I'm leaving to calm down - not ignore a problem - then allowing sufficient time to relax enough to adopt the low-octave "calm" voice. When unable to end the fight, the "calm voice" can (sometimes) defuse it. Aside from that, I got nothin'.

[allibaba]

Hey there,

I remember that old thread. 

So my basic premise is that -- he can't have a fight if I don't participate.  Of course, he's going to do everything to pull me in.  I am an adult though and my boundaries are my boundaries whether he likes it or not.

My husband waited until I was walking out the door this morning for work to bring up something. 

He wanted to start a fight and used perfect - I feel like X statements to do it.  He wanted to pull me into JADE and then we could really get into it.  I didn't -- I validated and told him it was time for me to go to work... .and perhaps we could discuss this issue tonight when I got home.  He got mad.  I don't care.  He should know not to bring this stuff up as I am walking out the door.  Being on time for work is important.

What Grey Kitty/ waverider taught me is that it doesn't matter what's going on or what emotional strings get pulled, I have the right to disengage.

ABUSE---> BOUNDARIES

DEMANDS---> DISENGAGE

I don't have to have an excuse.  All I have to say is that 'this conversation is over for the time being because <BLANK>'  <BLANK> could be 'I don't feel like it, I'm too tired, I'm too worked up etc etc.  You get it

[briefcase]

I love (non-heated debates), proving points with evidence, and logical persuasion. I loathe silently fuming in the face of overt logical fallacies.

I like a good, friendly debate too.  I was raised in a house where they were encouraged.  The problem is that a friendly debate with my wife can quickly become an emotional contact sport, which isn't so much fun.  I save my debates now for my brother and father.  

As far as the JADEing goes, no one wants you to be a doormat.  The problem is that justifying and arguing just doesn't work.  It's ineffective and doesn't get you the results you want.  It's hard for us "friendly debaters" to accept this fact.  But its a fact we need to face.  

Silently fuming isn't healthy either, it leads to resentment and depression.  I've been there too.  For me, the solution was a little bit of loving detachment.  Stepping back and realizing we're two different people, and that's OK.  It's fine for us to have different beliefs, opinions, likes and perspectives. I've had to learn to accept that we won't see eye to eye on a lot of things - even facts.

Now, instead of arguing about things, I can step back and allow her to hold her own beliefs.  Sure, sometimes its disappointing, but it's a lot healthier than arguing over everything we disagree about.  Learning about boundaries and codependence helped with this quite a lot.  

Oh, and you might want to spend more time at his place, and less time at your place so you can leave when you need to.     

[waverider]

Using logic to try and defuse illogical behavior simply wont work. Its two different languages.

Its like raising you voice and speaking slowly to someone because they don't speak your language in a futile attempt to be understood.

[Chosen]

So my basic premise is that -- he can't have a fight if I don't participate.  Of course, he's going to do everything to pull me in.  I am an adult though and my boundaries are my boundaries whether he likes it or not.

It's not as easy as it sounds, but allibaba is right, and I have tried this, and it works, so I'm going to recommend it to you anyway. 

I live in a small apartment, I am not friends with my neighbours, so when things got worse it would be terrible, and most of the times I cannot physically leave.  Besides, leaving would trigger the abandonment fears in my H, and he would panic and things will go downhill.

But we don't have to engage, and we don't have to take abuse.

At that moment, you may have to mentally detach yourself.  Say you bumped into somebody on the street.  You don't know them, but they start swearing at you and pointing their finger at you.  You can either fight back which probably makes you seem rude to onlookers who didn't know what happened, or you can either walk away, or in situations which you can't (say you're in a crowded train compartment), you just don't respond to anything.  Yes your bf will do anything to get you involved in the fight so he can lash out at you, and best if you say something wrong, but ultimately he wants to express himself (albeit in a wrong way), and if you just shut down then he doesn’t get to do that.

So eventually, maybe not once, twice, maybe half a dozen times later, he will start trying new methods to get you to engage.  Make sure you do engage with him when he expresses himself in a healthy manner, so as to reinforce that behavior.

Take care.